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Denny_Russo
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 Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2023 7:51 pm Post subject: *** 2024 NBA Finals Discussion thread - Mavs vs Celtics *** |
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We're only 12 days from the season opener, so might as well start this early.
We can discuss preseason games in the meantime.
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Last edited by Denny_Russo on Thu May 30, 2024 7:56 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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lordtrapula
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2023 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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it's early but boy the pelicans look stinky
stuff like this is not helping either
https://x.com/cclark_13/status/1712666173467197759?s=20
| Quote: | | Willie Green on Zion having 1 shot attempt at half: “We need to talk about it. We have to get the ball in his hands. Hadn’t put any sort of half-court sets in yet for him. But we need to put the ball in his hands. We know that. That’s something we will continue to do." |
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drae
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2023 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Wemby's steal, the behind the back dribble, then his alleyoop pass was a lot of fun. In fact Wemby v Chet was a lot of fun. If they stay healthy they're going to dominate the league in a few years time. |
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 5:50 am Post subject: |
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Houston is going to surprise imo.
They got the veteran backbone now to allow the rising young guys they have to do their thing. |
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Denny_Russo
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 7:03 am Post subject: |
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Pels fans already turning on Zion. 
| Quote: | | I know it's preseason, but Zion is horrific on defense. Lazy, barely boxes out and regularly loses his man. Can't have him anchoring a defense at the 5 like that. |
| Quote: | | Amazing that a guy who is a millionaire and who’s job is to be in basketball shape, and says he’s changed and focused every year, has to play himself into shape, almost sounds like the guy doesn’t take it serious |
| Quote: | I've been scratching my head at the "Zion at the 5" since it suddenly became a hot trend.
Zion is not a center, nor is he a great defender, so it just won't work. We also have minimal shooting, especially with Trey out. Never made a lick of sense. |
| Quote: | | I just find it funny that whenever Zion is lazy or doesn’t do well in an off ball role we blame everyone constantly, and never have a go at him, and just take what he says that ‘he’s changed’, I hate that no one actually admits that he’s lazy as hell, his cardio is terrible. If any other player had to ‘play themselves into shape’ we’d slaughter them. I’ve never been sold on Zion, to me (and most people won’t agree) he’s a one trick pony |
| Quote: | | Yep. So many people here have bent over backwards to defend a guy whose objectively lazy and will act like it’s fat shaming to believe an incredibly well paid and privileged athlete should be in the shape required of them to do their (bleep) job. |
The rot starts at the top. Management coddles him to the point where he doesn't care and would rather screw pornstars. Their media doesn't hold him accountable. All I wish is for BI to get the hell out of there or demand a trade. He's wasting his prime on a poverty franchise.
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ocho
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| Denny_Russo wrote: | Pels fans already turning on Zion.
| Quote: | | I know it's preseason, but Zion is horrific on defense. Lazy, barely boxes out and regularly loses his man. Can't have him anchoring a defense at the 5 like that. |
| Quote: | | Amazing that a guy who is a millionaire and who’s job is to be in basketball shape, and says he’s changed and focused every year, has to play himself into shape, almost sounds like the guy doesn’t take it serious |
| Quote: | I've been scratching my head at the "Zion at the 5" since it suddenly became a hot trend.
Zion is not a center, nor is he a great defender, so it just won't work. We also have minimal shooting, especially with Trey out. Never made a lick of sense. |
| Quote: | | I just find it funny that whenever Zion is lazy or doesn’t do well in an off ball role we blame everyone constantly, and never have a go at him, and just take what he says that ‘he’s changed’, I hate that no one actually admits that he’s lazy as hell, his cardio is terrible. If any other player had to ‘play themselves into shape’ we’d slaughter them. I’ve never been sold on Zion, to me (and most people won’t agree) he’s a one trick pony |
| Quote: | | Yep. So many people here have bent over backwards to defend a guy whose objectively lazy and will act like it’s fat shaming to believe an incredibly well paid and privileged athlete should be in the shape required of them to do their (bleep) job. |
The rot starts at the top. Management coddles him to the point where he doesn't care and would rather screw pornstars. Their media doesn't hold him accountable. All I wish is for BI to get the hell out of there or demand a trade. He's wasting his prime on a poverty franchise. |
The problem with Zion was always going to be that he had so much success playing overweight (he dominated in the NBA overweight too) it was going to be tough to convince him to take his fitness seriously. If they failed to convince him to do that he was going to be an injury risk. That’s how it has played out. He’s a special talent and I hope he figures it out before the injuries mount to the point where it’s too late.
