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chekmatex4 Starting Rotation
Joined: 07 Dec 2011 Posts: 731 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:30 pm Post subject: How to fix the Lakers |
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The Lakers are in trouble and it runs from the top down. My thoughts to fix the Lakers provided below.
Management and Coaching
Sorry Jim, Mitch, and Byron but the Lakers need to bring in people that have a history of winning with no previous ties to the Lakers. The team needs to focus on developing the young guys to see what we have. The silver lining to losing is that it improves Lakers chances to keep their 2016 first round draft pick, which is top 3 protected and held by the 76ers.
Personally I would like to see Tom Thibodeau or Avery Johnson be the Lakers coach. These are no nonsense coaches who will drill the young guys. They tend to wear down on the players over a couple of years but would help with immediate player development. They both previously won Coach of the Year honors so should have the respect of players, including Kobe.
Team Depth Chart
This Lakers team was terribly built and lacks balance. The team has 4 guards (Russell, Clarkson, Williams, and Kobe) who should get consistent minutes. Sorry Huertas but the young guys need more PT to develop. Kobe needs to play closer to the basket, ideally in the high post, where he can use his post-up skills and minimize the energy needed to get a good shot off. Rotating these 4 players will also allow them to handle the ball while the other is on the bench.
Lakers have a lack of depth at SF but should play Anthony Brown to develop him. Not sure why they kept MWP unless it is to help develop Randle in practice. Nick Young is a gunner and there is no more room for gunners outside of Williams and Kobe. We need to play Anthony Brown to develop him as the "3 and D" player the league is moving towards.
We have Randle, Bass, Kelly, Nance which may be our "deepest" position by quantity. Randle is undersized but gets his points through effort and energy. Bass is also an energy player that is a decent rebounder with the ability to hit the open 15 footer. I like Kelly as a stretch 4, similar to Ryan Anderson. Larry Nance Jr is another undersized PF. I think we should play him as a defensive SF due to his positive athleticism and hope he develops a 3 point shot.
At C we have Hibbert, Black, and Sacre. Hibbert has been performing well but has to focus on defense and setting picks. I hate that he calls for the ball in the post. Black is undersized but has excellent energy and hustles to make plays. Sacre is just a big body. Lakers should bring back Robert Upshaw to develop him for the future if they can get comfortable with his character issues.
Proposed Rotation
PG: Clarkson, Russell
SG: Kobe, Williams
SF: Brown, Nance Jr.
PF: Randle, Bass/Kelly
C: Hibbert, Upshaw/Black
Not part of the rotation: Huertas, Young, MWP, Sacre
Trades
I think Lakers should trade either Williams or Young. They both fill the role of 6th man, instant offense. Williams is the better player and would result in better offers.
Lakers should also decide if they want the PF to be traditional low post player or move towards using a stretch four. They should trade either Bass or Kelly depending on what they decide.
We would trade for young players to develop with the rest of the team at positions of need (SF and C) or expiring contracts combined with draft picks.
Salary Cap
The Lakers are in position to have a lot of cap space next year and, by my estimate, enough to offer two Max contracts.
Under contract: Russell, Williams, Brown, Nance Jr., Randle, Bass
Looks like Lakers are focusing on Durant. I would tell Durant we will sign him to a max contract offer and can offer a 2nd max contract to another free agent he wants to play with.
The cap space would have to be balanced with maintaining bird rights for Clarkson (RFA) and Hibbert (UFA). Kobe's bird rights would have to be released to free up the cap hold. Benefit of maintaining bird rights is you can go above the salary cap to resign the player. |
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Wilkes52 Star Player
Joined: 02 Jun 2009 Posts: 2415 Location: Far from home
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:23 am Post subject: Wrong forum |
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Maybe should be in the LA Lakers Lounge. _________________ “These GOAT discussions are fun distractions while sitting around waiting for the pizza to be served.”
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar |
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st8ktacos Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Oct 2015 Posts: 253
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:58 am Post subject: |
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We aren't getting Durant. He's either going to Washington or going to stay where he's at. |
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chekmatex4 Starting Rotation
Joined: 07 Dec 2011 Posts: 731 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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st8ktacos wrote: | We aren't getting Durant. He's either going to Washington or going to stay where he's at. | Do you know as a fact that Lakers can't get him? Are you Durant? Regardless, Lakers have to make an attempt and if they don't get him, we'll have to see where they go. My only point is telling Durant they can sign him AND another free agent he wants to play with will improve Lakers chances of getting him.
