I’m Not a Nuggets fan, but…
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lakersboy
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 8:42 pm    Post subject: I’m Not a Nuggets fan, but…

…it’s refreshing to see someone win without following the Lakers’ philosophy.

The Nuggets:
1. didn’t pursue as many high priced stars as possible.
2. didn’t blow up team chemistry after being unsuccessful the last few years.
3. value the possibilities of incoming young talent, as evidenced by recent draft pick trading.
4. Saw value in KCP

In contrast,

The Lakers:
1 Justify constant instability with the motto “you need stars to win.”
2. Don’t value chemistry as long as they have Lebron and AD.
3. Only now as Lebron nears his end, MAY finally value their 1st rd pick.
4. Impatiently tried to upgrade KCP, others, and a 1st rd pick.

Lakers mgmt’s way of doing business has frustrated me to no end, ever since Magic’s decisions, and then breaking up the championship team after 2020.

Will the Lakers mgmt take note of Denver’s mgmt style?


Last edited by lakersboy on Mon Jun 12, 2023 9:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Denny_Russo
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 8:57 pm    Post subject:

Ya, but remember: no AD, no ring. Lakers cashed in already. The youth had to go, unfortunately. Sometimes you can't wait for the long haul and must make the moves. Was sad to see Ingram go, but it was necessary.

However, I'm fully behind the idea of homegrown talent right now. I'm ready to move on from Bron. We need a way to build continuity and chemistry over the long run. Work on Rui, Hachimura, Christie, #17. All the championship teams you've seen had some kind of rising star (Curry, Giannis, Jokic, etc). Lakers will have to find another one to build around. Who knows what will happen in the draft...
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 9:05 pm    Post subject:

Denny_Russo wrote:
Ya, but remember: no AD, no ring. Lakers cashed in already. The youth had to go, unfortunately. Sometimes you can't wait for the long haul and must make the moves. Was sad to see Ingram go, but it was necessary.

However, I'm fully behind the idea of homegrown talent right now. I'm ready to move on from Bron. We need a way to build continuity and chemistry over the long run. Work on Rui, Hachimura, Christie, #17. All the championship teams you've seen had some kind of rising star (Curry, Giannis, Jokic, etc). Lakers will have to find another one to build around. Who knows what will happen in the draft...

I only hope they don’t trade #17. It makes me laugh and wonder what Lebron would do if Bronny was in the draft and the Lakers traded the pick as they always had. Do you think he’d be mad
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 9:35 pm    Post subject:

The Lakers front office reacts to the fans impatience though. Because of past success they know they have to be competitive and will make things happen. As opposed to the Nuggets who had zero record of postseason success and were willing to run it back time after time. BTW seeing Stan Kroenke finally lift the championship trophy reminds me that he's owned the team since 2000 and seen numerous players pass thru his team without success until now.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 9:42 pm    Post subject:

Nuggets lucked into drafting Jokic at 41 and gave away Donovan Mitchell for nothing.. Hard for anyone to sit here and talk about their blueprint.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 9:56 pm    Post subject:

2019 wrote:
Nuggets lucked into drafting Jokic at 41 and gave away Donovan Mitchell for nothing.. Hard for anyone to sit here and talk about their blueprint.
Magic might have given away Jokic early in his career for a handful of beans, with the explanation that he wasn’t a star.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 10:26 pm    Post subject:

I do agree with this. I’m down for bringing in talent but it can’t be 100% of the talent. Also, the CBA is making it harder and harder to do so.

Bottom line I hate the feeling of “the window is closing.” Feels like we been in that mode since Bron came over. It’s exhausting. You could argue the window would be bolt shut if he never came over and that’s fair. But call me crazy, the idea of building something that blossoms is much more satisfying to me. Before anyone jumps in and says we are the Lakers we never do that! I present to you Kobe Bryant and Magic Johnson. Yes we do. Just not lately.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 3:45 am    Post subject:

lakersboy wrote:
Denny_Russo wrote:
Ya, but remember: no AD, no ring. Lakers cashed in already. The youth had to go, unfortunately. Sometimes you can't wait for the long haul and must make the moves. Was sad to see Ingram go, but it was necessary.

