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oaktown_dimond
Star Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 1366
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 Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 7:46 am Post subject: |
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yup, time for Dwight to retire. he got his ring WITH THE LAKERS... which pisses off Shaq to no end. so mission accomplished. LOL!
| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | Kblo247! wrote: | | LakersRGolden wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | Lakers are always focused on one thing, Winning a Ring. . |
Disagree. This team isn't a championship contender. We need massive upgrades to be. Lets see what they do.
Keep a fun team or make tough decisions and build a legit contender. |
Agree that this team wasn't a championship team, but the focus was on winning a ring - even when Westbrook was on the team, as funny as this sounds |
Not really sure I can agree to that with a straight face considering the team they went out of their way to put together for the 21-22 season.
Nothing about those moves indicated wanting to win a ring. |
Frank lost the locker room the day Rondo left the locker room. The team was a 500 team for whatever criticism you can make of Russ, Melo, Dwight, Monk etc up until the day Rondo got traded. They were good enough for the play in and maybe playoffs too but Frank lost the room when Rondo wasn’t there anymore to hold it and police it.
Darvin had a similar problem this year. He never could hold the locker room with Russ, Bev, Nunn, Thomas so they got rid of them all for him and he went out his way to connect with Russell, Beasley, and others and build chemistry and trust.
It’s hard to say Pelinka didn’t give either team this year or last the pieces. They were basically playing 500 ball until Rondo was dealt even with injuries, so it was clear that even if the vets didn’t like Frank, they were good enough to hover around play in level and stayed engaged with Rondo on their ass. It’s an indictment on Frank those same guys would not listen to him without Kidd, Dudley, or Rondo in a room.
It’s hard to say Pelinka didn’t give Ham the peices. We can point to Rui, but look at what AD actually played with. Troy was a singing that played all all star break, Denis a signing, Lonnie a signing, Gabriel and Reaves on the team, and you had AD. Bron missed 5 weeks, Russell missed half the time post trade and Beasley lost time progressively. Bamba never played. Vando finished the season but couldn’t play past round 1. The playoff core was Denis, Bron, AD, Reaves, Lonnie, Rui, Russell, and Vando. Russell and Bando couldn’t play the last round. Most the moves that made the run were just about clearing a locker room to listen to the coach as he had the main talent in place already.
Pelinka would not even let cousins back after his workout Haynes said because he didn’t want the locker room problem, not that Cousins couldn’t play this year before Thompson got the spot. Pelinka needs a locker room police mostly, not a talent evaluator because his teams have been good enough every year … his coaches, all 3 of them including Luke have all just been too soft to manage loud mouths in their locker room |
Agree that Vogel lost the locker room, especially when Rondo was traded.
With the merry-go-around of head coaches from Darvin Ham to Frank Vogel ( 2020-2022) to Luke Walton (2017-2019) to Byron Scott (2015-2016) to Mike D'Antoni (2013-2014) to Mike Brown (2012-2013) since Phil Jackson (2006-2011). Then Frank Hamblen/Rudy Tomjanovich (2005) to Phil Jackson (2000-2004), in addition to the Jeannie/Jimmy Buss (Mitch Kupchak) soap opera with its ongoing dramatic roster moves - outside of Phil, there was no Laker Culture.
Hopefully with a stable FO and HC, Laker Culture can be rebuilt within a set system where role players can play freely because they know their responsibilities. As JVG said on the last broadcast, when there are no definitive roles, players have difficultities knowing their responsibilities hence have a daunting task of being efficient (i.e. Beasley, who has had a career of being a good shooter but failed miserably during the season/playoffs). It would have been great if Ham made it to the Finals, but the Nuggets (where Malone has been the HC for the Nuggets since 2015) have shown the value of continuity (along with the Heat). |
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WorthyNum1
Starting Rotation
Joined: 25 Sep 2012
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2023 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: |
Championship coaches Nick Nurse, Mike Budenholzer, WCF/Coach of the Year Monty Williams and Doc Rivers were fired. 3 of the last 4 championship-winning coaches (Budenholzer, Vogel and Nurse) were fired
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NBA coaches' (even championship coaches) job security is nothing to write home about...
As a matter of fact, before 2023, among the 7 coaches of the last 11 NBA champions, all of them have been fired unless his name is Kerr, Pops or Spoelstra.
2016 Lue fired
2019 Nurse fired
2020 Vogel fired
2021 Bud fired
The three not fired, Kerr, Pops and Spoelstra, are among the NBA 75th Anniversary Greatest Coaches of All Time...
