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Kblo247!
Star Player
Joined: 05 Oct 2015
Posts: 3946
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 Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | | WorthyNum1 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | We overpaid for AD.
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We didn't overpay for AD.
Now I suspect someone is using different aliases to keep preaching the "We overpaid for AD" nonsense. That's only my suspicion, no proof yet. However, the style and the tune are so similar...
However, I am entitled to take my action based on my suspicion.
So I'll let you know, no matter what account you use to preach this "We overpaid for AD", I'll retort. You can count on it... |
AD has never shown with the Lakers that he's able to consistently be the #1 option and HE could lead a team to the playoffs.
He's no Kareem, Shaq, or Pau who all have consistently led teams to the playoffs as the #1 option.
AD is 22-28 without Lebron, and has not shown he could remain healthy.
Also, he was a free agent the following year and Lakers had leverage.
He's not a player you throw the house at, especially if you have leverage and he's gonna be a FA.
It is what it is now. I'm more about Lakers FO getting better.
Lakers FO did better with the past trade deadline where they weren't gonna overpay and thought about now AND the future. |
It is hard to compare Pau and AD. Pau got you to the playoffs but went 0-12 without Kobe and then he couldn’t win a playoff game in LA without Kobe. AD has won playoff games, he’s won a playoff series before Lebron, and he carried Lebron through the playoffs. Lebron has not won a playoff game in LA or played in one without AD. He and Pau are polar opposites |
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BILBJH
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2020
Posts: 5129
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| WorthyNum1 wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: |
Maybe you think someone is using an alter ego because you are the one who came out of nowhere using an alt.
I personally can say I'm not the same person as Outspoken.
Don't know how to prove it other than asking why I would have the foresight to make 8000 posts on one account in 2015 and then 4600 posts on an account starting in 2020... lie in wait for three years, only to begin to suddenly join forces against a 100 post account who doesn't even make any decent, original arguments.
You sound unhinged, dude. I don't which account hurt you so much in the past, but you aren't making any sense. |
Well, you try to tell us that you and Outspoken aren't the same person? I have no proofs, but you can be as defensive as you want. No matter what, I'll respond based on my suspicion, whenever any one of your alter egos makes a post saying "The Lakers overpaid for AD".
At least my argument smash your argument to pieces, make you totally defenseless when using your own words against you, like what you said at 10:41 on 5/27/2023:
"I never said there was a guarantee. I said that's what I preferred."
I used this statement against you in a post at 02:51 on 5/31/2023. You dare not respond. Is it because your argument is garbage to begin with? |
I stand corrected, I did not realize that only one person in the universe can hold the opinion that The Lakers overpaid for AD at one time.
With that kind of logic, how dare I try to debate with someone like you. |
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WorthyNum1
Starting Rotation
Joined: 25 Sep 2012
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: | | WorthyNum1 wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: |
Maybe you think someone is using an alter ego because you are the one who came out of nowhere using an alt.
I personally can say I'm not the same person as Outspoken.
Don't know how to prove it other than asking why I would have the foresight to make 8000 posts on one account in 2015 and then 4600 posts on an account starting in 2020... lie in wait for three years, only to begin to suddenly join forces against a 100 post account who doesn't even make any decent, original arguments.
You sound unhinged, dude. I don't which account hurt you so much in the past, but you aren't making any sense. |
Well, you try to tell us that you and Outspoken aren't the same person? I have no proofs, but you can be as defensive as you want. No matter what, I'll respond based on my suspicion, whenever any one of your alter egos makes a post saying "The Lakers overpaid for AD".
At least my argument smash your argument to pieces, make you totally defenseless when using your own words against you, like what you said at 10:41 on 5/27/2023:
"I never said there was a guarantee. I said that's what I preferred."
I used this statement against you in a post at 02:51 on 5/31/2023. You dare not respond. Is it because your argument is garbage to begin with? |
I stand corrected, I did not realize that only one person in the universe can hold the opinion that The Lakers overpaid for AD at one time.
With that kind of logic, how dare I try to debate with someone like you. |
Add to the logic that these "someone" uses the similar tones...
1) claim that had we waited, we could have built a dynasty
2) totally ignore the ill-effects of the westbrick trade
3) use the Klutch argument
Don't you see it's suspicious? You can deny all you want. I'll respond based on my suspicions... |
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BILBJH
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2020
Posts: 5129
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| Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| WorthyNum1 wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: | | WorthyNum1 wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: |
Maybe you think someone is using an alter ego because you are the one who came out of nowhere using an alt.
I personally can say I'm not the same person as Outspoken.
