The PGA has the means to wait out LIV as LIV is bleeding epic amounts of money. The only explanation is that they were afraid of the ramifications of the lawsuits. There was reportedly some heated disagreement about evidence for the discovery process. The PGA must have a lot to hide.
The PGA has the means to wait out LIV as LIV is bleeding epic amounts of money.
LIV has the means as well though.
Quote:
The only explanation is that they were afraid of the ramifications of the lawsuits. There was reportedly some heated disagreement about evidence for the discovery process. The PGA must have a lot to hide.
Which they knew would happen as soon as they punished the defectors. They knew all of this would happen..
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 17265 Location: In a no-ship
Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:26 am Post subject:
ChickenStu wrote:
And while we're at it, all the guys on the PGA Tour should be thanking all of the LIV defectors, because they are the sole reason that the conditions just happened to magically improve for themselves in the wake of what LIV was doing, with the heavily increased purses and the like.
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 17265 Location: In a no-ship
Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:34 am Post subject:
This had to have been in the works for months. The only folks I feel sort of bad for here are the PGA pros who were basically being gaslighted by Monahan while he was negotiating in secret, and those who have a moral opposition to taking Saudi money.
This had to have been in the works for months. The only folks I feel sort of bad for here are the PGA pros who were basically being gaslighted by Monahan while he was negotiating in secret, and those who have a moral opposition to taking Saudi money.
Here's the way I see it. Everyone has a decision to make based on what they feel is best for them and their families.
I understand those who have a moral opposition to taking the Saudi money. That's fine.
But, be careful when you come out and take a hard stance with harsh criticisms like "I would never play for blood money."
Because you don't know what the future holds and what situation you'll be in. All those who came out publicly with that hard stance now have to eat their words.
Never is a strong word. Don't say it unless you mean it.
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 17265 Location: In a no-ship
Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:07 am Post subject:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
This had to have been in the works for months. The only folks I feel sort of bad for here are the PGA pros who were basically being gaslighted by Monahan while he was negotiating in secret, and those who have a moral opposition to taking Saudi money.
Here's the way I see it. Everyone has a decision to make based on what they feel is best for them and their families.
I understand those who have a moral opposition to taking the Saudi money. That's fine.
But, be careful when you come out and take a hard stance with harsh criticisms like "I would never play for blood money."
Because you don't know what the future holds and what situation you'll be in. All those who came out publicly with that hard stance now have to eat their words.
Never is a strong word. Don't say it unless you mean it.
Never just arrived at their doorsteps today.
Yep and this is another in a long line of examples to take the bag when you get the opportunity, because your bosses will not hesitate to sell you out for an extra buck. Rory had the chance at a half billion dollars and in the end he was walked over just like any other worker bee in a corporation.
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 32115 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:14 am Post subject:
Todd Lewis
@ToddLewisGC
·
35m
Spoke with several
@PGATOUR
players who were a part of a meeting in Delaware that ultimately reshaped the Tour schedule. Most of those players were offered
@livgolf_league
money but turned it down to be loyal to the Tour. Those players told me they feel betrayed and manipulated.
Reminds me of those Twitter workers who went hardcore for Elon only to be fired. Management always has different ideas of loyalty. I bet those PGA golfers who went the extra mile to defend the PGA and turned down money to play for the opposition only now to have the PIF as their bosses feel screwed. Not only did Jay Monahan throw them under the bus, he was the bus driver.
when Mohammed bin Salman Yasir Al-Rumayyan, the governor of the PIF, was asked how much money the PIF will be infusing in to NewCo and how much per year would be invested, he gave a long winded answer about reviewing each proposal and making a decision with the board on whether or not the proposal makes sense.
NBA players and executives can’t even tweet negative things about the Chinese government without financial backlash. All these golf announcers who are attacking the Saudi government today are not going to last long now that the new tour is dependent on Saudi money.
Jay Monahan meeting with PGA Tour golfers gets 'heated'
PGA Tour commissioner Jay Monahan was called a hypocrite in a heated meeting with players at Oakdale Golf and Country Club in Toronto on Tuesday, hours after the tour announced it was forming a partnership with Saudi Arabia's Public Investment Fund and the DP World Tour.
Australian golfer Geoff Ogilvy told reporters that a player called Monahan a hypocrite during the meeting, which lasted for more than an hour at the site of this week's RBC Canadian Open.
"It was mentioned, yeah, and he took it," Ogilvy said. "He said, 'Yeah.' He took it, for sure."
