Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22883 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
Posted: Sat May 04, 2024 11:12 am Post subject:
Halflife wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
Halflife wrote:
Wilbon had an interesting perspective on firing
Stuff like "Darvin Ham is a helluva coach.." tells me I don't need to listen to rest of what they have to say, just like they didn't need to watch our basketball games, which they obviously didn't.
stats don't lie. He took a lottery team to the WCF finals. Only team to ever beat a Hamm coached team in the playoffs are the nuggets.
I know reality is tough, especially when he wants players to be held accountable. On the to 4th in 6.
SMH. You sound exactly like the Wilbon video I'm criticizing. You don't sound like someone who actually watched the game, but summarize narratives and cliffnotes.
The narrative that Ham is just being scapegoated and is a "he'll of a coach" is blatantly ignoring all the mistakes he made with the rotation and lineups and absolving him just trying to blame the players. Which is what the media always does unless it fits their narrative to blame a coach like it was with D'Antoni. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144588 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sat May 04, 2024 12:03 pm Post subject:
MJST wrote:
The narrative that Ham is just being scapegoated and is a "he'll of a coach" is blatantly ignoring all the mistakes he made with the rotation and lineups and absolving him just trying to blame the players. Which is what the media always does unless it fits their narrative to blame a coach like it was with D'Antoni.
Ham made a lot of coaching mistakes, I don’t see how anyone could argue differently. The roster was unbalanced and lacked two-way players. Both statements can be true. Considering those two concepts, the team finished up where they probably should have, I always thought they were the 5-8 best team in the West. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
With all these talking heads talking him up we should see all these teams fighting over getting him to be their head coach, right? I feel less bad about firing him if he's going to be getting work. Would be nice to be able to go up against him, too. I bet he actually would prepare for that game
The narrative that Ham is just being scapegoated and is a "he'll of a coach" is blatantly ignoring all the mistakes he made with the rotation and lineups and absolving him just trying to blame the players. Which is what the media always does unless it fits their narrative to blame a coach like it was with D'Antoni.
Ham made a lot of coaching mistakes, I don’t see how anyone could argue differently. The roster was unbalanced and lacked two-way players. Both statements can be true. Considering those two concepts, the team finished up where they probably should have, I always thought they were the 5-8 best team in the West.
The Lakers most likely would have beaten every team in a 7 game series except Denver and possibly Minnesota.
They beat the rest of the them. So no, they weren’t the 5-8 best team in the west. They ran into a buzz saw in the first round, unfortunately.
But Ham deserved what he got. His rotations and inability to manage his own roster/evaluate his own players are two of the most important qualities for a head coach and he was miserable at both of them.
Record against teams that finished above the Lakers 10-17.
That is Ham's record against good teams that finished above the Lakers. He needs to own it as well.
To be fair, the kings finished below us and if you replace the kings with the pelicans(3-1), his record would be 13-14, and we are actually 3-1 vs the clippers, not 2-2, so his record is actually 14-13 against teams finished above which is actually great for the 7th seed.
This was not the reason he was fired, his coaching was not there at the time when we needed
His record was 7 wins 10 losses versus the Pacific Division and 27 wins with 25 losses against the entire Western Conference. That includes bottom feeders like Portland, Memphis and San Antonio. Not an inspiring record considering you have Lebron and AD for the vast majority of the season. _________________ Darvin Ham is an idiot!
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144588 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sat May 04, 2024 7:19 pm Post subject:
Reds622 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
MJST wrote:
The narrative that Ham is just being scapegoated and is a "he'll of a coach" is blatantly ignoring all the mistakes he made with the rotation and lineups and absolving him just trying to blame the players. Which is what the media always does unless it fits their narrative to blame a coach like it was with D'Antoni.
Ham made a lot of coaching mistakes, I don’t see how anyone could argue differently. The roster was unbalanced and lacked two-way players. Both statements can be true. Considering those two concepts, the team finished up where they probably should have, I always thought they were the 5-8 best team in the West.