If they miss out on Durant, they can try to absorb bad contracts and receive draft picks as compensation to continue rebuild process I guess. The 2016 free agent class is not deep with Superstars. |
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Bard207 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013 Posts: 7713
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:40 am Post subject: |
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Would there be a hit - ding to the team image if the Lakers weren't even given a chance to sit down and recruit Durant in Free Agency? |
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st8ktacos Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Oct 2015 Posts: 253
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Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:48 am Post subject: |
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chekmatex4 wrote: | st8ktacos wrote: | We aren't getting Durant. He's either going to Washington or going to stay where he's at. | Do you know as a fact that Lakers can't get him? Are you Durant? Regardless, Lakers have to make an attempt and if they don't get him, we'll have to see where they go. My only point is telling Durant they can sign him AND another free agent he wants to play with will improve Lakers chances of getting him.
If they miss out on Durant, they can try to absorb bad contracts and receive draft picks as compensation to continue rebuild process I guess. The 2016 free agent class is not deep with Superstars. |
They don't have to make an attempt. This has been the problem the last few years. They are wasting their time on players who barely want to meet with them to begin with. Durant will MOST LIKELY never be a Laker. |
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Dave20 Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2013 Posts: 11333
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:32 am Post subject: |
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Hire Thibs. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144588 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:50 am Post subject: Re: How to fix the Lakers |
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chekmatex4 wrote: | The Lakers are in trouble and it runs from the top down. My thoughts to fix the Lakers provided below.
Management and Coaching
Sorry Jim, Mitch, and Byron but the Lakers need to bring in people that have a history of winning with no previous ties to the Lakers. The team needs to focus on developing the young guys to see what we have. The silver lining to losing is that it improves Lakers chances to keep their 2016 first round draft pick, which is top 3 protected and held by the 76ers.
Personally I would like to see Tom Thibodeau or Avery Johnson be the Lakers coach. These are no nonsense coaches who will drill the young guys. They tend to wear down on the players over a couple of years but would help with immediate player development. They both previously won Coach of the Year honors so should have the respect of players, including Kobe.
Team Depth Chart
This Lakers team was terribly built and lacks balance. The team has 4 guards (Russell, Clarkson, Williams, and Kobe) who should get consistent minutes. Sorry Huertas but the young guys need more PT to develop. Kobe needs to play closer to the basket, ideally in the high post, where he can use his post-up skills and minimize the energy needed to get a good shot off. Rotating these 4 players will also allow them to handle the ball while the other is on the bench.
Lakers have a lack of depth at SF but should play Anthony Brown to develop him. Not sure why they kept MWP unless it is to help develop Randle in practice. Nick Young is a gunner and there is no more room for gunners outside of Williams and Kobe. We need to play Anthony Brown to develop him as the "3 and D" player the league is moving towards.
We have Randle, Bass, Kelly, Nance which may be our "deepest" position by quantity. Randle is undersized but gets his points through effort and energy. Bass is also an energy player that is a decent rebounder with the ability to hit the open 15 footer. I like Kelly as a stretch 4, similar to Ryan Anderson. Larry Nance Jr is another undersized PF. I think we should play him as a defensive SF due to his positive athleticism and hope he develops a 3 point shot.
At C we have Hibbert, Black, and Sacre. Hibbert has been performing well but has to focus on defense and setting picks. I hate that he calls for the ball in the post. Black is undersized but has excellent energy and hustles to make plays. Sacre is just a big body. Lakers should bring back Robert Upshaw to develop him for the future if they can get comfortable with his character issues.
Proposed Rotation
PG: Clarkson, Russell
SG: Kobe, Williams
SF: Brown, Nance Jr.
PF: Randle, Bass/Kelly
C: Hibbert, Upshaw/Black
Not part of the rotation: Huertas, Young, MWP, Sacre
Trades
I think Lakers should trade either Williams or Young. They both fill the role of 6th man, instant offense. Williams is the better player and would result in better offers.
Lakers should also decide if they want the PF to be traditional low post player or move towards using a stretch four. They should trade either Bass or Kelly depending on what they decide.
We would trade for young players to develop with the rest of the team at positions of need (SF and C) or expiring contracts combined with draft picks.
