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Best for Lakers? |
AR stays as the starting SG |
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82% |
[ 38 ] |
AR the 6th-Man off the bench |
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17% |
[ 8 ] |
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Total Votes : 46 |
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Nash Vegas Star Player
Joined: 01 Sep 2012 Posts: 7240
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:52 pm Post subject: New Bench Dilemna (cc: Reaves / Beasley) |
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Lakers bench have been out scoring opponents in dub digits and were ranked top 5 in bench points after the all-star break.
But in the last 4 games, after AR was inserted into the starting lineup in place of Beasley, the Lakers bench instead have been out scored by a total of 34 points.
Would Lakers be better having AR come off the bench as their Manu Ginobli 6th man? Or should the Lakers stick with AR with the starters because he’s much better than the one he replaced?
Either way, AR shouldn’t lose any minutes and he should always be closing games. _________________
Last edited by Nash Vegas on Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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justsomelakerfan Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2016 Posts: 10939
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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He either has to come off the bench or there has to be an early sub between him and DLO to lead the 2nd unit. I think there’s merit in starting your best players and getting off to a strong start, so I lean towards early sub but either is fine. _________________ Austin Reaves
Tweeter: @sarah_dotbiz |
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leking006 Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2018 Posts: 6457
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: The New Bench Dilemna (cc: Reaves/Beasley) |
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Nash Vegas wrote: | Lakers were ranked top 5 in bench points after the all-star break ouscofing opponents in dub digits. But in the last 4 games, after AR was inserted into the starting lineup in place of Beasley, the Lakers bench instead have been out scored by a total of 34 points.
Would Lakers be better having AR come off the bench as their Manu Ginobli 6th man? Or should the Lakers stick with AR with the starters because he’s much better than the one he replaced?
Either way, AR shouldn’t lose any minutes and he should always be closing games. |
Reaves can always play with the bench. they just need to manage his time. Sit him and Bron at the mid 1st then start them in the 2nd q. |
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tox Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015 Posts: 17906
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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I think there is a good case for both (although I think this board is going to come down in favor of starting). I voted for bench because, as you noted, the Lakers'' bench with Reaves was really good. And while the starters were awful, that was without LeBron.
With LeBron, AD & Russell can naturally slot in to the #2 and #3 options (in terms of ball dominance/ defensive attention/ etc -- even if AD is putting up bigger numbers) so I think the starters will be good even with Austin.
I can imagine a way to keep Reaves as a starter and stagger the bench so that it's not as bad. But I do prefer Reaves on the bench, and I also think maximizing Beasley's value is putting him next to LeBron/AD/Russell. |
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saetarubia Star Player
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 6208
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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Stagger minutes to make sure Lakers have two ball handlers on the court always. Starting 5 should remain the same. Also play Lonnie if Malik is struggling a lot. _________________ Showtime 2.0 |
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dont_be_a_wuss Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Mar 2012 Posts: 21561
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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Beasley has been playing terribly. If he wants to start he needs to shoot more efficiently. |
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Megaton Retired Number
Joined: 18 Feb 2015 Posts: 25664
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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Lol at idiots who even thinks Beasley is a rotation at this point, let alone a starter.
Reaves starts. It’s as simple as that. Near elite defender, incredibly efficient offensive scorer from anywhere on the court. Great playmaker especially next to AD and Lebron.
What you do is simple: you stagger minutes. Just because Ham is a total brain dead moron with sending in entire 2nd unit lineups, doesn’t mean you compromise now the best starting lineup in the NBA. Especially for a scrub like Beasley. There’s no dilemma, unless you’re as clueless as Ham. _________________ Darvin Scam: https://media.tenor.com/images/3c15249955860a4b16b59e8ae035fb75/tenor.gif |
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miggz23 Star Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2018 Posts: 6963
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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This is simple... Reaves is better player off the bench. Our bench also will be better as a unit. Starting Reaves you simply lose his production off the bench.
Beasley should play strictly with the starters, where we can maximize his shooting. You let him run the first 5-6 minutes to start the game and the half. Judge him by how good he's shooting that night. You sit him if he's not shooting well which limit him to 10-12 minutes. If he's shooting well he gets extra burn. Plus I like Beasley as a floor spacer with the starting unit.
Reaves can produce as a starter or off the bench. It does not matter if he's starting or not. As long you give him his minutes and his closing out games. |
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tox Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015 Posts: 17906
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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I stand by my Beasley statement, right now he's basically worse than useless and I think we need him to be more valuable or it'll be a large problem come playoffs time. Give him 3-4 games of playing with the starters and see if improved shot quality helps him hit 3s. |
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Kblo247! Star Player
Joined: 05 Oct 2015 Posts: 4012
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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A simple fix is just don’t play Beasley or Lonnie.
Denis and Troy get all the minutes as the backup perimeter. Then they can just let Russell or Reaves play with them. And they can offer Rui and Gabriel the other minutes keeping one of Bron and AD out there while also extending Vando minutes.
