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activeverb
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 Posted: Sat May 27, 2023 9:56 pm Post subject: Re: Bring this group back |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | If the Lakers think they can find a better prospect potential than Mo then go for it. If not, since a back up C is needed then target MO’s return on a cheaper contract. |
Assuming that he didn't have some sort of attitude issue or anything like that, sure. But really, he goes into the bin of backup centers looking for work. I'm not sure whether we would still have Bird rights if we waived him. Usually, the three-season requirement for Bird rights (or two seasons for Early Bird) requires that the player not have cleared waivers and have completed his prior contract. I don't know how that applies to this specific situation, but the waiver may erase our Bird rights. The point is that we may not have the ability to offer him a contract that is any different than we could offer to another free agent center. |
The Lakers have a team option on bamba. If they choose not to exercise the option, he will become an unrestricted free agent. However, the Lakers don't give up any rights or waive him by failing to exercise the option. |
There is no option for Bamba. The final year is just unguaranteed. The team option is for Beasley. |
, I didn't realize that. Yeah I don't know how his Bird right shake out in this situation |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 2:07 am Post subject: |
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In order for a 5 to actually play, he needs to be a game changer. I can't see this coaching staff value an ordinary rotational Center to start him.
We need to really invest and find someone who is of quality. Without that, they will likely just keep moving forward with AD at the 5. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 2:20 am Post subject: |
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On Bamba. I don't know. His market value a few years ago was above the average big body vet min you see the league is filled it. He definitely has talent for his size, he's not some project with no actual NBA level skill. I remember us looking at him many times via trade since 2020, and he has the length and size to fit in system where AD is the 4 and Lebron takes the weakest perimeter assignment.
But perhaps he is not that player anymore due to injuries. Because in theory, he is a shotblocking threat, and he is a 3 point making threat.
Last 2 years shot the 3 pointer well enough, and solid blocks per minute stats. I'm not sure we really schemed a system where he would have fit in. Now with a whole season, can you rely on Bamba for 15-17 minutes to give you a McGee style role? I think so. He fits better than McGee on offense because he can make 3s. His length with AD's length and speed, it would make a great interior defense with AD quick enough to move over and help defensively on 3 point shooters. When teams play super small, we just move AD to 5 if it isn't working.
Bamba must really have regressed or our coaching staff just doesn't want to invest time in developing a big with AD/Bron starting. I don't know for sure which it is but I'm leaning towards the coachiing staff doesn't value a big and AD as a tandem. I see this the same way I saw the Westbrook, Beverly, Dennis 3 guard stuff. Once Pelinka traded away WB/Bev, and got in some wing size with Vandy/Rui, he limited the options for what the coaching staff to do. They had a tendency to go small, but with the talent more heavy on wings (Lebron, Vandy, Rui) you saw less Bev/WB style lineups. Once Pelinka took away that option to go so guard heavy, the staff played more balanced lineups.
Same thing here, I don't feel Bamba is good enough where the staff will be enforced to play him next to AD. It easily could be justified to keep playing AD at the 5 and Bamba be the backup. So you need to go get a Bro Lopez/Myles Turner level big to force that to happen, an investment considerable enough where there would be some pressure to actually develop that. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | In order for a 5 to actually play, he needs to be a game changer. I can't see this coaching staff value an ordinary rotational Center to start him.
We need to really invest and find someone who is of quality. Without that, they will likely just keep moving forward with AD at the 5. |
I don't agree with that. During the middle of the season, Bryant played regular minutes. Heck, Gabriel played a lot of minutes over the course of the season.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Bamba must really have regressed or our coaching staff just doesn't want to invest time in developing a big with AD/Bron starting. I don't know for sure which it is but I'm leaning towards the coachiing staff doesn't value a big and AD as a tandem. |
Once again, I think your perception of the coaching staff is wrong. As for Bamba, I have a strong suspicion that he has an attitude problem, but I have no direct proof to support it. The circumstances raise red flags, though. As I said in the Bamba thread a few weeks ago, he may be Joe Barely Cares v. 2.0.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 3:48 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | In order for a 5 to actually play, he needs to be a game changer. I can't see this coaching staff value an ordinary rotational Center to start him.
We need to really invest and find someone who is of quality. Without that, they will likely just keep moving forward with AD at the 5. |
I don't agree with that. During the middle of the season, Bryant played regular minutes. Heck, Gabriel played a lot of minutes over the course of the season. |
There was no intention to develop any chemistry with either of them and AD. As I've said during the season, and it came to light to people only in the playoffs.
When you play AD full time at the 5, you are praying that the other side is much smaller than you. It worked against a depleted Grizz team and a 44 win Warriors team that had no size either. When we faced the Wolves in the play in game (and the Wolves aren't that good) or the Nuggets, the lack of huge advantage with AD was negated. This is where a coaching staff and even any roster development manager should be looking at.
What I have concerns about is we may end up like the Clips if we marry ourselves financially to this roster. This is exactly what the Clips did after their "glorious" WCF run in 2021. They re-signed a lot of players, put a lot of money into a team that in the end came up short.