However, I'm fully behind the idea of homegrown talent right now. I'm ready to move on from Bron. We need a way to build continuity and chemistry over the long run. Work on Rui, Hachimura, Christie, #17. All the championship teams you've seen had some kind of rising star (Curry, Giannis, Jokic, etc). Lakers will have to find another one to build around. Who knows what will happen in the draft...

I only hope they don’t trade #17. It makes me laugh and wonder what Lebron would do if Bronny was in the draft and the Lakers traded the pick as they always had. Do you think he’d be mad


Yeah they better keep #17. I'm so sick of them trading away 1st rounders for jack. Some of these draft picks contribute almost immediately and play rotation minutes on contending teams. Look at Braun in the finals. The more cost controlled contracts under the new CBA, the better.

Rob has to think long term and stop appeasing Bron and AD. Don't even care if he goes Jerry Krause on them and tells them to pack their bags. It will show he has a spine.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:21 am    Post subject:

I completely agree. Rob had a championship team, with a championship head coach, and he systematically dismantled all of it for reasons unknown. Yes, he deserves some credit for putting together a competent, younger team at current. But he wasted valuable time, and now we're stuck with being reliant on an often-injured, consistently inconsistent Anthony Davis, and a middle aged, even more injured Lebron James.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:24 am    Post subject:

Biggest difference in the Lakers and Nuggets is 1) Their stars are in their athletic primes and 2) their FO never lost faith in the system and coach that won them a title. The Lakers seemed to undermine Vogel at every corner, including with the WB trade and then what they did during the season.

In contrast the Nuggets always knew it was a big 2 and a lot of quality role guys and they kept faith in Malone even after many failures and just kept changing the role guys till they got it right. Now they have it right.

Big problem with our team is Pelinka. He doesn’t build rosters that way. Even 2019 was a fluke as his plan A was a Kawhi/AD/Bron model with no depth. But to his credit, he did do a lot better this past season. Let’s see what happens in the off-season with his moves. Maybe he’s learned to build a roster and keep faith in a coaches system.
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defense
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 5:09 am    Post subject:

You don't "build" a roster like the nuggets. You get lucky getting a player like Jokic. Without Jokic, the building is futile.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 5:31 am    Post subject:

Different teams have different strategies. When a team wins there is typically an overreaction that this is the new trend.

Laker organization and fans always overreact. Whether good or bad depends on the results. It is in the DNA of the organization. Too many need the drama and the constant second guessing instead of maintaining a measured approach. LA needs the headlines and hype to feel they are “ doing something” even if it is not productive.

Denver on the other hand has been slowly building in the shadows. Believing in their system, coaching, and players. They easily could have fired Malone or traded away players. Especially when guys like Murray or Porter were rehabbing. No way the Lakers would have been patient enough.

And the Nuggets do not have a marquee player in the headlines always trying to undermine the decisions of the GM or forcing questionable trades. Sometimes very vocally and very public in a teammates direction.

The main difference I can see is the Nuggets play as team. They have incredible chemistry. Adding guys like KCP, Brown and Green to continue to build on that chemistry instead of making stupid impulsive trades or free agent moves to appease a player instead of building a team.

Different teams win in different ways. Watching the Nuggets develop this team over the past few years has been interesting to watch. They just won so people will try to copy the plan. Won’t work for most teams.

Certainly not for the Lakers. Not for every fan base. Takes too much patience and development. Lakers are way too impulsive and reactive. Looking for a quick fix or shortcut with no longevity. Compare the stability of the Nuggets roster to the constant change of the Lakers in the past 5 years. How many new players will be on each teams roster by the start of next season?

Both teams have won a championship in completely different ways. I doubt either could have done it trying to copy the other. Both entertaining in their own way.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:29 am    Post subject:

2. No chemstry needed in 2019 with brand new team and brand new headcoach. Lakers just hit the ground running and never looked back so chemistry is just an excuse. If you're good and you execute, you win. No chemistry bs.

