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VicXLakers
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 Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| rudy was on Fox and they are going to portray it to the trumpsters as some of the investigators disagree and it's a partisan report |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:18 am Post subject: |
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I'll post snippets:
| Quote: | Dan Diamond Verified account @ddiamond
Trump’s reported reaction when he was told Mueller was appointed: “Oh my god. This is terrible. This is the end of my presidency. I’m (bleep).” |
Link to actual text
That's totally the reaction of an innocent person. |
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Wilt
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:21 am Post subject: |
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The report has so much damaging information on Trump.
The Democrats need to find a concise and effective way to use it against him.
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VicXLakers
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| VicXLakers wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | Apparently the report details how Trump kept telling people to lie. |
it also states that Manafort as a member of the trump campaign conspired with the Russians in that cigar bar  |
and Boo Boo Barr's reasoning is that the collusion didn't occur during the hacking...that leaves out Manafort's conspiracy because it wasn't involved in the hacking. He just handed over the information. No hack necessary ...republican logic at it's finest |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | GregSargent
Mueller report documents that White House flatly lied to cover up fact that Trump made the decision to fire Comey.
First screen cap: Trump makes decision.
Second screen cap: Trump tries to get Rosenstein to say it was his decision. He refuses, but WH spox says it publicly. |
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Wilt
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:26 am Post subject: |
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Mueller says that campaign officials lying to the investigators had an impact on the interference investigation.
Which brings us back to Manafort's laywer repeating "No Collusion" a few weeks ago. Manafort was the key guy and he didn't give what Mueller probably needed.
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | The report has so much damaging information on Trump.
The Democrats need to find a concise and effective way to use it against him. |
If we were living in an even semi-normal reality, Congress would begin Impeachment Hearings as soon as they return from break.
But we don't live in that reality. I think they should hold official hearings but call them something else -- like "Hearings into Russian Interference in U.S. Election" and then lay it all out, call all the witnesses, etc. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:31 am Post subject: |
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For his written answers. Apparently Trump said "I don't know" and "I don't remember" 30 times.
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VicXLakers
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| trump cried constantly to find Hillary's emails so he formed a company and the campaign took it as a directive so ?Flynn? contacted multiple people |
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | The report has so much damaging information on Trump.
The Democrats need to find a concise and effective way to use it against him. |
If we were living in an even semi-normal reality, Congress would begin Impeachment Hearings as soon as they return from break.
But we don't live in that reality. I think they should hold official hearings but call them something else -- like "Hearings into Russian Interference in U.S. Election" and then lay it all out, call all the witnesses, etc. |
Or just bring Mueller in to ask him about all the unredacted portions. |
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VicXLakers
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:43 am Post subject: |
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They are preserving evidence because presidents can be charged after leaving office 
as usual Mueller (a republican) left it up to the Democrats to mop up once again for all the repugnant behavior |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:51 am Post subject: |
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The consensus (among lawyers and former DOJ commentators) seems to be that Mueller determined he could not indict a sitting president and therefore laid out all the incriminating behavior so that CONGRESS could use the material to determine if Trump's actions warranted Impeachment. Mueller specifically thought it was not his job to draw the conclusion that "Trump is guilty of x, y & z" since he couldn't indict him. This is why the report neither indicts him nor clears him. It was intentional.
Frustrating.
Last edited by ChefLinda on Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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governator
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | The consensus (among lawyers and former DOJ commentators) seems to be that Mueller determined he could not indict a sitting president and therefore laid out all the incriminating behavior so that CONGRESS could use the material to determine if Trump's actions warranted Impeachment. Mueller specifically thought it was not his job to draw the conclusion that "Trump is guilty of x, w & z" since he couldn't indict him. This is why the report neither indicts him nor clears him. It was intentional.
Frustrating. |
why didn't we know this before, I mean why doesn't anybody know that a special investigator will not/would not be able to reach a conclusion since it is not his/her job? or is this just Mueller's own private decision? |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | The report has so much damaging information on Trump.
The Democrats need to find a concise and effective way to use it against him. |
If we were living in an even semi-normal reality, Congress would begin Impeachment Hearings as soon as they return from break.
But we don't live in that reality. I think they should hold official hearings but call them something else -- like "Hearings into Russian Interference in U.S. Election" and then lay it all out, call all the witnesses, etc. |
Or just bring Mueller in to ask him about all the unredacted portions. |
That too. But to make an impact on the American electorate the way the Watergate hearings did, you have to present all the information with all the players over the course of a series of hearings. Of course Mueller should be called. But that's one-day. One-day in this news cycle gets swept away in the next 24 hours. |
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Wilt
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:00 am Post subject: |
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According to Mueller, the reason why some of Trump's attempts to obstruct justice were not successful - like firing Mueller - was that the people that worked for him didn't obey his orders.
And then Trump's lawyer comes on MSNBC and says that Mueller wasn't fired, therefore Trump did nothing wrong.
Gaslighting.
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Wilt
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:02 am Post subject: |
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Barr's "press conference" ended up being a failure. The talking points didn't stick and are being ridiculed.
