Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 34308 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:06 pm Post subject: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills film crew member with prop gun (UPDATE: charged with involuntary manslaughter)
This is still unfolding, andI have been reading some accounts from people on set because I am acquainted with someone who was on set. It sounds familiar to what happened to Brandon Lee.
The idea of Baldwin being criminally charged is highly unlikely. There are very strict protocols in place in regards to how weapons are handled on set. There's a chain of command in who is responsible for appropriately prepping and presenting a gun for use by anyone else. Ultimately, the property master in charge of the weapon is the one responsible for making sure that the weapon is either rendered safe, or is being handled appropriately.
There's an outside chance that Baldwin violated that chain of command, but even if so, responsibility will likely fall upon the property department person in charge of the gun. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
This is still unfolding, andI have been reading some accounts from people on set because I am acquainted with someone who was on set. It sounds familiar to what happened to Brandon Lee.
The idea of Baldwin being criminally charged is highly unlikely. There are very strict protocols in place in regards to how weapons are handled on set. There's a chain of command in who is responsible for appropriately prepping and presenting a gun for use by anyone else. Ultimately, the property master in charge of the weapon is the one responsible for making sure that the weapon is either rendered safe, or is being handled appropriately.
There's an outside chance that Baldwin violated that chain of command, but even if so, responsibility will likely fall upon the property department person in charge of the gun.
Criminal charges, no. Lawsuit(s)...? _________________ Under New Management
This is still unfolding, andI have been reading some accounts from people on set because I am acquainted with someone who was on set. It sounds familiar to what happened to Brandon Lee.
The idea of Baldwin being criminally charged is highly unlikely. There are very strict protocols in place in regards to how weapons are handled on set. There's a chain of command in who is responsible for appropriately prepping and presenting a gun for use by anyone else. Ultimately, the property master in charge of the weapon is the one responsible for making sure that the weapon is either rendered safe, or is being handled appropriately.
There's an outside chance that Baldwin violated that chain of command, but even if so, responsibility will likely fall upon the property department person in charge of the gun.
I don’t know how prop weapons work. Why would they give someone a prop weapon that could actually kill someone? Seems irresponsible. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
This is still unfolding, andI have been reading some accounts from people on set because I am acquainted with someone who was on set. It sounds familiar to what happened to Brandon Lee.
The idea of Baldwin being criminally charged is highly unlikely. There are very strict protocols in place in regards to how weapons are handled on set. There's a chain of command in who is responsible for appropriately prepping and presenting a gun for use by anyone else. Ultimately, the property master in charge of the weapon is the one responsible for making sure that the weapon is either rendered safe, or is being handled appropriately.
There's an outside chance that Baldwin violated that chain of command, but even if so, responsibility will likely fall upon the property department person in charge of the gun.
Criminal charges, no. Lawsuit(s)...?
That for sure. It will all come down to whether the person responsible for prepping the gun made a mistake, or whether protocols were broken after the fact. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
This is still unfolding, andI have been reading some accounts from people on set because I am acquainted with someone who was on set. It sounds familiar to what happened to Brandon Lee.
The idea of Baldwin being criminally charged is highly unlikely. There are very strict protocols in place in regards to how weapons are handled on set. There's a chain of command in who is responsible for appropriately prepping and presenting a gun for use by anyone else. Ultimately, the property master in charge of the weapon is the one responsible for making sure that the weapon is either rendered safe, or is being handled appropriately.
There's an outside chance that Baldwin violated that chain of command, but even if so, responsibility will likely fall upon the property department person in charge of the gun.
I don’t know how prop weapons work. Why would they give someone a prop weapon that could actually kill someone? Seems irresponsible.
Blanks actually have a soft projectile. It's a piece of wadding that is in place to make the "blank" cartridge fire. It's considered safe, but if someone is too close when it is discharged, it can cause lethal damage.
As an editor who has CGI'd gun fire in the past, I'm stunned that they still go with blanks. I get why they want authenticity for the practical effect, but I'm not sure it's worth the risk these days. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Joined: 02 Jan 2012 Posts: 11748 Location: The Two One Three
Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:55 pm Post subject:
What? Craziest ish I've heard in a while...and that's saying something. Major Crow vibes. _________________ The butter's hard and the eggs are chillin' in the dark.
Damn, that's awful poor crew member just trying to do his job gets offed by a prop gun. My condolences to his friends and family. There should be stricter protocols for prop weapons used on sets.
Damn, that's awful poor crew member just trying to do his job gets offed by a prop gun. My condolences to his friends and family. There should be stricter protocols for prop weapons used on sets.
It was a woman - Director of Photography.
Quote:
Director of photography Halyna Hutchins, 42, was transported to the hospital via helicopter and pronounced dead by medical personnel at University of New Mexico Hospital, according to the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office.
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 51319 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:34 am Post subject:
panamaniac wrote:
Damn, that's awful poor crew member just trying to do his job gets offed by a prop gun. My condolences to his friends and family. There should be stricter protocols for prop weapons used on sets.
My wife works in production. There are very strict protocols in place in regards to who has access, when and how. Someone clearly broke those. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Damn, that's awful poor crew member just trying to do his job gets offed by a prop gun. My condolences to his friends and family. There should be stricter protocols for prop weapons used on sets.
It was a woman - Director of Photography.
Quote:
Director of photography Halyna Hutchins, 42, was transported to the hospital via helicopter and pronounced dead by medical personnel at University of New Mexico Hospital, according to the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office.