Kerr - 2015, 2017, 2018, 2022
Pops - 2014
Spoelstra - 2012, 2013 |
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Lakeshow23_
Starting Rotation
Joined: 02 May 2021
Posts: 670
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2023 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| This series should have been a lot more competitive. Ham did a wonderful job this season but he missed the mark in this series. Didn't coach with the necessary urgency. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21563
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2023 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| Lakeshow23_ wrote: | | This series should have been a lot more competitive. Ham did a wonderful job this season but he missed the mark in this series. Didn't coach with the necessary urgency. |
If we would’ve started the regular lineup instead of small ball in game 1, things could’ve been a lot different. |
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Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 17063
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2023 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakeshow23_ wrote: | | This series should have been a lot more competitive. Ham did a wonderful job this season but he missed the mark in this series. Didn't coach with the necessary urgency. |
why? they are superior. I keep reading how it was competitive. If we floor the same team again next year in the postseason the result would be the same.
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Kobe.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Clw9scopegx/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= |
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17937
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2023 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | Lakeshow23_ wrote: | | This series should have been a lot more competitive. Ham did a wonderful job this season but he missed the mark in this series. Didn't coach with the necessary urgency. |
If we would’ve started the regular lineup instead of small ball in game 1, things could’ve been a lot different. |
FWIW, Jokic shot 29/64 (45%) after Game 1. His TS% was 53.2% after Game 1! Yeah, of course Jokic left his mark on the series one way or another, that's what generational players do. But once we let LeBron and Rui be Jokic's primary defender, we had a lot more success defensively (and indeed it seemed the Nuggets started letting Murray cook instead, which unfortunately we had no answers for).
I don't think we win either way. Having a center who can shoot (e.g. Bamba) might've made us even more effective, but ultimately our roster lacked an answer for Jamal Murray. But it is frustrating that some of us had been talking about putting Rui on Jokic from the start after how he guarded KAT but that vision wasn't there until after we were down big already. (Then again, I'm sure AD wanted to take the challenge of guarding Jokic, even though his biggest strength has always been as a weakside defender.) |
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Lakeshow23_
Starting Rotation
Joined: 02 May 2021
Posts: 670
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2023 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | Lakeshow23_ wrote: | | This series should have been a lot more competitive. Ham did a wonderful job this season but he missed the mark in this series. Didn't coach with the necessary urgency. |
If we would’ve started the regular lineup instead of small ball in game 1, things could’ve been a lot different. |
FWIW, Jokic shot 29/64 (45%) after Game 1. His TS% was 53.2% after Game 1! Yeah, of course Jokic left his mark on the series one way or another, that's what generational players do. But once we let LeBron and Rui be Jokic's primary defender, we had a lot more success defensively (and indeed it seemed the Nuggets started letting Murray cook instead, which unfortunately we had no answers for).
I don't think we win either way. Having a center who can shoot (e.g. Bamba) might've made us even more effective, but ultimately our roster lacked an answer for Jamal Murray. But it is frustrating that some of us had been talking about putting Rui on Jokic from the start after how he guarded KAT but that vision wasn't there until after we were down big already. (Then again, I'm sure AD wanted to take the challenge of guarding Jokic, even though his biggest strength has always been as a weakside defender.) |
Yup, probably wouldn't have been the difference between winning the series and merely extending it with the way Murray and their support players were shooting but the approach was maddening.
There was a complete lack of urgency when it came to pulling the plug on players that weren't contributing. The fact that Rui didn't start until we were down 3-0 is malpractice. We saw Kerr switch up his starting lineup in damn near every game of the Lakers/Warriors series while Ham stuck with a suboptimal starting lineup until the series was virtually over. |
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A Mad Chinaman
Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6177
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2023 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| WorthyNum1 wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | Championship coaches Nick Nurse, Mike Budenholzer, WCF/Coach of the Year Monty Williams and Doc Rivers were fired. 3 of the last 4 championship-winning coaches (Budenholzer, Vogel and Nurse) were fired |
NBA coaches' (even championship coaches) job security is nothing to write home about...
As a matter of fact, before 2023, among the 7 coaches of the last 11 NBA champions, all of them have been fired unless his name is Kerr, Pops or Spoelstra.
2016 Lue fired
2019 Nurse fired
2020 Vogel fired
2021 Bud fired
The three not fired, Kerr, Pops and Spoelstra, are among the NBA 75th Anniversary Greatest Coaches of All Time...
Kerr - 2015, 2017, 2018, 2022
Pops - 2014
Spoelstra - 2012, 2013 |
Agree
Malone and Spoelstra has shown what continuity can do - just like Kerr and Pops. Fascinating noting which teams have a clear direction and continuity that usually resulted in success. Putting together teams (i.e. KD/Booker/Beal, KD/Kyrie/Harden, etc.) are talented while playing like they are at an All-Star game.
Good thing is that TLue, Nurse, Vogel and Bud won't have any problems finding work - some of them already have |
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