I'm basing it on what I'm seeing on MSNBC. Who knows how any of this is covered on Fox News.
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | The consensus (among lawyers and former DOJ commentators) seems to be that Mueller determined he could not indict a sitting president and therefore laid out all the incriminating behavior so that CONGRESS could use the material to determine if Trump's actions warranted Impeachment. Mueller specifically thought it was not his job to draw the conclusion that "Trump is guilty of x, w & z" since he couldn't indict him. This is why the report neither indicts him nor clears him. It was intentional.
Frustrating. |
why didn't we know this before, I mean why doesn't anybody know that a special investigator will not/would not be able to reach a conclusion since it is not his/her job? or is this just Mueller's own private decision? |
Mueller's duty was to submit his report to the Attorney General. There has been speculation for over a year about how Mueller would interpret his mandate. If Barr had released the report when he received it, we would have known this for context when Barr released his hack letter. And that's why Barr intentionally didn't release Mueller's report before they got weeks to spin things.
There is a difference between an Independent Counsel and and Independent Commission. The Counsel is subject somewhat to DOJ policies and procedures. And Independent Commission (like the 9/11 commission) is specifically empowered to report to THE PEOPLE. They can make conclusions, suggest new laws to prevent this from happening again, etc.
We should have had both. But the (bleep) Republicans in Congress stonewalled everything. Theoretically the Congress could have been doing this the last two years. Instead the cowardly complicit GOP stonewalled and covered for Trump.
Sadly at this point the most realistic outcome is for Congress to investigate and hold PUBLIC hearings to get as much information out before the 2020 election to prevent Trump from being re-elected.
And the Congress needs to write new laws with regard to separation between Executive branch and DOJ, campaign finance laws, executive powers, policy to prevent Russian interference, voting machines, paper ballots, Facebook ads, and a whole bunch of other stuff that needs to happen to protect Democracy in the future no matter what happens with Trump.
Last edited by ChefLinda on Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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trmiv
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:06 am Post subject: |
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From the report:
"Intent. Substantial evidence indicated that the President's effort to have Sessions limit the scope of the Special Counsel's investigation to future election interference was intended to prevent further investigative scrutiny of the President's and his campaigns' conduct."
also vol2.155
"Intent. In analyzing the President's intent in his actions towards Cohen as a potential witness, there is evidence that could support that the President intended to discourage Cohen from cooperating with the government because Cohen's information would shed adverse light on the President's campaign-period conduct and statements."
Man if this is the redacted report, imagine whats under all those black bars. |
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VicXLakers
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | According to Mueller, the reason why some of Trump's attempts to obstruct justice were not successful - like firing Mueller - was that the people that worked for him didn't obey his orders.
And then Trump's lawyer comes on MSNBC and says that Mueller wasn't fired, therefore Trump did nothing wrong.
Gaslighting. |
"I'm not doing that crazy sh**" to be exact |
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Wilt
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:14 am Post subject: |
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Remember when Huckabee Sanders said that the FBI had lost confidence in Comey? (it wasn't true)
In the report, she says that she made the comment "in the heat of the moment that wasn't founded on anything."
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VicXLakers
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| If I bathed in peroxide would I feel clean....ah nevermind. Silly question..it would take something acidic |
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | According to Mueller, the reason why some of Trump's attempts to obstruct justice were not successful - like firing Mueller - was that the people that worked for him didn't obey his orders.
And then Trump's lawyer comes on MSNBC and says that Mueller wasn't fired, therefore Trump did nothing wrong.
Gaslighting. |
This is the worst behavior. LYING to cover for lying liars
How can A HUMAN say Comey wasn't fired?
I think Bar Association should revoke licensure if any lawyer blatantly lies while
Acting as a person's representation
America needs to stop allowing politicians And their legal counsel to lie directly to our faces |
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VicXLakers
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | Remember when Huckabee Sanders said that the FBI had lost confidence in Comey? (it wasn't true)
In the report, she says that she made the comment "in the heat of the moment that wasn't founded on anything." |
explains her look...