The Lakers most likely would have beaten every team in a 7 game series except Denver and possibly Minnesota.
They beat the rest of the them. So no, they weren’t the 5-8 best team in the west. They ran into a buzz saw in the first round, unfortunately.
But Ham deserved what he got. His rotations and inability to manage his own roster/evaluate his own players are two of the most important qualities for a head coach and he was miserable at both of them.
I don’t engage in fictional results, the facts are right there in front of us. Ignore them if it makes you feel better. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29653 Location: La La Land
Posted: Sat May 04, 2024 7:23 pm Post subject:
lakersfever714 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
At least 1 of our many past problems is now fixed.
Not yet. We can't assume that the next HC would be better than Ham though. Lets wait and see first.
Good call I edited it. A new coach could be worse. But the fear of that, isn't enough reason to keep Ham.
Now lets make sure we get a coach and coaching philosophy that matches a new roster (that can beat Denver).
Vogel would be best qualified since he's proven he could beat the Nuggets with a good roster like this, assuming Ishbia fires Vogel since he wasn't too thrilled with the Suns early playoff exit.
I doubt we'd rehire him. But in a vacuum. Vogel isn't a bad option. You'd just have to make sure you have a defensive roster with him. Otherwise, you saw what happened this playoffs. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
The narrative that Ham is just being scapegoated and is a "he'll of a coach" is blatantly ignoring all the mistakes he made with the rotation and lineups and absolving him just trying to blame the players. Which is what the media always does unless it fits their narrative to blame a coach like it was with D'Antoni.
Ham made a lot of coaching mistakes, I don’t see how anyone could argue differently. The roster was unbalanced and lacked two-way players. Both statements can be true. Considering those two concepts, the team finished up where they probably should have, I always thought they were the 5-8 best team in the West.
The Lakers most likely would have beaten every team in a 7 game series except Denver and possibly Minnesota.
They beat the rest of the them. So no, they weren’t the 5-8 best team in the west. They ran into a buzz saw in the first round, unfortunately.
But Ham deserved what he got. His rotations and inability to manage his own roster/evaluate his own players are two of the most important qualities for a head coach and he was miserable at both of them.
I don’t engage in fictional results, the facts are right there in front of us. Ignore them if it makes you feel better.
You can either evaluate talent/matchups or you can’t.
You can’t. We all know this already.
Does the #1 seed win every season? I guess using your logic we might as well not even have the playoffs. We can just award the trophy like soccer to the best record in the regular season. Maybe soccer is actually your thing.
At least 1 of our many past problems is now fixed.
Not yet. We can't assume that the next HC would be better than Ham though. Lets wait and see first.
Good call I edited it. A new coach could be worse. But the fear of that, isn't enough reason to keep Ham.
Now lets make sure we get a coach and coaching philosophy that matches a new roster (that can beat Denver).
Vogel would be best qualified since he's proven he could beat the Nuggets with a good roster like this, assuming Ishbia fires Vogel since he wasn't too thrilled with the Suns early playoff exit.
I doubt we'd rehire him. But in a vacuum. Vogel isn't a bad option. You'd just have to make sure you have a defensive roster with him. Otherwise, you saw what happened this playoffs.
Why not? If they genuinely believed they could win it again with Vogel, you don't think they'd set aside their differences and let bygones be bygones? I would do...many things in order to win a championship.
There's actually not a much better candidate than Vogel rn if he was available. We have a really decent team. We may look mediocre under Ham but the team is really decent. AD, Gabe and Vando are all solid defenders. I want to see Vogel coach the Lakers without Westbrick again. Westbrick really (bleep) things up.
