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DaMuleRules
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 Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | In regards to keeping the hope alive:
One thing it did accomplish is it got other countries/entities involved.
| Quote: | More ships, equipment joining search for missing sub after reports of banging noises
And following reports of the noise, French researchers dispatched an unmanned robotic vehicle set to arrive this evening capable of hooking the sup to a cable that could tow it to the surface.
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| Quote: | French deep-sea robot reaches the search zone
The French ship carrying a deep-sea diving robot I mentioned a little earlier has reached the search area for the missing submersible.
The unmanned robot, called Victor 6000, can dive deeper than other equipment now at the site in the North Atlantic.
It also has arms that can be remotely controlled to cut cables or perform other maneuvers to release a stuck vessel.
The ROV's mother ship, the Atalante, is first using an echo-sounder to accurately map the seabed in order for the robot's search to be more targeted.
Ifremer, the company behind this vesssel, was part of the team that located the wreck of the Titanic in 1985
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| Quote: | | More ROVs from several countries have been deployed to the search site to assist. |
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More resources wasted and diverted from other activities for a wild goose chase. More importantly, lives needlessly put at risk; search and rescue operations on the open ocean present lots of potential dangers.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | As I said, due diligence is totally understandable. |
| DaMuleRules wrote: | | More resources wasted and diverted from other activities for a wild goose chase. More importantly, lives needlessly put at risk; search and rescue operations on the open ocean present lots of potential dangers. |
| DaMuleRules wrote: | | My criticism lies with allowing the the reports that there could be survivors to linger for so long... |
Sounds like the criticism is with the actual search and rescue efforts, not just the reports...
And how do you "understand the need for due diligence" while also calling it a needless, wasteful, wild goose chase?
Or maybe I'm not understanding your position, but was there an alternative way for the search and rescue team to carry out their due diligence without crossing over into "needless, wasteful, wild goose chase" territory?
From what I understood, they called off the search and rescue mission when they found the debris and confirmed the sub imploded.
What are the proper steps of due diligence to you?
To me, it means:
| Quote: | 1) Hear the implosion
2) Continue the search and rescue until they get confirmation
3) They confirmed that the Titan sub actually imploded
4) Called off the search and rescue |
That's pretty textbook due diligence to me. Where in there was the "needless, wasteful, wild goose chase" part? |
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999
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| since i heard the news it was missing i was checking the feeds every other hour hoping they would find it whole and in one piece where everyone survives. when i heard that they ran out of oxygen i was hoping somehow they had enough to be found in the 11th hour. when i heard there was an implosion and sub was gone. I hope the news was wrong. i feel so bad for the victims especially that teenager who didnt want to go on the sub to begin with. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | As I said, due diligence is totally understandable. |
| DaMuleRules wrote: | | More resources wasted and diverted from other activities for a wild goose chase. More importantly, lives needlessly put at risk; search and rescue operations on the open ocean present lots of potential dangers. |
| DaMuleRules wrote: | | My criticism lies with allowing the the reports that there could be survivors to linger for so long... |
Sounds like the criticism is with the actual search and rescue efforts, not just the reports...
And how do you "understand the need for due diligence" while also calling it a needless, wasteful, wild goose chase?
Or maybe I'm not understanding your position, but was there an alternative way for the search and rescue team to carry out their due diligence without crossing over into "needless, wasteful, wild goose chase" territory?
From what I understood, they called off the search and rescue mission when they found the debris and confirmed the sub imploded.
What are the proper steps of due diligence to you?
To me, it means:
| Quote: | 1) Hear the implosion
2) Continue the search and rescue until they get confirmation
3) They confirmed that the Titan sub actually imploded
4) Called off the search and rescue |
That's pretty textbook due diligence to me. Where in there was the "needless, wasteful, wild goose chase" part? |
Calling in additional resources (which you mentioned as a positive) when you are already aware of the likelihood of the outcome is not the due diligence I was referring to in what you quote. I was referring to keeping the presumed outcome quiet for awhile while you double checked it.
“Due” is defined as the proper amount. As I said, the more people you put into the efforts when it’s not necessary puts additional people at risk and diverts resources from other tasks. That’s not due diligence, it’s unwarranted.
As I also said above, hundreds of refugees died on a ship sinking in the Mediterranean around the same time because authorities didn’t think they were worthy of “due diligence”, much less a multi-national multitude of redundant resources. But they were simple migrants, not a handful of the privileged ultra wealthy on an “exciting adventure” to gawk at an underwater graveyard of a romanticized ship sinking. I can guarantee you no rich folk are going to go in a submersible to go look at the wreck that the hundreds of refugees died on.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| 999 wrote: | | since i heard the news it was missing i was checking the feeds every other hour hoping they would find it whole and in one piece where everyone survives. when i heard that they ran out of oxygen i was hoping somehow they had enough to be found in the 11th hour. when i heard there was an implosion and sub was gone. I hope the news was wrong. i feel so bad for the victims especially that teenager who didnt want to go on the sub to begin with. |
Teenager on sub took Rubik's Cube to break record, mother tells BBC
In her first interview, Mrs Dawood said she had planned to go with her husband to view the wreck of the Titanic, but the trip was cancelled because of the Covid pandemic.