An effective 9 man rotation
Russell Reaves Vando Bron AD - Start
Denis Troy Rui Gabriel - Bench with starters mixed in
Denis Russell Reaves Bron AD - Close
It’s not that hard to use that and say Beasley, Lonnie, and Bamba are just there as cheerleaders |
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Don Draper Retired Number
Joined: 21 Feb 2008 Posts: 28580 Location: LA --> Bay Area
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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Starting Reaves makes sense, especially to keep developing chemistry with DLO and LeBron. Not his fault Beasley has been bad. The bench will survive so long as we stagger minutes well and give Rui more opportunities to be the focal point. |
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JUST-MING Retired Number
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 44022
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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Not a dilemma. Dont play Malik. |
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Vancouver Fan Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Apr 2006 Posts: 17740
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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He starts and he finishes. _________________ Music is my medicine |
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Lonzo-Lite Star Player
Joined: 17 May 2011 Posts: 5102
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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If Ham insists on playing Beasley then the best way to maximize him is with the starters to spread the floor. Give him 6 mins then sit his ass until the start of the 3rd quarter.
Instead, Ham is playing Beasley as a semi-play maker off the bench like Austin was. _________________ Tacos |
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JUST-MING Retired Number
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 44022
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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I’d rather see Austin with the starters. Lonnie with the bench. Malik in street clothes. |
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miggz23 Star Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2018 Posts: 6963
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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JUST-MING wrote: | I’d rather see Austin with the starters. Lonnie with the bench. Malik in street clothes. |
Not sure you really want to go with Lonnie right now also.
Lonnie in March
7.8ppg - 39% - 28% - 71% shooting split.
Beasley in March
11.1ppg - 37% - 34% - 78% shooting split. |
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mad55557777 Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 23595
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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AR off the bench playing 32 minutes, and finish games. that’s how spurs used Manu. We kind of need a spark off the bench. |
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mad55557777 Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 23595
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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Lonzo-Lite wrote: | If Ham insists on playing Beasley then the best way to maximize him is with the starters to spread the floor. Give him 6 mins then sit his ass until the start of the 3rd quarter.
Instead, Ham is playing Beasley as a semi-play maker off the bench like Austin was. |
Ham just loves being creative…. |
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Megaton Retired Number
Joined: 18 Feb 2015 Posts: 25664
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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mad55557777 wrote: | AR off the bench playing 32 minutes, and finish games. that’s how spurs used Manu. We kind of need a spark off the bench. |
Spurs had good SGs who could also defend in front of him.
Who is the good SG besides Reaves? _________________ Darvin Scam: https://media.tenor.com/images/3c15249955860a4b16b59e8ae035fb75/tenor.gif |
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miggz23 Star Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2018 Posts: 6963
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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Megaton wrote: | mad55557777 wrote: | AR off the bench playing 32 minutes, and finish games. that’s how spurs used Manu. We kind of need a spark off the bench. |
Spurs had good SGs who could also defend in front of him.
Who is the good SG besides Reaves? |
I'm actually not oppose to starting TBJ also... If you look at Reaves split as a starter and off the bench it's pretty close. He is actually more efficient off the bench. Not saying Reaves is not starter quality. But we are giving up a lot of production off the bench by starting him. Schro/Reaves pairing off the bench is one of the best also.
As long Reaves get his minutes and closing out games its what matters. I'm more worried about the bench production like tonight.
Last edited by miggz23 on Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mad55557777 Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 23595
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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Megaton wrote: | mad55557777 wrote: | AR off the bench playing 32 minutes, and finish games. that’s how spurs used Manu. We kind of need a spark off the bench. |
Spurs had good SGs who could also defend in front of him.
Who is the good SG besides Reaves? |
This is irrelevant in this discussion. We are talking about how to use him most effectively. He plays the most minutes at SG position, but off the bench. |
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Megaton Retired Number
Joined: 18 Feb 2015 Posts: 25664
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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mad55557777 wrote: | Megaton wrote: | mad55557777 wrote: | AR off the bench playing 32 minutes, and finish games. that’s how spurs used Manu. We kind of need a spark off the bench. |
Spurs had good SGs who could also defend in front of him.
Who is the good SG besides Reaves? |
This is irrelevant in this discussion. |
Absolutely not. That is very much relevant. Because there is a difference between if we had someone like say…KCP, instead of a scrub like Beasley. Then having Reaves come off the bench MIGHT make sense in that regard.
But no, we don’t have a KCP. We don’t have a Danny Green either. We have Beasley, and Lonnie Walker. One is inconsistent and inefficient on offense, while playing zero defense (Walker), the other is just useless on offense when he doesn’t make any shots which has been most of the time now, and a liability on defense and anytime he holds the ball longer than 2 seconds (Beasley).
Reaves is a starter because he does things that qualify to be a starter:
- Great shooter
- Great defender
- Great playmaker
- Complements your two star players the best.