Don't know how to prove it other than asking why I would have the foresight to make 8000 posts on one account in 2015 and then 4600 posts on an account starting in 2020... lie in wait for three years, only to begin to suddenly join forces against a 100 post account who doesn't even make any decent, original arguments.
You sound unhinged, dude. I don't which account hurt you so much in the past, but you aren't making any sense. |
Well, you try to tell us that you and Outspoken aren't the same person? I have no proofs, but you can be as defensive as you want. No matter what, I'll respond based on my suspicion, whenever any one of your alter egos makes a post saying "The Lakers overpaid for AD".
At least my argument smash your argument to pieces, make you totally defenseless when using your own words against you, like what you said at 10:41 on 5/27/2023:
"I never said there was a guarantee. I said that's what I preferred."
I used this statement against you in a post at 02:51 on 5/31/2023. You dare not respond. Is it because your argument is garbage to begin with? |
I stand corrected, I did not realize that only one person in the universe can hold the opinion that The Lakers overpaid for AD at one time.
With that kind of logic, how dare I try to debate with someone like you. |
Add to the logic that these "someone" uses the similar tones...
1) claim that had we waited, we could have built a dynasty
2) totally ignore the ill-effects of the westbrick trade
3) use the Klutch argument
Don't you see it's suspicious? You can deny all you want. I'll respond based on my suspicions... |
I rarely use dynasty in my argument. Maybe I've thrown that word out once in a blue moon, but I usually say we would be in a really good position with all those assets.
When did I ever ignore the ill effects of the Westbrook trade?
I personally advocated for Hield until the last minute. I celebrated during the short period where we thought we had him... was it ten minutes? was it an hour?
And then when Westbrook was announced, I posted mainly positive stuff.
I had an open mind... because I knew LBJ was getting old and he'd need a break. I didn't start complaining until the season went badly.
What's funny is people (mostly gone now) said I posted with a negative agenda... but I've always kept a positive mindset until things went wrong.
I also was positive when we acquired Dennis the first time.
I was positive when we got Dennis the second time for minimum wage.
I was positive when we traded for Rui and DLo.
I was initially negative about Rui at the beginning because I felt he lacked effort going for loose balls and rebounds, but then he played with ice in his veins most of the playoffs.
I was positive about DLo until he didn't play with ice in his veins and cost us a winnable series and probably our 18th title.
But I'm still thinking with a clear head, that we need to preserve the asset and will root for him if we keep him.
The word I hear over and over about myself in arguments is agenda.
I don't get how it's an agenda when I support players at the beginning until it goes wrong whether I disagree with the trade or signings or not.
But I digress... in terms of Westbrook and Klutch it all depends on how you view the team.
I believe LBJ and AD are mainly responsible for signing Russ over Hield.
I believe LBJ and AD are responsible for putting Rob in difficult positions that forced him to overpay on both major acquisitions.
It is less likely because LBJ is getting older and losing his clout, but we could still overpay a third time for someone like Kyrie or FVV
Just because you overpay when you are rich with assets, and still have a decent team... doesn't mean you didn't overpay.
OKC has something like 45 draft picks through 2029.
If they traded ten of them for AD.
Then two years later they traded seven for Westbrook.
Then two years later they traded seven for Kyrie...
Is it possible for them to overpay 3 times?
Is it possible for people to cherry pick and blame one trade for all the ills on one trade and ignore the damage by the other?
I don't ignore the damage of the Westbrook trade... it was simply the straw that broke the camel's back that might have been better tolerated if not for the first trade.
You guys can say we were a good team until AD got injured against Phoenix, but I never said we weren't a good team.
I never said we were a bad team after the AD trade and were doomed to miss the playoffs.
All I said is we paid too much and gave up our depth.
Said the same thing after the Russ trade.
Would say the same thing had we traded our depth for Kyrie.
The one common denominator in all those big blockbuster trades are the fingerprints of LBJ and Klutch's influence.
Now had we got AD for free the following season... I'd be singing the praises of Klutch.
Even if we got Kyrie for nothing... I'd be praising LBJ not Rob
But when they make us overspend and give up our depth for stars, damn right I'm going to b&tch about it.
You say I don't address some of your questions... you don't address some of mine.
How do I create an account, and make 8000 posts on 2015. Then create another on 2020 make another 5000... lie in wait until 2023 to waste my time on an alt with 100 posts so I can try to have back up on a topic almost the entire board has abandoned.
Have I somehow joined forces with this poster before?
Using Occam's razor I'd say more likely than this fanciful plan for me to try to win a argument using one or two accounts who to my knowledge I've never used in the past to argue with is that maybe the answer is that a few other people actually just agree with me.
