I like Holiday, but he is turnover prone and his shot fluctuates.
Tyreke Evans has a low bball iq to me. Great sixth man, but is he worth the contract price? It's only 6 games, so I'm probably judging too soon. That goes for Holiday as well.
I'm not big on Holiday or Evans either. However you can't deny they have a lot of talent and assets in Davis, Holiday, Gordon and Evans. They can easily move any of those guys and Davis is probably the guy they build around the next 7 years.
For us we have to start looking at a realistic way at replacing what Kobe brings. Right now we're getting a glimpse of what the future will be like if we don't get some franchise talent soon. I don't thin Melo or any FA in 2014 can be that. It has to happen via the draft.
I agree. They have assets and are exciting. Davis is definitely the man. I love it when I see #1 draft picks with hype become stars, and I think he is becoming the cream of the crop. I think he's the best #1 draft pick since Lebron. They're going to need to trade Rivers eventually, and figure out what to do with Jrue, Gordon, and Tyreke...One of those three must go eventually imo.
I think their real problem is coaching.
Haven't seen enough of him this year, but based on his last season's performance I'd have to disagree. That young stud guard in Cleveland, Kyrie Irving, would easily be my pick.
Joined: 22 Apr 2001 Posts: 1677 Location: Cerritos, California
Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:50 am Post subject:
Dwarf Nebula wrote:
Corey78 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Quote:
I like Holiday, but he is turnover prone and his shot fluctuates.
Tyreke Evans has a low bball iq to me. Great sixth man, but is he worth the contract price? It's only 6 games, so I'm probably judging too soon. That goes for Holiday as well.
I'm not big on Holiday or Evans either. However you can't deny they have a lot of talent and assets in Davis, Holiday, Gordon and Evans. They can easily move any of those guys and Davis is probably the guy they build around the next 7 years.
For us we have to start looking at a realistic way at replacing what Kobe brings. Right now we're getting a glimpse of what the future will be like if we don't get some franchise talent soon. I don't thin Melo or any FA in 2014 can be that. It has to happen via the draft.
I agree. They have assets and are exciting. Davis is definitely the man. I love it when I see #1 draft picks with hype become stars, and I think he is becoming the cream of the crop. I think he's the best #1 draft pick since Lebron. They're going to need to trade Rivers eventually, and figure out what to do with Jrue, Gordon, and Tyreke...One of those three must go eventually imo.
I think their real problem is coaching.
Haven't seen enough of him this year, but based on his last season's performance I'd have to disagree. That young stud guard in Cleveland, Kyrie Irving, would easily be my pick.
To each his or her own. I value bigs more than smalls. Davis didn't play much his first year (Coach held him back alot coupled with injuries). Nevertheless, Davis has great defensive impact and his offense will only get better.
I think Kyrie is flashy, but he does not have tools to be a very good defender. Also, he seems like more of a scoring point guard than a pure-get everyone involved pointguard.
I think Kyrie may look more exciting, but ultimately impact the game less than Davis.
You tank THIS YEAR because this is the year the Lakers aren't making any noise in the postseason anyway. Even when Kobe comes back, he won't be 100%. Nique said it took him a full year to feel like himself again. It'll probably be that way for Kobe, who won't be in the top condition to which he's accustomed. Then he's here for what, 2-3 more years maybe? Can't tank those seasons. So, no, the Lakers can't tank any year. It's this year or it's 4-5 years from now.
Really tired of people citing the Spurs like it's a comparable situation. The Spurs managed their team much differently (*cough* better *cough*) than we did over Duncan's and Kobe's careers. The Spurs managed their cap space while retaining their draft picks, giving them the flexibility in both finances and assets (a near constant influx of blue chip talent, usually stashed overseas) to draft the Parkers/Ginobilis/Tiagos/Scolas/Dragics and trade for the Kawhi's and Stephan Jacksons.
The Lakers, on the other hand, have had no such fortune. Their stars do not give hometown discounts (whether they should or not is beside the point). Their draft picks are given away to get under the cap. They round their rosters out with aging vet ring chasers and D-leaguers nobody has ever of, nor should ever have had to hear of. Everybody blamed D'Antoni while we were getting blown out of round 1 last year, but that blow-out was a decade plus in the making.
The Spurs cruised into the postseason fully healthy because their stars only have to play 30 mpg thanks to a deep/young bench, thanks to never trading first rounders, thanks to the stars giving up money to play for a more competitive team. The Lakers barely eked into the playoffs after their star player snapped his achilles because his team couldn't afford a decent enough bench with young legs required to survived an 82-game season. That's what happens when you spend your whole cap on 3-4 guys. Every once in a while, you end up having to give Andrew Goudelock major playoff minutes.
What message are you sending to top free agents by tanking? I don't know. What "message" did Boston send when they tried tanking for Durant/Oden? Whatever it was, it didn't seem to dissuade KG or Ray Allen none. It's moot anyway because "top free agents" aren't coming here next year. Lebron is not leaving Miami to come to this situation. And if this season teaches Melo anything (and it certainly won't be how to defend, create for his teammates, or stay in better shape), it'll be that he has to play on a more talented team. This Laker team ain't it. Nevermind all the millions he'd have to give up to come to a team that's barely more talented than the one he's on.