Although Lebron/AD are proven winners (unlke the Kawhi/PG tandem), I do feel we should be very careful thinking this WCF will lead to a NBA title in the future by just some small moves. Some argue look at the Nuggets. Before the series, I was telling Laker Sanity. The Nuggets changed a lot of their pieces since the WCF of 2020. Top 5 minute guys in 2019-20 around Joker/Murray = Barton, Grant, Millsap, Morris, Craig. Top 5 minute per game players around Joker/Murray in 2023= KCP, Gordon, Porter Jr, Brown, Green.
They kept their big 2, but changed the role players considerably. The Clippers OTOH thought they had it, and put a lot of money into Morris, Kennard, Zubac, etc, and didn't end up anywhere near a title. Once LAL pay up Austin, Rui, DLO etc. if the core support around AD/Bron is not good enough, we'll be similar to the Clips. Good RS team qualifies for the playoffs, not good enough to win a title. I feel a lot of people think that by getting to the WCF it proved this set up works and that Lebron just ran out of gas. I'm not sure about that. I feel we were the smaller team that looked a lot less athletic compared to the Nuggets front court. In addition, I think we also lacked a defensive guard that could slow down Murray, considering we play both Austin/DLO together. To me, we're 2 pieces away. An impact Center that fits with AD/Bron. And a defensive guard that can make 3s at a high clip. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 4:30 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | There was no intention to develop any chemistry with either of them and AD. As I've said during the season, and it came to light to people only in the playoffs.
When you play AD full time at the 5, you are praying that the other side is much smaller than you. It worked against a depleted Grizz team and a 44 win Warriors team that had no size either. When we faced the Wolves in the play in game (and the Wolves aren't that good) or the Nuggets, the lack of huge advantage with AD was negated. This is where a coaching staff and even any roster development manager should be looking at. |
This oversimplifies the issue with this roster. Lebron is a PF-ish player at this point in his career. I don't think that the traditional labels apply well to superstars. Lebron has always played the Lebron position, just like Jokic plays the Jokic position, Durant plays the Durant position, and Kobe played the Kobe position. The superstars play their game, and the other players adjust around them. The point is that you can't just stick a SF label on Lebron and build the lineup from there.
So if you are thinking about a lineup with a center, Davis at the 4, and Lebron at the 3, you're not being realistic. Any center will be a part-time player, even if he starts. That's how we won the title in '20. Howard and McGee played limited minutes in the playoffs. Given three years of age for Lebron, this is even more true now.
This is why I regard a legitimate two-way wing as our #1 priority. We aren't going to get a star. That's out of our price range. But other than Vanderbilt, we just don't have much on the wing. The value of a center would be that we wouldn't have to go small when Davis sits, and that we could pair the center with Davis when Lebron sits. Hachimura gave it a go during the playoff run, but we need to do better.
As for the Clippers, I don't want to spend a lot of time analyzing their issues. Suffice it to say that the Kawhi broke down last year and that Kawhi and George both broke down this year. That's the Clippers' primary problem. The same thing could happen to us, and in fact it did two years ago.
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Dreamshake
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ihatetheceltics
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 6:12 am Post subject: Available Centers |
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| If we wanted to put AD at the 4 and bring in a solid big body 5 to go against Denver/size, who is out there ? And is serviceable center or wing a bigger need? |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake, I have a good feeling you guys are gonna land Pascal Siakam using the 4th pick, not sure if that will excite Houston but if Harden is signing with the Rox, Siakam would be pretty exciting, but maybe you guys have something bigger in mind |
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lakersken80
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LakersRGolden
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | In order for a 5 to actually play, he needs to be a game changer. I can't see this coaching staff value an ordinary rotational Center to start him.
We need to really invest and find someone who is of quality. Without that, they will likely just keep moving forward with AD at the 5. |
If you want to try for a chip, we need a Center that can
1) Start in the regular season and play around 20 minutes.
2) Stay in front of Jokic and other true centers in the playoffs.
3) Sit on the bench during the playoffs when the other team is normal sized.
If only we could have had a Zubac or Lopez on the team. |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Dreamshake, I have a good feeling you guys are gonna land Pascal Siakam using the 4th pick, not sure if that will excite Houston but if Harden is signing with the Rox, Siakam would be pretty exciting, but maybe you guys have something bigger in mind |
I think giving up #4 for anyone you can sign outright in a year would be idiotic. |
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Halflife
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 8:03 am Post subject: Re: Available Centers |
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| ihatetheceltics wrote: | | If we wanted to put AD at the 4 and bring in a solid big body 5 to go against Denver/size, who is out there ? And is serviceable center or wing a bigger need? |
Again, if you put AD at 4 where do you play Lebron, who is a 4 today?