But hey if you want to imagine I'd make 8000 posts with one account and then 5000 posts with another just to argue with you that Klutch made us overspend, then be my guest. |
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WorthyNum1
Starting Rotation
Joined: 25 Sep 2012
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: |
I rarely use dynasty in my argument. Maybe I've thrown that word out once in a blue moon, but I usually say we would be in a really good position with all those assets.
When did I ever ignore the ill effects of the Westbrook trade?
I personally advocated for Hield until the last minute. I celebrated during the short period where we thought we had him... was it ten minutes? was it an hour?
And then when Westbrook was announced, I posted mainly positive stuff.
I had an open mind... because I knew LBJ was getting old and he'd need a break. I didn't start complaining until the season went badly.
What's funny is people (mostly gone now) said I posted with a negative agenda... but I've always kept a positive mindset until things went wrong.
I also was positive when we acquired Dennis the first time.
I was positive when we got Dennis the second time for minimum wage.
I was positive when we traded for Rui and DLo.
I was initially negative about Rui at the beginning because I felt he lacked effort going for loose balls and rebounds, but then he played with ice in his veins most of the playoffs.
I was positive about DLo until he didn't play with ice in his veins and cost us a winnable series and probably our 18th title.
But I'm still thinking with a clear head, that we need to preserve the asset and will root for him if we keep him.
The word I hear over and over about myself in arguments is agenda.
I don't get how it's an agenda when I support players at the beginning until it goes wrong whether I disagree with the trade or signings or not.
But I digress... in terms of Westbrook and Klutch it all depends on how you view the team.
I believe LBJ and AD are mainly responsible for signing Russ over Hield.
I believe LBJ and AD are responsible for putting Rob in difficult positions that forced him to overpay on both major acquisitions.
It is less likely because LBJ is getting older and losing his clout, but we could still overpay a third time for someone like Kyrie or FVV
Just because you overpay when you are rich with assets, and still have a decent team... doesn't mean you didn't overpay.
OKC has something like 45 draft picks through 2029.
If they traded ten of them for AD.
Then two years later they traded seven for Westbrook.
Then two years later they traded seven for Kyrie...
Is it possible for them to overpay 3 times?
Is it possible for people to cherry pick and blame one trade for all the ills on one trade and ignore the damage by the other?
I don't ignore the damage of the Westbrook trade... it was simply the straw that broke the camel's back that might have been better tolerated if not for the first trade.
You guys can say we were a good team until AD got injured against Phoenix, but I never said we weren't a good team.
I never said we were a bad team after the AD trade and were doomed to miss the playoffs.
All I said is we paid too much and gave up our depth.
Said the same thing after the Russ trade.
Would say the same thing had we traded our depth for Kyrie.
The one common denominator in all those big blockbuster trades are the fingerprints of LBJ and Klutch's influence.
Now had we got AD for free the following season... I'd be singing the praises of Klutch.
Even if we got Kyrie for nothing... I'd be praising LBJ not Rob
But when they make us overspend and give up our depth for stars, damn right I'm going to b&tch about it.
You say I don't address some of your questions... you don't address some of mine.
How do I create an account, and make 8000 posts on 2015. Then create another on 2020 make another 5000... lie in wait until 2023 to waste my time on an alt with 100 posts so I can try to have back up on a topic almost the entire board has abandoned.
Have I somehow joined forces with this poster before?
Using Occam's razor I'd say more likely than this fanciful plan for me to try to win a argument using one or two accounts who to my knowledge I've never used in the past to argue with is that maybe the answer is that a few other people actually just agree with me.
But hey if you want to imagine I'd make 8000 posts with one account and then 5000 posts with another just to argue with you that Klutch made us overspend, then be my guest. |
First, it's my belief that you made 8000 posts with one account and 5000 posts with another, what can you do about it? You said "be my guest". I'll answer "sure". You notice one account was created in 2015 and the other created in 2020?
Second, at 10:47 on 5/28/2023, your own words:
"I'm not going to waste much energy on someone who doesn't stand for anything other than debating this one thread. But if he wants to waste his, then I'll let him burn himself out."
Still smarting that I keep rebutting you? Your bait that "if you don't waste your energy to argue, I might not respond to you and let you have the last say" doesn't work whatsoever. If you said you don't want to waste your time/energy, why do you keep eating your own words?. People who argue with me are forced to eat their own words. That's nothing new.
So when did you account for the ill-effects of the Westbrick trade to the so called "lack of depth"? I've repeatedly refute you on that. Had the AD trade depleted our depth, we wouldn't have
1) won the championship
2) had enough assets to trade for Westbrick
3) had enough assets to unload Westbrick and rebuild the team.