Players don't care about "messages" or "the brand" anymore. It's money + talent. The Clippers sent the worst "message" any team could for the last two decades and yet they're the hotter team right now. It's all about the best combination of dollars and help. KG was very anti-Boston until he found out Ray would be going there, too. That's when he waived his no-trade agreement. Pierce + Ray. Didn't care about the "message" Boston sent. Kobe is not enough to get Lebron or Melo to come here.
But Kobe + a hyped up draft pick or, ya know, whatever disgruntled all-star on another team could be acquired for that draft pick, much like Ray Allen was acquired for Boston's pick--might be. HMMMMMM
The Lakers are actually more likely to attract a "top free agent" next year by tanking than by breaking their necks to be 1st round cannon fodder. If they can get a high enough pick in this year's draft, you might be able to use that pick to get Kevin Love, Rondo (not wild about him at this point, but that's an example), or who knows. You get one of those guys, and THEN maybe Melo or Lebron takes a long look at this team.
I'm sure New Orleans are really sad they tanked these last 2 years once they dealt Paul.
They've only wound up with franchise talent in Anthony Davis. All-Star caliber PG in Holiday. Oh and that Tyreke Evans as a 6th man.
If the Hornets didn't mess up with the Rivers pick, they'd be set as is. Instead they are a player away from being really, really good soon.
A top 5 pick in this draft could mean 5 guys with the franchise changing talent like Anthony Davis (Note not AD clones, but 5 guys who can be FP's). If there was a year to be really bad, it was 2003. And now in 2014.
They traded their 2014 pick to Philly with noels for Holiday.
Yep and they wouldn't have had Noel, or that pick to draft Noel, without tanking last year. If you do it right, you can within 1-2 years develop a very good foundation for a long time. The Lakers have always been lucky or been able to get that franchise player without needing to tank. Kobe was that guy in 1996, but that was 17 years ago. We are seeing right now what the team is like without a franchise player. Kobe may play a few more years, but if we could get a head start on getting that next franchise player, it would be outstanding. Especially in a year where we all know we aren't winning the NBA title.
We don't need a "head start" on anything. There is absolutely no difference between tanking right now or tanking in the future. There are always going to be really good to great players that you can tank for. You want to tank because you really want one of these hyped of players coming out next season, it's not about getting a head start. A head start on what exactly? Rebuilding? You're talking about enjoying the last few year's of Kobe but rebuilding at the same time?
No it wouldn't be outstanding, it would be trashy. The Lakers aren't a trash franchise, and we don't waste the last years of players like Kobe being trash. The lack of patience is astounding. As if this is the only year we could ever tank to get a top draft pick. After this year there is no way to ever tank and get a top pick, it MUST be this year. It MUST happen right now or else the franchise will collapse and never win a title.
People always want to bring up the Spurs getting Duncan by tanking, but what they don't want to mention is the fact that the Spurs were in a similar situation a few seasons ago, rebuilt their team through free agency and trades and have been a perennial title contender for the past 3 years, and should have won the title last season.
We have a very good chance of doing the same thing. What is the lesson in all this? You don't tank when you don't need to. You don't tank when Kobe is still on the team and you have a chance to build a title contender, we're not even that far off.
New Orleans, really? Talk to me when they actually make a WCF, or even make the playoffs.
Will we win it this season? Maybe not, but what messages are you going to be sending to not only Kobe but also top free agents that want to sign here? Come play for us, we just tanked a season, and in the future if we see a player we really like in the draft, we'll tank that season too, regardless of what you want or how good of a player you still are. We're going to intentionally sabotage your chances of winning because we simply don't think you can do it anymore.
It's trashy and doesn't need to be done unless you have no other options.
I have to say I completely disagree.
You seem so sure that we can build a title contender around Kobe. Honestly, I'm not so sure of that. I wish I could be. But his window is really max if not next year the following year. I don't think Kobe is going to play longer than 3+ seasons. He's played 17+ years. 53,000+ minutes.
I do think if you are going to build a team in Los Angeles that's going to be a championship contender. It's going to require 3 bananas and a really solid player with them.
One Banana - Kobe (Doesn't play defense anymore. So need some type of perimeter defender)
One Banana - Melo(assuming you get him) (You need a top 10 player)
One Banana - Another Max FA (Ideally Lebron probably not so you need someone else)
Now to hit a couple of your points, you said tell me the last time New Orleans made the WCF. I could tell you it's been a long time. But, I'm also willing to tell you that they're much more better positioned for the future then we are.
What was is not what is. There are not stupid GM's running around in the league anymore (for the most part). The new CBA is not going to let you outspend everyone for a title.
The way to get there is through the draft because it require someone to be underpaid.
Look at the Pacers for example. Paul George is set for an extension next year but this year he's making 3.282 Million. That is the definition of underpaid. Can you imagine if you had this kind of franchise talent with Kobe and then 2 Max Free Agents.