| Quote: | | .. she burns facts and then she uses that ash to create a perfect smoky eye. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Jared Yates Sexton @JYSexton
All right. I just finished the Mueller Report. I'm going to combine the most shocking and important revelations in one thread. Long and short: there was collusion, there was obstruction, Donald Trump needs to be removed from office. Immediately. 1/
Mueller found that Russia was actively interested in electing Trump president, as early as his announcement, if not earlier. Operations began just as Trump Campaign took off. Obvious the two are parallel organizations that occasionally worked together, had the same goals. 2/
Multiple members of the Trump Campaign were approached by Russia. They were receptive sometimes, other times they just proceeded with knowledge that Russia was interfering on their behalf. They were not ignorant of the fact that Russia was interfering, not at all. 3/
Trump and Cohen continued work on Trump Tower Moscow deal while actively misleading the public as to whether he had business in Russia. He knowingly lied to the American public while Cohen worked with people who seemingly thought the hotel and the election were intertwined. 4/
Perhaps the most critical piece of information is that the Trump Campaign knew that the DNC emails were going to be released before they were. They had an active, multi-pronged plan in place to capitalize off the communications stolen by the Russian government. 5/
Mueller found that Donald Trump, himself, knew that Wikileaks had the DNC emails before they were released and was in contact with campaign members and people outside of campaign and planned how to capitalize off their release. 6/
Trump's call for Russia to find Clinton's emails was fruitful. Within hours they followed his call and worked to find them. Despite saying it was just a TV stunt, he repeated the call off-camera. It was collusion in real time and in the light of public. No other way to say it 7/
As for the Trump Tower meeting, Mueller believed that Donald Trump Jr and Jared Kushner committed crimes, but worried that courts would lose the thread on legal definition of the crime and wasn't sure what the $ value of Clinton dirt was and if it was enough. 8/
Paul Manafort was especially lousy in the collusion front. He obviously had financial incentive and discussed battleground states with Russian individual, including Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, leading to suspicion that there were targeted efforts or interference. 9/
Manafort discussing battleground states with Russia is really, really unsettling. There's a ton of new ground here to cover and who knows what it led to and what can be proven. You could make an argument that this is possible what turned the election. 10/
In terms of obstruction, it is quite obvious that Mueller was communicating that there were SEVERAL instances of obstruction, SEVERAL instances of attempted obstruction, and that Congress should address the issue. 11/
Trump actively wanted Mueller out of the investigation, said as much repeatedly. He wanted to fire him and worried that his appointment would be "the end" of his presidency. 12/
Trump repeatedly told his subordinates to obstruct justice. He had them contact the principals, including Comey and Flynn, in order to take their temperature and communicate what Trump thought. It was a giant game of illegal telephone. 13/
Trump repeatedly would call Comey, take his temperature, and try and get him to take it easy on Flynn. He had Reince Priebus contact Flynn, take his temperature, seemingly try and work him in order to keep his loyalty. 14/
Multiple people in Trump's orbit declined to perform actions they thought were obstruction, including Chris Christie, who counseled Trump on how to not obstruct justice and watched him do it anyway. 15/
After it was revealed that Mike Flynn had illicit contact with Russia, Trump shook his hand and told him he'd be taken care of. It seems as if the exchange was a promise that Trump would help him with the fallout. 16/
Trump continually and actively addressed those in his orbit to either lie or coverup what they'd done wrong. He was constantly worried people would roll on him and constantly sought to get their stories straight in case of investigation. 17/
In a bizarre situation, Trump said outloud that he wanted an Attorney General who would protect him. He said he believed the AG position wasn't independent. He wanted an individual who would "protect him" and wouldn't mind keeping him illegal informed of investigations 18/
Trump knew that false testimony had been provided, particularly in Cohen's case. He was aware of a crime being committed and allowed it. 19/
Trump wanted to obstruct even more than he did, but the only thing keeping him from doing so was that those around him didn't want to be accessories to a crime. Don McGahn said he wanted him to do "crazy (bleep)" and refused. 20/
Now, the big, big, big takeaways. Mueller wrote this report in such a way as to send a message that the investigation was not the end all be all of this matter. It's obvious he was keenly aware that there was still much work to do in regards to both collusion and obstruction 21/
In collusion, Mueller repeatedly mentions that he was hindered by the Trump team either lying or else not providing information. He said they destroyed evidence and stonewalled him. That's why he couldn't establish the charge in totality. 22/
In terms of obstruction, Mueller was clearly putting the matter in the hands of Congress. This is a full and explicit layout of impeachable, high crimes. He was not intending Barr to steamroll over this thing. Not at all. 23/
What's more, Barr not only lied, it appears he actively obstructed justice by misrepresenting the report in his summary. This wasn't just a partisan structuring, it was an attempt to try and save Donald Trump and the administration. 24/
What William Barr did here is beyond disgusting and beyond shameful. He should be removed from office and there should be ramifications. This is, to put it bluntly, a massive and indefensible act of cover-up a systematic and overwhelming crime. 25/
The Trump Campaign and the Trump Organization are criminal enterprises. The only difference between them and the infamous "mob" is that their crimes are explicitly white collar and international in nature. They acted with an intention to commit crimes, over and over. 26/
It's impossible to read this report and not notice how careful they were to skirt the line of collusion and obstruction. They were obviously aware of what they were doing and that this is even a matter of discussion is an indictment of our political and judicial system. 27/
This last thing, I want to preface by saying I don't say this lightly. It makes me unbelievably sad and depressed that this has happened. But we have a criminal president and he must be removed. It has to happen. 28/
From the moment Donald Trump announced his campaign he engaged in one unethical and criminal act after another. It's in black and white that he and the people around him are happy traitors who put their wealth and power above the country's wellbeing. 29/ |
Link to original Twitter thread |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:34 am Post subject: |
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To sum up:
Mueller DID NOT EXONERATE Trump on EITHER the "collusion/conspiracy" piece or the "obstruction" piece. He laid out the evidence so that CONGRESS could decide on Impeachment, AND he preserved evidence so that future prosecutors can decide whether to indict Trump AFTER he leaves office.
So basically everything Barr put in his 4-page letter was complete (bleep). |
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