"Then I stepped back and gave them space to set [Suleman] up, because he really wanted to go," she said.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Ok.
So, as long as the search and rescue was contained to only Canada and the US Coast Guard, that's due diligence.
But as soon as France got involved, then it became a "needless, wasteful, wild goose chase".
I don't know if the following story qualifies as being "due diligent":
| Quote: | US shoots down UK firm’s offer to help in search for Titanic sub as experts urge 11th-hour rethink
Urgent calls from explorers to reverse decision as ‘tapping sounds’ detected by sonar in search
The US Coastguard has rejected an offer of help from a UK firm which experts say may provide the "best hope" of finding the missing Titanic submarine, as the window of opportunity to rescue the five onboard rapidly closes.
British company Magellan Limited has had a deep-sea submersible craft “ready to support” the rescue mission since early on Monday, with the ability to reach depths of 6,000 metres and prior experience of visiting the Titanic wreckage site.
But the US First Coast Guard District told The Independent it has not requested assistance from the firm as the vessel, currently sat on a plane awaiting US clearance to be deployed, is too far away. |
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/titanic-submarine-missing-magellan-search-b2361519.html |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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There are three issues raised here:
1. Was it appropriate to continue or even intensify search after notification of potential implosion? Yes IMO. You don’t act on one unconfirmed data point, even a compelling one.
2. Should they have released the possible implosion data? Probably not, since you don’t have any other confirmation and you tend to keep silent about unconfirmed negatives out of respect for the family.
3. Is how this was handled, even if correctly, a stark reminder of privilege in light of the dearth of similar effort and coverage for the sinking refugee ship? Absolutely. The answer isn’t that they shouldn’t have taken the steps they took, but that they should have done so in both cases.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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It was stated that the reports of possible (but very far from definitively) human sounds instigated even more resources being committed to the search when data showed with a large degree of certainty that an implosion had occurred. That was stated to be an inherently correct thing. That is specifically what I am referring to. However, a greater response, involving more people and more craft from differing agencies, doesn’t necessarily create a better, more efficient response. In fact the opposite can be true, as more become involved, the communication can be bogged down, tasks duplicated, incorrect information can be magnified etc. And again, it diverts important resources from being on standby for other incidents. You don’t send every fire truck from every fire house in the city to a single house fire, even if there are people inside. MORE IMPORTANTLY, THE RISKS FOR THOSE INVOLVED IN PERFORMING DANGEROUS DUTIES INCREASES. A point you both keep ignoring in your responses.
A bigger response is not always a better response, particularly when it has been determined that the likely outcome is you have shifted from search and rescue to search and recovery.
A bigger response is not inherently a better response.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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DaMuleRules
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Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | 3. Is how this was handled, even if correctly, a stark reminder of privilege in light of the dearth of similar effort and coverage for the sinking refugee ship? Absolutely. The answer isn’t that they shouldn’t have taken the steps they took, but that they should have done so in both cases. |
Never said otherwise. I never stated they shouldn’t have tried to save the billionaires in the sub because they didn’t try to save the refugees. The point of mentioning it was to emphasize the disparity in the responses and the reasons for it.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2023 1:00 am Post subject: |
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I still don't understand how one can support due diligence, but pushback on it at the same time.
Due diligence to me means, treating the Titan submersible as if it were still alive, until they are confirmed dead. They had 96 hrs of oxygen, so time is of the essence.
I don't understand this big pushback on how they should carry out this due diligence.
Canada and the US can, but France can't get involved. ok? The UK wanted to get involved, but the US said no. So that was due diligent?
But the US letting France lend a hand in the search, that was over the line?
Yeah, I don't get it. I don't even get what is the target of the pushback.
The US Coast Guard was running the operation. They decided what resources they needed; they decided what help they'd accept from which other countries.
Is this pushback against the US Coast Guard's decision to accept help from France?
I don't get it. What is the source of all this discontent? That the US Coast Guard accepted help from France?
Bottomline, the US Coast Guard, in carrying out their duties of due diligence, decided that they could use France's help in the search. That's the bottomline.
Should the US Coast Guard be reprimanded for this decision? |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2023 7:06 am Post subject: |
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I understand not using some resources for security purposes. Secrecy is guarded. Trust is a must. There's so much we the public are not privy to.
My position is I hope the families were kept abreast of the true findings in real time. IMO keeping them completely in the dark would be wrong.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2023 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | I still don't understand how one can support due diligence, but pushback on it at the same time.
Due diligence to me means, treating the Titan submersible as if it were still alive, until they are confirmed dead. They had 96 hrs of oxygen, so time is of the essence.
I don't understand this big pushback on how they should carry out this due diligence.
Canada and the US can, but France can't get involved. ok? The UK wanted to get involved, but the US said no. So that was due diligent?
But the US letting France lend a hand in the search, that was over the line?
Yeah, I don't get it. I don't even get what is the target of the pushback.