In terms of Kobe and FA's I would break it down to them simply. Mike D'antoni isn't going to bring you a title. That team wasn't going to bring you a title. Kobe "You're coming off an Injury" Rather than risk any chance of you getting hurt or gutting out this season.
I'd rather get you 2 Franchise talents in this offseason and a Franchise talent whose severely underpaid because he's young so you can get a title and that 6th ring.
Because that sure looks like a better route to winning a championship then pretending this team is going to get close to one. Especially since it can't play a lick of defense.
And No you can't tank every year. Sure there are some franchise talents. But Kobe, Lebron, Jordan don't come every year. They come once a decade. This draft is that once a decade draft. The same way people still talk about 2003 is the way they'll talk about this draft.
Watch out for Aaron Gordon. No one is talking about him and honestly I haven't seen enough of Wiggins and Parker to compare.
But I have seen Gordon and I am telling you....this guy is going to be a stud in the NBA. Remember who told you first.
Next Blake Griffin.
Funny you say that, that was the exact comparison I was going to make.
I am very high on Aaron Gordon and I don't normally hype young players....I am confident he will be able to make the jump in competition at each level. In fact, I think he will dominate even in the pros. _________________ Love, Laker Lanny
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:07 am Post subject:
LakerLanny wrote:
lakersfan22 wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
Watch out for Aaron Gordon. No one is talking about him and honestly I haven't seen enough of Wiggins and Parker to compare.
But I have seen Gordon and I am telling you....this guy is going to be a stud in the NBA. Remember who told you first.
Next Blake Griffin.
Funny you say that, that was the exact comparison I was going to make.
I am very high on Aaron Gordon and I don't normally hype young players....I am confident he will be able to make the jump in competition at each level. In fact, I think he will dominate even in the pros.
He's in my top 5.
Wiggins
Randle
Parker
Exum
Gordon
There are strong centers and stud role players to be had in the draft later in the first round as well. I'm unclear as to how deep the draft is. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
There are strong centers and stud role players to be had in the draft later in the first round as well. I'm unclear as to how deep the draft is.
I am really looking forward to your player breakdowns and draft analysis as the year goes on. It is always a good read, but this appears to be an all time draft, maybe one of the best of the modern era?
You have a lot of work ahead of you my friend! _________________ Love, Laker Lanny
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:27 am Post subject:
LakerLanny wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
He's in my top 5.
Wiggins
Randle
Parker
Exum
Gordon
There are strong centers and stud role players to be had in the draft later in the first round as well. I'm unclear as to how deep the draft is.
I am really looking forward to your player breakdowns and draft analysis as the year goes on. It is always a good read, but this appears to be an all time draft, maybe one of the best of the modern era?
You have a lot of work ahead of you my friend!
Lucky for you I've been watching the past 1-2 years. I'm familiar with the lottery picks for sure. It's the mid to late 1st rounders and trying to find the nuggets that make it more challenging and interesting.
I have a partner in crime this year and I get to show him some ropes. I'll keep people updated. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
You tank THIS YEAR because this is the year the Lakers aren't making any noise in the postseason anyway. Even when Kobe comes back, he won't be 100%. Nique said it took him a full year to feel like himself again. It'll probably be that way for Kobe, who won't be in the top condition to which he's accustomed. Then he's here for what, 2-3 more years maybe? Can't tank those seasons. So, no, the Lakers can't tank any year. It's this year or it's 4-5 years from now.
Really tired of people citing the Spurs like it's a comparable situation. The Spurs managed their team much differently (*cough* better *cough*) than we did over Duncan's and Kobe's careers. The Spurs managed their cap space while retaining their draft picks, giving them the flexibility in both finances and assets (a near constant influx of blue chip talent, usually stashed overseas) to draft the Parkers/Ginobilis/Tiagos/Scolas/Dragics and trade for the Kawhi's and Stephan Jacksons.
The Lakers, on the other hand, have had no such fortune. Their stars do not give hometown discounts (whether they should or not is beside the point). Their draft picks are given away to get under the cap. They round their rosters out with aging vet ring chasers and D-leaguers nobody has ever of, nor should ever have had to hear of. Everybody blamed D'Antoni while we were getting blown out of round 1 last year, but that blow-out was a decade plus in the making.
The Spurs cruised into the postseason fully healthy because their stars only have to play 30 mpg thanks to a deep/young bench, thanks to never trading first rounders, thanks to the stars giving up money to play for a more competitive team. The Lakers barely eked into the playoffs after their star player snapped his achilles because his team couldn't afford a decent enough bench with young legs required to survived an 82-game season. That's what happens when you spend your whole cap on 3-4 guys. Every once in a while, you end up having to give Andrew Goudelock major playoff minutes.
What message are you sending to top free agents by tanking? I don't know. What "message" did Boston send when they tried tanking for Durant/Oden? Whatever it was, it didn't seem to dissuade KG or Ray Allen none. It's moot anyway because "top free agents" aren't coming here next year. Lebron is not leaving Miami to come to this situation. And if this season teaches Melo anything (and it certainly won't be how to defend, create for his teammates, or stay in better shape), it'll be that he has to play on a more talented team. This Laker team ain't it. Nevermind all the millions he'd have to give up to come to a team that's barely more talented than the one he's on.