Salary Cap
The Lakers are in position to have a lot of cap space next year and, by my estimate, enough to offer two Max contracts.
Under contract: Russell, Williams, Brown, Nance Jr., Randle, Bass
Looks like Lakers are focusing on Durant. I would tell Durant we will sign him to a max contract offer and can offer a 2nd max contract to another free agent he wants to play with.
The cap space would have to be balanced with maintaining bird rights for Clarkson (RFA) and Hibbert (UFA). Kobe's bird rights would have to be released to free up the cap hold. Benefit of maintaining bird rights is you can go above the salary cap to resign the player. |
Lost me there, I have no idea why that would matter. And we have people in the FO with a history of winning, so? One simple way to fix the Lakers would be for fans to shut up for 3-4 seasons, be patient, and let things develop. Roy Hibbert said it best. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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LVLAKERFAN Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 5347 Location: United States
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Next years capspace will solve all the laker problems.
I just hope that Randle, Russell, Nance and Brown continue to develop. I hope we can get Clarkson back and two more very good players. _________________ SCHROEDER/CARUSO/COOK
MATTHEWS/KCP/THT
LEBRON/KUZMA/BABYGIANIS
AD/MORRIS/DUDLEY
GASOL/HARRELL/TINKLE
Coachs:Vogel/Kidd |
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chekmatex4 Starting Rotation
Joined: 07 Dec 2011 Posts: 731 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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LVLAKERFAN wrote: | Next years capspace will solve all the laker problems.
I just hope that Randle, Russell, Nance and Brown continue to develop. I hope we can get Clarkson back and two more very good players. | First, capspace will not solve all the Lakers problems if no one takes the money. Lakers can't overpay middling stars and be championship contenders.
Another issue is Scott is not going a good job of developing the young guys.
venturalakersfan wrote: | Lost me there, I have no idea why that would matter. And we have people in the FO with a history of winning, so? One simple way to fix the Lakers would be for fans to shut up for 3-4 seasons, be patient, and let things develop. Roy Hibbert said it best. |
Who in the FO has a history of winning? Jim Buss has been terrible. Mitch Kupchak made some good moves in the past but nothing recently. Also, it has been noted that Kupchak does very poorly in recruitment pitches to players in free agency.
Patience is great when you see progress but there is very little progress in the development of the Lakers young players. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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st8ktacos wrote: | chekmatex4 wrote: | st8ktacos wrote: | We aren't getting Durant. He's either going to Washington or going to stay where he's at. | Do you know as a fact that Lakers can't get him? Are you Durant? Regardless, Lakers have to make an attempt and if they don't get him, we'll have to see where they go. My only point is telling Durant they can sign him AND another free agent he wants to play with will improve Lakers chances of getting him.
If they miss out on Durant, they can try to absorb bad contracts and receive draft picks as compensation to continue rebuild process I guess. The 2016 free agent class is not deep with Superstars. |
They don't have to make an attempt. This has been the problem the last few years. They are wasting their time on players who barely want to meet with them to begin with. Durant will MOST LIKELY never be a Laker. |
They do have to make an attempt. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Next years capspace will solve all the laker problems. |
This goes two ways. The Lakers get monumental capspace and acquire 2 max FAs or..
Max FAs end up going to top teams that suddenly get cap space to pay them. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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silkwilkes Star Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2002 Posts: 6943 Location: searching for the mojo of Dr. Buss
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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There's too many things broken to point out... so fixing the Lakers is now very difficult. Some of the main issues:
- Ownership with no vision
- Power struggle among owners
- Capable GM that is hamstrung because owner thinks he's the GM at the worst times
- Bad coach
- Overbearing history and legendary players from that history that are hurting our ability to innovate
- Not much competitive advantage being in LA anymore
- Bad PR and marketing so we're not controlling the message (as much as we can and should)
- General depression from all involved, including the fans _________________ "He may say it's not you, it's him.... but it's really you." |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144588 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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chekmatex4 wrote: | LVLAKERFAN wrote: | Next years capspace will solve all the laker problems.
I just hope that Randle, Russell, Nance and Brown continue to develop. I hope we can get Clarkson back and two more very good players. | First, capspace will not solve all the Lakers problems if no one takes the money. Lakers can't overpay middling stars and be championship contenders.
