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| Reddish vs. Walker vs. Beasley |
| Reddish |
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36% |
[ 12 ] |
| Walker |
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33% |
[ 11 ] |
| Beasley |
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30% |
[ 10 ] |
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| Total Votes : 33 |
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nomoreshaq
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Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 5152
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 Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:04 am Post subject: Reddish vs. Walker vs. Beasley |
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Well - looks like they all took the min. Dennis & Gabe effectively cancel each other out (price and role and effectiveness) and Prince & TBJ (edge to Prince but they cost/position/role wise effectively cancel each other out). Bamba's probably getting the min so him and Hayes would also effectively cancel each other out (raw big men).
That means we presumptively added Reddish over Walker and Beasley - all min. salary guys. So which one is better and/or which one would you have taken?
Reddish - upside's there but overall he sucks? better body than the rest and maybe Ham/Handy unlocks him?
Beasley - he can shoot except when he can't.
Walker - loved his professionalism. hyper athlete. not sure why we didn't want him back. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:23 am Post subject: |
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Reddish is much worse than the other two, who are no great shakes themselves.
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SGSD32
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Cam is younger than the other two and has legitimate size and athleticism.
For the way this roster is constructed, I'll take him over the other two. |
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Hanging from Rafters
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Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 4543
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Reddish vs. Walker vs. Beasley |
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| nomoreshaq wrote: | Well - looks like they all took the min. Dennis & Gabe effectively cancel each other out (price and role and effectiveness) and Prince & TBJ (edge to Prince but they cost/position/role wise effectively cancel each other out). Bamba's probably getting the min so him and Hayes would also effectively cancel each other out (raw big men).
That means we presumptively added Reddish over Walker and Beasley - all min. salary guys. So which one is better and/or which one would you have taken?
Reddish - upside's there but overall he sucks? better body than the rest and maybe Ham/Handy unlocks him?
Beasley - he can shoot except when he can't.
Walker - loved his professionalism. hyper athlete. not sure why we didn't want him back. |
Shro - Vinc is a wash but Prince does not get the edge over TBjr, that’s a wash at best for Prince as TBjr is probably better since likely to improve at 23yrs old and already a much better rebounder (everything else about the same) whereas Prince is who he is going to be at 29yrs old. MoBa isn’t a wash with Hayes either since Hayes hasn’t really ever consistently shown anything where as MoBa showed promising potential in the 111 games just before the 9 game No-Show with the Lakers. We didn’t win any of those changes and lost the Cam - LWIV exchange. Beasley shouldn’t be considered as he just didn’t work out, including him would be as pointless as including Westbrook, it was obvious with both that we needed to part ways.
I can see how some will hope for Cam’s potential but LWIV’s play before his injury and then afterwards in the post season winning a game for the Lakers with superb shooting in the 4th quarter (4of6 from 3) has to give the nod to LWIV over Cam.
Had Rob got back LWIV/MoBa instead of Cam/Hayes it would get an A grade. As is, he gets a C grade for downgrading the back up SG spot and not fixing the non-AD minutes which was part of the teams biggest weakness.
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“When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.”
Last edited by Hanging from Rafters on Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:48 am; edited 2 times in total |
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ocho
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| SGSD32 wrote: | Cam is younger than the other two and has legitimate size and athleticism.
For the way this roster is constructed, I'll take him over the other two. |
Being able to play well is an underrated skill imo.
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LakerSD
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23803
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Reddish is much worse than the other two, who are no great shakes themselves. |
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SGSD32
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Posts: 532
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | SGSD32 wrote: | Cam is younger than the other two and has legitimate size and athleticism.
For the way this roster is constructed, I'll take him over the other two. |
Being able to play well is an underrated skill imo. |
Being able to develop players is an underrated organizational skill.
Who knows if Cam will do anything? But, to my mind.. the 1-5 guard spots are well spoken for already.. Cam would be the #4 wing.. absolutely the roster spot where you take a swing. |
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Hanging from Rafters
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Joined: 31 Jul 2018
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | SGSD32 wrote: | Cam is younger than the other two and has legitimate size and athleticism.
For the way this roster is constructed, I'll take him over the other two. |
Being able to play well is an underrated skill imo. |
Bwaaaaa! Lol! 🤣
Agree!!! The ability to play well is right after availability as the skill necessary to contribute.
Size and youth mean nothing if you can’t!!!
_________________
“When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.”
Last edited by Hanging from Rafters on Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:52 am; edited 2 times in total |
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activeverb
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Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:50 am Post subject: Re: Reddish vs. Walker vs. Beasley |
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| nomoreshaq wrote: | Well - looks like they all took the min. Dennis & Gabe effectively cancel each other out (price and role and effectiveness) and Prince & TBJ (edge to Prince but they cost/position/role wise effectively cancel each other out). Bamba's probably getting the min so him and Hayes would also effectively cancel each other out (raw big men).
