LakersGround.net :: View topic - Lets start a Petition to get Ham Fired this Offseason

Lets start a Petition to get Ham Fired this Offseason
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next

LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author

Message

deal
Franchise Player

Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 14915
Location: Earth

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 11:40 am Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:

No.

_________________
Lakers need to build a freaking team !

Nonamehero
Starting Rotation

Joined: 31 Oct 2018
Posts: 816

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 2:21 pm Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

The coach inherited a situation where there was Westbrook and an injury prone AD/Lebron combo without any chemistry. The team was 11th in the West.

Right now, a year later, they're in the same boat. Only, they've gotten out of the Westbrook situation by paying up a possible lottery pick. So the team has much better chemistry and floor balance now.

Guess what hasn't changed? AD/Bron injury proneness. And they didn't exactly trade for a warrior in DLO. Talented dude, great all around skill for a 3rd option, but known not to be a big time leader. It would have helped if some of our players got a little Kobe in them right now instead of sitting out as much as they have.

Honestly, I never got blaming last year on the coach, and this year while I am unimpressed by Ham's work, I don't blame him either. As I said a year ago, for those who wanted the coach gone, are we really sure we will upgrade? Will we upgrade and magically everything will turn around with WB? Because the coach had a proven resume and won you a ring. He didn't get along/mesh with WB, but aside from that, he was probably in the top 10 of the head coaches rankings at the time. He had given 2 teams elite results when you provided him with defensive talent (which we didn't last year). So would we really go out and get someone truly elite, and pay up for one? (We didn't).

I wouldn't fire Ham, as I think he deserves a full season free of WB, and the injuries to AD/Bron have really hurt us this year (again). I only blame Pelinka (and Jeanie). Ham has his strengths and weaknesses, but overall, he's probably going to end up being a solid respected coach. The team was playing solid when Bron/AD were in with DLO. We need to see a full season of that, before we blame it all on Ham.

One year and our window is closed.
This is same as the Westbrick situation.

He didn’t even look good with a full roster.
Just the players meshed well.
The dude doesn’t have a system.
Doesn’t have a consistent rotation.

Tell me his strength other than just being a cheerleader?

Nonamehero
Starting Rotation

Joined: 31 Oct 2018
Posts: 816

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 2:24 pm Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

I meant we need to see a season where he has a real team like he has now. Of course I expect LBJ to continue to do what he has been, and AD is AD with injuries. I also know DLO's career arc. Difference is now we have depth. We've seen it. We beat the Warriors, we beat the Thunder on the road, without our stars. That's what we need and will have next season. If Ham had that all season, we'd not be sitting 11th.

I'm just saying, what we have to work with now and at the season's start is night and day. Had we had this team from the start of the season, there's no way we're sitting at 11th in the West right now. We're probably even with the injuries somewhere in that 6-7 range in the West. So each game is not as must win, and each injury is not as devastating as currently.

Look, I'm not his biggest supporter nor do I think he's a better coach than Vogel. I thought Vogel was the best coach we had since Phil. But as Vogel said to some writer last year, when you have a team basically that has no depth and then there's injuries galore on top of that, it's virtually impossible for a coach to get his system/flow going. There's just no continuity.

I don't believe Ham has had any more continuity than Vogel had and until the WB trade he had the same roster limitations (only now those limitations are lifted).

So sure if you want to be fair, and hold the two to the same "win now" standard that they used to BS and fire Vogel. Yeah. But neither deserves to be fired. AD and Lebron barely play 30 games together a season, and then there's the WB situation we just got out of. Very hard for me to blame it on the coach. Is Ty Lue gonna get fired now the Clips are 0-4 with WB?

Ham has shown Nash level of incompetency, maybe even worst this year.

When has a horrible coach turn into a good coach?

In short time span as well?

When has that ever happened?

venturalakersfan
Retired Number

Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144475
Location: The Gold Coast

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 2:25 pm Post subject:

Polarbear wrote:

And the carousel continues

I mean that works out so well, right?

Yeah, solid plan to replace the head coach every season.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.

pio2u
Retired Number

Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54644

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 2:38 pm Post subject:

Nonamehero wrote:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

a nice personality??

Trevacious2
Starting Rotation

Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 308

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 2:42 pm Post subject:

So he's not a bad cheerleader. And then we have, what, NINE assistant coaches? What are they contributing to our strategy and player rotations in-game? Do they make any play calls in crunch time? Who's our best X and O diagrammer?

