Lakers Salary Cap / CBA Q&A (please see pg 17 for 2024 offseason projections)

[LaxT]

Beasley and Bamba--
Either they are traded before the pick-up deadline, or let go. Too expensive to keep as trade folder. Would be a huge investment if combined to acquire somebody expensive.

Walker--
Up to 7.77 M with maximum 20% raise.

Shroeder--
Maybe offered more than 5M in the market, or maybe not. I doubt the team can find a better fit with the tpmle.

Gabriel and TBJ --
Lakers have ebr of Gabriel. I wouldn't mind keeping one or both for slightly more than the minimum.

2nd round exception--
It stops players from skipping the 2nd round. Somebody like AR would much less likely ask teams to not draft him.

Apron--
I feel surprised the players agreed to a fixed amount above the tax line. 17.5M will not be much due to inflation

Least change roster with V's numbers

1. Bron 47.6m
2. AD 40.6m
3. DLo 25m
4. Rui 15m
5. Reaves 12.4m
6. Walker 7.77 m
7. Schro? 5m
8. Vando 4.7m
9. MaxC 1.7m
10. 2023 17th overall pick 3.7m
11. 2023 47th overall pick 2.1m (via new 2nd round rookie exception)
12. Gabriel 2.4M
13. TBJ 2.4M
14. Vet min 2m

Total 172.4M
It's close to the 1st apron and maybe the FO will try to stay under.

I am not saying the team should keep as many as possible. Just a starting point to examine where the team might go. As usual, a competitive roster requires money.

Beasley and Bamba trade feels like pipe dream because it would exceed the 2nd apron. However, one of them plus #17 pick is feasible for a player around 12M if Jeanie is willing to pay the added tax. That is the most feasible way to add somebody good.

[Bron2AD]

Can the Lakers trade Beaseley and Bamba without picking their options?

[vasashi17+]

^Nope.

When it comes to trades, think of it as only guaranteed money on established deals can be used in aggregation. Any nonguaranteed portion of salary, picks, player rights, cash and exceptions (ie TPEs) can’t be aggregated.
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[Bron2AD]

[vasashi17+]

^No worries!

FYI: I’ll be writing up a *sigh* offseason primer soon…sooner than I would’ve liked 😕
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[vasashi17+]

2023 OFFSZN PRIMER

Please present in this thread any questions, inquiries, corrections, requests (like examples to illustrate a point) that are not addressed below and either I or a fellow caphead will get to it. Thx!

So what are the numbers that we looking at for the 2023/24 season?

Note: we don’t know the official numbers yet, but the most current salary cap projections reflect an 8.4% increase from this season; it could go as high as 10% and imho is likely to; therefore that max 10% projection is displayed below & individual player amounts are also found further below within the sample cap sheets

Key resources
Cap: 136m
Tax: 165m
1st Apron: 172m
2nd Apron: 182.5m
tpMLE: 5m for up to 2yrs
-using it triggers 2nd Apron, which effectively hardcaps a team at 182.5m
ntpMLE: 12.4m for up to 4yrs
-using it triggers 1st Apron, which effectively hardcaps a team at 172m
BAE: 4.5m for up to 2yrs
-using it triggers 1st Apron & can’t be used in consecutive seasons
roomMLE: 7.7m for up to 3 years
2nd Round exception: 1.8m - 2m based respectively on either an up to 3 or 4 year deal with final year being team option
35% max (10+ seasoned player): 47.6m
30% max (7-9 seasoned player): 40.8m
25% max (0-6 seasoned player): 34m
Vet min: 2m (only 2 seasoned player cap hit applies w/ difference paid by the league)

What triggers the aprons?

1st Apron Triggers:
•Acquiring a S&t’d player
•Using ntpMLE
•Using BAE
•Aggregation of player(s) in trade using 125% multiplier
•Signing “buyout” player during the season that had a previous contract salary greater than the given ntpMLE value for that season
•Using TPE to trade for player in a non-simultaneous trade (does not apply till ‘24 offseason)

2nd Apron Triggers:
•Using tpMLE
•Aggregation of players in trade (using 110% multiplier towards the 2023/24 season only, otherwise nothing in excess of an 100% multiplier)
•Sending out a S&t’d player and/or trading for a player that was previously used as an outgoing S&t’d player (does not apply till ‘24 offseason)
•Use of cash in a trade (does not apply till ‘24 offseason)
•Use of a FRP 7 years out in a trade (does not apply till ‘24 offseason)

Would trading for Trae or any other max star player already on an established deal hardcap us at any of the aprons?

