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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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 Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | I don’t know how league can do anything to Ja. Team maybe. |
NBA is a business. He might not have broken any laws but the image he is projecting isn't something the league wants to be associated with. As such he is opening himself to punishment by the league. |
It was the off season, if he didn’t break any laws I find it hard for them to take money. Didn’t hurt anyone, was literally doing what every hip hop artist and pro gun individual does. |
They suspended him for 8 games last yr - with no pay for the same thing.
What makes it hard to believe? |
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strong9
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Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Posts: 3289
Location: so many places
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | I don’t know how league can do anything to Ja. Team maybe. |
NBA is a business. He might not have broken any laws but the image he is projecting isn't something the league wants to be associated with. As such he is opening himself to punishment by the league. |
It was the off season, if he didn’t break any laws I find it hard for them to take money. Didn’t hurt anyone, was literally doing what every hip hop artist and pro gun individual does. |
He doesn't get to be every hip-hop artist and pro gun enthusiast. He has to be a boy scout for now. He is on probation. |
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Buck32
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Joined: 30 Apr 2001
Posts: 7329
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| 32 wrote: | | Quote: | @wojespn speaks on Ja Morant after his latest video:
"I think Ja Morant is facing a lengthy, a significant suspension to start next season if indeed that was a firearm in his hand in that video. ... I don't think Adam Silver is going to take this one lightly." |
https://twitter.com/GetUpESPN/status/1658101427380559873 |
A 5-year suspension would just be about right. He gets time to be a full-time gangster and who knows maybe take part in a real shootout.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | I don’t know how league can do anything to Ja. Team maybe. |
NBA is a business. He might not have broken any laws but the image he is projecting isn't something the league wants to be associated with. As such he is opening himself to punishment by the league. |
It was the off season, if he didn’t break any laws I find it hard for them to take money. Didn’t hurt anyone, was literally doing what every hip hop artist and pro gun individual does. |
They suspended him for 8 games last yr - with no pay for the same thing.
What makes it hard to believe? |
I don't want to dive too deeply into this, but there are legitimate questions as to whether the NBA can do anything when there is no connection to team activities. This is a unionized workforce, so there are constraints on what the NBA can do. The Grizzlies may have a better argument for taking disciplinary action. But again, I don't want to get too deep into this issue, because it would require an analysis of the CBA (the old one), the NBA Constitution and By-Laws, and federal labor law. That's just too much effort to be worth it.
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Can you carry a concealed handgun in a vehicle in Tennessee? |
| Quote: | Yes, anyone who is not otherwise prohibited from owning a firearm and is in lawful possession of the motor vehicle may concealed carry or openly carry a handgun. In addition, unless expressly prohibited by federal law, firearms may be transported and stored in a vehicle while on or utilizing any public or private parking area if:
The motor vehicle is parked in a location where the motor vehicle is permitted to be; and
The firearm or ammunition being transported or stored in the motor vehicle:
Is kept from ordinary observation if the person is in the motor vehicle; or
Is kept from ordinary observation and locked within the trunk, glove box or interior of the person's motor vehicle or a container securely affixed to the motor vehicle if the person is not in the motor vehicle. |
LINK |
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | I don’t know how league can do anything to Ja. Team maybe. |
NBA is a business. He might not have broken any laws but the image he is projecting isn't something the league wants to be associated with. As such he is opening himself to punishment by the league. |
It was the off season, if he didn’t break any laws I find it hard for them to take money. Didn’t hurt anyone, was literally doing what every hip hop artist and pro gun individual does. |
They suspended him for 8 games last yr - with no pay for the same thing.
What makes it hard to believe? |
I don't want to dive too deeply into this, but there are legitimate questions as to whether the NBA can do anything when there is no connection to team activities. This is a unionized workforce, so there are constraints on what the NBA can do. The Grizzlies may have a better argument for taking disciplinary action. But again, I don't want to get too deep into this issue, because it would require an analysis of the CBA (the old one), the NBA Constitution and By-Laws, and federal labor law. That's just too much effort to be worth it. |
The NBA suspended him last time for 8 games for "conduct detrimental to the league."
There's already a precedent.
I'm assuming they at least looked into an "analysis of the CBA (the old one), the NBA Constitution and By-Laws, and federal labor law."
Either that or they too thought it was "just too much effort to be worth it."
What would be the difference this time that is not "conduct detrimental to the league" but it was last time?
| Quote: | Ja Morant suspended for 8 games by NBA for ‘conduct detrimental to the league’
CNN
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Memphis Grizzlies guard Ja Morant has been suspended by the NBA for eight games without pay for “conduct detrimental to the league,” officials announced Wednesday.
The punishment follows an incident where Morant was seen in an Instagram Live video holding a gun at a nightclub outside Denver.