Four Decade Bandwagon
Star Player

Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8163

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 3:44 pm Post subject:

So it is Ham’s fault? Just like it was Vogel’s before him? Or maybe relying on “ if only they can be healthy and build chemistry” every season has turned out to be a bad strategy the last couple seasons. But sure, keep blaming the coaches.

jodeke
Retired Number

Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67759
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 3:57 pm Post subject:

Let Ham finish the season. Firing a coach so near the end of the season wouldn't be good. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.

Nonamehero
Starting Rotation

Joined: 31 Oct 2018
Posts: 816

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 4:06 pm Post subject:

Trevacious2 wrote:

So he's not a bad cheerleader.

And then we have, what, NINE assistant coaches? What are they contributing to our strategy and player rotations in-game? Do they make any play calls in crunch time? Who's our best X and O diagrammer?

Dude that’s not how it works.
As I explained before.

If the head coach/leader is an idiots, you can have a thousand assistant coach, it won’t matter.

Look at Microsoft as a corporation under idiot Ballmer, the company was going no where, as soon as they replace him with someone smart, BAM, Microsoft is back on top again. I am pretty sure there were smart people working under Ballmer, but they can’t change his decisions.

Back to basketball, Steve Nash is a joke of a coach, the Nets was a joke, as soon as he left, Jacque Vaughn took over and even making Nets competitive without Durant and Kyrie. Did Jacque Vaughn suddenly become smart, or did he finally not have to answer to an idiot head coach, so he can actually implement real strategy.

Coaches like Ham or Luke Walton, no matter how many smart people are under them. It won’t matter. They won’t be able to tell who’s plan is smart or not.

people usually resonant with people with similar mindsets as well.
Ham picked his own staff, so most likely the dude picked a bunch of brainless cheerleaders as well.

Nonamehero
Starting Rotation

Joined: 31 Oct 2018
Posts: 816

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 8:30 pm Post subject:

jodeke wrote:

Let Ham finish the season. Firing a coach so near the end of the season wouldn't be good.

Yah never said I want him gone this season.

This season is pretty much over.

Even if we make the play in.

With eveyrone health issue, there is no championship aspiration this season.

But we must get rid of Ham in the off-season, or else it is another season wasted.

Nonamehero
Starting Rotation

Joined: 31 Oct 2018
Posts: 816

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 8:54 pm Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:

So it is Ham’s fault? Just like it was Vogel’s before him?

Or maybe relying on “ if only they can be healthy and build chemistry” every season has turned out to be a bad strategy the last couple seasons.

But sure, keep blaming the coaches.

I am not asking for a world class coach like Pop.
The only good coach that Lebron had was Spo.

Lebron team doesn’t really need like a super good coach to win.
Lue was just an average coach.

But we can’t have coach that work against u.

Like Ham or Luke

Polarbear
Star Player

Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 6129

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 9:21 pm Post subject:

Nonamehero wrote:

Polarbear wrote:

Nonamehero wrote:

Don Draper wrote:

I think Ham's problem is he really prioritizes guy's feelings and having players like him. I can't explain why he'll play some guys a certain way and not others otherwise. His other problem is he's just not a good Xs and Os coach regardless.

He's also missing his two true PGs in DLO and LeBron, meaning the team is basically brainless out there in terms of having NBA level schemes to guide them.

He really would have benefitted from the Vogel treatment IMO, that is, having his assistants hand selected. He could then focus on managing player emotions and then the more senior assistant could lay down the law in terms of plays and rotations

If you are a smart assistant coach, would you want to work under an idiot of a head coach.
Would he even listen, would you even be able to speak the same language that he can understand?

Ham is like Westbrick.

He doesn’t know what he is doing, but he doesn’t know that he doesn’t know.
So inside his brain, his self encouragement is constantly working to tell himself that he is actually a genius and he is on path to greatness, and he needs to try out 1 billion different lineups as he sees fits.

At head coach level, you have so many smart people working under you.
You really don’t have to know everything. But you need to be able to know who is actually smart and what you need help on.

Unfortunately Ham lack that self awareness just like Westbrick.

I have to rain in my emotions after losses to, but I just want to understand what you’re saying you’re now saying that Darvin ham is not respected around the leak is that what you’re trying to insinuate?

I am not emotional after the loss.
I been calling for Ham to get fired for a week now.
The dude is just as bad as Luke Walton, if not worst.

Not sure if the his staff respect him or not.
But the end result is the no good consistent rotation or strategy being implemented.

So either his staff are idiots too, or he doesn’t listen to them, or both.

Either way I am trying to say this is beyond fixable.
Vogel had flaws too, but Vogel made adjustment and is a good coach overall.

I seen enough of Ham interviews to spot a complete clueless head coach.

