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Bron2AD
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 Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Bron2AD wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Bron2AD wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | I’m surprised you guys are still in favor of rolling the dice with DLO after he underperformed in the playoffs |
| Bron2AD wrote: |
i expect him to opt in and get traded this summer. |
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Yeah I saw that it just seems some don’t mind him coming back |
Evidently no one wants to pay him but will be willing to give up assets for him during the season. |
or some forget common sense where he will be expirer and other team might look to shed multi year salary |
That’s is probably the second most possible thing that can happen, the team taking on long term salary for his expiring contract. That could be a positive or a negative. The most likely thing is that he opts in and plays the season for the Lakers. But it is DLO’s decision to make, not the teams. |
I know you like to be a smarta$s and post snarly comments but the question was why some want to have dlo back and roll with him.
nobody was talking about whose choice it was to come back 
you outta depression after both your teams pelicans and clippers got booted out? |
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dcarter4kobe
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: | | Japago wrote: | I just saw the reason why Brandon Ingram talk picked up yesterday. The Pelicans aren't even going to offer him an extension? Sheeesh.
Those former young Lakers wouldn't even be a playoff team if they all stayed together. Randle and BI together would've been a nightmare at some point with their clashing ball-dominance and no play-making behind it. Those Lakers wouldn't have even had longevity over the current Lakers, because they wouldn't be any good in the first place.
The Lakers didn't draft any busts, but they didn't draft any stars either. That's the reality of rebuilding right there.
3 number 2 picks and 1 number 7 pick, and no stars to show for it. I wouldn't take any of those guys as a top 3 option on a championship team. They probably could have top 3 most talent on a winning team, but their complimentary skills are too poor to even be that.
It gets rough hearing fans over-hype our players. They wanted to wait many years for these guys to grow.
Imagine year and years of patiently waiting for THESE guys to grow? It's now 2024 and their current states are the results that you got.
The Lakers' rebuild started with the Lakers drafting Julius in 2014. We would be entering 10 years of no progress being made towards building a contender.
MAYBE the Lakers could have drafted someone after those guys, but they're probably JUST good enough to get the Lakers outside of the top lottery. |
The plan before LeBron came was to add two elites to the young players and picks.
No one ever said the young players were elites. They said they were good players who would provide depth to accompany two elite players.
Had we waited instead of traded for AD, we would have had a dynasty in place.
We would have had LBJ/AD and the best of the young players and kept our picks.
You can try to argue that AD might not have waited, but it looks pretty clear that his relationship with LBJ and Klutch is solid enough that they could have convinced him to wait.
Look at the difference that Hart makes for the Knicks.
You know what we lacked against Denver? Someone tough like Hart who would hustle for those boards and play better defense than Rui or Reaves.
And Hart was considered almost a throwaway.
Ingram has been a choker and is starting to get a baby Harden reputation, but he's also led them singlehandedly when Zion is hurt. The kid is a good player and I still have faith he will one day do well and do something like Hart is this season.
Someone's going to get a bargain because he went 2-14, just like we got a bargain when DLo choked last year, and might still get one if DLo can't find anyone that wants him.
You wanted us to trade the farm for Zach Lavine.
All I've ever said is it's better to have depth and the early exit of all the superteams this year has more than proven my point. |
I thought the dynasty would be LeBron/PG/AD. But for some reason PG resigned with OKC over LAL.
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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Bron2AD wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | I’m surprised you guys are still in favor of rolling the dice with DLO after he underperformed in the playoffs |
| Bron2AD wrote: |
i expect him to opt in and get traded this summer. |
? |
Yeah I saw that it just seems some don’t mind him coming back |
He is the scapegoat so maybe there is value in that.
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Japago
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: | | Japago wrote: | I just saw the reason why Brandon Ingram talk picked up yesterday. The Pelicans aren't even going to offer him an extension? Sheeesh.
Those former young Lakers wouldn't even be a playoff team if they all stayed together. Randle and BI together would've been a nightmare at some point with their clashing ball-dominance and no play-making behind it. Those Lakers wouldn't have even had longevity over the current Lakers, because they wouldn't be any good in the first place.
The Lakers didn't draft any busts, but they didn't draft any stars either. That's the reality of rebuilding right there.