No; but it will cost ownership a pretty penny in taxes due to us potentially being a repeat tax offender due to having 3max players on our books

When do the new tax laws come into effect?

The new more punitive tax laws will begin to apply towards the 2025/26 season. This means teams will have 2 seasons (the 2023/24 & 2024/25 seasons) to get their cap affairs in order. New tax bands are displayed below and note that 10m above the tax line (ie the 3rd tax band) reflects far more punitive tax rates

[dont_be_a_wuss]

Minimum roster holds are about $1.5M per spot right? The amount of a 2nd year veterans minimum? With LeBron, AD, Christie, #17 and 8 minimum charges, that’s like $20M or less in cap space isn’t it? How are people getting to $30M are they forgetting the minimum roster charges?

[vasashi17+]

^Okay, I believe I know where you’re mixing up certain aspects…

So the 2yr seasoned minimum amount applies towards the cap hits on players signed by the vet min exception pertaining to luxury tax & hard cap math.

So for example, let’s say a 10yr seasoned vet signs a vet min deal with a capped out team via the vet min exception, then their minimum annual amount would pay them 2.91m. However on that team’s cap sheet, the cap hit would only reflect a 1.84m annual (that the team is responsible for) with the difference of 1.07m being paid to the player by the league.

For instance, that 1.84m amount is the cap hit that Schro had applied to our books this year towards taxes. However is a 9yr seasoned vet, dude was paid a total of 2.64m where that 800k difference was paid to him by the league while we were responsible for paying him 1.84m & the associated taxes that applied off that amount.

Heading into this 2023 offseason, since the scaled 2yr seasoned amount for last season was 1.84m on a 123.66m salary cap, the scaled vet min for this 2023/24 season will be projected to be about 2.02m on a 136m salary cap.

As for the incomplete roster (IR) charge, that is the “caphold” that must take place for up to 12 roster spots on the cap sheet of a team operating with cap space. That IR charge is based off what a rookie (0yrs of experience) would get paid for that given year. So for instance, MaxC made 1.02m this year as a rookie min and that would be the amount applied during the 2022 offseason towards a team that operated with cap space. So let’s say last summer that a team had 8 players accounting for 90m in guaranteed money on their books and needed to calculate how much max cap space they could offer towards one free agent. That would mean 4 IR charges (at 1.02m per) would apply a total of 4.08m towards their books that already contains 90m in salaries on it. So on a 123.66m salary cap for this season, that team last summer would have had 29.58m in potential cap space to offer that one free agent.

So applying that same principle to us this this summer, the IR charge is scaled to be about 1.12m if the salary cap comes in at 136m (as I expect it would), then that is not only the amount we can offer a player that goes undrafted this summer (recall there is a new 2nd round exception now), but that too wound be the amount each IT charge would be if we operate as a team with cap space this summer.

So for example, if we purge our books this summer to reflect only Bron (47.6m scaled as the amount on a max extension of the salary cap ends up being 136m), AD (40.6m), MaxC (1.7m) and #17 (3.7m), then aggregated those 4 players + 8 IR charges (@ 1.12m per) would lead to a team salary of 102.56m…and with a 136m salary cap, that would mean we would have 33.44m in cap space to offer one single free agent, or break that amount up among multiple free agents. Also, just to be comprehensive, that figure is assuming we traded Vando into another team’s cap space for nothing in return. If we end up waiving him, then dude has 300k guaranteed to him which would lead to a dead cap hit in that amount, meaning we would only have 33.14m in cap space to offer under that scenario.

Sorry for the confusion and I hope that clears up any questions pertaining to those amounts.
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[A Mad Chinaman]

Excellent and Mind-Boggling Amount of Information Breakdown!!!

Question:
Based on Woj's analysis that Celtics' should extend Jalen Brown because he is a much move valuable and tradeable asset, compared to just letting him walk, does this simplistic path applies to DLo?