Players don't care about "messages" or "the brand" anymore. It's money + talent. The Clippers sent the worst "message" any team could for the last two decades and yet they're the hotter team right now. It's all about the best combination of dollars and help. KG was very anti-Boston until he found out Ray would be going there, too. That's when he waived his no-trade agreement. Pierce + Ray. Didn't care about the "message" Boston sent. Kobe is not enough to get Lebron or Melo to come here.
But Kobe + a hyped up draft pick or, ya know, whatever disgruntled all-star on another team could be acquired for that draft pick, much like Ray Allen was acquired for Boston's pick--might be. HMMMMMM
The Lakers are actually more likely to attract a "top free agent" next year by tanking than by breaking their necks to be 1st round cannon fodder. If they can get a high enough pick in this year's draft, you might be able to use that pick to get Kevin Love, Rondo (not wild about him at this point, but that's an example), or who knows. You get one of those guys, and THEN maybe Melo or Lebron takes a long look at this team.
+10000!!!
This sums up my take on it exactly!! Well said!!!
+ 10000000!!!!
But people rather retain some useless old fashion pride.
Joined: 03 Aug 2008 Posts: 2758 Location: Nothern Cali
Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:10 am Post subject:
Yong wrote:
SmokeAndAshes wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
You tank THIS YEAR because this is the year the Lakers aren't making any noise in the postseason anyway. Even when Kobe comes back, he won't be 100%. Nique said it took him a full year to feel like himself again. It'll probably be that way for Kobe, who won't be in the top condition to which he's accustomed. Then he's here for what, 2-3 more years maybe? Can't tank those seasons. So, no, the Lakers can't tank any year. It's this year or it's 4-5 years from now.
Really tired of people citing the Spurs like it's a comparable situation. The Spurs managed their team much differently (*cough* better *cough*) than we did over Duncan's and Kobe's careers. The Spurs managed their cap space while retaining their draft picks, giving them the flexibility in both finances and assets (a near constant influx of blue chip talent, usually stashed overseas) to draft the Parkers/Ginobilis/Tiagos/Scolas/Dragics and trade for the Kawhi's and Stephan Jacksons.
The Lakers, on the other hand, have had no such fortune. Their stars do not give hometown discounts (whether they should or not is beside the point). Their draft picks are given away to get under the cap. They round their rosters out with aging vet ring chasers and D-leaguers nobody has ever of, nor should ever have had to hear of. Everybody blamed D'Antoni while we were getting blown out of round 1 last year, but that blow-out was a decade plus in the making.
The Spurs cruised into the postseason fully healthy because their stars only have to play 30 mpg thanks to a deep/young bench, thanks to never trading first rounders, thanks to the stars giving up money to play for a more competitive team. The Lakers barely eked into the playoffs after their star player snapped his achilles because his team couldn't afford a decent enough bench with young legs required to survived an 82-game season. That's what happens when you spend your whole cap on 3-4 guys. Every once in a while, you end up having to give Andrew Goudelock major playoff minutes.
What message are you sending to top free agents by tanking? I don't know. What "message" did Boston send when they tried tanking for Durant/Oden? Whatever it was, it didn't seem to dissuade KG or Ray Allen none. It's moot anyway because "top free agents" aren't coming here next year. Lebron is not leaving Miami to come to this situation. And if this season teaches Melo anything (and it certainly won't be how to defend, create for his teammates, or stay in better shape), it'll be that he has to play on a more talented team. This Laker team ain't it. Nevermind all the millions he'd have to give up to come to a team that's barely more talented than the one he's on.
Players don't care about "messages" or "the brand" anymore. It's money + talent. The Clippers sent the worst "message" any team could for the last two decades and yet they're the hotter team right now. It's all about the best combination of dollars and help. KG was very anti-Boston until he found out Ray would be going there, too. That's when he waived his no-trade agreement. Pierce + Ray. Didn't care about the "message" Boston sent. Kobe is not enough to get Lebron or Melo to come here.
But Kobe + a hyped up draft pick or, ya know, whatever disgruntled all-star on another team could be acquired for that draft pick, much like Ray Allen was acquired for Boston's pick--might be. HMMMMMM
The Lakers are actually more likely to attract a "top free agent" next year by tanking than by breaking their necks to be 1st round cannon fodder. If they can get a high enough pick in this year's draft, you might be able to use that pick to get Kevin Love, Rondo (not wild about him at this point, but that's an example), or who knows. You get one of those guys, and THEN maybe Melo or Lebron takes a long look at this team.
+10000!!!
This sums up my take on it exactly!! Well said!!!
+ 10000000!!!!
But people rather retain some useless old fashion pride.
You tank THIS YEAR because this is the year the Lakers aren't making any noise in the postseason anyway. Even when Kobe comes back, he won't be 100%. Nique said it took him a full year to feel like himself again. It'll probably be that way for Kobe, who won't be in the top condition to which he's accustomed. Then he's here for what, 2-3 more years maybe? Can't tank those seasons. So, no, the Lakers can't tank any year. It's this year or it's 4-5 years from now.