The US Coast Guard was running the operation. They decided what resources they needed; they decided what help they'd accept from which other countries.
Is this pushback against the US Coast Guard's decision to accept help from France?
I don't get it. What is the source of all this discontent? That the US Coast Guard accepted help from France?
Bottomline, the US Coast Guard, in carrying out their duties of due diligence, decided that they could use France's help in the search. That's the bottomline.
Should the US Coast Guard be reprimanded for this decision? |
I explained the contexts, distinctions and reasoning very clearly. If you're unable/unwilling to understand them (and repeatedly ignore them), further discussion is pointless.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2023 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | ......further discussion is pointless. |
You are absolutely right, so please, don't explain anymore.
When a person's logic makes no sense, further explanation will continue to make no sense to me.
It is what it is.
Some people's logic makes no sense to me, and that's absolutely ok. I don't have to understand every person's logic.
Somehow, when France got involved, you got all hot and bothered. If France doesn't get involved, then that's due diligence. Whatever logic that is, I have no idea...
Whatever your opinion is, I'm going to trust that the US Coast Guard had to do what they had to do to get the job done. If they felt that a part of carrying out their due diligence was to accept France's help, then I'm fine with that.
That bothered you alot and been harping on it for days now. It doesn't bother me. So it is what it is. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 6:16 am Post subject: |
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^^^
What part of “further discussion is pointless” were you also unable to understand? Like everything else I said, it’s not hard . . . unless of course your goal is to be a contrarian troll . . .
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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| Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 7:17 am Post subject: |
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^^^
You’re absolutely always free to refrain from “further discussions and explanations” anytime you want.
I hold absolutely no control over that.
Again, if you feel further discussions and explanations are pointless, then by all means don’t further explain yourself.
I’m absolutely ok with not understanding a person’s illogical points…
My opinion doesn’t matter. I wonder if anyone else in here has a problem with the US Coast Guard accepting help from France. I really truly wonder. You might be the ONLY one in here so hot and bothered by this.
I’ll even pose this question to everyone in this thread: anyone in here bothered by the US Coast Guard accepting help from France as they carried out their duties of due diligence? |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 7:31 am Post subject: |
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^^^
Cat Fight  
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2023 8:54 am Post subject: |
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Those of us who have experienced bioluminescence in deep, open water know how eerily gorgeous that must have been:
DOOMED TITANIC SUBMERSIBLE
5 PASSENGERS WERE IN DARKNESS ...
Frightening new details have emerged about the 5 people trapped inside the Titanic-bound sub ... and what they experienced leading up to their deaths, which was nothing less than a nightmare come true.
The doomed passengers were engulfed in darkness the entire time they were inside the Titan submersible while descending into the depths of the North Atlantic Ocean to view the wreckage of the Titanic on June 18, according to the New York Times.
. . .
Christine Dawood, whose husband Shahzada and son Suleman also perished, told the NYT .... Rush turned off all the floodlights on the way down to the ocean floor to conserve battery power for the tour of the Titanic, leaving the passengers in almost total darkness.
Dawood said the only light in the sub came from glowing marine organisms, such as flaming fungus, shimmering squid, and flashing fish. She noted laptop computer screens provided slightly more illumination, but that was it.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2023 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Frightening new details have emerged about the 5 people trapped inside the Titanic-bound sub ... and what they experienced leading up to their deaths, which was nothing less than a nightmare come true.
The doomed passengers were engulfed in darkness the entire time they were inside the Titan submersible while descending into the depths of the North Atlantic Ocean to view the wreckage of the Titanic on June 18, according to the New York Times. |
Not sure I see the "frightening" part, other than the submersible imploding.
They were in darkness for around 1:45 hours?
| Quote: | | Dawood said the only light in the sub came from glowing marine organisms, such as flaming fungus, shimmering squid, and flashing fish. |
Sounds more amazing than frightening. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2023 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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LINK
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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C M B
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2023 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | marine organisms, such as flaming fungus, shimmering squid, and flashing fish.
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Additional information released indicates that they also saw astonishing anemones, brilliant baracudas, captivating corals, and dazzling dolphins.
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| Sister Golden Hair wrote: | LAMAR ODOM is an anagram for ... DOOM ALARM
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| C M B wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | marine organisms, such as flaming fungus, shimmering squid, and flashing fish.
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Additional information released indicates that they also saw astonishing anemones, brilliant baracudas, captivating corals, and dazzling dolphins. |
But not impending implosion, catastrophic crushing, absolute asphyxiation, or failure to float.
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C M B
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| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | C M B wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | marine organisms, such as flaming fungus, shimmering squid, and flashing fish.
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Additional information released indicates that they also saw astonishing anemones, brilliant baracudas, captivating corals, and dazzling dolphins. |
But not impending implosion, catastrophic crushing, absolute asphyxiation, or failure to float. |
They were the kind of people who brandished billions, foresook foresight, and relished risk.
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| Sister Golden Hair wrote: | LAMAR ODOM is an anagram for ... DOOM ALARM
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