*** Los Angeles Lakers vs Denver Nuggets (03/02/24 @ 5:30 pm PT | Gm#62 ***
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:12 pm    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Do me a favor and watch the last few minutes and how much space they gave Cam, Murray was basically free safety. Would they give the same spacing to DLO? We were making the defensive job easier for them with Cam playing.


Even if this were the case, we would have had to run our offense to literal perfect to beat them. They didnt miss.

Right, they never seem to miss against the lakers in crunch time, and we might very well still lose if DLO played, but we shouldn’t make their defensive job easier. Given the way their role players shot today, I am surprised the game was even close
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:14 pm    Post subject:

TDRock wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
TDRock wrote:
MPJ killed Big Game James entire soul. Y'all should hear Big Game in this post game wrap up he just sounds so disgusted every time MPJ gets a shot up lol

MPJ was the reason they beat us the last 2 games. Simple as that.


He's reminiscent of previous Klay in that when he lights up he lights all the way up and he is a sheer and utter flamethrower.


And he always seems to light up against us. Don't think that's a coincidence. Maybe we shouldn't always leave him open to start the games so he can get hot.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:15 pm    Post subject:

We are 18-8 in clutch games this year, best in the league, but I think 2-3 of the 8 losses were against Denver. We don’t have closers. It felt like Denver players were resting in clutch times, that’s how bad our offense was
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:16 pm    Post subject:

cirehawk wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
cirehawk wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
MJST wrote:
Treble Clef wrote:
Well I guess I got fooled because the Lakers were dominating most of the game and it turned out just like the last 7-8 games or whatever it is now.


you weren't fooled. Ham refused to play the dominating lineup in the 4th, opting to play Reddish over DLo for the majority of it despite Murray cooking Reddish every time down and Reddish not being an offensive threat AND not being 100%.

It's on coaching at this point. Ham is holding this team back ESPECIALLY in big games like this because he is the ONLY COACH IN THE LEAGUE that will play Reddish at 50% more minutes than a DLO that's having a good game in the 4th quarter when the stats show we've won 95% of our games when DLO plays more in the 4th including closing.

Ham throwing in DLO in at the last 90 seconds shows how dumb Ham is and how stupid his decision making and coaching has been.

It took till the FINAL 90 SECONDS of watching Murray go off for Ham to go "Oh Gee..maybe DLO should be in there..."


The REAL reason we lost is the Nuggets decided to score and take us seriously in the last few minutes of the game and whenever they do that, they dont seem to miss. D'Lo hardly changes that equation.


Since you keep going to this same old refrain that they score at will on us, what makes more sense? Playing defensive players that don't give us much offensively, even when the defensive guys aren't having an impact (since the Nuggets are scoring anyway)? Or putting in your scorers to at least give you a chance to outscore them? Oh wait, there is a 3rd option with you. We will just lose anyway, so why should the coach even try to make good decisions.


Pay attention to what I am saying: this is why I said D'Lo may get us 1 or 2 wins at the most against the Nuggets in the playoffs because I already realized that there is a scenario where D'Lo's hot shooting and offensive efficiency may be enough to get us a those 1 or 2 wins. Im already looking at the big picture. Those wins would be fluke wins because ultimately we are not winning the series.


Oh I'm paying attention. At this level (at any level really but especially at this level), confidence is a big thing. If we DO win a game or 2, you don't think that gives our team some confidence and puts some doubt in them? That could make a BIG difference. Right now, besides being better (or maybe it's WHY they are better) they have supreme confidence they will be us no matter what. And making dumb lineup decisions in crunch time does nothing to shake their confidence.


Supreme confidence is a thing but only when you have the fundamental superiority or at least its even. Take for example, the Game 1 wins vs Memphis and defending champs GSW. I thought those were HUGE wins that boosted confidence and led to ultimately winning those series. The problem is that fundamentally, we could outexecute those teams in crunch time through DEFENSE. With Denver, we can't, or if we are lucky, we can take 1 or 2 games if we just catch breaks and make shots like Phoenix did last year but they are too good to beat 4 times.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:16 pm    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Do me a favor and watch the last few minutes and how much space they gave Cam, Murray was basically free safety. Would they give the same spacing to DLO? We were making the defensive job easier for them with Cam playing.