I didn't see you have any rebuttal on that.
Which issues you mentioned on the AD trade that I didn't address? Go ahead, show them. Now, don't wimp out and show that you mentioned the future of the Lakers, whether D'Lo or Rui are great pick-ups, etc. that I didn't address. I have no interest. I am only interested in smashing your "we overpaid for AD" nonsense.
Who gives a d*mn that you want Buddy Hield? it had nothing to do with the argument.
I take exception to your "we paid too much" nonsense. So as long as you say it, I'll rebut!!! You can keep coming up with lame, hypothetical examples like the Thunder one...
You admitted it yourself, at 10:41 on 5/27/2023:
"I never said there was a guarantee. I said that's what I preferred."
You even dare not guarantee that AD would come here. How would you preach that we could have signed AD as FA a year later? not to mention your bragging about AD + 'Bron + BI + 'Zo + Hart + Kuz would give us a great chance of multiple championships. As you admitted, it's only your BELIEF (my translation: pipe-dream). As I said, I believe otherwise. So it's your belief against mine.
OTOH, I can guarantee you that we used our assets back in 2019, we could get AD. It actually happened!!! |
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Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17109
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| Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| WorthyNum1 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | WorthyNum1 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | WorthyNum1 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | We overpaid for AD.
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We didn't overpay for AD.
Now I suspect someone is using different aliases to keep preaching the "We overpaid for AD" nonsense. That's only my suspicion, no proof yet. However, the style and the tune are so similar...
However, I am entitled to take my action based on my suspicion.
So I'll let you know, no matter what account you use to preach this "We overpaid for AD", I'll retort. You can count on it... |
AD has never shown with the Lakers that he's able to consistently be the #1 option and HE could lead a team to the playoffs.
He's no Kareem, Shaq, or Pau who all have consistently led teams to the playoffs as the #1 option.
AD is 22-28 without Lebron, and has not shown he could remain healthy.
Also, he was a free agent the following year and Lakers had leverage.
He's not a player you throw the house at, especially if you have leverage and he's gonna be a FA.
It is what it is now. I'm more about Lakers FO getting better.
Lakers FO did better with the past trade deadline where they weren't gonna overpay and thought about now AND the future. |
See, your tune is so similar to someone else (Bxxxxx) that using another account isn't going to save you.
He was a free agent the following year? but the Lakers had no leverage. Your alter ego said at 10:41 on 5/27/2023:
"I never said there was a guarantee. I said that's what I preferred."
Don't you remember? That's your alter ego's "personal preference". What did it have to do with the Lakers' leverage? Only a fool would think that his personal preference = the Lakers' leverage, that the Pels wouldn't do anything by the 2020 trade deadline and let AD walk as a free agent such that the Lakers could sign him for free...
So your leverage is already refuted by me. Now using another account is not going to save you...
I have no interest if the Lakers front office is getting better. I am only interested in arguing with 3 accounts (alter egos) who claimed that "the Lakers overpaid for AD". You know what I mean  |
This comment is so confusing and weird. Lol |
Not at all. Think about one person using multiple accounts posting the same message "We overpaid for AD", acting as if multiple people are joining forces on a topic... |
So is Outspoken doing the astroturfing, or is BILBJH?
_________________
On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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WorthyNum1
Starting Rotation
Joined: 25 Sep 2012
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | So is Outspoken doing the astroturfing, or is BILBJH? |
It doesn't matter one way or the other... |
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Outspoken
Star Player
Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8457
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| Kblo247! wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | WorthyNum1 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | We overpaid for AD.
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We didn't overpay for AD.
Now I suspect someone is using different aliases to keep preaching the "We overpaid for AD" nonsense. That's only my suspicion, no proof yet. However, the style and the tune are so similar...
However, I am entitled to take my action based on my suspicion.
So I'll let you know, no matter what account you use to preach this "We overpaid for AD", I'll retort. You can count on it... |
AD has never shown with the Lakers that he's able to consistently be the #1 option and HE could lead a team to the playoffs.
He's no Kareem, Shaq, or Pau who all have consistently led teams to the playoffs as the #1 option.
AD is 22-28 without Lebron, and has not shown he could remain healthy.
Also, he was a free agent the following year and Lakers had leverage.
He's not a player you throw the house at, especially if you have leverage and he's gonna be a FA.
It is what it is now. I'm more about Lakers FO getting better.