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Halflife
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tox
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | Houston is going to surprise imo.
They got the veteran backbone now to allow the rising young guys they have to do their thing. |
I honestly like their offseason. Brooks was a year too long for my taste but should be off the books by the time they want to compete and can serve as salary ballast in Year 3 or 4 (when FVV is off their books) anyway. $20M might not be a lot in the new salary cap too depending on how Brooks produce.
In the meantime they won't have a culture of losing like a lot of tanking teams do that they need to outgrow. I'm thinking about how Devin Booker took like 8 seasons to decide to play very good postseason defense, or how DLO only just started talking about really wanting to work on his defense. |
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Denny_Russo
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | Houston is going to surprise imo.
They got the veteran backbone now to allow the rising young guys they have to do their thing. |
Agreed. Udoka is a nice fit. |
Even though they lost in 2022, Boston with Udoka scared the crap out of me. At the very least, they wouldn't have lost to a weaker Miami team if he was there. I'm certainly not complaining, though. Plus, I think he talked some sense into Cam Whitmore and had him adjust his too cool for school attitude prior to the summer league. Cam played a more team oriented game and won the SL MVP as a result. Just highlights the importance of being drafted into good programs and having good mentors around you, *cough* Ja *cough*.
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | Houston is going to surprise imo.
They got the veteran backbone now to allow the rising young guys they have to do their thing. |
I honestly like their offseason. Brooks was a year too long for my taste but should be off the books by the time they want to compete and can serve as salary ballast in Year 3 or 4 (when FVV is off their books) anyway. $20M might not be a lot in the new salary cap too depending on how Brooks produce.
In the meantime they won't have a culture of losing like a lot of tanking teams do that they need to outgrow. I'm thinking about how Devin Booker took like 8 seasons to decide to play very good postseason defense, or how DLO only just started talking about really wanting to work on his defense. |
For sure they overpaid for Dillon and FVV, but I think it will pay off in the long run as the presence of those 2 with Udoka is going to help the young guys.
It’s not for a lack of talent.
That ass kicking of Pels yesterday should open a few eyes. Houston has had good, young talent that they added to with Thompson and Whitmore. They were just missing structured coaching and veterans.
I really feel like they could push for 9 or 10 in conference. |
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Basketball Fan
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| The Pacers will continue to be mediocre but I am also intrigued by Houston. They only have one national game this year though and it’s not the one at Boston go figure. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Basketball Fan wrote: | | The Pacers will continue to be mediocre but I am also intrigued by Houston. They only have one national game this year though and it’s not the one at Boston go figure. |
Pacers are long away from contention but as long as they have Haliburton they will be competitive and have a chance to make the play in |
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Denny_Russo
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Denny_Russo wrote: | Pels fans already turning on Zion.
| Quote: | | I know it's preseason, but Zion is horrific on defense. Lazy, barely boxes out and regularly loses his man. Can't have him anchoring a defense at the 5 like that. |
| Quote: | | Amazing that a guy who is a millionaire and who’s job is to be in basketball shape, and says he’s changed and focused every year, has to play himself into shape, almost sounds like the guy doesn’t take it serious |
| Quote: | I've been scratching my head at the "Zion at the 5" since it suddenly became a hot trend.
Zion is not a center, nor is he a great defender, so it just won't work. We also have minimal shooting, especially with Trey out. Never made a lick of sense. |
| Quote: | | I just find it funny that whenever Zion is lazy or doesn’t do well in an off ball role we blame everyone constantly, and never have a go at him, and just take what he says that ‘he’s changed’, I hate that no one actually admits that he’s lazy as hell, his cardio is terrible. If any other player had to ‘play themselves into shape’ we’d slaughter them. I’ve never been sold on Zion, to me (and most people won’t agree) he’s a one trick pony |
| Quote: | | Yep. So many people here have bent over backwards to defend a guy whose objectively lazy and will act like it’s fat shaming to believe an incredibly well paid and privileged athlete should be in the shape required of them to do their (bleep) job. |
The rot starts at the top. Management coddles him to the point where he doesn't care and would rather screw pornstars. Their media doesn't hold him accountable. All I wish is for BI to get the hell out of there or demand a trade. He's wasting his prime on a poverty franchise. |
The problem with Zion was always going to be that he had so much success playing overweight (he dominated in the NBA overweight too) it was going to be tough to convince him to take his fitness seriously. If they failed to convince him to do that he was going to be an injury risk. That’s how it has played out. He’s a special talent and I hope he figures it out before the injuries mount to the point where it’s too late. |
True. He's a ticking timebomb even when he dominates. Always one wrong landing away from blowing another hammy, due to his frame, weight and mobility issues, unfortunately. However, I don't put the blame on him entirely. It just seems like he's getting mixed messages from management and the training, medical and nutritional staff on what he's supposed to be doing or eating. If it were up to me, I'd put him on the keto diet with medical supervision and routine bloodwork. It has significant clinical backing as of now (see Virta Health). Plus, get him to work with Tim Grover who was renowned for helping Jordan and Kobe with their durability and injury woes. Everything about the Pels organization just screams complete and utter incompetence to me. I'm laughing at how delusional their fans are, too.