Even if this were the case, we would have had to run our offense to literal perfect to beat them. They didnt miss.


They were scoring off missed shots by us. Scoring in semi-transition vs a set defense if we had made shots.

Cam in for Dlo allowed them to double our stars and it allowed Murray to sit and chill on defense which gave him the legs to score at will on the other hand.

Not sure why you’re trying to hard to stand by your point on this.

Anyone with a brain knows Cam instead of Dlo was an idiotic move.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:16 pm    Post subject:

Valdarno wrote:
miggz23 wrote:
How about this for a gameplan… Stop leaving shooters open.


exactly!

But this is the only gameplan that Ham knows.


Because 20 years ago when he tasted success as a player, it was a sound strategy.

Not in today’s league and definitely not against the Nuggets.

He has zero clue what he is doing out there.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:16 pm    Post subject:

Cam Reddish should not even be in the rotation, let alone getting crucial 4th quarter minutes. We didn't miss him at all when he was injured. You would get the same production from Max Christie.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:17 pm    Post subject:

Here is the problem:

Jokic is really hard to guard. This gets a lot of attention from the Lakers defense. This leads to them not paying attention to the people they are guarding, which leads to open shots and/or layups as players LOSE their man. We've seen this multiple times tonight, even in the clutch. A lack of discipline defensively leads to easy looks for Denver. When the lack of defense is effecting the team as a whole, who is to blame? Each player or the coaching staff?

The other problem we had with focusing on Jokic so much is that it meant we had to close on whomever he was passing to, which was often someone like MPJ. Closing is a bad defensive position and can have you beat by a simple shot fake. A lot of MPJ's shots were off of shot fakes after the catch. If we had guys staying at home better, we could contest such shots better, but that would require more gameplanning and discipline. Things that we haven't really shown this season.

When Jokic is making plays for himself and others, it is crucial that someone else doesn't make plays for themselves and others, seemingly at will. This is where Jamal Murray comes into play, and why we struggle so much to beat Denver. We don't have someone who is tall enough to bother his shot, but fleet of foot enough to stay in front of him. Cam had trouble staying with him, so that every team Murray stopped off of the dribble Cam was a step or two away, and Murray got an uncontested look.

Consistent offense seems to be our problem all season long, but it is made worse by jumbling up the rotations. We didn't play TP as much, which is good, but we took out our lead guard when we were struggling to get baskets. The key to beating a team as dominant defensively as the nuggets, is to have some consistent offense of our own. We saw that against the D'Antoni Suns, and we had KWAME brown doing it. We should be able to make better usage of our personnel but we just don't. And then we think mixing up rotations on the fly is the way to go.

Really frustrating to say the least, hence the rant.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:18 pm    Post subject:

Dominator wrote:
Cam Reddish should not even be in the rotation, let alone getting crucial 4th quarter minutes. We didn't miss him at all when he was injured. You would get the same production from Max Christie.


Not sure why we didn't try Max on Murray at all. Or even Dinwiddie. We kept throwing Cam on him even though Cam clearly couldn't stop him.

I blame the coach for such problems.
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:18 pm    Post subject:

The game plan should be “make Jokic score all their points”, not leaving their role players open for 3s, their role players have proven time after time that they just love to shoot against the lakers.
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:21 pm    Post subject:

Theseus wrote:
Dominator wrote:
Cam Reddish should not even be in the rotation, let alone getting crucial 4th quarter minutes. We didn't miss him at all when he was injured. You would get the same production from Max Christie.


Not sure why we didn't try Max on Murray at all. Or even Dinwiddie. We kept throwing Cam on him even though Cam clearly couldn't stop him.

I blame the coach for such problems.

They run JOKIC Murray PNR, it really doesn’t matter who was guarding them. If you send help, their role players make shots (Gordon, holiday), and if you don’t, you have to pray Murray misses(rarely against us). There is nothing we or anyone can do.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:21 pm    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
The game plan should be “make Jokic score all their points”, not leaving their role players open for 3s, their role players have proven time after time that they just love to shoot against the lakers.



This. Its not Rocket Surgery.