Another issue is Scott is not going a good job of developing the young guys.
venturalakersfan wrote: | Lost me there, I have no idea why that would matter. And we have people in the FO with a history of winning, so? One simple way to fix the Lakers would be for fans to shut up for 3-4 seasons, be patient, and let things develop. Roy Hibbert said it best. |
Who in the FO has a history of winning? Jim Buss has been terrible. Mitch Kupchak made some good moves in the past but nothing recently. Also, it has been noted that Kupchak does very poorly in recruitment pitches to players in free agency.
Patience is great when you see progress but there is very little progress in the development of the Lakers young players. |
No, it hasn't been reported that Mitch does poorly in recruitment pitches, it was Jeannie and her marketing people who killed the LMA pitch. Agents respect Mitch, he isn't a problem. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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nevitt_smrek Star Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2009 Posts: 2803
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Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:23 am Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | Quote: | Next years capspace will solve all the laker problems. |
This goes two ways. The Lakers get monumental capspace and acquire 2 max FAs or..
Max FAs end up going to top teams that suddenly get cap space to pay them. |
Or the Lakers waste their cap space on the wrong players. Nothing worse than being locked in with the wrong superstar. _________________ Smrek 2, Nevitt 1, Barkley 0 |
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:Worthy Mamba Magic: Starting Rotation
Joined: 09 Jan 2008 Posts: 621
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Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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I posted this in another topic in the forum but I figured this is the right place.
I don't know why people give this hack any credibility. Honestly the play should be as follows. Sorry if I digress and maybe this is free agent and trade discussion. I just mean our core should stay intact and add real pieces that fit.
Our next coach, Shaka Smart?? He's like a Brad Stevens type.
Re-Sign Clarkson. 4 yrs 75mil. He works hard and is a great kid.
Sign Dj Augustin, Mario Chalmers or G. Vasquez
Sign Batum or Barnes (ideally Batum)
Trade Bass and Lou for a 2nd round pick.
Sign Ezhli
Draft Diallo(compliment to our core bit undersized) Skal(not sure here if he develops, but could be defensive monster)
Sign Courtney Lee
Sign Jj Hickson
Russell, Chalmers(best fit. Plays 12-15 a game)
Clarkson, Lee
Batum, Brown, Young(all can play 2-3)
Randle, Nance, Hickson
Ezhli, Skal, Black(maybe for depth)
I know this is lots of moves and seems nuts but this to me is the formula. Lee and Chalmers are solid vets that play their roles. Both decent to good shooters and defenders. Batum. We all love his game. Very underrated and still young. Max him out. JJ Hickson. He's a fiery guy at times and can run. This team needs to get out and run. He's also solid enough to play 25 min if needed and can guard the 4-5. Ezhli is a wild card. Very raw and limited offensively but he can protect the paint. Plus he can come off bench once our #2 pick develops. Skal will have to be monitored for his body and progress but I think he can be a Defensive monster. Black is just for depth. This squad in 2 years will be a playoff team. _________________ :Formally The Gr8 Lakes circa 2002: Yes I'm old school
Illiterate's could read the literature in my scriptures... |
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KobeDunk Retired Number
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 26849
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Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:09 am Post subject: |
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sell the team, enough sibling rivalry bull crap! That's the best way to fix this disaster they have created. |
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10. Starting Rotation
Joined: 04 Dec 2015 Posts: 273
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Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Everyone loves young coaches, but how exactly are OKC and Bulls doing?
Are they better? I think not.. Most of their fans are learning the bs nonsense fans have with young coaches...
GSW are working with Kerr and Luke, but how are the knicks, okc, and bulls doing???? |
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game2488 Rookie
Joined: 11 Dec 2015 Posts: 7
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Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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Trade Clarkson to sixers for our 1st round pick back.
Trade Randle and Hibbert to celtics for 2016 Nets unprotected 1st, 2016 Mavs top 7 protected 1st, and 2016 celtics unprotected 1st, and fillers- Lee and Jerebeko(expiring).
Trade Lou Williams and Brandon Bass to pistons for Jennings(expiring).
Hire Luke Walton. Absorb Iggy and Bogut's expiring contracts in a salary dump(warriors will chase after Durant). Sign Evan Fournier and Motiejunas.
Draft Ben Simmons, Jakob Poeltl, Denzel Valentine, and Grayson Allen.