The league said an investigation “did not conclude that the gun at issue belonged to Morant, was brought by him into the nightclub or was displayed by him beyond a brief period. The investigation also did not find that Morant possessed the gun while traveling with the team or in any NBA facility.”
https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/15/sport/nba-ja-morant-suspension-spt-intl/index.html
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| Quote: | NBA suspends Ja Morant 8 games for video showing gun in club
MIAMI (AP) — Ja Morant will be back with the Memphis Grizzlies next week, after the NBA handed the All-Star guard an eight-game suspension without pay Wednesday and saying his displaying a firearm at a club in suburban Denver earlier this month was “conduct detrimental to the league.”
...................
“Ja’s conduct was irresponsible, reckless and potentially very dangerous,” NBA Commissioner Adam Silver said in a statement. “It also has serious consequences given his enormous following and influence, particularly among young fans who look up to him.”
Silver met with Morant in New York before announcing the league’s decision. Other league officials, as well as representatives from the National Basketball Players Association, were part of that meeting.
https://apnews.com/article/ja-morant-suspended-nba-gun-video-8cc82061f6465f96d6c5d0806d92d7d0 |
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lakersfan32
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 9:34 am Post subject: |
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ouch
https://sports.yahoo.com/shannon-sharpe-tees-off-ja-144900893.html
Now, Sharpe thinks that $39 million isn't the only money Morant is likely to lose, and he blaming people whom he feels enabled Morant.
"All of the people that said let Ja be Ja, are y'all gonna be the treasurer of that GoFundMe account, because he just lost $39 million because he wasn't on one of the three All-NBA teams," Sharpe said. "He's about to lose another $20-$30 million of these endorsements." |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | I don’t know how league can do anything to Ja. Team maybe. |
NBA is a business. He might not have broken any laws but the image he is projecting isn't something the league wants to be associated with. As such he is opening himself to punishment by the league. |
It was the off season, if he didn’t break any laws I find it hard for them to take money. Didn’t hurt anyone, was literally doing what every hip hop artist and pro gun individual does. |
Off season or not it doesn't really matter. As long as he is employed by an NBA team he is subject to NBA punishment. What the NBA doing isn't anything different from other sports leagues like the NFL and MLB. As you can see they have cut ties with other sport stars that have done conduct detrimental to the image of the league. I will give you an example of a player who didn't break any laws and the law basically cleared his name. Trevor Bauer. After he cleared his name, no MLB teams would touch him because of the allegations even if some people felt he got a raw deal. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | The NBA suspended him last time for 8 games for "conduct detrimental to the league."
There's already a precedent.
I'm assuming they at least looked into an "analysis of the CBA (the old one), the NBA Constitution and By-Laws, and federal labor law."
Either that or they too thought it was "just too much effort to be worth it."
What would be the difference this time that is not "conduct detrimental to the league" but it was last time? |
Let's start with the fact that an eight-game suspension is not subject to a grievance under the CBA. The threshold is twelve games or $50,000. Once a disciplinary action crosses that threshold, we're in a whole different world.
Edit: I wrote that from memory. I would need to pull up the CBA and check the exact threshold. That's more trouble than it's worth. The important point is that, if there is some sort of lengthy suspension, there will be a grievance, and the league will need to convince an arbitrator to let it stand.
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | The NBA suspended him last time for 8 games for "conduct detrimental to the league."
There's already a precedent.
I'm assuming they at least looked into an "analysis of the CBA (the old one), the NBA Constitution and By-Laws, and federal labor law."
Either that or they too thought it was "just too much effort to be worth it."
What would be the difference this time that is not "conduct detrimental to the league" but it was last time? |
Let's start with the fact that an eight-game suspension is not subject to a grievance under the CBA. The threshold is twelve games or $50,000. Once a disciplinary action crosses that threshold, we're in a whole different world.
Edit: I wrote that from memory. I would need to pull up the CBA and check the exact threshold. That's more trouble than it's worth. The important point is that, if there is some sort of lengthy suspension, there will be a grievance, and the league will need to convince an arbitrator to let it stand. |
That's a whole different take from where you started:
| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | .....but there are legitimate questions as to whether the NBA can do anything when there is no connection to team activities. |
"Whether the NBA can do anything" vs. now "anything over 12 games..."
And what was the point of bringing up "when there is no connection to team activities"?
Does a connection to team activities negate the 12 game threshold?
And what does the 12 game threshold have anything to do with "the NBA Constitution and By-Laws, and federal labor law"?
Seems that's only a CBA issue right?