Lakers FO did better with the past trade deadline where they weren't gonna overpay and thought about now AND the future. |
It is hard to compare Pau and AD. Pau got you to the playoffs but went 0-12 without Kobe and then he couldn’t win a playoff game in LA without Kobe. AD has won playoff games, he’s won a playoff series before Lebron, and he carried Lebron through the playoffs. Lebron has not won a playoff game in LA or played in one without AD. He and Pau are polar opposites |
Pau Gasol didn't have Jrue and Rondo type players on his playoff team in Memphis.
If DeMarcus Cousins didn't go down, Pelicans would've had a good shot making it to the finals.
All the teams Pau lost to in the playoffs had their #1 optional star and another great caliber player, and coached great.
Spurs, Suns, and The Mavs.
1st year he got swept was to a great Spurs team.
Those Memphis teams had no business in the playoffs, but got there by defense, not offense.
Pau was pretty much the offense. |
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Kblo247!
Star Player
Joined: 05 Oct 2015
Posts: 3946
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | | Kblo247! wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | WorthyNum1 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | We overpaid for AD.
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We didn't overpay for AD.
Now I suspect someone is using different aliases to keep preaching the "We overpaid for AD" nonsense. That's only my suspicion, no proof yet. However, the style and the tune are so similar...
However, I am entitled to take my action based on my suspicion.
So I'll let you know, no matter what account you use to preach this "We overpaid for AD", I'll retort. You can count on it... |
AD has never shown with the Lakers that he's able to consistently be the #1 option and HE could lead a team to the playoffs.
He's no Kareem, Shaq, or Pau who all have consistently led teams to the playoffs as the #1 option.
AD is 22-28 without Lebron, and has not shown he could remain healthy.
Also, he was a free agent the following year and Lakers had leverage.
He's not a player you throw the house at, especially if you have leverage and he's gonna be a FA.
It is what it is now. I'm more about Lakers FO getting better.
Lakers FO did better with the past trade deadline where they weren't gonna overpay and thought about now AND the future. |
It is hard to compare Pau and AD. Pau got you to the playoffs but went 0-12 without Kobe and then he couldn’t win a playoff game in LA without Kobe. AD has won playoff games, he’s won a playoff series before Lebron, and he carried Lebron through the playoffs. Lebron has not won a playoff game in LA or played in one without AD. He and Pau are polar opposites |
Pau Gasol didn't have a Jrue and Rondo type players on his playoff team in Memphis.
All the teams Pau lost to in the playoffs had their #1 optional star and another great caliber player.
Mavs, Spurs, and the Suns.
Those Memphis teams had no business in the playoffs, but got there by defense, not offense.
Pau was pretty much the offense. |
Tracy got a game before with Mike Miller as his next best player. Pau went 0-16 in his first non 16 tries without Kobe … Prime Kobe could get a game with Smush and Kwame.
He won 15 playoff games without Kobe in his career and was a bench/role guy for some of them. He’s literally 15-34 all time without Kobe protecting him in the postseason. That’s a wild ass swing. And there was no point in their Laker career where Pau ever came close to carrying Kobe round to round like AD just did Bron or the bubble round or the 2-1 lead on Phoenix. Paus numbers as a Laker went down every round he played in on the road compared to home, so he wasn’t even consistent in that 3 year stretch as Kobes and Fishers and even Odoms went up on the road.
Pau was phenomenal. AD talent he was not. AD results he was not. Jrue Holiday missed games religiously while as a Pelican (but so do every Pelican or Hornet if you look back). Cousins he played with for a brief period. Rondo he had a limited window. His teams were never Mike Miller, Shane Battier, Jason Williams guys night in and out (all guys who won titles post Pau).
Pau has the weirdest spot ever. He got given more talent than Kobe or KG and guys got in their prime as a Griz, and he won regular season games. Then he never won a playoff game. He faked a back injury that healed with across country flight as he was out with a back when we traded for him, and he came to be Kobe’s second option. And as a second option he took the same amount of shots he took nightly as the guy in Memphis. He won his first playoff games and had success behind Kobe. He was never the leader or voice of the team. He was an all star and all nba guy with Kobe. Then he couldn’t win or lead without Kobe, and let’s be real Austin Reaves, Beasley, Troy Brown, Vando, Rui, Wenyen Gabriel is essentially what AD got this team back over 500 with with Bron and Russell out and that’s comparable to what Pau had when Kobe tore his Achilles. He went to the Bulls and had a good year or two and then fell our favor. Went to the spurs early and fell out favor and started getting benched and DNPs. And in his case with the grizzlies, Zach Randolph and his brother Marc will always be remembered for producing the same numbers and winning more than him. He’s the one guy who you can look at as a whole career and say that’s a ball of famer because of his whole resume and international play, but had he not got with Kobe his nba career and resume would not be there. AD could retire today too and be in the hall of fame off his numbers, medal, title, and Kentucky run, but it’s not hard to say his nba career can pass Paus quite easily and his star impact has already surpassed Pau in the nba. |
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Outspoken
Star Player
Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8457
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| Kblo247! wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | Kblo247! wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | WorthyNum1 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | We overpaid for AD.