Agree that he's a special talent. The league needs Zion to succeed. I want him to reach his potential. Like Giannis and Jokic, it will be so good for the NBA to have another player climb to that tier. Hell, he's one of the reasons I got league pass, but now I'm just starting to care less and less. At least the Bucks and Suns will be interesting to watch and make up for it.
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Basketball Fan
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Basketball Fan wrote: | | The Pacers will continue to be mediocre but I am also intrigued by Houston. They only have one national game this year though and it’s not the one at Boston go figure. |
Pacers are long away from contention but as long as they have Haliburton they will be competitive and have a chance to make the play in |
I try not to get too attached to him he will leave like all the others not named Reggie Miller. I don't blame them the ownership is cheap and they are just fine being good enough. |
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drae
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defense
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| Aside from the Lakers going 82-0, looking forward to watching Chet and Wemby play. |
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lakersfever714
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 6:35 am Post subject: |
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I'm hoping we could win number 18 within the next three years before people start talking about Wempop and the Spurs every year. It doesn't get easier in the West.
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | I'm hoping we could win number 18 within the next three years before people start talking about Wempop and the Spurs every year. It doesn't get easier in the West. |
So basically petty pop is going to go from legend to fraud to legend on the backs of Duncan and Wembanyama |
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Denny_Russo
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | I'm hoping we could win number 18 within the next three years before people start talking about Wempop and the Spurs every year. It doesn't get easier in the West. |
Wemby will be a joy to watch as a NBA fan and recent league pass purchaser, but there will always be durability concerns. That's just the nature of big men in the NBA. There is no such thing as a guarantee in the NBA, especially in the modern game where athletes are going down like flies. I am surprised Jokic held up as well as he did, although he had plenty of help from his teammates.
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governator
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| Denny_Russo wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | I'm hoping we could win number 18 within the next three years before people start talking about Wempop and the Spurs every year. It doesn't get easier in the West. |
Wemby will be a joy to watch as a NBA fan and recent league pass purchaser, but there will always be durability concerns. That's just the nature of big men in the NBA. There is no such thing as a guarantee in the NBA, especially in the modern game where athletes are going down like flies. I am surprised Jokic held up as well as he did, although he had plenty of help from his teammates. |
Jokic got in shape
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defense
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Denny_Russo wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | I'm hoping we could win number 18 within the next three years before people start talking about Wempop and the Spurs every year. It doesn't get easier in the West. |
Wemby will be a joy to watch as a NBA fan and recent league pass purchaser, but there will always be durability concerns. That's just the nature of big men in the NBA. There is no such thing as a guarantee in the NBA, especially in the modern game where athletes are going down like flies. I am surprised Jokic held up as well as he did, although he had plenty of help from his teammates. |
Jokic got in shape |
Jokic moves like a snail and is heavy. Terrible comparison |
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lakersfever714
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Denny_Russo wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | I'm hoping we could win number 18 within the next three years before people start talking about Wempop and the Spurs every year. It doesn't get easier in the West. |
Wemby will be a joy to watch as a NBA fan and recent league pass purchaser, but there will always be durability concerns. That's just the nature of big men in the NBA. There is no such thing as a guarantee in the NBA, especially in the modern game where athletes are going down like flies. I am surprised Jokic held up as well as he did, although he had plenty of help from his teammates. |
Jokic has a like a 2-inch vertical. That's how you stay healthy as a big. Wemby doesn't jump that high either. EU bigs don't need athleticsm to dominate. They dominate with skills offensively. AD needs his elevation in order to dominate on the defensive end and that elevation is what causes most bigs to get hurt. The higher you jump, the harder you fall.