That means we presumptively added Reddish over Walker and Beasley - all min. salary guys. So which one is better and/or which one would you have taken?
Reddish - upside's there but overall he sucks? better body than the rest and maybe Ham/Handy unlocks him?
Beasley - he can shoot except when he can't.
Walker - loved his professionalism. hyper athlete. not sure why we didn't want him back. |
I would have preferred them in this order: Walker, Beasley, Reddish.
That said, if all the Lakers would offer Walker and Beasley was the vet minimum, I get where they would go to teams where they will probably have more opportunity.
Both of them were marginalized at different points by the Lakers, so if the money's no better here, I would be looking for greener pastures with a fresh start if I were in their shoes. |
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Hanging from Rafters
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Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 4543
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| SGSD32 wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | SGSD32 wrote: | Cam is younger than the other two and has legitimate size and athleticism.
For the way this roster is constructed, I'll take him over the other two. |
Being able to play well is an underrated skill imo. |
Being able to develop players is an underrated organizational skill.
Who knows if Cam will do anything? But, to my mind.. the 1-5 guard spots are well spoken for already.. Cam would be the #4 wing.. absolutely the roster spot where you take a swing. |
Unless you need a 4th guard for injury insurance or match up flexibility that can start if necessary, possibly lead the team in scoring for a couple games, be a player that can win a post season game significantly exploding as a much better for a short period. LWIV did that. We don’t know what the future holds, but based on what has happened so far Cam hasn’t come close to showing he can even partially be as valuable as LWIV has been for the Lakers. Neither as MaxC or anyone else you erroneously include in the 1-5 guard positions spoken for. It’s Dlo/AR/Vinc…after thatThe Lakers downgraded at the 4th guard spot not bringing back LWIV.
_________________
“When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.” |
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nomoreshaq
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 5152
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 10:09 am Post subject: |
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| Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | SGSD32 wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | SGSD32 wrote: | Cam is younger than the other two and has legitimate size and athleticism.
For the way this roster is constructed, I'll take him over the other two. |
Being able to play well is an underrated skill imo. |
Being able to develop players is an underrated organizational skill.
Who knows if Cam will do anything? But, to my mind.. the 1-5 guard spots are well spoken for already.. Cam would be the #4 wing.. absolutely the roster spot where you take a swing. |
Unless you need a 4th guard for injury insurance or match up flexibility that can start if necessary, possibly lead the team in scoring for a couple games, be a player that can win a post season game significantly exploding as a much better for a short period. LWIV did that. We don’t know what the future holds, but based on what has happened so far Cam hasn’t come close to showing he can even partially be as valuable as LWIV has been for the Lakers. Neither as MaxC or anyone else you erroneously include in the 1-5 guard positions spoken for. It’s Dlo/AR/Vinc…after thatThe Lakers downgraded at the 4th guard spot not bringing back LWIV. |
Well, they are clearly betting on Christie being that 4th guard. Time will tell if it was a good choice or not. Fino as your 5th is probably fine. |
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nomoreshaq
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 5152
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Reddish vs. Walker vs. Beasley |
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| Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | nomoreshaq wrote: | Well - looks like they all took the min. Dennis & Gabe effectively cancel each other out (price and role and effectiveness) and Prince & TBJ (edge to Prince but they cost/position/role wise effectively cancel each other out). Bamba's probably getting the min so him and Hayes would also effectively cancel each other out (raw big men).
That means we presumptively added Reddish over Walker and Beasley - all min. salary guys. So which one is better and/or which one would you have taken?
Reddish - upside's there but overall he sucks? better body than the rest and maybe Ham/Handy unlocks him?
Beasley - he can shoot except when he can't.
Walker - loved his professionalism. hyper athlete. not sure why we didn't want him back. |
Shro - Vinc is a wash but Prince does not get the edge over TBjr, that’s a wash at best for Prince as TBjr is probably better since likely to improve at 23yrs old and already a much better rebounder (everything else about the same) whereas Prince is who he is going to be at 29yrs old. MoBa isn’t a wash with Hayes either since Hayes hasn’t really ever consistently shown anything where as MoBa showed promising potential in the 111 games just before the 9 game No-Show with the Lakers. We didn’t win any of those changes and lost the Cam - LWIV exchange. Beasley shouldn’t be considered as he just didn’t work out, including him would be as pointless as including Westbrook, it was obvious with both that we needed to part ways.