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We didn't overpay for AD.
Now I suspect someone is using different aliases to keep preaching the "We overpaid for AD" nonsense. That's only my suspicion, no proof yet. However, the style and the tune are so similar...
However, I am entitled to take my action based on my suspicion.
So I'll let you know, no matter what account you use to preach this "We overpaid for AD", I'll retort. You can count on it... |
AD has never shown with the Lakers that he's able to consistently be the #1 option and HE could lead a team to the playoffs.
He's no Kareem, Shaq, or Pau who all have consistently led teams to the playoffs as the #1 option.
AD is 22-28 without Lebron, and has not shown he could remain healthy.
Also, he was a free agent the following year and Lakers had leverage.
He's not a player you throw the house at, especially if you have leverage and he's gonna be a FA.
It is what it is now. I'm more about Lakers FO getting better.
Lakers FO did better with the past trade deadline where they weren't gonna overpay and thought about now AND the future. |
It is hard to compare Pau and AD. Pau got you to the playoffs but went 0-12 without Kobe and then he couldn’t win a playoff game in LA without Kobe. AD has won playoff games, he’s won a playoff series before Lebron, and he carried Lebron through the playoffs. Lebron has not won a playoff game in LA or played in one without AD. He and Pau are polar opposites |
Pau Gasol didn't have Jrue and Rondo type players on his playoff team in Memphis.
If DeMarcus Cousins didn't go down, Pelicans would've had a good shot making it to the finals.
All the teams Pau lost to in the playoffs had their #1 optional star and another great caliber player, and coached great.
Spurs, Suns, and The Mavs.
1st year he got swept was to a great Spurs team.
Those Memphis teams had no business in the playoffs, but got there by defense, not offense.
Pau was pretty much the offense. |
Tracy got a game before with Mike Miller as his next best player. Pau went 0-16 in his first non 16 tries without Kobe … Prime Kobe could get a game with Smush and Kwame.
He won 15 playoff games without Kobe in his career and was a bench/role guy for some of them. He’s literally 15-34 all time without Kobe protecting him in the postseason. That’s a wild ass swing. And there was no point in their Laker career where Pau ever came close to carrying Kobe round to round like AD just did Bron or the bubble round or the 2-1 lead on Phoenix. Paus numbers as a Laker went down every round he played in on the road compared to home, so he wasn’t even consistent in that 3 year stretch as Kobes and Fishers and even Odoms went up on the road.
Pau was phenomenal. AD talent he was not. AD results he was not. Jrue Holiday missed games religiously while as a Pelican (but so do every Pelican or Hornet if you look back). Cousins he played with for a brief period. Rondo he had a limited window. His teams were never Mike Miller, Shane Battier, Jason Williams guys night in and out (all guys who won titles post Pau).
Pau has the weirdest spot ever. He got given more talent than Kobe or KG and guys got in their prime as a Griz, and he won regular season games. Then he never won a playoff game. He faked a back injury that healed with across country flight as he was out with a back when we traded for him, and he came to be Kobe’s second option. And as a second option he took the same amount of shots he took nightly as the guy in Memphis. He won his first playoff games and had success behind Kobe. He was never the leader or voice of the team. He was an all star and all nba guy with Kobe. Then he couldn’t win or lead without Kobe, and let’s be real Austin Reaves, Beasley, Troy Brown, Vando, Rui, Wenyen Gabriel is essentially what AD got this team back over 500 with with Bron and Russell out and that’s comparable to what Pau had when Kobe tore his Achilles. He went to the Bulls and had a good year or two and then fell our favor. Went to the spurs early and fell out favor and started getting benched and DNPs. And in his case with the grizzlies, Zach Randolph and his brother Marc will always be remembered for producing the same numbers and winning more than him. He’s the one guy who you can look at as a whole career and say that’s a ball of famer because of his whole resume and international play, but had he not got with Kobe his nba career and resume would not be there. AD could retire today too and be in the hall of fame off his numbers, medal, title, and Kentucky run, but it’s not hard to say his nba career can pass Paus quite easily and his star impact has already surpassed Pau in the nba. |
When AD made the playoffs in 2017-18, Jrue and Rondo was pivotal to that team making the playoffs.