Really tired of people citing the Spurs like it's a comparable situation. The Spurs managed their team much differently (*cough* better *cough*) than we did over Duncan's and Kobe's careers. The Spurs managed their cap space while retaining their draft picks, giving them the flexibility in both finances and assets (a near constant influx of blue chip talent, usually stashed overseas) to draft the Parkers/Ginobilis/Tiagos/Scolas/Dragics and trade for the Kawhi's and Stephan Jacksons.
The Lakers, on the other hand, have had no such fortune. Their stars do not give hometown discounts (whether they should or not is beside the point). Their draft picks are given away to get under the cap. They round their rosters out with aging vet ring chasers and D-leaguers nobody has ever of, nor should ever have had to hear of. Everybody blamed D'Antoni while we were getting blown out of round 1 last year, but that blow-out was a decade plus in the making.
The Spurs cruised into the postseason fully healthy because their stars only have to play 30 mpg thanks to a deep/young bench, thanks to never trading first rounders, thanks to the stars giving up money to play for a more competitive team. The Lakers barely eked into the playoffs after their star player snapped his achilles because his team couldn't afford a decent enough bench with young legs required to survived an 82-game season. That's what happens when you spend your whole cap on 3-4 guys. Every once in a while, you end up having to give Andrew Goudelock major playoff minutes.
What message are you sending to top free agents by tanking? I don't know. What "message" did Boston send when they tried tanking for Durant/Oden? Whatever it was, it didn't seem to dissuade KG or Ray Allen none. It's moot anyway because "top free agents" aren't coming here next year. Lebron is not leaving Miami to come to this situation. And if this season teaches Melo anything (and it certainly won't be how to defend, create for his teammates, or stay in better shape), it'll be that he has to play on a more talented team. This Laker team ain't it. Nevermind all the millions he'd have to give up to come to a team that's barely more talented than the one he's on.
Players don't care about "messages" or "the brand" anymore. It's money + talent. The Clippers sent the worst "message" any team could for the last two decades and yet they're the hotter team right now. It's all about the best combination of dollars and help. KG was very anti-Boston until he found out Ray would be going there, too. That's when he waived his no-trade agreement. Pierce + Ray. Didn't care about the "message" Boston sent. Kobe is not enough to get Lebron or Melo to come here.
But Kobe + a hyped up draft pick or, ya know, whatever disgruntled all-star on another team could be acquired for that draft pick, much like Ray Allen was acquired for Boston's pick--might be. HMMMMMM
The Lakers are actually more likely to attract a "top free agent" next year by tanking than by breaking their necks to be 1st round cannon fodder. If they can get a high enough pick in this year's draft, you might be able to use that pick to get Kevin Love, Rondo (not wild about him at this point, but that's an example), or who knows. You get one of those guys, and THEN maybe Melo or Lebron takes a long look at this team.
+10000!!!
This sums up my take on it exactly!! Well said!!!
+ 10000000!!!!
But people rather retain some useless old fashion pride.
You tank THIS YEAR because this is the year the Lakers aren't making any noise in the postseason anyway. Even when Kobe comes back, he won't be 100%. Nique said it took him a full year to feel like himself again. It'll probably be that way for Kobe, who won't be in the top condition to which he's accustomed. Then he's here for what, 2-3 more years maybe? Can't tank those seasons. So, no, the Lakers can't tank any year. It's this year or it's 4-5 years from now.
Really tired of people citing the Spurs like it's a comparable situation. The Spurs managed their team much differently (*cough* better *cough*) than we did over Duncan's and Kobe's careers. The Spurs managed their cap space while retaining their draft picks, giving them the flexibility in both finances and assets (a near constant influx of blue chip talent, usually stashed overseas) to draft the Parkers/Ginobilis/Tiagos/Scolas/Dragics and trade for the Kawhi's and Stephan Jacksons.
The Lakers, on the other hand, have had no such fortune. Their stars do not give hometown discounts (whether they should or not is beside the point). Their draft picks are given away to get under the cap. They round their rosters out with aging vet ring chasers and D-leaguers nobody has ever of, nor should ever have had to hear of. Everybody blamed D'Antoni while we were getting blown out of round 1 last year, but that blow-out was a decade plus in the making.
The Spurs cruised into the postseason fully healthy because their stars only have to play 30 mpg thanks to a deep/young bench, thanks to never trading first rounders, thanks to the stars giving up money to play for a more competitive team. The Lakers barely eked into the playoffs after their star player snapped his achilles because his team couldn't afford a decent enough bench with young legs required to survived an 82-game season. That's what happens when you spend your whole cap on 3-4 guys. Every once in a while, you end up having to give Andrew Goudelock major playoff minutes.