3 number 2 picks and 1 number 7 pick, and no stars to show for it. I wouldn't take any of those guys as a top 3 option on a championship team. They probably could have top 3 most talent on a winning team, but their complimentary skills are too poor to even be that.
It gets rough hearing fans over-hype our players. They wanted to wait many years for these guys to grow.
Imagine year and years of patiently waiting for THESE guys to grow? It's now 2024 and their current states are the results that you got.
The Lakers' rebuild started with the Lakers drafting Julius in 2014. We would be entering 10 years of no progress being made towards building a contender.
MAYBE the Lakers could have drafted someone after those guys, but they're probably JUST good enough to get the Lakers outside of the top lottery. |
The plan before LeBron came was to add two elites to the young players and picks.
No one ever said the young players were elites. They said they were good players who would provide depth to accompany two elite players.
Had we waited instead of traded for AD, we would have had a dynasty in place.
We would have had LBJ/AD and the best of the young players and kept our picks.
You can try to argue that AD might not have waited, but it looks pretty clear that his relationship with LBJ and Klutch is solid enough that they could have convinced him to wait.
Look at the difference that Hart makes for the Knicks.
You know what we lacked against Denver? Someone tough like Hart who would hustle for those boards and play better defense than Rui or Reaves.
And Hart was considered almost a throwaway.
Ingram has been a choker and is starting to get a baby Harden reputation, but he's also led them singlehandedly when Zion is hurt. The kid is a good player and I still have faith he will one day do well and do something like Hart is this season.
Someone's going to get a bargain because he went 2-14, just like we got a bargain when DLo choked last year, and might still get one if DLo can't find anyone that wants him.
You wanted us to trade the farm for Zach Lavine.
All I've ever said is it's better to have depth and the early exit of all the superteams this year has more than proven my point. |
The biggest reason Denver beat LA again was that their 3rd/4th best players were VASTLY better than the Lakers' 3rd/4th.
MPJ basically gave them a big 3.
He's making money like a big 3. He's making $36 million next year.
DEN, MIN, BOS are probably THE 3 contenders, right? Well, they have superior 3rd best players who are making a TON of money.
MIN has KAT and Gobert making $49 mil and $44 mil respectively, depending on who you think is their 3rd best.
BOS has Jrue and Porzingis both making $30 million respectively.
DEN's top 4 will make $147 mil next year, MIN's top 4 will make $151 mil, and BOS's will make $143 mil + a 5th who'll make $20 million.
Those teams have big 4s making a lot of money.
Other big salaries outside of those guys include/may include KCP if he goes back to DEN and Naz Reid making $14 mil next year.
Bron and AD are making $94 million by themselves. There's space there for a big time 3rd guy, especially if AR is the 4th guy making only $13 million next year.
If possible, I say the combination of DLo + Rui need to be consolidated into 1 big player because they don't give the Lakers THAT kind of support in the playoffs for what they're salary is.
The Lakers' big 5 goes to $143 million. The Lakers also have Vando and Gabe making $11 mil each.
I think it helps those teams a little that they have some talent under rookie scale deals instead of paying lower rotation guys like Vando and Gabe that kind of money.
But yeah, those teams have superior big 3s and 4s than the Lakers who are adequately compensated as such.
Last edited by Japago on Mon May 06, 2024 12:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dcarter4kobe
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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I believe Donovan Mitchell would be that 3rd guy to actually get us over the top.
_________________
"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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27
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | I believe Donovan Mitchell would be that 3rd guy to actually get us over the top. |
Im not a big D. Mitchell fan but I can't deny he turns it on in the playoffs. Cavs were cooked without him against the Magic. He nearly won game 6 on his own. He's been winning me over, slowly. I dunno how the Lakers could get him but I would be a great addition |
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dcarter4kobe
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| 27 wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | I believe Donovan Mitchell would be that 3rd guy to actually get us over the top. |
Im not a big D. Mitchell fan but I can't deny he turns it on in the playoffs. Cavs were cooked without him against the Magic. He nearly won game 6 on his own. He's been winning me over, slowly. I dunno how the Lakers could get him but I would be a great addition |
His name has been linked with LA along with Young. I also doubt we have enough. On the flip side, he would have a lot of leverage if he were to ask out as some reports are saying he might being on an exp k next year.