The acquisition of Nikola Mirotić after Cousins went down.
If Cousins doesn't go down, they have a good shot at making the playoffs.
That was a really good team.
Jrue's healthiest season was when Pelicans went to the playoffs.
Though the season before, AD had good health, a decent team and they finished below .500.
Without Jrue, he went 2-9 to start the season.
Not that it made a difference when Jrue came back, even though they were better with him, but it was AD's team.
They had no Rondo leading the team.
Kobe was in his prime with Pau, Kobe's team, and not the same type of player as LeBron.
At this point of LeBron's career, he wants to be carried.
But as record shown, Lakers have a better shot making the playoffs with LeBron than without him, with AD as #1 option.
And AD is supposed to be in his prime.
I wouldn't use that as an example.
I wouldn't compare wings to bigs; like a Pau because Pau was a down low, post player. He needed players to get him the ball.
Where as wings (Tracey and Kobe) could make plays on their own.
Also why I said Pau didn't have Jrue and Rondo great caliber of players. When I said that, I meant in the playoffs, but even in the regular season.
Mike Miller wasn't a creation on the dribble type of player, he was catch and shoot.
Which to me would makes AD's case of pushing his teams to the playoffs more likely because he is a dribbling big and can catch the ball at different spots; from the block to above the arc.
But that's not the case because he lacked, lacks good health, but more so fundamental big man skill and still has no go to move.
He would be much more effective if he had some back to the basket moves, but he doesn't because he relies heavily on athleticism.
He has a hard time passing out of the double team because he doesn't play back to the basket and looking to face up and use his athleticism.
Why in even these playoffs AD was wildly inconsistent offensively and have a hard time playing center.
Not saying Pau was perfect or AD should be perfect, but I'm saying what stops AD from consistently propelling a team to the playoffs as the #1 option opposed to a skilled player like Pau.
The playoffs will tell you about your team. |
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:20 am Post subject: |
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Pelinka didn’t have to have the best offer because he had the only offer. Yet he kept doubling down on more, more, more. Rookie move.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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BILBJH
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Joined: 23 Jul 2020
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| WorthyNum1 wrote: |
OTOH, I can guarantee you that we used our assets back in 2019, we could get AD. It actually happened!!! |
If you get rich buying a lotto ticket... it actually happens.
Does that mean you automatically made the best financial decision buying a lotto ticket?
I've explained this over and over yet you still can't grasp it.
A good outcome doesn't always mean you made the best choice.
I'm guessing you are just lonely and want attention.
Well, I usually read this site once a day for Lakers news anyway, so I might as well do a good deed while I'm here. |
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WorthyNum1
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Posts: 168
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: | | WorthyNum1 wrote: |
OTOH, I can guarantee you that we used our assets back in 2019, we could get AD. It actually happened!!! |
If you get rich buying a lotto ticket... it actually happens.
Does that mean you automatically made the best financial decision buying a lotto ticket?
I've explained this over and over yet you still can't grasp it.
A good outcome doesn't always mean you made the best choice.
I'm guessing you are just lonely and want attention.
Well, I usually read this site once a day for Lakers news anyway, so I might as well do a good deed while I'm here. |
Your idiotic lottery example doesn't work. Are you using the analogy of "getting AD" = "winning the lottery"? I bet you dare not answer ...
We made an offer that the Pelicans accepted, AS A FACT. You have proofs in a parallel universe that we made a lesser offer that they also accepted?
You suggested a hypothetical move that you yourself confessed that it's not a guarantee. It's "what you preferred". It's just your belief.
I used this to rebut you but seems like you are totally defenseless...
What does "what you prefer" have to do with the Lakers' FO moves? are you Jennie Buss?
Last edited by WorthyNum1 on Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Pelinka didn’t have to have the best offer because he had the only offer. Yet he kept doubling down on more, more, more. Rookie move. |
If I go to the Bentley dealer and offer him $200.00 for a new Flying Spur Hybrid, he'll turn me down even though there are no other customers in the showroom.
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ThePageDude
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 2600
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Pelinka didn’t have to have the best offer because he had the only offer. Yet he kept doubling down on more, more, more. Rookie move. |
If I go to the Bentley dealer and offer him $200.00 for a new Flying Spur Hybrid, he'll turn me down even though there are no other customers in the showroom. |
True.
I think there's some merit though to the criticism of Magic's prior very *public* (NON) negotiation where he basically offered the kitchen-sink. That likely established a yardstick by which Nawlins measured all later offers.