Russel/Valentine
Fournier/Allen
Iggy/?
Simmons/Montiejunas
Bogut/Poeltl
Last edited by game2488 on Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17067
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Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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^^^
Uhh, no LOL |
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chekmatex4 Starting Rotation
Joined: 07 Dec 2011 Posts: 731 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:22 am Post subject: |
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game2488 wrote: | Trade Clarkson to sixers for our 1st round pick back.
Trade Randle and Hibbert to celtics for 2016 Nets unprotected 1st, 2016 Mavs top 7 protected 1st, and 2016 celtics unprotected 1st, and fillers- Lee and Jerebeko(expiring).
Trade Lou Williams and Brandon Bass to pistons for Jennings(expiring).
Hire Luke Walton. Absorb Iggy and Bogut's expiring contracts in a salary dump(warriors will chase after Durant). Sign Evan Fournier and Motiejunas.
Draft Ben Simmons, Jakob Poeltl, Denzel Valentine, and Grayson Allen.
Russel/Valentine
Fournier/Allen
Iggy/?
Simmons/Montiejunas
Bogut/Poeltl
Last edited by game2488 on Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total | Couple things wrong with this. If you're goal is to get Ben Simmons, there is no need to trade with the Sixers because our pick is top 3 protected and Simmons will likely go #1.
I rather keep Randle and maintain Hibbert's bird rights versus building salary cap and getting free agents. The 2016 free agency is not that deep and picks are always a question mark.
Why would GSW do a salary dump this year for the chance to get Durant next year when they are the favorite to repeat as Champions?
The rest of the proposed trade would be difficult to get done as it involves so many teams.
To keep it simple, Lakers should try to dump Bass and Young for expiring contracts. Jonas Jerebko (BOS) and Chris Anderson (MIA) are potential expiring options I would target. Maybe OKC trades Dion Waiters for Nick Young.
I would also love to trade for Ed Davis (POR) or Solomon Hill (IND).
3 separate trades between Lakers and Miami, Indiana, and OKC shown as one.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zzwxr6w |
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cyrus_the_virus Sixth Man
Joined: 14 Mar 2014 Posts: 52
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:51 am Post subject: |
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Trade Randle to Phoenix for Devin Booker as Nance is solidifying the PF for this team.
JC to Sixers for Embiid straight up. Risky for the Lakers, but could expedite the rebuild if Embiid can get back on the court. |
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lakurluv Star Player
Joined: 17 May 2010 Posts: 2529
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Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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As a coach at some point you have to assess all of your players not only individually but collectively, do they jell/mesh well as a team on and off the court. In the case of the Lakers it's apparent that on the court there is simply not a good mesh. Not only is the coaching bad right now, but the players are bad. The youngsters definitely have some talent, but it doesn't seem as though they're getting enough time on the floor to learn to play together.
Players seem to be out of position and there is some redundancy, at some positions and the Coaches aren't molding the players the correct way.
How to fix the Lakers it's simple!
Play the youngsters all season, sit or trade anyone else. Let them play without a true 7 footer in the middle if need be, we're loosing every game anyway. Play Russell/Clarkson/Randle/Nance/Kobe and let them run the floor together and bring Brown off the bench.
Get rid of everyone else except for maybe Black and do a total rebuild next year. Actually you can keep Bass, I think he's a keepr, Lou Will can stay also. Hibbert and Young have to go especially along with Kelly/Clarkson/Huertas and whoever else is shoring up the bench and DNP list.
Look to build through the draft and free agency next year is the best we can hope for. This is how you rebuild and FIX this team. After all of that is done, find a LEGITIMATE Coach who can build a system for these young kids before it's too late... |
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scoobs Star Player
Joined: 19 Aug 2005 Posts: 4746
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Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:16 am Post subject: |
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1. Trade Hibbert and Lou to Boston for Lee, Jerebko and 2016 first round pick. I really don't want to trade Lou, but this gives minutes to the young players and helps solidify the tank. |
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70sdude Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009 Posts: 4567
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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I'm inclined to support a ditching of the coaching staff and give the new inbound HC have a go with the current roster, with minor tweaks.
I haven't studied the FA market for small forwards but I think there's almost no chance we can obtain a franchise starring player this Summer (e.g., Kevin Durant.)
Draft the BPA, fire Bee, hire Thibs,, pull in DeRozan if possible, and roll with that. |
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