You don’t read your post like the rest of us do I guess you were absolutely emotional after a loss your emotional after a loss, your emotional in the game your emotional all the (bleep) time

Polarbear
Star Player

Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 6129

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 9:24 pm Post subject:

Darvin ham was hampered by that albatross Russell Westbrook this whole season up until just recently now Russell Westbrook’s off sabotaging the clippers Since that time, Darvin has a winning record, the coach is only so good as the players he is given to work with

wolfpaclaker
Retired Number

Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58349

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:41 am Post subject:

Quote:

I will comment about Vogel, though. He was an okay coach, but do not underestimate the importance of the coaching triumvirate we had during the title season: Vogel, Kidd, and Hollins. That trio was excellent. After Kidd and Hollins were gone, Vogel was not as effective. By the end of last season, he looked broken after two years of injuries and roster changes, plus one year of Westbrook. He needed to go, as much for his own good as for the good of the team.

The roster Vogel had was much more the reason for the ineffectiveness than losing Kidd. Kidd in Dallas said that Vogel's playbook helped him in Dallas and Vogel taught him how to become a better head coach. I think you're completely ignoring the main issue with that change. The Lakers not only lose Kidd/Hollins, his 2 former HC type assistants, they also make the WB trade and let Caruso go. A lot of the key pieces were gone, and the entire process is what made them go from a .700 type of team that struggles to make the play ins.

Still, at least in that era of the WB, Lakers were able to at some point be above .500 (I think at one point they were 20-19). As we saw this year, the Lakers never sniffed going over .500 in the WB era with a new coach, system, voice. It wasn't the coach. It was the personnel. Our closest to being .500 in the Westbrook era this year was 3 games under at 25-28. Last year, we were 24-24 at one point, before the second AD injury. So nah, I don't agree the coaching was to blame or that he's just an ok coach. Maybe in your book, but the facts show that the team improved nothing with changes coaches in the Westbrook era of 1 3/4 seasons. That's ok, to say. We should all agree that Pelinka messed the roster up and put the blame on Vogel.

Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number

Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 7:15 am Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

Quote:

I'm not ignoring anything. See the highlighted part.

My assessment is that Vogel was an average to slightly above average head coach. If you take away '20, when he was part of the triumvirate, he barely has a .500 record for his career in the regular season and is just below .500 in the playoffs. Context matters, and the seasons with the Magic influence his regular season record. Still, he failed with the Magic and had only moderate success with the Pacers.

Again, I'm not saying that Vogel was a bum. Likewise, I'm not saying that the roster issues, injuries, and Westbrook didn't have a big effect. However, by the end of last season, Vogel looked broken. It appeared that he had lost the locker room. While I generally roll my eyes when people on message boards talk about "rotations" and the like, he was doing things that didn't make a lot of sense even to me. He wasn't the right guy any more.

I'll make a couple more comments while we're on the subject. First, beware of comparing season to season results without context. We opened last season with a forgiving schedule, but we struggled anyway. We opened this season with a brutal schedule, and we were a train wreck. This is not a criticism of Vogel or a defense of Ham. The point is that it isn't an apples-to-apples comparison.

Second, I'm a fan of international soccer. One of the interesting differences between the two sports is the attitude toward head coaches. I'm generalizing here, but in soccer, teams tend to view coaches as mechanics. If the coach ceases to be the right mechanic for the team, they'll bring in a new coach. This happens even when the coach just won a championship. For example, this happened a few years ago with Claudio Ranieri. He led Leicester to a famous EPL title, then got sacked before the end of the next season because the team was doing poorly. This was driven by the danger of relegation, but the same thing happens from time to time with teams that aren't in danger of relegation and are just underperforming. In the US, we have an attitude that coaches "deserve" more time, yada yada yada. This leads to teams sticking with a coach much longer than they should.
_________________
Internet Argument Resolved

Car54
Franchise Player

Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 14424

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 7:53 am Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:

blackmamba08 wrote:

Worst coach the Lakers have ever hard. No question about that. Even Luke seems level above this dumbass.

He is a real meathead. I still remember this dude as more for being the no skilled dunker for the Nuggets. But at least the meathead can get these dudes to play hard which is really more than half the battle in the regular season. But is this dude going to win us playoff games with his coaching acumen??? It would be a miracle if he isnt a liability in the playoffs.

As for worst coach???? I would actually rate Magic and Randy Pfund worse than this meathead.....for now

Byron Scott??????
_________________
Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi

Car54
Franchise Player

Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 14424

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 7:59 am Post subject: Re: Lets start a Petition to get Ham Fired this Offseason

Nonamehero wrote:

I stopped watching most of the games after we traded for Westbrick.
I don't want to rage every game and destroy my health.
Mostly I been following highlights.

After the trade this year, got super excited, started watching again.