Westbrick cost us 3 frp, KCP and Vogel. At least the Clippers got him which made me feel a bit better. _________________ Playoffs is good enough. - Jeanie Buss 2024
Joined: 17 Sep 2008 Posts: 21102 Location: In a white room, with black curtains near the station
Posted: Sun May 05, 2024 11:11 am Post subject:
I felt like firing Vogel was a mistake. Firing Ham wasn't. Inexperience. Poor roster decisions, lack of continuity, in-game adjustments lacking, team defense falling flat and losing leads in games that counted. At least Vogel could squeeze the best out of a defense and have them playing on a string, with the best coordination I've ever seen. Yeah role players make a difference too, Caruso and KCP were a big part of that title winning defense with otherworldly levels of scrap and hustle, but this year's squad was left guessing way too much on both ends of the floor, or whether they'd even see playing time. It's no mistake we won that title a couple years ago, and it's no mistake we're out in Round 1 this year, with the same superstar duo on the roster.
I hope Ham finds a young squad he can learn with, maybe he'll be a decent coach some day. Bad match for this Laker squad though.
BTW for all those in the media applauding Ham, the record when Ham coached the Lakers with Westbrook, AD, Lebron (And a younger better supporting cast of Reaves, Walker, Dennis) was 25-31.
Without the trades, the team doesn't sniff the play ins that year. The Lakers get many things wrong, but they very well knew deep down that the biggest reason the turnaround happened was the massive change with roster. Going from AD, Bron, Westbrook, Reaves core to a core that subbed out WB for players like Rui, DLO, Vanderbilt etc.
That said, it's true that the team in 22-23 was not better than the WCF they got to. No coach was getting them past the Nuggets that year. As for this year, absolutely this team was better than the 47 wins they end up. Based on AD/Bron's health and the depth they had. To me, that is what cost Ham his place. That he refused to see that he in fact made mistakes and the players were right. A few better decisions early on, we're at 51-53 wins and not having to face Denver in round 1. That to me is why Ham was shown the door.
BTW for all those in the media applauding Ham, the record when Ham coached the Lakers with Westbrook, AD, Lebron (And a younger better supporting cast of Reaves, Walker, Dennis) was 25-31.
Without the trades, the team doesn't sniff the play ins that year. The Lakers get many things wrong, but they very well knew deep down that the biggest reason the turnaround happened was the massive change with roster. Going from AD, Bron, Westbrook, Reaves core to a core that subbed out WB for players like Rui, DLO, Vanderbilt etc.
That said, it's true that the team in 22-23 was not better than the WCF they got to. No coach was getting them past the Nuggets that year. As for this year, absolutely this team was better than the 47 wins they end up. Based on AD/Bron's health and the depth they had. To me, that is what cost Ham his place. That he refused to see that he in fact made mistakes and the players were right. A few better decisions early on, we're at 51-53 wins and not having to face Denver in round 1. That to me is why Ham was shown the door.
but they made the trade and went to the WCF so what his record pre-trade was is irrelevant. Who says they were better than 47 wins? they were picked to win between 45-48 before season started. You're right bron and AD were healthy. That says just as much about them as it did hamm. _________________ Kobe.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Clw9scopegx/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 68056 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 8:16 am Post subject:
Bron2AD wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Stephen A. is 'a bit salty' about Darvin Ham getting fired by the Lakers | NBA Countdown
you can tell there is such a scarcity in media that we have to hear this loud mouth clown spewing garbage on national tv
Yeah there's scarcity. Not many sports talk show personalities make $12 million a year. Do you have an opinion on what he said? How about Wilbon and his opinion? _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 68056 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 8:49 am Post subject:
To much Kurt and Linda Rambis. Jeanie needs to look for someone with real knowledge of how to run a franchise. I don't know whose decision it was to choose the coaching staff but IMO it's a bad decision. The coach is handcuffed. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 68056 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 8:53 am Post subject:
ocho wrote:
Bron2AD wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Stephen A. is 'a bit salty' about Darvin Ham getting fired by the Lakers | NBA Countdown
you can tell there is such a scarcity in media that we have to hear this loud mouth clown spewing garbage on national tv
Never been a better time for the Guys-Shouting-Dumb-Opinions-At-People-Eating-Breakfast industry.
What opinions were dumb? What parts of Wilbon and SAS soliloquies do you disagree with? _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
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