That's analogous to the Bentley dealer having read your public tweet "I got 350k ready to roll for a Flying Spur Hybrid baby!" |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Pelinka didn’t have to have the best offer because he had the only offer. Yet he kept doubling down on more, more, more. Rookie move. |
If I go to the Bentley dealer and offer him $200.00 for a new Flying Spur Hybrid, he'll turn me down even though there are no other customers in the showroom. |
Maybe not if he has to sell the Bentley or lose it for nothing. $200 is always greater than $0. NO wasn’t giving AD away but as we’ve seen from Pelinka in his Laker tenure, he hasn’t reconciled himself to understand that he is representing the team, not the player. Hopefully he is learning.
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BILBJH
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Joined: 23 Jul 2020
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| WorthyNum1 wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: | | WorthyNum1 wrote: |
OTOH, I can guarantee you that we used our assets back in 2019, we could get AD. It actually happened!!! |
If you get rich buying a lotto ticket... it actually happens.
Does that mean you automatically made the best financial decision buying a lotto ticket?
I've explained this over and over yet you still can't grasp it.
A good outcome doesn't always mean you made the best choice.
I'm guessing you are just lonely and want attention.
Well, I usually read this site once a day for Lakers news anyway, so I might as well do a good deed while I'm here. |
Your idiotic lottery example doesn't work. Are you using the analogy of "getting AD" = "winning the lottery"? I bet you dare not answer ...
We made an offer that the Pelicans accepted, AS A FACT. You have proofs in a parallel universe that we made a lesser offer that they also accepted?
You suggested a hypothetical move that you yourself confessed that it's not a guarantee. It's "what you preferred". It's just your belief.
I used this to rebut you but seems like you are totally defenseless...
What does "what you prefer" have to do with the Lakers' FO moves? are you Jennie Buss? |
Yes, I'm also Jeanie Buss and Ventura Lakers Fan.
I'm also Spartacus.
Don't blame me if you can't understand a simple analogy.
See you tomorrow. |
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WorthyNum1
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Joined: 25 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2023 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: |
Yes, I'm also Jeanie Buss and Ventura Lakers Fan.
I'm also Spartacus.
Don't blame me if you can't understand a simple analogy.
See you tomorrow. |
Your simple analogy is garbage.
You dare not tell us that "trading for AD" = "winning the lottery"?
Of course not, because if it is, how could we overpay for him. You choose to avoid the question? It means your analogy is shot.
And what about your own words of not wasting your energy on me? Tomorrow has more energy to waste ....
At 10:47 on 5/28/2023, your own words:
"I'm not going to waste much energy on someone who doesn't stand for anything other than debating this one thread. But if he wants to waste his, then I'll let him burn himself out."
Last edited by WorthyNum1 on Mon Jun 05, 2023 3:02 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Halflife
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Dr. Laker
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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So, after the FA dust is settled, in July, 2023, the Lakers have AD & Jaxson Hayes, while the Pels have:
Ingram
2024 #2 (remains of Lonzo)
Dyson Daniels
Herbert Jones
2024 #1
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On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | So, after the FA dust is settled, in July, 2023, the Lakers have AD & Jaxson Hayes, while the Pels have:
Ingram
2024 #2 (remains of Lonzo)
Dyson Daniels
Herbert Jones
2024 #1 |
Was Herb Jones the result of the Lakers? Did we also include 2nd rounders?
But yeah, on the whole, not even a question to me. At the LEAST we got a championship and a WCF appearance. I think with our depth we can get back to the WCF and further depending on how the Nuggs retool.
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | So, after the FA dust is settled, in July, 2023, the Lakers have AD & Jaxson Hayes, while the Pels have:
Ingram
2024 #2 (remains of Lonzo)
Dyson Daniels
Herbert Jones
2024 #1 |
Was Herb Jones the result of the Lakers? Did we also include 2nd rounders?
But yeah, on the whole, not even a question to me. At the LEAST we got a championship and a WCF appearance. I think with our depth we can get back to the WCF and further depending on how the Nuggs retool. |
There were so many derivatives from the Hornets dealing Hunter (who we traded to them in the AD deal) that a through line to each piece is hard to establish. Part of the pieces we sent to them were used to acquire McCollum, part to get Jones, etc., so I put a relative value on everything as Jones and the #2 from Chicago.
My point is that NOLA screwed up/devalued/wasted most of what they got for AD, while the Lakers won a chip (and counting).
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gng930
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 11476
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 8:59 am Post subject: |
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We should focus on the deal from our perspective though. Until we win another championship and maybe after the 2024/2025 pick is made, nothing has really changed, no matter how much NO bungles things moving forward.
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