And after 3 games, I realized Ham is just as big of a problem as Westbrick.

The dude is completely clueless.
if any of you still holding out hope for this idiots, please don't hold your breath.

It aint happening, I wish he could turn into a decent coach, but that is the same as wishing Westbrick can shoot, not turn the ball over, play team defense, it is wishful thinking.

It is simply asking too much out of our idiot coach who is only good as a motivator and an assistant coach.

and you might hope oh he can be a dumb brick, just hire some good assistant coach for him, and we are golden.
NO, that's not how it works.

When the leader is a dumb brick, you will check out mentally as part of his staff.

Look at the Nets when Steve Nash is coaching, it was just a (bleep) show, and now that he left, Jacque Vaughn is doing heck of a job.

Imagine you in the coaching staff telling Ham oh I dont think we should play the 3 guard lineup with Brick, Beverly and Schroder, as none of them can shoot, Ham then tells you NAWWW the analytic checks out, we are golden.... like would you even care at that point.
I see the camera turn to our timeouts, I can even see the whole coaching staff just adapting Ham coaching stye, pumping up our guys, and yell YAHHH lets go, no one is drawing up plays or have a ounce of strategy discussion. When Lebron is not injured, this is not as bad, as Lebron is a floor general himself.

Anyways to be honest, no one wants to hear it, and will call me a fake fan, but we have to honest with ourselves, this season is over with this idiot coach.

but we still have hope for next season, maybe if we put all of our voice together and just start a petition to fire Ham, we will have a chance to compete.

So the black coach gets 2 weeks with a roster that makes sense before you want to out him lol
_________________
Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi

BILBJH
Star Player

Joined: 23 Jul 2020
Posts: 5130

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:15 am Post subject: Re: Lets start a Petition to get Ham Fired this Offseason

Car54 wrote:

Nonamehero wrote:

So the black coach gets 2 weeks with a roster that makes sense before you want to out him lol

Jesus, just replace him with a black coach if that is your issue... the dude seems in over his head when it comes to tactics.

He seems like a really good leader in terms of morale and likeability but I have zero confidence when things go wrong that he's going to adjust to the situation.

quartzcharm
Starting Rotation

Joined: 30 Mar 2016
Posts: 557

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 9:21 am Post subject:

Get real. Firing Ham isn't going to happen. We're stuck with him for at least the next 2 seasons.

jodeke
Retired Number

Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67759
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 9:47 am Post subject:

Let's start a petition to get Nonamehero suspended. I'm not on board with taking a mans lively hood. Darvin is a rookie coach with a new young roster. Allow him to finish the year. I'm for him looking back over the season, getting tutored by experienced coaches to point out his mistakes. Let him start the season to see how he fares. I wonder how much he was influenced by the FO? I think he has potential. I know the way we start is important. A slow start could be disastrous. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.

venturalakersfan
Retired Number

Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144475
Location: The Gold Coast

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 9:51 am Post subject:

Once Westbrook was traded we wondered who the next scapegoat would be, now we know. Anyone to keep the sacred Lebron from blame. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.

Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number

Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 11:43 am Post subject:

jodeke wrote:

I'm not on board with taking a mans lively hood.

Ham has a four-year contract. If they fire him tomorrow, he'll still make more money that a lot of people will make in their lifetime.
_________________
Internet Argument Resolved

Valdarno
Starting Rotation

Joined: 17 Nov 2022
Posts: 212

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 1:09 pm Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:

jodeke wrote:

I'm not on board with taking a mans lively hood.

Ham has a four-year contract. If they fire him tomorrow, he'll still make more money that a lot of people will make in their lifetime.

Exactly, AH. I'm not feeling sorry for Ham if he isn't qualified for the job.

jodeke
Retired Number

Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67759
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 1:14 pm Post subject:

Valdarno wrote:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:

jodeke wrote:

I'm not on board with taking a mans lively hood.

Ham has a four-year contract. If they fire him tomorrow, he'll still make more money that a lot of people will make in their lifetime.

Exactly, AH. I'm not feeling sorry for Ham if he isn't qualified for the job.

I'm not feeling sorry for him either. I'm advocating giving him a chance.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.

Nonamehero
Starting Rotation

Joined: 31 Oct 2018
Posts: 816

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: Lets start a Petition to get Ham Fired this Offseason

Car54 wrote:

Nonamehero wrote:

So the black coach gets 2 weeks with a roster that makes sense before you want to out him lol

Bring Udoka in. I guarantee we will be the favorite to win it all next year.

An idiot is an idiot.

It has nothing to do with his color.

Luke Walton was an idiot too.

Display posts from previous:

LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge

All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next

Page 2 of 7

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.

We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.