Terrible tragedy. _________________ Under New Management
One article is saying he "accidentally fired" the gun. Wonder what that means?
Quote:
Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was killed and director Joel Souza was injured Thursday after star and producer Baldwin, 63, accidentally misfired a prop gun at the Bonanza Creek Ranch set in New Mexico. Upon further investigation, the local sheriff's department learned that Hutchins, 42, and Souza, 48, were "shot when a prop firearm was discharged" by Baldwin.
I wonder if this happened in the middle of a scene because it'd be weird how the Director and the Cinematographer were hit. I'd imagine they'd be behind the camera and the gun wouldn't be pointed at them.
According to Debra Messing, it was used in a scene. Now, I don't think she was actually there, so I don't know where she's getting her info at.
Quote:
"It is absolutely NOT. A prop gun was handed to him. He used it in the scene. Then- a catastrophic event happened where Halnya [sic] Hutchins lost her life and Joel Souza was injured. I am praying for all of their families," wrote Messing.
Baldwin's spokesperson says he fired blanks:
Quote:
A spokesperson for Baldwin said there was an accident on the set involving the misfire of a prop gun with blanks.
Seems that it was either: (1) an accidental discharge or (2) intentional discharge of a gun firing (supposed blanks)
Quote:
Accidental discharges or guns firing blanks have been blamed for deaths in past movie productions.
Last edited by LongBeachPoly on Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:57 am; edited 2 times in total
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 51319 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:52 am Post subject:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
panamaniac wrote:
Damn, that's awful poor crew member just trying to do his job gets offed by a prop gun. My condolences to his friends and family. There should be stricter protocols for prop weapons used on sets.
It was a woman - Director of Photography.
Quote:
Director of photography Halyna Hutchins, 42, was transported to the hospital via helicopter and pronounced dead by medical personnel at University of New Mexico Hospital, according to the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office.
Terrible tragedy.
And very preventable. The head of Local 44 (which includes prop masters) said in an email to its members that it was a "live" round and that the prop master on set was non-union. There's an instagram account from someone on the movie who has been complaining about the excessive hours and working conditions in the days before this incident. And Baldwin himself has deleted his account after he posted several things about being exhausted. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90138 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:04 am Post subject:
This sounds very strange. While the wadding from a blank could kill at close range, hard to imagine any normal blank component being able to go through two people. I’m wondering if they were using dummy as opposed to blank rounds for visual purposes of the close up shot on the gun (similar to the Crow) and somehow someone got a live round in there.
Edit, see that Mule heard that might be the case. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
It's just applied physics. Even though the wad has a relatively small mass, the muzzle velocity at short range is extremely dangerous. From what I understand handguns are typically aimed well outside (upstage) of the targeted actor, to the outside from where the cameras are filming. Being that cameras are one-eyed, the lack of depth perception makes it look like the handgun is being aimed directly at the targeted actor.
Handguns are pretty safe and not prone to accidental discharge, other than a misfire or hangfire which but rarely happens. If that's the case you're supposed to keep the muzzle away from harm's way and wait for the potentially delayed ignition of the gunpowder. My guess is that either Baldwin didn't aim properly or perhaps he didn't realize (wasn't properly trained) as to what to do in the event of a hangfire.
As firearms experts, writers and producers wondered aloud how this happened, there’s a renewed spotlight on prop guns, their history in film and TV, and why firearms are still showing up on set. While some producers insist on using prop guns with blanks to closely capture the sound and look of a real gun firing, others have been calling for them to be banished from film sets, saying that computer-generated imaging offers a safer alternative.
“There’s no reason to have guns loaded with blanks or anything on set anymore,” tweeted director Craig Zobel, whose credits include the 2020 film “The Hunt” and HBO’s “Mare of Easttown.” “Should just be fully outlawed. There’s computers now.”
Juan Rios, a spokesperson for the Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office, said detectives are investigating what type of projectile discharged from the prop gun, as well as how many firearms were on set and how they were handled. Rios said he expects the sheriff’s office will have more information early next week.
On Friday, Baldwin tweeted, expressing his condolences to Hutchins' family and calling the shooting an accident.
“There are no words to convey my shock and sadness regarding the tragic accident that took the life of Halyna Hutchins, a wife, mother and deeply admired colleague of ours. I’m fully cooperating with the police investigation,” he wrote on Twitter. “My heart is broken for her husband, their son, and all who knew and loved Halyna.”
As firearms experts, writers and producers wondered aloud how this happened, there’s a renewed spotlight on prop guns, their history in film and TV, and why firearms are still showing up on set. While some producers insist on using prop guns with blanks to closely capture the sound and look of a real gun firing, others have been calling for them to be banished from film sets, saying that computer-generated imaging offers a safer alternative.
“There’s no reason to have guns loaded with blanks or anything on set anymore,” tweeted director Craig Zobel, whose credits include the 2020 film “The Hunt” and HBO’s “Mare of Easttown.” “Should just be fully outlawed. There’s computers now.”
Juan Rios, a spokesperson for the Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office, said detectives are investigating what type of projectile discharged from the prop gun, as well as how many firearms were on set and how they were handled. Rios said he expects the sheriff’s office will have more information early next week.
There really is no reason to have gunfire as a practical effect on set. Years ago I was the VFX editor on an Antoine Fuqua pilot that involved lots of gunfire. I comped in all the muzzle flashes over the practical ones, thus making them unnecessary in the first place. And sonically, practical gunfire is always replaced with enhanced sound effects on the dub stage. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
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