_________________
"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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levon
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Looks like Riley's pushing Butler out of Miami |
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27
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Joined: 26 Sep 2010
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | 27 wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | I believe Donovan Mitchell would be that 3rd guy to actually get us over the top. |
Im not a big D. Mitchell fan but I can't deny he turns it on in the playoffs. Cavs were cooked without him against the Magic. He nearly won game 6 on his own. He's been winning me over, slowly. I dunno how the Lakers could get him but I would be a great addition |
His name has been linked with LA along with Young. I also doubt we have enough. On the flip side, he would have a lot of leverage if he were to ask out as some reports are saying he might being on an exp k next year. |
I wonder who the Lakers would trade. Have to assume Reaves is in the deal but who else?
In any case, I'm hopefull for a productive off season |
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Halflife
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tox
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| 27 wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | 27 wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | I believe Donovan Mitchell would be that 3rd guy to actually get us over the top. |
Im not a big D. Mitchell fan but I can't deny he turns it on in the playoffs. Cavs were cooked without him against the Magic. He nearly won game 6 on his own. He's been winning me over, slowly. I dunno how the Lakers could get him but I would be a great addition |
His name has been linked with LA along with Young. I also doubt we have enough. On the flip side, he would have a lot of leverage if he were to ask out as some reports are saying he might being on an exp k next year. |
I wonder who the Lakers would trade. Have to assume Reaves is in the deal but who else?
In any case, I'm hopefull for a productive off season |
He earns $28M so I assume it'd be something like Reaves/Hachimura + multiple FRP (the Lakers have up to 3). |
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | 27 wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | I believe Donovan Mitchell would be that 3rd guy to actually get us over the top. |
Im not a big D. Mitchell fan but I can't deny he turns it on in the playoffs. Cavs were cooked without him against the Magic. He nearly won game 6 on his own. He's been winning me over, slowly. I dunno how the Lakers could get him but I would be a great addition |
His name has been linked with LA along with Young. I also doubt we have enough. On the flip side, he would have a lot of leverage if he were to ask out as some reports are saying he might being on an exp k next year. |
There were rumors early on that he wants to be a Knick even though Cleveland wants to keep him. It will be interesting how that ends up.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Donovan Mitchell will be able to ask whatever he wants from Cleveland. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | | Looks like Riley's pushing Butler out of Miami |
Pat knows how to light a fire under his players.
He's right Jimmy missed alot of games this year. If you are paid the max. And want a max extension. You gotta play.
And this is coming from a Jimmy lover.
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Hanging from Rafters
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Japago wrote: |
…
The biggest reason Denver beat LA again was that their 3rd/4th best players were VASTLY better than the Lakers' 3rd/4th.
DEN, MIN, BOS are probably THE 3 contenders, right? Well, they have superior 3rd best players who are making a TON of money.
…
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I see it differently, it wasn’t the 3rd/4th player disparity, in fact it had little to do with 1 through 5. In every game except game 3…the let down game after the heartbreaking buzzer beater loss…it was 7th/8th that loss the game.
Every player on the Lakers matched every corresponding number on the Nuggets except 2 & 3. Still, their 3rd outscored our 3rd by 5, but our 2nd outscored their 2nd by 5 evening out the 2 vs 3 and 3 vs 2 production. Every other position was almost exactly the same. 1st vs 1st - 28ppg, 4th vs 4th - 13ppg, 5th vs 5th - 8ppg. 1-5 on both teams scored almost exactly the same so that none of them was the issue.
For all the grief Rui got he was actually a little more productive than KCP. Sure Dlo/AR trailed Gordon/MPJ by 4ppg but AD/LBJ outscored Jokic/Murray by 5ppg.
Missing the points above will cause Pelinka to get rid of the main contributors instead of just adding the players to plug the holes. Playing MaxC more instead of ineffective Vincent/Dinwiddie (coaching prob), and adding a rebounding C at the deadline (GM prob) to this existing team looks like it may have been enough to change the outcome.
Vincent/Hayes/JHS/1st/2nd/swap for Caruso/Drummond is the kind of move that would put the Lakers in position to win a ship. Just 1 more rebound (Drummond) to eliminate a 2nd chance 3ptr, just 1 more defensive stop (Caruso) in the backcourt, just one more 3ptr from a role player (MaxC) looks like it would have given the Lakers 3 more wins. The Lakers have already beaten all the remaining teams during the reg season, doesn’t mean they would beat them in the playoffs but it would have looked promising.