The entire team collapsing on Jokic in the paint is a losing strategy.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:22 pm    Post subject:

Lakesh0wtime wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Do me a favor and watch the last few minutes and how much space they gave Cam, Murray was basically free safety. Would they give the same spacing to DLO? We were making the defensive job easier for them with Cam playing.


Even if this were the case, we would have had to run our offense to literal perfect to beat them. They didnt miss.


They were scoring off missed shots by us. Scoring in semi-transition vs a set defense if we had made shots.

Cam in for Dlo allowed them to double our stars and it allowed Murray to sit and chill on defense which gave him the legs to score at will on the other hand.

Not sure why you’re trying to hard to stand by your point on this.

Anyone with a brain knows Cam instead of Dlo was an idiotic move.


I actually dont think its idiotic at all and I usually never agree with Darvin. In fact I dont even agree with Darvin here as I would have put in D'Lo as well just to see the influence that D'Lo could make in crunch time vs this team. But Ham is seeing what I am seeing. The Lakers, almost assuredly, even with D'Lo won't be able to offensively outexecute the Nuggets for 4 games to beat them in a series. Their only hope is to see if there is any lineup that could somewhat stifle their offensive efficiency. He is tinkering to find that defensive lineup against specifically this team. Unfortunately, this game showed that Cam is not it.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:22 pm    Post subject:

https://x.com/_jasonlt/status/1764142718572441891?s=46&t=VJNAyA603EB9oePT0uUvuw
Just watch Murray. People always question why we don’t go to AD or lebron in the post? Here you go.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:26 pm    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
cirehawk wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
cirehawk wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
MJST wrote:
Treble Clef wrote:
Well I guess I got fooled because the Lakers were dominating most of the game and it turned out just like the last 7-8 games or whatever it is now.


you weren't fooled. Ham refused to play the dominating lineup in the 4th, opting to play Reddish over DLo for the majority of it despite Murray cooking Reddish every time down and Reddish not being an offensive threat AND not being 100%.

It's on coaching at this point. Ham is holding this team back ESPECIALLY in big games like this because he is the ONLY COACH IN THE LEAGUE that will play Reddish at 50% more minutes than a DLO that's having a good game in the 4th quarter when the stats show we've won 95% of our games when DLO plays more in the 4th including closing.

Ham throwing in DLO in at the last 90 seconds shows how dumb Ham is and how stupid his decision making and coaching has been.

It took till the FINAL 90 SECONDS of watching Murray go off for Ham to go "Oh Gee..maybe DLO should be in there..."


The REAL reason we lost is the Nuggets decided to score and take us seriously in the last few minutes of the game and whenever they do that, they dont seem to miss. D'Lo hardly changes that equation.


Since you keep going to this same old refrain that they score at will on us, what makes more sense? Playing defensive players that don't give us much offensively, even when the defensive guys aren't having an impact (since the Nuggets are scoring anyway)? Or putting in your scorers to at least give you a chance to outscore them? Oh wait, there is a 3rd option with you. We will just lose anyway, so why should the coach even try to make good decisions.


Pay attention to what I am saying: this is why I said D'Lo may get us 1 or 2 wins at the most against the Nuggets in the playoffs because I already realized that there is a scenario where D'Lo's hot shooting and offensive efficiency may be enough to get us a those 1 or 2 wins. Im already looking at the big picture. Those wins would be fluke wins because ultimately we are not winning the series.


Oh I'm paying attention. At this level (at any level really but especially at this level), confidence is a big thing. If we DO win a game or 2, you don't think that gives our team some confidence and puts some doubt in them? That could make a BIG difference. Right now, besides being better (or maybe it's WHY they are better) they have supreme confidence they will be us no matter what. And making dumb lineup decisions in crunch time does nothing to shake their confidence.


Supreme confidence is a thing but only when you have the fundamental superiority or at least its even. Take for example, the Game 1 wins vs Memphis and defending champs GSW. I thought those were HUGE wins that boosted confidence and led to ultimately winning those series. The problem is that fundamentally, we could outexecute those teams in crunch time through DEFENSE. With Denver, we can't, or if we are lucky, we can take 1 or 2 games if we just catch breaks and make shots like Phoenix did last year but they are too good to beat 4 times.