Quote:
In a news conference with reporters later, Monahan said he realizes he might be criticized for agreeing to form a new entity with Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund after he had questioned the source of the LIV Golf League in the past.
Quote:
"I recognize everything that I've said in the past and my prior positions. I recognize that people are going to call me a hypocrite," Monahan said.
"Anytime I said anything, I said it with the information that I had at that moment, and I said it based on someone that's trying to compete for the PGA Tour and our players. I accept those criticisms, but circumstances do change. I think that in looking at the big picture and looking at it this way, that's what got us to this point."
At last year's RBC Canadian Open, Monahan was asked about the Saudi Arabian monarchy's connections to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks during an interview with CBS Sports.
Quote:
"I think you'd have to be living under a rock not to know there are significant implications," Monahan said at the time. "I would ask any player who has left or any player who would consider leaving, 'Have you ever had to apologize for being a member of the PGA Tour?'"
Monahan on Tuesday said that the PGA Tour had been in talks with Public Investment Fund (PIF) officials for about seven weeks. He said PGA Tour policy board members Ed Herlihy and Jimmy Dunne had the initial meeting with Yasir Al-Rumayyan, the governor of the sovereign wealth fund.
There were four in-person meetings as well as a number of video calls and phone conversations.
During Tuesday's meeting with Monahan, several players complained about being kept in the dark during the negotiations.
Many players found out via social media on Tuesday before ever seeing a memo that was sent by Monahan.
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52702 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 7:32 pm Post subject:
Well, the good news is that I won’t have to worry about trying to work in watching professional golf into my schedule anymore. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
The for-profit aspect is interesting. Previously the PGA Tour was registered as a trade organization and the money was supposed to pass through and make it to the players after officer compensation and cost recovery, etc. This new company creates a huge siphoning opportunity for the company and PIF to keep as much of the money as they want and reduce the amount that makes it to the players.
It’s going to be like the NBA China relationship on steroids. Do you think if any players or announcers tweet something negative about Saudi Arabia there will be money withheld from the tour?
The Merger of LIV Golf and the PGA Tour: Here’s What to Know
NY Times article explaining the merger:
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- The PGA Tour would remain a nonprofit organization and would retain full control over how its tournaments are played.
- But all of the PGA Tour’s commercial business and rights — such as the extremely lucrative rights to televise its tournaments — would be owned by a new, still to be named for-profit entity that is currently called “NewCo.”
- NewCo will also own LIV as well as the commercial and business rights of the DP World Tour.
- The board of directors for the new for-profit entity would be led by Yasir al-Rumayyan, who is the governor of the Public Investment Fund and also oversees LIV.
- Three other members of the board’s executive committee would be current members of the PGA Tour’s board, and the tour would appoint the majority of the board and hold a majority voting interest, effectively controlling it.
- For the rest of 2023, all the tours will remain separate, and all their tournaments will continue as scheduled.
The Saudi Public Investment Fund is the sole invester in NewCo:
Quote:
The Public Investment Fund will invest “billions,” according to its governor, al-Rumayyan, into the new for-profit entity. It will also hold “the exclusive right to further invest in the new entity, including a right of first refusal on any capital that may be invested in the new entity, including into the PGA Tour, LIV Golf and DP World Tour,” according to the release announcing the agreement.
If the Public Investment Fund invests more money, it will surely demand more board seats and greater voting rights, further tilting control of men’s professional golf toward the kingdom.
Some questions that Jay Monahan wouldn't answer:
Quote:
Will LIV continue to exist as a separate golf league?
“I don’t want to make any statements or make any predictions.”
Will LIV golfers go back to the PGA Tour and DP World Tour?
“We will work cooperatively to establish a fair and objective process for any players who desire to reapply for membership with the PGA Tour or the DP World Tour,” Monahan wrote in a letter to players.
Will PGA Tour players, many of whom spurned LIV and its huge paydays, receive compensation? Will LIV players somehow be forced to give up the money they were guaranteed?
“I think those are all the serious conversations that we’re going to have,” Monahan told reporters.
Quote:
Can the players stop this from happening?
Possibly!
The agreement was negotiated in secret over seven weeks this spring. Most of the board, players, broadcast partners and others were left in the dark until the public announcement.
Monahan stressed that there was only a “framework agreement” and not a “definitive agreement,” with many details still to be decided. The definitive agreement will have to be voted on by the PGA Tour’s policy board, which is what it calls its board of directors.
The policy board is made up of five independent directors, including Ed Herlihy and Jimmy Dunne, who helped negotiate the deal. The board also includes five players: Patrick Cantlay, Charley Hoffman, Peter Malnati, Rory McIlroy and Webb Simpson.