What message are you sending to top free agents by tanking? I don't know. What "message" did Boston send when they tried tanking for Durant/Oden? Whatever it was, it didn't seem to dissuade KG or Ray Allen none. It's moot anyway because "top free agents" aren't coming here next year. Lebron is not leaving Miami to come to this situation. And if this season teaches Melo anything (and it certainly won't be how to defend, create for his teammates, or stay in better shape), it'll be that he has to play on a more talented team. This Laker team ain't it. Nevermind all the millions he'd have to give up to come to a team that's barely more talented than the one he's on.
Players don't care about "messages" or "the brand" anymore. It's money + talent. The Clippers sent the worst "message" any team could for the last two decades and yet they're the hotter team right now. It's all about the best combination of dollars and help. KG was very anti-Boston until he found out Ray would be going there, too. That's when he waived his no-trade agreement. Pierce + Ray. Didn't care about the "message" Boston sent. Kobe is not enough to get Lebron or Melo to come here.
But Kobe + a hyped up draft pick or, ya know, whatever disgruntled all-star on another team could be acquired for that draft pick, much like Ray Allen was acquired for Boston's pick--might be. HMMMMMM
The Lakers are actually more likely to attract a "top free agent" next year by tanking than by breaking their necks to be 1st round cannon fodder. If they can get a high enough pick in this year's draft, you might be able to use that pick to get Kevin Love, Rondo (not wild about him at this point, but that's an example), or who knows. You get one of those guys, and THEN maybe Melo or Lebron takes a long look at this team.
+10000!!!
This sums up my take on it exactly!! Well said!!!
+ 10000000!!!!
But people rather retain some useless old fashion pride.
x 9999999999999999999999999
Pjiddy you killed it.
I think that post did a superb job explaining a ton of the rationale. That said I don't think anyone on her is advocating to tank every year. We're saying for one year alone.
If were to get Wiggins, can you imagine the reaction from every other NBA team and fan base. I would love to rub it in. That kind of positive feedback would do a lot more for potential FA's then this 8th seed nonsense.
You tank THIS YEAR because this is the year the Lakers aren't making any noise in the postseason anyway. Even when Kobe comes back, he won't be 100%. Nique said it took him a full year to feel like himself again. It'll probably be that way for Kobe, who won't be in the top condition to which he's accustomed. Then he's here for what, 2-3 more years maybe? Can't tank those seasons. So, no, the Lakers can't tank any year. It's this year or it's 4-5 years from now.
Really tired of people citing the Spurs like it's a comparable situation. The Spurs managed their team much differently (*cough* better *cough*) than we did over Duncan's and Kobe's careers. The Spurs managed their cap space while retaining their draft picks, giving them the flexibility in both finances and assets (a near constant influx of blue chip talent, usually stashed overseas) to draft the Parkers/Ginobilis/Tiagos/Scolas/Dragics and trade for the Kawhi's and Stephan Jacksons.
The Lakers, on the other hand, have had no such fortune. Their stars do not give hometown discounts (whether they should or not is beside the point). Their draft picks are given away to get under the cap. They round their rosters out with aging vet ring chasers and D-leaguers nobody has ever of, nor should ever have had to hear of. Everybody blamed D'Antoni while we were getting blown out of round 1 last year, but that blow-out was a decade plus in the making.
The Spurs cruised into the postseason fully healthy because their stars only have to play 30 mpg thanks to a deep/young bench, thanks to never trading first rounders, thanks to the stars giving up money to play for a more competitive team. The Lakers barely eked into the playoffs after their star player snapped his achilles because his team couldn't afford a decent enough bench with young legs required to survived an 82-game season. That's what happens when you spend your whole cap on 3-4 guys. Every once in a while, you end up having to give Andrew Goudelock major playoff minutes.
What message are you sending to top free agents by tanking? I don't know. What "message" did Boston send when they tried tanking for Durant/Oden? Whatever it was, it didn't seem to dissuade KG or Ray Allen none. It's moot anyway because "top free agents" aren't coming here next year. Lebron is not leaving Miami to come to this situation. And if this season teaches Melo anything (and it certainly won't be how to defend, create for his teammates, or stay in better shape), it'll be that he has to play on a more talented team. This Laker team ain't it. Nevermind all the millions he'd have to give up to come to a team that's barely more talented than the one he's on.
Players don't care about "messages" or "the brand" anymore. It's money + talent. The Clippers sent the worst "message" any team could for the last two decades and yet they're the hotter team right now. It's all about the best combination of dollars and help. KG was very anti-Boston until he found out Ray would be going there, too. That's when he waived his no-trade agreement. Pierce + Ray. Didn't care about the "message" Boston sent. Kobe is not enough to get Lebron or Melo to come here.
But Kobe + a hyped up draft pick or, ya know, whatever disgruntled all-star on another team could be acquired for that draft pick, much like Ray Allen was acquired for Boston's pick--might be. HMMMMMM
The Lakers are actually more likely to attract a "top free agent" next year by tanking than by breaking their necks to be 1st round cannon fodder. If they can get a high enough pick in this year's draft, you might be able to use that pick to get Kevin Love, Rondo (not wild about him at this point, but that's an example), or who knows. You get one of those guys, and THEN maybe Melo or Lebron takes a long look at this team.
+10000!!!