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 8:20 am Post subject: Re: Available Centers |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | ihatetheceltics wrote: | | If we wanted to put AD at the 4 and bring in a solid big body 5 to go against Denver/size, who is out there ? And is serviceable center or wing a bigger need? |
Again, if you put AD at 4 where do you play Lebron, who is a 4 today? |
Right, but the other poster is raising a different question. In the case of a specific matchup like Denver, it would be useful to have a big man to put on Jokic. That's sort of what we were doing with Hachimura, and it worked up to a point. In Game 4, we gave Tristan Thompson some minutes, too. If we had a functional bench center, this would work better.
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Bron2AD
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 8:24 am Post subject: Re: Available Centers |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | ihatetheceltics wrote: | | If we wanted to put AD at the 4 and bring in a solid big body 5 to go against Denver/size, who is out there ? And is serviceable center or wing a bigger need? |
Again, if you put AD at 4 where do you play Lebron, who is a 4 today? |
What position lebron plays should be the last of the concerns. Guys that we are trying to bring like Lopez/Naz ried are stretch 5’s and can space the floor |
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lakersfan32
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 8:31 am Post subject: Re: Available Centers |
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| ihatetheceltics wrote: | | If we wanted to put AD at the 4 and bring in a solid big body 5 to go against Denver/size, who is out there ? And is serviceable center or wing a bigger need? |
tarick black is still only 31, sign him up |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| Heard NY is trying to see if Obi Toppin can get traded for value, what about something like Bamba/Beasley/17th pick for Fournier/Toppin, Lakers take a chance on Fournier with the hope he will be rejuvenated next season under a different scene, Toppin gets the chance to grow with Christie/Reaves |
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LakerFan1987
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Heard NY is trying to see if Obi Toppin can get traded for value, what about something like Bamba/Beasley/17th pick for Fournier/Toppin, Lakers take a chance on Fournier with the hope he will be rejuvenated next season under a different scene, Toppin gets the chance to grow with Christie/Reaves |
Now you talking IG.
Except I'd rather keep #17 then get Toppin. Just trade Beasley for Fournier since both might want a change of scenery.
I also think Fournier has more consistency than Beasley. |
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Bron2AD
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Heard NY is trying to see if Obi Toppin can get traded for value, what about something like Bamba/Beasley/17th pick for Fournier/Toppin, Lakers take a chance on Fournier with the hope he will be rejuvenated next season under a different scene, Toppin gets the chance to grow with Christie/Reaves |
If you taking Fournier contract then we should get a pick and not give a pick
Why we trading for obi when he plays same position as ad and will want to get paid soon |
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lakersfan32
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Heard NY is trying to see if Obi Toppin can get traded for value, what about something like Bamba/Beasley/17th pick for Fournier/Toppin, Lakers take a chance on Fournier with the hope he will be rejuvenated next season under a different scene, Toppin gets the chance to grow with Christie/Reaves |
toppin is trash. a power forward who doesn't rebound or defend. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfan32 wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Heard NY is trying to see if Obi Toppin can get traded for value, what about something like Bamba/Beasley/17th pick for Fournier/Toppin, Lakers take a chance on Fournier with the hope he will be rejuvenated next season under a different scene, Toppin gets the chance to grow with Christie/Reaves |
toppin is trash. a power forward who doesn't rebound or defend. |
Phil Handy working with him will do wonders for his game IMO |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| LakerFan1987 wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Heard NY is trying to see if Obi Toppin can get traded for value, what about something like Bamba/Beasley/17th pick for Fournier/Toppin, Lakers take a chance on Fournier with the hope he will be rejuvenated next season under a different scene, Toppin gets the chance to grow with Christie/Reaves |
Now you talking IG.
Except I'd rather keep #17 then get Toppin. Just trade Beasley for Fournier since both might want a change of scenery.
I also think Fournier has more consistency than Beasley. |
We can also to get Rose instead of Toppin if that’s 1 of your preferences, Rose essentially becomes a insurance PG if we are fortunate enough to get someone like Alex Caruso or Bruce Brown, but I’m glad you like my idea bro, Toppin can be flipped for something else if you guys aren’t high on him, maybe to OKC for 1 if there 1st round picks  |
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al242
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| slavavov wrote: | Instead of Kyrie, Trae Young, Buddy Hield, etc., what do you guys think of possibly going after Dejounte Murray instead to replace DLo?
| Quote: | | While not a prototypical point guard, could the Lakers target a trade for Atlanta's Dejounte Murray for his defensive prowess -- hoping his addition could get the team out in transition more often where a traditional point guard with half-court sets sensibilities is less needed? |
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/37728354/the-three-free-agency-paths-lakers-take-offseason
He's not that good a 3-point shooter, but not nearly as bad as Westbrook. He's a very good defender, and at 6-foot-4, he's not a small point guard who would get hunted a lot perhaps.
His contract is just under $20 million a year, so maybe we could get him while retaining our depth.
But I'm not super familiar with his game or whether he is effective off the ball as well as on the ball.
Apologies if someone already mentioned this recently in this thread. |
He absolutely cannot shoot, he was on my fantasy bball team this year and was an absolute disaster. If I remember correctly, he shot like
30% from the field for the last month of the season, with multiple single digit scoring games… he is not him |
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