I can see how some will hope for Cam’s potential but LWIV’s play before his injury and then afterwards in the post season winning a game for the Lakers with superb shooting in the 4th quarter (4of6 from 3) has to give the nod to LWIV over Cam.
Had Rob got back LWIV/MoBa instead of Cam/Hayes it would get an A grade. As is, he gets a C grade for downgrading the back up SG spot and not fixing the non-AD minutes which was part of the teams biggest weakness. |
Prince>TBJ. Come on, esp for the next year where Prince can guard up and Troy clearly couldn't? I agree that Dennis/Gabe effectively cancel each other out.
As for Bamba and Hayes? They are both equally "busts". No one has even signed Bamba, his value in the league is not very high.
As for Reddish over Walker/Beasley - yeah, I'm not super happy about it. |
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nomoreshaq
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Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 5152
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 10:19 am Post subject: |
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Bamba vs. Hayes
275 games played vs. 241 games
18 MPG vs. 16.8 MPG
47/35/68 vs 62/28/71
5.8 rebounds vs. 4.0 rebounds
1.3 blocks vs. 0.7 blocks
7.5 points vs 7.5 points
Hayes is 2 years younger.
Hayes shoots better (other than the 3).
Bamba shoots the 3 better.
Bamba is the better rebounder and shot blocker. |
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BILBJH
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Joined: 23 Jul 2020
Posts: 5142
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 10:28 am Post subject: |
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What I don't get is with the constant scrutiny of high school athletes and all the one and done players... is how they get the number 2 recruit out of high school wrong all the time?
For awhile from 2005 to 2010... the number 2 high school players were KD, Klove, Jrue Holiday, John Wall, Kyrie
And then they started getting a lot of them wrong... Shabazz Muhammad, Mudiay, Skal Labissiere, Harry Giles
I mean I get that all young players mature at different rates, but it's still shocking how they can rank someone 2... that doesn't even become a decent player.
I'm going to think positive and hope this the year Cam turns it around... because so far I'm not seeing much from our number one pick and maybe we hit on Cam, MaxL or Castleton instead. |
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SGSD32
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | SGSD32 wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | SGSD32 wrote: | Cam is younger than the other two and has legitimate size and athleticism.
For the way this roster is constructed, I'll take him over the other two. |
Being able to play well is an underrated skill imo. |
Being able to develop players is an underrated organizational skill.
Who knows if Cam will do anything? But, to my mind.. the 1-5 guard spots are well spoken for already.. Cam would be the #4 wing.. absolutely the roster spot where you take a swing. |
Unless you need a 4th guard for injury insurance or match up flexibility that can start if necessary, possibly lead the team in scoring for a couple games, be a player that can win a post season game significantly exploding as a much better for a short period. LWIV did that. We don’t know what the future holds, but based on what has happened so far Cam hasn’t come close to showing he can even partially be as valuable as LWIV has been for the Lakers. Neither as MaxC or anyone else you erroneously include in the 1-5 guard positions spoken for. It’s Dlo/AR/Vinc…after thatThe Lakers downgraded at the 4th guard spot not bringing back LWIV. |
Lonnie absolutely came up big.
But.. again.. roster construction.
With Prince and Vincent added.. and Christie's growth.. I'm completely comfortable with the construction. I like Lonnie and wish him the best.. he did great in that GSW game.. and faded hard after that.
I don't think Christie's D will fade in the playoffs and I have a high degree of confidence his three won't either. But we'll see.
Cam's a wing.. he's not the replacement for either of those guys.. but as far as how this current roster is composed.. I'm absolutely fine with Reddish.
Your real comp is do you think Vincent, Christie & Fino are better or worse than Beas, Schro and Walker.
I think they're better, especially in the playoffs.. and I'm not counting on getting anything from Fino this year in the post season. |
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cital
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Joined: 25 May 2002
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| In my opinion, this was the one mistake the Lakers made this summer. We should have brought back Beasley (at a reduced price) instead of signing Reddish. If Wood doesn’t happen, I would still like to bring back Bamba as well. |
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2019
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Joined: 03 Dec 2014
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| cital wrote: | | In my opinion, this was the one mistake the Lakers made this summer. We should have brought back Beasley (at a reduced price) instead of signing Reddish. If Wood doesn’t happen, I would still like to bring back Bamba as well. |
Both could've happened. Completely different positions.