This sums up my take on it exactly!! Well said!!!
+ 10000000!!!!
But people rather retain some useless old fashion pride.
wow, best post ever!!! even with Kobe 100% RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT, this is not even a second round team because no. 2 option Gasol suddenly forgot how to play basketball, and Nash aged more in 1 year plus in LA than he ever did during his PHX tenure. look at Boston, they're not "shameful" of "tanking" because all will be forget and forgive if they land Wiggins or other top 3 prospects.
Last edited by SGV-Laker fan on Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
which brings to my next point, i don't even want Kobe comes back this year. why not take a year off get TOTALLY healthy. there's no reason to come back and fighting for a low playoff seed which won't do any party good, Kobe would be burnt out and possibly risk another injury, and Lakers lose their potential lottery pick.
You tank THIS YEAR because this is the year the Lakers aren't making any noise in the postseason anyway. Even when Kobe comes back, he won't be 100%. Nique said it took him a full year to feel like himself again. It'll probably be that way for Kobe, who won't be in the top condition to which he's accustomed. Then he's here for what, 2-3 more years maybe? Can't tank those seasons. So, no, the Lakers can't tank any year. It's this year or it's 4-5 years from now.
Really tired of people citing the Spurs like it's a comparable situation. The Spurs managed their team much differently (*cough* better *cough*) than we did over Duncan's and Kobe's careers. The Spurs managed their cap space while retaining their draft picks, giving them the flexibility in both finances and assets (a near constant influx of blue chip talent, usually stashed overseas) to draft the Parkers/Ginobilis/Tiagos/Scolas/Dragics and trade for the Kawhi's and Stephan Jacksons.
The Lakers, on the other hand, have had no such fortune. Their stars do not give hometown discounts (whether they should or not is beside the point). Their draft picks are given away to get under the cap. They round their rosters out with aging vet ring chasers and D-leaguers nobody has ever of, nor should ever have had to hear of. Everybody blamed D'Antoni while we were getting blown out of round 1 last year, but that blow-out was a decade plus in the making.
The Spurs cruised into the postseason fully healthy because their stars only have to play 30 mpg thanks to a deep/young bench, thanks to never trading first rounders, thanks to the stars giving up money to play for a more competitive team. The Lakers barely eked into the playoffs after their star player snapped his achilles because his team couldn't afford a decent enough bench with young legs required to survived an 82-game season. That's what happens when you spend your whole cap on 3-4 guys. Every once in a while, you end up having to give Andrew Goudelock major playoff minutes.
What message are you sending to top free agents by tanking? I don't know. What "message" did Boston send when they tried tanking for Durant/Oden? Whatever it was, it didn't seem to dissuade KG or Ray Allen none. It's moot anyway because "top free agents" aren't coming here next year. Lebron is not leaving Miami to come to this situation. And if this season teaches Melo anything (and it certainly won't be how to defend, create for his teammates, or stay in better shape), it'll be that he has to play on a more talented team. This Laker team ain't it. Nevermind all the millions he'd have to give up to come to a team that's barely more talented than the one he's on.
Players don't care about "messages" or "the brand" anymore. It's money + talent. The Clippers sent the worst "message" any team could for the last two decades and yet they're the hotter team right now. It's all about the best combination of dollars and help. KG was very anti-Boston until he found out Ray would be going there, too. That's when he waived his no-trade agreement. Pierce + Ray. Didn't care about the "message" Boston sent. Kobe is not enough to get Lebron or Melo to come here.
But Kobe + a hyped up draft pick or, ya know, whatever disgruntled all-star on another team could be acquired for that draft pick, much like Ray Allen was acquired for Boston's pick--might be. HMMMMMM
The Lakers are actually more likely to attract a "top free agent" next year by tanking than by breaking their necks to be 1st round cannon fodder. If they can get a high enough pick in this year's draft, you might be able to use that pick to get Kevin Love, Rondo (not wild about him at this point, but that's an example), or who knows. You get one of those guys, and THEN maybe Melo or Lebron takes a long look at this team.
+10000!!!
This sums up my take on it exactly!! Well said!!!
+ 10000000!!!!
But people rather retain some useless old fashion pride.
we're looking at a bunch of mid-late career FAs if we're gonna go that route. and thats IF, IF they decide to sign here. and there's definitely no shaq on that list. it'll be sad if Kevin Love is the biggest fish we catch.
what happens if we strike out, also having passed on next year's draft?
i dunno man, we were so lucky to have a superstar stay here from beginning to end. i feel like this draft is the perfect opportunity to make lightning strike twice.
Folks, the Lakers ARE tanking. Take a close look at this roster... this IS the Lakers version of tanking.
And don't think for a second that, once Kobe comes back, this team can make a run for the playoffs. It will NOT happen.
This team will be worse once Kobe comes back. Any success this team is currently having -- very little -- is due to pace and ball movement. Everyone is in RHYTHM.
That will not be the case once Kobe returns. Kobe will look to rely on skills more than ever before. Specifically, he'll be looking to slow the pace, and he'll be looking at that post early and often. He should. But, it will impact the games of a good number of these guys.