This is not complicated. You start him, and you stagger minutes. No competent coach ever plays the entire 2nd unit. Even Vogel was good at this. _________________ Darvin Scam: https://media.tenor.com/images/3c15249955860a4b16b59e8ae035fb75/tenor.gif |
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miggz23 Star Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2018 Posts: 6963
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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Megaton wrote: | mad55557777 wrote: | Megaton wrote: | mad55557777 wrote: | AR off the bench playing 32 minutes, and finish games. that’s how spurs used Manu. We kind of need a spark off the bench. |
Spurs had good SGs who could also defend in front of him.
Who is the good SG besides Reaves? |
This is irrelevant in this discussion. |
Absolutely not. That is very much relevant. Because there is a difference between if we had someone like say…KCP, instead of a scrub like Beasley. Then having Reaves come off the bench MIGHT make sense in that regard.
But no, we don’t have a KCP. We don’t have a Danny Green either. We have Beasley, and Lonnie Walker. One is inconsistent and inefficient on offense, while playing zero defense (Walker), the other is just useless on offense when he doesn’t make any shots which has been most of the time now, and a liability on defense and anytime he holds the ball longer than 2 seconds (Beasley).
Reaves is a starter because he does things that qualify to be a starter:
- Great shooter
- Great defender
- Great playmaker
- Complements your two star players the best.
This is not complicated. You start him, and you stagger minutes. No competent coach ever plays the entire 2nd unit. Even Vogel was good at this. |
Yea its actually complicated when your bench is only producing 14 points. There's a reason our bench torpedoed tonight. Those guys just don't make sense as a unit.
Let's see if Ham double down next game with similar rotation vs Minny. |
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mad55557777 Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 23595
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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Megaton wrote: | mad55557777 wrote: | Megaton wrote: | mad55557777 wrote: | AR off the bench playing 32 minutes, and finish games. that’s how spurs used Manu. We kind of need a spark off the bench. |
Spurs had good SGs who could also defend in front of him.
Who is the good SG besides Reaves? |
This is irrelevant in this discussion. |
Absolutely not. That is very much relevant. Because there is a difference between if we had someone like say…KCP, instead of a scrub like Beasley. Then having Reaves come off the bench MIGHT make sense in that regard.
But no, we don’t have a KCP. We don’t have a Danny Green either. We have Beasley, and Lonnie Walker. One is inconsistent and inefficient on offense, while playing zero defense (Walker), the other is just useless on offense when he doesn’t make any shots which has been most of the time now, and a liability on defense and anytime he holds the ball longer than 2 seconds (Beasley).
Reaves is a starter because he does things that qualify to be a starter:
- Great shooter
- Great defender
- Great playmaker
- Complements your two star players the best.
This is not complicated. |
You missed the game tonight which our bench gave up multiple big leads?. We can’t continue to run out stupid bench units that are destined to fail. AR doesn’t have a big bench/starter split and I can make a case he performs better off the bench. Who is starting doesn’t matter, it is about the minutes and who is finishing.
I am not going to just give up on Beasley after we traded our assets for him, and I don’t think our coaching will be doing that either. |
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Megaton Retired Number
Joined: 18 Feb 2015 Posts: 25664
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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miggz23 wrote: | Megaton wrote: | mad55557777 wrote: | Megaton wrote: | mad55557777 wrote: | AR off the bench playing 32 minutes, and finish games. that’s how spurs used Manu. We kind of need a spark off the bench. |
Spurs had good SGs who could also defend in front of him.
Who is the good SG besides Reaves? |
This is irrelevant in this discussion. |
Absolutely not. That is very much relevant. Because there is a difference between if we had someone like say…KCP, instead of a scrub like Beasley. Then having Reaves come off the bench MIGHT make sense in that regard.
But no, we don’t have a KCP. We don’t have a Danny Green either. We have Beasley, and Lonnie Walker. One is inconsistent and inefficient on offense, while playing zero defense (Walker), the other is just useless on offense when he doesn’t make any shots which has been most of the time now, and a liability on defense and anytime he holds the ball longer than 2 seconds (Beasley).
Reaves is a starter because he does things that qualify to be a starter:
- Great shooter
- Great defender
- Great playmaker
- Complements your two star players the best.
This is not complicated. You start him, and you stagger minutes. No competent coach ever plays the entire 2nd unit. Even Vogel was good at this. |
Yea its actually complicated when your bench is only producing 14 points. There's a reason our bench torpedoed tonight. Those guys just don't make sense as a unit.
Let's see if Ham double down next game with similar rotation vs Minny. |
They produced that much because he played the entire 2nd unit like an imbecile. If he staggered minutes with the starters, this wouldn’t happen.
Again, it’s not complicated. Any fan with some basketball knowledge can work it. Especially in today’s era of basketball that made offense and rotations so simplified, a caveman can do it. (Heh, classic Geicho commercial) _________________ Darvin Scam: https://media.tenor.com/images/3c15249955860a4b16b59e8ae035fb75/tenor.gif |
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