Last edited by LongBeachPoly on Mon May 15, 2023 10:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 10:35 am Post subject: |
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^^^^
No, I just gave you part of the answer. That's why I said "Let's start with." I am not going to take the time to find answers to all of the questions raised by this situation. What I'm telling you is that anything over 12 games or $50,000 (or something like that), is subject to a union grievance. Whether the league has the power to do anything at all is a different question, and I'm not going to take the time to figure it out.
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Whether the league has the power to do anything at all is a different question, and I'm not going to take the time to figure it out. |
Which is an issue that already has a precedent, since they suspended him for 8 games before for a very similar infraction.
Since there's already a precedent, it shouldn't be a question that needs to be "figured out".
The only new info you're introducing is a 12 game limit which allows a player to appeal.
Basically, you're conceding that the NBA would have the power to suspend him for 11 games...
| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | I am not going to take the time to find answers to all of the questions raised by this situation. |
Translation: I don't know the answers and I'm not going to find out........ |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 11:12 am Post subject: |
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^^^^
I'm not sure what's up with all the hostility, but that's your problem. I've explained what I'm saying pretty well. For some reason you seem determined to find contradictions that aren't actually there. Knock yourself out.
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | ^^^^
I'm not sure what's up with all the hostility, but that's your problem. I've explained what I'm saying pretty well. For some reason you seem determined to find contradictions that aren't actually there. Knock yourself out. |
Hostility?
You mean I'm being mean and hostile in this discussion about the NBA's power to suspend Ja Morant?
Bottom line, either the NBA has the power to suspend Ja Morant, or they don't.
Precedent says they at least can suspend him 8 games for a similar infraction.
You think it's more complicated than that and you don't have the time to search for the actual answers. Cool...
If that's being hostile, my apologies.
But the bottom line is, there's going to be a right and wrong answer to this. So, we'll see.
But, I'd be shocked if the outcome turns out to be zero punishment by the NBA for the reason you stated:
| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | ....there are legitimate questions as to whether the NBA can do anything when there is no connection to team activities. |
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oaktown_dimond
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| dude, Ja... just go to the range and get your "gun boner" satiated. LOL! |
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Halflife
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | I don’t know how league can do anything to Ja. Team maybe. |
NBA is a business. He might not have broken any laws but the image he is projecting isn't something the league wants to be associated with. As such he is opening himself to punishment by the league. |
It was the off season, if he didn’t break any laws I find it hard for them to take money. Didn’t hurt anyone, was literally doing what every hip hop artist and pro gun individual does. |
Off season or not it doesn't really matter. As long as he is employed by an NBA team he is subject to NBA punishment. What the NBA doing isn't anything different from other sports leagues like the NFL and MLB. As you can see they have cut ties with other sport stars that have done conduct detrimental to the image of the league. I will give you an example of a player who didn't break any laws and the law basically cleared his name. Trevor Bauer. After he cleared his name, no MLB teams would touch him because of the allegations even if some people felt he got a raw deal. |
Sure, but apparently he didn’t break any laws, didn’t hurt anyone and TBH I have no idea where he is. We live in a gun culture where individuals have rights. They can do whatever they want but I have a hard time believing they can take his money.
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | I don’t know how league can do anything to Ja. Team maybe. |
NBA is a business. He might not have broken any laws but the image he is projecting isn't something the league wants to be associated with. As such he is opening himself to punishment by the league. |
It was the off season, if he didn’t break any laws I find it hard for them to take money. Didn’t hurt anyone, was literally doing what every hip hop artist and pro gun individual does. |
Off season or not it doesn't really matter. As long as he is employed by an NBA team he is subject to NBA punishment. What the NBA doing isn't anything different from other sports leagues like the NFL and MLB. As you can see they have cut ties with other sport stars that have done conduct detrimental to the image of the league. I will give you an example of a player who didn't break any laws and the law basically cleared his name. Trevor Bauer. After he cleared his name, no MLB teams would touch him because of the allegations even if some people felt he got a raw deal. |
Sure, but apparently he didn’t break any laws, didn’t hurt anyone and TBH I have no idea where he is. We live in a gun culture where individuals have rights. They can do whatever they want but I have a hard time believing they can take his money. |
You are talking about two separate things. Ja can have his rights but he also signed an employment contract with the NBA. His employment might subject him to punishment if his behavior violates the terms of his contract. |
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Halflife
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | I don’t know how league can do anything to Ja. Team maybe. |
NBA is a business. He might not have broken any laws but the image he is projecting isn't something the league wants to be associated with. As such he is opening himself to punishment by the league. |
It was the off season, if he didn’t break any laws I find it hard for them to take money. Didn’t hurt anyone, was literally doing what every hip hop artist and pro gun individual does. |
Off season or not it doesn't really matter. As long as he is employed by an NBA team he is subject to NBA punishment. What the NBA doing isn't anything different from other sports leagues like the NFL and MLB. As you can see they have cut ties with other sport stars that have done conduct detrimental to the image of the league. I will give you an example of a player who didn't break any laws and the law basically cleared his name. Trevor Bauer. After he cleared his name, no MLB teams would touch him because of the allegations even if some people felt he got a raw deal. |
Sure, but apparently he didn’t break any laws, didn’t hurt anyone and TBH I have no idea where he is. We live in a gun culture where individuals have rights. They can do whatever they want but I have a hard time believing they can take his money. |
You are talking about two separate things. Ja can have his rights but he also signed an employment contract with the NBA. His employment might subject him to punishment if his behavior violates the terms of his contract. |
Right. Like listening to music in a car and pulls out what might be a legal firearm. A strip club > car with a friend.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | You are talking about two separate things. Ja can have his rights but he also signed an employment contract with the NBA. His employment might subject him to punishment if his behavior violates the terms of his contract. |
It's a little more nuanced than that. I can explain the general structure. There's a standard player contract, which I've read in the past. It does not contain anything that covers this sort of situation, but it requires a player to follow team rules and it incorporates the section of the NBA Constitution that allows the Commissioner to impose discipline for things like gambling and conduct detrimental to the league.