Nuggets just lucked out Joker just like Milwaukee with Giannis. Hopefully, they will also be one and done as far as winning championships is concerned.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:49 am    Post subject:

Jamal Murry deserves more credit in this series. he played the perfect version of 2000 title team Kobe. he was the perfect Robin in this series. very efficient, let others take over the game, and deliver during the clutch when needed.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 7:01 am    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
2. No chemstry needed in 2019 with brand new team and brand new headcoach. Lakers just hit the ground running and never looked back so chemistry is just an excuse. If you're good and you execute, you win. No chemistry bs.

Nuggets just lucked out Joker just like Milwaukee with Giannis. Hopefully, they will also be one and done as far as winning championships is concerned.


Disagree. Chemistry not mattering is an exception not the rule. Plus that 2020
Laker team had instant chemistry. You want to talk about luck? But we can agree to disagree here.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 7:47 am    Post subject: Re: I’m Not a Nuggets fan, but…

lakersboy wrote:
…it’s refreshing to see someone win without following the Lakers’ philosophy.

The Nuggets:
1. didn’t pursue as many high priced stars as possible.
2. didn’t blow up team chemistry after being unsuccessful the last few years.
3. value the possibilities of incoming young talent, as evidenced by recent draft pick trading.
4. Saw value in KCP

In contrast,

The Lakers:
1 Justify constant instability with the motto “you need stars to win.”
2. Don’t value chemistry as long as they have Lebron and AD.
3. Only now as Lebron nears his end, MAY finally value their 1st rd pick.
4. Impatiently tried to upgrade KCP, others, and a 1st rd pick.

Lakers mgmt’s way of doing business has frustrated me to no end, ever since Magic’s decisions, and then breaking up the championship team after 2020.

Will the Lakers mgmt take note of Denver’s mgmt style?


You mean you hated the way the Lakers have been managed since 1980?

It's the same ol' formula.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 7:48 am    Post subject: Re: I’m Not a Nuggets fan, but…

lakersboy wrote:
…it’s refreshing to see someone win without following the Lakers’ philosophy.

The Nuggets:
1. didn’t pursue as many high priced stars as possible.
2. didn’t blow up team chemistry after being unsuccessful the last few years.
3. value the possibilities of incoming young talent, as evidenced by recent draft pick trading.
4. Saw value in KCP

In contrast,

The Lakers:
1 Justify constant instability with the motto “you need stars to win.”
2. Don’t value chemistry as long as they have Lebron and AD.
3. Only now as Lebron nears his end, MAY finally value their 1st rd pick.
4. Impatiently tried to upgrade KCP, others, and a 1st rd pick.

Lakers mgmt’s way of doing business has frustrated me to no end, ever since Magic’s decisions, and then breaking up the championship team after 2020.

Will the Lakers mgmt take note of Denver’s mgmt style?


As others have noted, a lot of Denver's success is due to the pure luck of a second-rock pick who turned into an MVP. I mean, Denver passed on Jovic themselves in the first round, so like everyone else they had no idea how good he would become. I don't see how that is a strategy that anyone can emulate; Denver couldn't even emulate it.

Beyond that, a lot the Denver "strategy" you list (they saw value in KCP) are the kind of moves every team makes. I mean, everytime a team trades for a player they see some kind of value in him. As far as "not blowing it up," they made a lot of changes between last year and this year.

Beyond that, it's hard to imagine the Lakers are going to look to Denver as a model to follow.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 7:58 am    Post subject:

One thing I will point out for Denver is they valued size and athleticism.

Jokic 6'11"
Porter Jr 6'10"
Gordon 6'8"
KCP 6'5"
Murray 6'4"

Green 6'8"
Braun 6'6"
Brown 6'4"

None of these midget 3 guard rotations. Lakers need to bigger in order to improve rebounding IMO.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 8:03 am    Post subject:

This x 1000.

Laker7 wrote:
One thing I will point out for Denver is they valued size and athleticism.