Perhaps Malik didn't like Lakers not picking up his option after benching him all playoffs and would rather take the minimum from the team who can promise him big mins versus not knowing if he'll even sniff mins here. |
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alleyoop
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Look, Reddish is definitely behind the other two, but I understand the reasoning behind the move - the others probably wanted guaranteed playing time, and with DLo/Reaves/Gabe, we couldn’t guarantee more than 10 minutes a game
Someone like Reddish is easier to sign, as he’s more of a flyer signing. Hopefully he turns out okay
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Hanging from Rafters
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Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 4543
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| nomoreshaq wrote: | | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | SGSD32 wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | SGSD32 wrote: | Cam is younger than the other two and has legitimate size and athleticism.
For the way this roster is constructed, I'll take him over the other two. |
Being able to play well is an underrated skill imo. |
Being able to develop players is an underrated organizational skill.
Who knows if Cam will do anything? But, to my mind.. the 1-5 guard spots are well spoken for already.. Cam would be the #4 wing.. absolutely the roster spot where you take a swing. |
Unless you need a 4th guard for injury insurance or match up flexibility that can start if necessary, possibly lead the team in scoring for a couple games, be a player that can win a post season game significantly exploding as a much better for a short period. LWIV did that. We don’t know what the future holds, but based on what has happened so far Cam hasn’t come close to showing he can even partially be as valuable as LWIV has been for the Lakers. Neither as MaxC or anyone else you erroneously include in the 1-5 guard positions spoken for. It’s Dlo/AR/Vinc…after thatThe Lakers downgraded at the 4th guard spot not bringing back LWIV. |
Well, they are clearly betting on Christie being that 4th guard. Time will tell if it was a good choice or not. Fino as your 5th is probably fine. |
Hope the bet pays off. For vet min it seems like it would have been a safer bet to have that expectation for a player that already did it in LWIV. Then plus MaxC and Fino as insurance…instead of going on a ship run hoping someone is different than the previous year.
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“When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.” |
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socalsp3
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Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 3509
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| Its a two way street players also have to want to sign with you. Just because you can sign them doesn't mean they will come back. |
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gng930
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 11:29 am Post subject: |
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I believe in shooting and regression so I went with Beasley.
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Hanging from Rafters
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Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 4543
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | cital wrote: | | In my opinion, this was the one mistake the Lakers made this summer. We should have brought back Beasley (at a reduced price) instead of signing Reddish. If Wood doesn’t happen, I would still like to bring back Bamba as well. |
Both could've happened. Completely different positions.
Perhaps Malik didn't like Lakers not picking up his option after benching him all playoffs and would rather take the minimum from the team who can promise him big mins versus not knowing if he'll even sniff mins here. |
Makes sense…I can see bad blood from Beas and LWIV…but I had hoped it was repaired with LWIV whereas I figured it was irreparable with Malik.
I would have liked to had seen more of a commitment to a ship run rather than the 75% effort…like we are accustomed to seeing from a small market budget franchise…so that we go after it like a historic Lakers franchise.
The really sad part is that it didn’t need to cost more to improve. Needed MoBa/LWIV instead of Cam/Hayes and the roster construction would look totally different betting on players that have shown what they can do instead of hoping for drastic improvements for projects.
_________________
“When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.” |
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nomoreshaq
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 5152
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | cital wrote: | | In my opinion, this was the one mistake the Lakers made this summer. We should have brought back Beasley (at a reduced price) instead of signing Reddish. If Wood doesn’t happen, I would still like to bring back Bamba as well. |
Both could've happened. Completely different positions.
Perhaps Malik didn't like Lakers not picking up his option after benching him all playoffs and would rather take the minimum from the team who can promise him big mins versus not knowing if he'll even sniff mins here. |
Makes sense…I can see bad blood from Beas and LWIV…but I had hoped it was repaired with LWIV whereas I figured it was irreparable with Malik.
I would have liked to had seen more of a commitment to a ship run rather than the 75% effort…like we are accustomed to seeing from a small market budget franchise…so that we go after it like a historic Lakers franchise.
The really sad part is that it didn’t need to cost more to improve. Needed MoBa/LWIV instead of Cam/Hayes and the roster construction would look totally different betting on players that have shown what they can do instead of hoping for drastic improvements for projects. |
Maybe the better comparison is:
Hayes/Cam/Christie/Bamba
vs.
Gabriel/Beasley/Walker/TT
presumably minimums vs minimums
Hayes>Gabriel
Bamba>TT
Christie>Lonnie? (idk)
Cam>Beasley? (idk) |
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venturalakersfan
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Posts: 144520
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | SGSD32 wrote: | Cam is younger than the other two and has legitimate size and athleticism.
For the way this roster is constructed, I'll take him over the other two. |
Being able to play well is an underrated skill imo. |
Unless you are elite at waving a towel.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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Cam has a higher ceiling than both.
Both have been more consistent than him.
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How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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