There are complicated grievance rules for player discipline. My recollection is that there is a 12 game/$50,000 threshold (or whatever the exact numbers are) for a full blown union grievance. I think that there are some other provisions for cases below the threshold, but I'd need to go read the CBA. There may be limits on what the Commissioner can deem to be conduct detrimental to the league, and there may be limits on the scope and effectiveness of team rules.
From time to time over the years, I've had occasion to examine some of these issues outside of the context of sports. Suffice it to say that there are few, if any, "one size fits all" answers to these questions.
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | I don’t know how league can do anything to Ja. Team maybe. |
NBA is a business. He might not have broken any laws but the image he is projecting isn't something the league wants to be associated with. As such he is opening himself to punishment by the league. |
It was the off season, if he didn’t break any laws I find it hard for them to take money. Didn’t hurt anyone, was literally doing what every hip hop artist and pro gun individual does. |
Off season or not it doesn't really matter. As long as he is employed by an NBA team he is subject to NBA punishment. What the NBA doing isn't anything different from other sports leagues like the NFL and MLB. As you can see they have cut ties with other sport stars that have done conduct detrimental to the image of the league. I will give you an example of a player who didn't break any laws and the law basically cleared his name. Trevor Bauer. After he cleared his name, no MLB teams would touch him because of the allegations even if some people felt he got a raw deal. |
Sure, but apparently he didn’t break any laws, didn’t hurt anyone and TBH I have no idea where he is. We live in a gun culture where individuals have rights. They can do whatever they want but I have a hard time believing they can take his money. |
You are talking about two separate things. Ja can have his rights but he also signed an employment contract with the NBA. His employment might subject him to punishment if his behavior violates the terms of his contract. |
Right. Like listening to music in a car and pulls out what might be a legal firearm. A strip club > car with a friend. |
It seems like Tennessee law prohibits it’s individuals from brandishing a weapon in public view while traveling in a vehicle. He is holding the gun near his face, so that is public view, by law. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | It seems like Tennessee law prohibits it’s individuals from brandishing a weapon in public view while traveling in a vehicle. He is holding the gun near his face, so that is public view, by law. |
Interesting. But, even if true, it's only illegal if he's prosecuted for it. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2023 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | It seems like Tennessee law prohibits it’s individuals from brandishing a weapon in public view while traveling in a vehicle. He is holding the gun near his face, so that is public view, by law. |
I think you're reading that wrong. I don't think he was in a parking area.
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2023 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | It seems like Tennessee law prohibits it’s individuals from brandishing a weapon in public view while traveling in a vehicle. He is holding the gun near his face, so that is public view, by law. |
I think you're reading that wrong. I don't think he was in a parking area. |
So if you’re driving on an open road you can brandish a weapon in open view? I don’t think it matters if you are in a parking area or not. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2023 7:43 am Post subject: |
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^^^^
I was referring to what you quoted:
| Quote: | Yes, anyone who is not otherwise prohibited from owning a firearm and is in lawful possession of the motor vehicle may concealed carry or openly carry a handgun. In addition, unless expressly prohibited by federal law, firearms may be transported and stored in a vehicle while on or utilizing any public or private parking area if:
The motor vehicle is parked in a location where the motor vehicle is permitted to be; and
The firearm or ammunition being transported or stored in the motor vehicle:
Is kept from ordinary observation if the person is in the motor vehicle; or
Is kept from ordinary observation and locked within the trunk, glove box or interior of the person's motor vehicle or a container securely affixed to the motor vehicle if the person is not in the motor vehicle. |
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