Jokic 6'11"
Porter Jr 6'10"
Gordon 6'8"
KCP 6'5"
Murray 6'4"

Green 6'8"
Braun 6'6"
Brown 6'4"

None of these midget 3 guard rotations. Lakers need to bigger in order to improve rebounding IMO.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 8:18 am    Post subject:

DD20045 wrote:
This x 1000.

Laker7 wrote:
One thing I will point out for Denver is they valued size and athleticism.

Jokic 6'11"
Porter Jr 6'10"
Gordon 6'8"
KCP 6'5"
Murray 6'4"

Green 6'8"
Braun 6'6"
Brown 6'4"

None of these midget 3 guard rotations. Lakers need to bigger in order to improve rebounding IMO.


Been saying this for years, but everyone thinks they are going to Steph and Klay their way to a ring.

Lakers were big when they won
Milwaukee was big when they won
Denver is big

There is no one way to win. Centers and big players are certainly not extinct.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 8:58 am    Post subject: Re: I’m Not a Nuggets fan, but…

activeverb wrote:
lakersboy wrote:
…it’s refreshing to see someone win without following the Lakers’ philosophy.

The Nuggets:
1. didn’t pursue as many high priced stars as possible.
2. didn’t blow up team chemistry after being unsuccessful the last few years.
3. value the possibilities of incoming young talent, as evidenced by recent draft pick trading.
4. Saw value in KCP

In contrast,

The Lakers:
1 Justify constant instability with the motto “you need stars to win.”
2. Don’t value chemistry as long as they have Lebron and AD.
3. Only now as Lebron nears his end, MAY finally value their 1st rd pick.
4. Impatiently tried to upgrade KCP, others, and a 1st rd pick.

Lakers mgmt’s way of doing business has frustrated me to no end, ever since Magic’s decisions, and then breaking up the championship team after 2020.

Will the Lakers mgmt take note of Denver’s mgmt style?


As others have noted, a lot of Denver's success is due to the pure luck of a second-rock pick who turned into an MVP. I mean, Denver passed on Jovic themselves in the first round, so like everyone else they had no idea how good he would become. I don't see how that is a strategy that anyone can emulate; Denver couldn't even emulate it.

Beyond that, a lot the Denver "strategy" you list (they saw value in KCP) are the kind of moves every team makes. I mean, everytime a team trades for a player they see some kind of value in him. As far as "not blowing it up," they made a lot of changes between last year and this year.

Beyond that, it's hard to imagine the Lakers are going to look to Denver as a model to follow.


Yeah the idea that they “didn’t pursue as many high priced stars as possible” is a bizarre bit of fiction. They tried to sign LeBron the year we got him. They drafted their high priced stars and then added another $20M guy in Gordon. I’m sure if they had the cap space or assets to get another they would. Denver operated like a small market team and benefitted from tremendous luck in getting an All Time great in the 2nd round. Kudos to them, but the Monday morning QB stuff is tiresome.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 9:13 am    Post subject:

2019 wrote:
Nuggets lucked into drafting Jokic at 41 and gave away Donovan Mitchell for nothing.. Hard for anyone to sit here and talk about their blueprint.


Denver picked the immortal Doug McDermott with the 11th overall pick in 2014. Sometimes, it is better to be lucky than good.
oops i think they picked him for the Bulls?


Last edited by parsons777 on Tue Jun 13, 2023 10:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 9:18 am    Post subject:

defense wrote:
DD20045 wrote:
This x 1000.

Laker7 wrote:
One thing I will point out for Denver is they valued size and athleticism.

Jokic 6'11"
Porter Jr 6'10"
Gordon 6'8"
KCP 6'5"
Murray 6'4"

Green 6'8"
Braun 6'6"
Brown 6'4"

None of these midget 3 guard rotations. Lakers need to bigger in order to improve rebounding IMO.


Been saying this for years, but everyone thinks they are going to Steph and Klay their way to a ring.