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Denny_Russo
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | Denny_Russo wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | I'm hoping we could win number 18 within the next three years before people start talking about Wempop and the Spurs every year. It doesn't get easier in the West. |
Wemby will be a joy to watch as a NBA fan and recent league pass purchaser, but there will always be durability concerns. That's just the nature of big men in the NBA. There is no such thing as a guarantee in the NBA, especially in the modern game where athletes are going down like flies. I am surprised Jokic held up as well as he did, although he had plenty of help from his teammates. |
Jokic has a like a 2-inch vertical. That's how you stay healthy as a big. Wemby doesn't jump that high either. EU bigs don't need athleticsm to dominate. They dominate with skills offensively. AD needs his elevation in order to dominate on the defensive end and that elevation is what causes most bigs to get hurt. The higher you jump, the harder you fall. |
Modern game is less about the vertical and more about the pace. The level of back and fourth that the 3pt shot breeds is at a level that hasn't been seen before in the league. The motions, cuts, counters are more unnatural and lend themselves to injury. Athletes aren't just running more-- they are putting an overwhelming amount of stress on the joints so that they can outrun the other teams and kill them in transition 3s. SVG brought up an interesting point about the record # of injuries happening today: most athletes just aren't conditioned and trained enough to adapt to it, but I found his argument to be a red herring, because the pace is unsustainable and athletes aren't machines. They are breaking down in their 20s as opposed to their 30s. These are overuse injuries.
Jokic's vertical certainly plays a role in preventing injury, but it's a little more nuanced and complicated than that. We all saw how the running back and fourth wore him out in prior years. One has to give him credit for staying in shape and slimming down. I want to see the same for Zion, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
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slavavov
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Denny_Russo wrote: |
Modern game is less about the vertical and more about the pace. The level of back and fourth that the 3pt shot breeds is at a level that hasn't been seen before in the league. The motions, cuts, counters are more unnatural and lend themselves to injury. Athletes aren't just running more-- they are putting an overwhelming amount of stress on the joints so that they can outrun the other teams and kill them in transition 3s. SVG brought up an interesting point about the record # of injuries happening today: most athletes just aren't conditioned and trained enough to adapt to it, but I found his argument to be a red herring, because the pace is unsustainable and athletes aren't machines. They are breaking down in their 20s as opposed to their 30s. These are overuse injuries.
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I've read a big reason these guys are breaking down sooner than players from the 80s and 90s is because they play so much AAU ball that it leads to tons of wear and tear by the time they're 25.
The pace was just as fast in the 80s, were guys getting hurt as much? The pace has been increasing over the last several years, so I wonder if maybe NBA players are still adjusting physically to this fast-break basketball.
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Denny_Russo
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| slavavov wrote: | | Denny_Russo wrote: |
Modern game is less about the vertical and more about the pace. The level of back and fourth that the 3pt shot breeds is at a level that hasn't been seen before in the league. The motions, cuts, counters are more unnatural and lend themselves to injury. Athletes aren't just running more-- they are putting an overwhelming amount of stress on the joints so that they can outrun the other teams and kill them in transition 3s. SVG brought up an interesting point about the record # of injuries happening today: most athletes just aren't conditioned and trained enough to adapt to it, but I found his argument to be a red herring, because the pace is unsustainable and athletes aren't machines. They are breaking down in their 20s as opposed to their 30s. These are overuse injuries.
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I've read a big reason these guys are breaking down sooner than players from the 80s and 90s is because they play so much AAU ball that it leads to tons of wear and tear by the time they're 25.
The pace was just as fast in the 80s, were guys getting hurt as much? The pace has been increasing over the last several years, so I wonder if maybe NBA players are still adjusting physically to this fast-break basketball. |
Yes... ESPN did an illuminating piece on it 4 years ago: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27125793/these-kids-ticking-bombs-threat-youth-basketball
Ironically, nothing has changed since then. One can argue it's even worse today, because social media is being used to put some players on the map. No mixtapes needed. Just hype men.
As far as the 80s, I'm not sure about the pace, but most athletes relaxed in the summer or picked up different sports. I remember reading about Ainge playing pro baseball before pro basketball and Duncan being a damn good swimmer, so they were working different muscle groups. They certainly did not play all year round the way most athletes are today.
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