And who cares if it does. I mean, seriously, take a close, honest look at personnel on this team.
You tank THIS YEAR because this is the year the Lakers aren't making any noise in the postseason anyway. Even when Kobe comes back, he won't be 100%. Nique said it took him a full year to feel like himself again. It'll probably be that way for Kobe, who won't be in the top condition to which he's accustomed. Then he's here for what, 2-3 more years maybe? Can't tank those seasons. So, no, the Lakers can't tank any year. It's this year or it's 4-5 years from now.
Really tired of people citing the Spurs like it's a comparable situation. The Spurs managed their team much differently (*cough* better *cough*) than we did over Duncan's and Kobe's careers. The Spurs managed their cap space while retaining their draft picks, giving them the flexibility in both finances and assets (a near constant influx of blue chip talent, usually stashed overseas) to draft the Parkers/Ginobilis/Tiagos/Scolas/Dragics and trade for the Kawhi's and Stephan Jacksons.
The Lakers, on the other hand, have had no such fortune. Their stars do not give hometown discounts (whether they should or not is beside the point). Their draft picks are given away to get under the cap. They round their rosters out with aging vet ring chasers and D-leaguers nobody has ever of, nor should ever have had to hear of. Everybody blamed D'Antoni while we were getting blown out of round 1 last year, but that blow-out was a decade plus in the making.
The Spurs cruised into the postseason fully healthy because their stars only have to play 30 mpg thanks to a deep/young bench, thanks to never trading first rounders, thanks to the stars giving up money to play for a more competitive team. The Lakers barely eked into the playoffs after their star player snapped his achilles because his team couldn't afford a decent enough bench with young legs required to survived an 82-game season. That's what happens when you spend your whole cap on 3-4 guys. Every once in a while, you end up having to give Andrew Goudelock major playoff minutes.
What message are you sending to top free agents by tanking? I don't know. What "message" did Boston send when they tried tanking for Durant/Oden? Whatever it was, it didn't seem to dissuade KG or Ray Allen none. It's moot anyway because "top free agents" aren't coming here next year. Lebron is not leaving Miami to come to this situation. And if this season teaches Melo anything (and it certainly won't be how to defend, create for his teammates, or stay in better shape), it'll be that he has to play on a more talented team. This Laker team ain't it. Nevermind all the millions he'd have to give up to come to a team that's barely more talented than the one he's on.
Players don't care about "messages" or "the brand" anymore. It's money + talent. The Clippers sent the worst "message" any team could for the last two decades and yet they're the hotter team right now. It's all about the best combination of dollars and help. KG was very anti-Boston until he found out Ray would be going there, too. That's when he waived his no-trade agreement. Pierce + Ray. Didn't care about the "message" Boston sent. Kobe is not enough to get Lebron or Melo to come here.
But Kobe + a hyped up draft pick or, ya know, whatever disgruntled all-star on another team could be acquired for that draft pick, much like Ray Allen was acquired for Boston's pick--might be. HMMMMMM
The Lakers are actually more likely to attract a "top free agent" next year by tanking than by breaking their necks to be 1st round cannon fodder. If they can get a high enough pick in this year's draft, you might be able to use that pick to get Kevin Love, Rondo (not wild about him at this point, but that's an example), or who knows. You get one of those guys, and THEN maybe Melo or Lebron takes a long look at this team.
+10000!!!
This sums up my take on it exactly!! Well said!!!
+ 10000000!!!!
But people rather retain some useless old fashion pride.
Looks like the Utah Jazz are now the frontrunners for the #1 pick next year. They are pathetically bad. They are the only nba team with no wins yet. Toronto is absolutely destroying them right now. _________________ Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold.
I think that post did a superb job explaining a ton of the rationale. That said I don't think anyone on her is advocating to tank every year. We're saying for one year alone.
If were to get Wiggins, can you imagine the reaction from every other NBA team and fan base. I would love to rub it in. That kind of positive feedback would do a lot more for potential FA's then this 8th seed nonsense.
One thing i should've added, to address the rationale against tanking (which i find largely forgivable) is the conception that the Lakers players/coaches are to go out there and lose games on purpose. This is not the case. I think the Lakers are overachieving a bit right now. I think it will get to a point where our record makes the team ask itself several questions such as: should we be hurrying Kobe back on the floor and maybe even shelve him the way the Celtics shelved Pierce in 2007? And we trade Pau?
It's not so much willful losing i'm advising so much as resisting moves made for short-term success. I think the longer Kobe stays off the floor, the greater its lottery odds go up.
Looks like the Utah Jazz are now the frontrunners for the #1 pick next year. They are pathetically bad. They are the only nba team with no wins yet. Toronto is absolutely destroying them right now.
i can see Wiggins and other top prospects will tank their games just NOT to be drafted by Utah no. 1
Looks like the Utah Jazz are now the frontrunners for the #1 pick next year. They are pathetically bad. They are the only nba team with no wins yet. Toronto is absolutely destroying them right now.
i can see Wiggins and other top prospects will tank their games just NOT to be drafted by Utah no. 1
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