Lakers were big when they won
Milwaukee was big when they won
Denver is big

There is no one way to win. Centers and big players are certainly not extinct.

i think the right word is mobility.
when we win in 2020, it was bigs that can move (kieff, AD, Bron, Kuz), defend and rebound. Dwight was only useful in the Denver series.
bucks has Giannis and Brolo, portis, one moves like a deer, the other 2 are mobile and can shoot.
Denver, Jokic and Gordon can both move at a high level, and Gordon can shine on offense at times when needed.

there are just too many high PNRs run in today's game, those traditional big lineups don't work in the playoffs. since Lebron is going to be our 4, i think AD stays at 5 no matter what.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: I’m Not a Nuggets fan, but…

LakerFan1987 wrote:
lakersboy wrote:
…it’s refreshing to see someone win without following the Lakers’ philosophy.

The Nuggets:
1. didn’t pursue as many high priced stars as possible.
2. didn’t blow up team chemistry after being unsuccessful the last few years.
3. value the possibilities of incoming young talent, as evidenced by recent draft pick trading.
4. Saw value in KCP

In contrast,

The Lakers:
1 Justify constant instability with the motto “you need stars to win.”
2. Don’t value chemistry as long as they have Lebron and AD.
3. Only now as Lebron nears his end, MAY finally value their 1st rd pick.
4. Impatiently tried to upgrade KCP, others, and a 1st rd pick.

Lakers mgmt’s way of doing business has frustrated me to no end, ever since Magic’s decisions, and then breaking up the championship team after 2020.

Will the Lakers mgmt take note of Denver’s mgmt style?


You mean you hated the way the Lakers have been managed since 1980?

It's the same ol' formula.

That’s not even a little bit true. During 5 wins and 3 losses, the 80’s Lakers had stability and chemistry that was known for attacking inside with Kareem and running teams off the court. Eventually, Worthy and Scott were more prominent in the offense, especially during Kareem’s last year.
1980 champs featured Kareem, Magic, Nixon, Wilkes, and. Cooper. Beat Philly
‘82 Kareem, Magic, Nixon, Wilkes, Cooper, Rambis. Beat Philly
‘83 Kareem, Magic, Nixon, Wilkes, Cooper, Rambis, drafted Worthy; lost to Philly.
‘84 Kareem, Magic, Cooper, Worthy, Wilkes, traded Nixon for rookie Scott; lost to Boston.
‘85 Kareem, Magic, Cooper, Scott, Rambis, Worthy, Wilkes, drafted AC Green; beat Boston
‘86 Same main guys as ‘85.
‘87 Same main guys as ‘86, plus Mychal Thompson; beat Boston.
‘88 The same main guys, minus Rambis who was selected by expansion franchise Charlotte. Beat Detroit
‘89 - Same main guys again. Were undefeated in the playoffs and would have won again until Byron and Magic pulled hamstrings , then got swept.

Year after year, they maintained necessary and balanced aspects of attacking from the inside, rebounding, fast breaking, defending, outside shooting, and effective point guard play.

They always drafted low because they were a top team every year, but they used their picks on guys like Milt Wagner and David Rivers. Worthy and AC were the best they could do, and they were never traded.

Ultimately, they had continuity that Lebron’s Lakers have never had and it’s not even close.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 10:47 am    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
2. No chemstry needed in 2019 with brand new team and brand new headcoach. Lakers just hit the ground running and never looked back so chemistry is just an excuse. If you're good and you execute, you win. No chemistry bs.

Nuggets just lucked out Joker just like Milwaukee with Giannis. Hopefully, they will also be one and done as far as winning championships is concerned.

Just because you don’t think about it, doesn’t mean teams don’t have chemistry. The right balance of big, medium, small, defense, shooting, speed, and pg play isn’t automatic.

Joker wouldn’t have won by himself. He doesn’t play good defense, nor does Murray. The Nuggets valued but traded Gary Harris & more for Aaron Gordon, and he effectively guarded Lebron and Butler, He learned to shoot like never before. KCP obviously put the work in and also shot lights out while helping them improve their defense.

2 really good defenders, 2 really good offensive players, and role players who do a little bit of each.

Without what you call chemistry bs, you have squads like the Lakers did last year, with more guards than Buckingham Palace. They didn’t get very far.
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