If Wagner’s estimate is right that 90 percent of players oppose the merger, the vote could be difficult.
Quote:
Can anybody else stop the deal from going through?
The Justice Department, Federal Trade Commission or the European Commission could certainly try.
For about a year, the Justice Department has been investigating the tight-knit relationship between the PGA Tour and other powerful entities in golf. Among its questions is whether the organizations have exerted improper influence over the Official World Golf Rankings, which determine players’ eligibility for certain events and can be an important factor in their success and income.
As part of their deal, LIV and the PGA Tour agreed to drop their dueling lawsuits, but doing so would not necessarily change the Justice Department’s inquiry. If there were any illegal conduct by the PGA Tour, a merger would not prevent the PGA Tour from being punished for it.
“The announcement of a merger doesn’t forgive past sins,” said Bill Baer, who led the Justice Department’s antitrust division during the Obama administration.
The federal government, through the Justice Department and the F.T.C., also reviews more than 1,000 mergers for approval each year, and the European Commission reviews them for the European Union. Without a definitive agreement, it is not clear whether this might be the type of combination regulators could block or whether they would try to do so.
Joseph LaMagna brought this up first: What if this deal gets blocked by the DOJ for violating antitrust laws when that was why the two entities were in a lawsuit in the first place? Could that happen? It's certainly possible. And now, ironically, some of the Tour's arguments against LIV might be used against the Tour itself.
Quote:
Chris Murphy
@ChrisMurphyCT
So weird. PGA officials were in my office just months ago talking about how the Saudis' human rights record should disqualify them from having a stake in a major American sport.
I guess maybe their concerns weren't really about human rights?
Two ways to look at how this played out:
Quote:
1) However, there's a different way to look at this, if you choose. As Michael Rosenberg wrote, Monahan effectively ended LIV as an entity and simultaneously brought about a windfall to his league. In other words, the PIF paid the PGA Tour for LIV Golf to go away as a direct competitor.
2) That's pretty wild, but it was also unnecessary. Remember: The PIF has reportedly been trying to give the PGA Tour money for years, and Monahan either didn't have the foresight to see this is how it would end, or he really believed in his own ability to take a stand until the chips were truly down and the DOJ was bucking its head against him.
What happens to the LIV players when they reapply for PGA Tour membership?
Quote:
Dan Rapaport reported Tuesday that LIV players will be fined if and when they reapply for PGA Tour membership. OK, but is Mickelson going to be fined $200 million? Surely not. How is that going to sit with everyone who chose not to go?
Is LIV Golf going away?
Quote:
This is a big question. The three tours -- PGA Tour, DP World Tour and LIV Golf -- have been aligned under this new for-profit entity in which Monahan will be the CEO and Al-Rumayyan will serve as executive chairman. Monahan said in a memo to players Tuesday that the LIV Golf schedule will go on as planned for 2023 before they "conduct a comprehensive evaluation of LIV Golf and determine how best to integrate team golf into the professional game." In a press conference with the media later Tuesday, he was equally as evasive about LIV's future.
One LIV player with whom I spoke Tuesday said they are all waiting to hear how this will work out. Will the Tour keep LIV around, turn it into something else or just swipe the team concept altogether and apply it to both its PGA Tour and DP World Tour golf? All of that remains to be seen, and perhaps the biggest on-the-course question all of this raises is how these three (or maybe just two) leagues will coexist and interact.
"I can't see that scenario," said Monahan about LIV Golf running events concurrent to PGA Tour tournaments, "but I haven't gotten into the full evaluation, full empirical evaluation of LIV that I'm going to do to be able to comment on that. But I don't see that scenario, no. To me, any scenarios that you're thinking about that bridge between the PGA Tour and LIV would be longer term in nature."
Last edited by LongBeachPoly on Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:18 am; edited 1 time in total
The PGA has the means to wait out LIV as LIV is bleeding epic amounts of money. The only explanation is that they were afraid of the ramifications of the lawsuits. There was reportedly some heated disagreement about evidence for the discovery process. The PGA must have a lot to hide.
Yup:
Quote:
The PGA Tour found itself in a bad spot legally, whether due to the merits of the case or what might be uncovered by opening its books to the Department of Justice in discovery as the DOJ also considered antitrust allegations. (You can bet the PIF and its leaders had no interest in similar exposure.)
Perhaps Monahan realized the PIF could make the PGA Tour bleed money as long as it wanted given its endless reserves, and even if LIV Golf was without momentum or foreseeable growth, settling became a more attractive option.
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