Basketball-wise - it provides an opportunity for DLo to change his habits and actually expand his game while providing the Lakers' continuity that is the hallmark of the Nuggets and Heat?
Finance-wise - it provides opportunity to trade for a player that has a similar contract plus 10% (????) if things don't work out
Note: Could the same equation apply to Beasley and Bamba?

Maybe AR will accept a shorter term contract (2-3 years) with a player's option that provide him the ability to maximize his career.

Maybe Rob can figure out a way to have LBJ, AD, AR and Rui's contract expire at the same time. This would provide clarity for all involved while providing continuity with the players that are strategic to the continued growth of this team

[Hanging from Rafters]

There are imo 12 players…based on fan feedback and success without a training camp…that seem most desirable and feasible to bring back:

AD-40/Mo-2vm
Rui-12/Gabe-2vm
LBJ-47/Vandi-4.5/TBjr-2vm
AR-12/LW4-7.5/MaxC-1.7
Dlo-22/Schro-5tpMLE

= $157.7mil (above cap but below 1st apron)

What would be the difference in the cost between:

—option on Beasley-16.5 to use in a trade assuming 110% multiplier to bring back up to 18.15 = total 175.85 (above 1st apron below 2nd);

vs

—declining Beasley’s option and signing our draft picks to stay below 1st apron at 163.7 (this assumes 10% cap increase so 1st apron 165);

???

I’m trying to think like an owner to see if it makes financial sense to run it back with our draft picks without Beasley or would it be worth it to use those picks in a trade with Beasley to upgrade the roster with a player making up to 18mil.
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“When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.”

[vasashi17+]

^Yeah HfR, you’re not alone in thinking ownership could look to minimize, if not completely duck, a tax bill by running the team (mostly) back next season…

1. Bron 47.6m
2. AD 40.6m
3. DLo 20m (via full bird for up to a 5yr deal)
4. Rui 15m (via full bird for up to a 5yr deal)
5. Reaves 12.4m (via early bird max for up to a 4yr deal)
6. Schro 9.2m (via partial ntpMLE on up to a 4yr deal)
7. Vando 4.7m
8. MaxC 1.7m
9. 2023 17th overall pick 3.7m
10. 2023 47th overall pick 2.1m (via new 2nd round rookie exception)
11. Vet min (TBJr?) 2m
12. Vet min (Gabriel?) 2m
13. Vet min (Mo?) 2m
14. Vet min 2m (or ShaqH on a nonguaranteed 2.4m)
= 165m in team salary; no tax bill; soft reset towards repeater tax, with full reset if we sick the tax again for the 2024/25 season.

Personally, I rather they pay a tax and hold onto salary fodder to open up more possibilities in constructing a competitive roster, extracting that last bit of the Bron/AD win-dow, before it shuts.
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[Hanging from Rafters]

[Hanging from Rafters]

[tox]

Bringing back Russell, LW4, and Schroder is just asking Ham to play more 3 guard lineups. Unless Vando learns to shoot 3s and can be come a 25-30 mpg player in the playoffs

[gng930]

So if we don't guarantee Mo's contract do we still retain any Bird rights?
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Luxury Tax/FA Spreadsheet (Save to your Google Drive to edit)

[gng930]

[Hanging from Rafters]

[gng930]

Yeah ultimately you need players whose regular season success translates into more reliable playoff production and playability. There were times where Darvin struggled to field 5 of those guys. I heard a former coach once joke that he played 6-7 players in a game 7 but he maybe trusted only 4 of them. If it doesn't happen in the summer, maybe you just flip them later once you've milked them for most of the regular season. Obviously chemistry/continuity take a hit though.
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Luxury Tax/FA Spreadsheet (Save to your Google Drive to edit)

[vasashi17+]

[Hanging from Rafters]

Passing on Beasley, this projection brings back everyone else including LWIV or -Replaced by CP3. If LWIV 7m is replaced by CP3 2m vet min saving $5mil it could be used to increase Rui and Shro.