This team has earned a chance to run it back with a backup center/guard upgrade. They won too many games in Feb/Mar/Apr and lead at halftime of all 5 games in the playoffs while losing 2 games on a last second shot, to think that drastic changes are needed. Based on those accomplishments the Lakers can stick with the core with tweaks to get over the top. I’ll never use injuries as an excuse, the GM has to construct teams to overcome those…like NYK/Clev doing now without Randle/Allen…but heck, with Vando/Wood the Lakers may have won anyway without any changes. Upgrade backups in front and back courts then run it back with Budenholzer!
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“When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.”
Last edited by Hanging from Rafters on Mon May 06, 2024 1:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Halflife
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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Didn’t pat famously say”better to get rid of a guy a year early than a year late” ? Jimmy is bordering on that. He seems to get nicked easier but could be wrong. Pat would be an amazing consultant
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27
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | Didn’t pat famously say”better to get rid of a guy a year early than a year late” ? Jimmy is bordering on that. He seems to get nicked easier but could be wrong. Pat would be an amazing consultant |
Could you imagine? I freaking wish. Not my team so easy for me to say but give that man part ownership and get him here!! |
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Halflife
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| 27 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | Didn’t pat famously say”better to get rid of a guy a year early than a year late” ? Jimmy is bordering on that. He seems to get nicked easier but could be wrong. Pat would be an amazing consultant |
Could you imagine? I freaking wish. Not my team so easy for me to say but give that man part ownership and get him here!! |
His strength is lack of emotional attachment. Polar opposite of Jeanie.
That’s why when we sign an ex-heat and they barely put up a fight to re-sign them , that should be a red flag.
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Kobe.
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Japago
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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Riley does a lot of things really well. They had a good coach that they stuck by early when there was pressure to fire him. They have a good team culture in place. They draft well.
But, I don't think Pat Riley would be good at massaging the egos of the stars it takes to actually win titles. Jimmy is old and unique in his ways.
We're pretty far removed from the Heat big 3 days. I don't know if his tough attitude would work well with today's stars.
He just seems to go on tangents whenever stuff happens that he doesn't like. He burned bridges when LeBron went back to CLE. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Japago wrote: | Riley does a lot of things really well. They had a good coach that they stuck by early when there was pressure to fire him. They have a good team culture in place. They draft well.
But, I don't think Pat Riley would be good at massaging the egos of the stars it takes to actually win titles. Jimmy is old and unique in his ways.
We're pretty far removed from the Heat big 3 days. I don't know if his tough attitude would work well with today's stars.
He just seems to go on tangents whenever stuff happens that he doesn't like. He burned bridges when LeBron went back to CLE. |
He's risk averse. Like you said. Hiring coaches, drafting players, developing a culture. He's done all those well.
But he has consistently struck out on trading for big names since the big 3.
He should've given Jimmy more help the past 4 years. Part of the reason why Jimmy hasn't stayed healthy is because he's had to be Hercules in the playoffs too much.
30 and 40 point triple doubles while guarding the best opposing player. It's a bit much. I love Bam. But he's not a reliable #2 option. And everyone else is just a role player.
If Jimmy just had a reliable 20 PPG scorer next to him. Things would've gone differently.
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Last edited by kikanga on Mon May 06, 2024 2:43 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| LeBron for Butler? |
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Hanging from Rafters
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Joined: 31 Jul 2018
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | LeBron for Butler? |
For what? Certainly not a player for the Lakers to go after a ship, perhaps you’re asking for another reason.
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“When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.” |
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Batguano
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | LeBron for Butler? |
For what? Certainly not a player for the Lakers to go after a ship, perhaps you’re asking for another reason. |
Dude just loves making trade scenarios for the sake of it. It's what he lives for. |
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Bron2AD
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Posts: 9508
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Batguano wrote: | | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | LeBron for Butler? |
For what? Certainly not a player for the Lakers to go after a ship, perhaps you’re asking for another reason. |
Dude just loves making trade scenarios for the sake of it. It's what he lives for. |
Ya silly trade |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Batguano wrote: | | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | LeBron for Butler? |
For what? Certainly not a player for the Lakers to go after a ship, perhaps you’re asking for another reason. |
Dude just loves making trade scenarios for the sake of it. It's what he lives for. |
Just having fun lol I know Butler is getting up there in age with a lot of milage and injury issues |
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