1. Bron 47.6m
2. AD 40.6m
3. DLo 20m
4. Rui 12m+0.7=12.7m (4/60 @10%^/yr)
5. Reaves 12m
6. LWIV 7m(partial ntpMLE)-Replaced by CP3 2m(vet min)-7m=-5m
7. Schro 5m(partial ntpMLE)+4.3m=9.3m (3/30 @10%^/yr)
8. Vandi 4.7m
9. Mo 4.5(BAE)
10. FRP 3.7m
11. 2ndRP 2.1m
12. Gabe 2m(vet min)
13. TBjr 2m(vet min)
14. MaxC 1.7m

164.9m…no tax with soft reset of repeater penalty.

AD/Mo
Rui/Gabe
LBJ/Vandi/TBjr
AR/Dlo/Max
Shro/LWIV-Replaced by CP3 (LWIV SG and Dlo PG if no CP3)

+ #17FRP and 2ndRP
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“When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.”

[vasashi17+]

New CBA Term Sheet for 2023/24 Transitional Season & Beyond

[gng930]

Seems more and more like the NBAPA got hosed. Feels like the first apron is going to become a hard-ish cap with those new lux-tax tiers in 2025. With the repeater tax also being heavier, I imagine many more will want to shy away from the luxury tax altogether. Will all those teams that historically banked on lux-tax shares start to feel the financial hit?

For the players though it comes down to BRI share so we'll just have to see how that is ultimately impacted. I have a hard team believing that won't become an issue. The average team payroll this season was $157 million for players. Now imagine if the vast majority of teams were compelled to duck the lux-tax altogether and the average payroll was closer to $150 million which is an almost 5% decrease. By doing some simple math, that probably drops the players' BRI share from 50-51% where it might be now to well below 49%. I imagine the players will be cut a check to compensate for that? Maybe players making the max are excluded from that and that's how you mitigate the middle class getting squeezed out which is typically an unintended effect.
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Luxury Tax/FA Spreadsheet (Save to your Google Drive to edit)

[KBandKB]

Is this legal under the new rules:

1. Bron 47.6m
2. AD 40.6m
3. DLo 21m
4. Rui 14m
5. Reaves 12.4m
6. Royce O’neale 9.5m
7. Naz Reid 8.5m (part of the ntpMLE)
8. Vando 4.7m
9. Josh Rich 3.5m (part of the ntpMLE)
10: MaxC 1.7m
11. 22nd overall pick 3m
12. 47th overall pick 2m
13. CP3 2m
14. Vet min 2m

Total:172.5 (I think I’m over the first apron by just a tad)

[vasashi17+]

@G: Nate & Larry both had another follow up pod on the new CBA and I believe Larry said that in this new CBA, the cap will never decrease year to year and will continue to smooth out the cap, since annual rises can’t be any higher than 10% from year to year.

https://nateduncannba.com/podcast-episodes/into-the-2023-cba-weeds-with-larry-coon/

When you also consider the extension rate increases (120% to 140% and in the case of extend&trades, going from 105% to 120%), also the bump in the ntpMLE & roomMLE amounts, as well as all the investment possibilities & player funds that are now allowed in the CBA, it seems the player share in BRI will continue to hover closer to 51% rather than 49%. Imho the players will be just fine, although free spending got that much more punitive in this new iteration of the CBA.

I do agree with you however that the 1st Apron will look more & more like the hard cap line where the majority of teams/franchises won’t look to willingly venture past even tho they still have roughly 10.5m more in wiggle before the more punitive 2nd Apron.

@2(KB): I’m assuming you swapped out Mo/#17’s higher caphold for Royce/#21’s lower caphold & then also considering those price points breaking down in that way, your cap sheet would work if it remains capped at no greater than 172m.

Just remember that in using the ntpMLE (even if divvying it up and/or having an unused portion remain) will trigger the 1st Apron hardcap, so we would be unable to venture even a mere 500k past that 172m figure in team salary. Also note, that even before CP3’s guaranteed portions were amended to make the trade matching math work, dude had 15.8m guaranteed to him no matter what. And since that amount is greater than whatever the ntpMLE will come out to this year, he would be considered a buyout candidate that triggers the 1st Apron, even if signed on a lowly vet min deal during the season. Recall that teams above the 1st Apron cannot sign these certain “buyout candidates”, so if we do end up getting CP3 on a vet min deal after waivers that 172m in team salary becomes our hard cap! That being said, I'm not certain if the hard cap would be triggered if he is bought out during the offseason, but I'm sure we'll soon find out.
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[vasashi17+]

Bound to happen..