Actually, Memphis was too young and GSW was too small to match up with us. I think most analysts were picking us in both those series. The Nuggets series is the first one where "execution" mattered, and they clearly out execute us. Which goes to coaching. I'll give you this though. Our roster construction IS a problem against the Nuggets. However, losing 8 straight games in the EXACT same fashion speaks more to execution. Which again speaks to coaching.
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Lakesh0wtime
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:26 pm    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
Lakesh0wtime wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Do me a favor and watch the last few minutes and how much space they gave Cam, Murray was basically free safety. Would they give the same spacing to DLO? We were making the defensive job easier for them with Cam playing.


Even if this were the case, we would have had to run our offense to literal perfect to beat them. They didnt miss.


They were scoring off missed shots by us. Scoring in semi-transition vs a set defense if we had made shots.

Cam in for Dlo allowed them to double our stars and it allowed Murray to sit and chill on defense which gave him the legs to score at will on the other hand.

Not sure why you’re trying to hard to stand by your point on this.

Anyone with a brain knows Cam instead of Dlo was an idiotic move.


I actually dont think it’s idiotic at all and I usually never agree with Darvin. In fact I dont even agree with Darvin here as I would have put in D'Lo as well just to see the influence that D'Lo could make in crunch time vs this team. But Ham is seeing what I am seeing. The Lakers, almost assuredly, even with D'Lo won't be able to offensively outexecute the Nuggets for 4 games to beat them in a series. Their only hope is to see if there is any lineup that could somewhat stifle their offensive efficiency. He is tinkering to find that defensive lineup against specifically this team. Unfortunately, this game showed that Cam is not it.


They needed to win this game. Gtfo with tinkering.
Dlo was contributing to us winning this game until he was sat.

Stop flip flopping. You agree but don’t agree blah blah blah.

We needed to win THIS GAME. And THIS GAME Dlo was playing well and Cam was ineffective. That was already apparent in the first half.

Stop trying to bring some bs about a series. We’re the 10th seed we need to do what we need to do to win the game in front of us.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:26 pm    Post subject:

Theseus wrote:
Here is the problem:

Jokic is really hard to guard. This gets a lot of attention from the Lakers defense. This leads to them not paying attention to the people they are guarding, which leads to open shots and/or layups as players LOSE their man. We've seen this multiple times tonight, even in the clutch. A lack of discipline defensively leads to easy looks for Denver. When the lack of defense is effecting the team as a whole, who is to blame? Each player or the coaching staff?

The other problem we had with focusing on Jokic so much is that it meant we had to close on whomever he was passing to, which was often someone like MPJ. Closing is a bad defensive position and can have you beat by a simple shot fake. A lot of MPJ's shots were off of shot fakes after the catch. If we had guys staying at home better, we could contest such shots better, but that would require more gameplanning and discipline. Things that we haven't really shown this season.

When Jokic is making plays for himself and others, it is crucial that someone else doesn't make plays for themselves and others, seemingly at will. This is where Jamal Murray comes into play, and why we struggle so much to beat Denver. We don't have someone who is tall enough to bother his shot, but fleet of foot enough to stay in front of him. Cam had trouble staying with him, so that every team Murray stopped off of the dribble Cam was a step or two away, and Murray got an uncontested look.

Consistent offense seems to be our problem all season long, but it is made worse by jumbling up the rotations. We didn't play TP as much, which is good, but we took out our lead guard when we were struggling to get baskets. The key to beating a team as dominant defensively as the nuggets, is to have some consistent offense of our own. We saw that against the D'Antoni Suns, and we had KWAME brown doing it. We should be able to make better usage of our personnel but we just don't. And then we think mixing up rotations on the fly is the way to go.

Really frustrating to say the least, hence the rant.


I agree with most of this but beating the D'Antoni Suns was done by slowing the pace and destroying them inside (Kwame and Odom) and trying to keep the scores low. I dont think we should try that with the Nuggets who already execute at a very slow pace - we would be hurting ourselves more.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:26 pm    Post subject:

Outrebounded by 16 with Lebron and Rui combining for 7. Can’t win that way.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:27 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Outrebounded by 16 with Lebron and Rui combining for 7. Can’t win that way.

Too many switches and miss shots. We were always out of position on defense rebounds
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:28 pm    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
Lakesh0wtime wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Do me a favor and watch the last few minutes and how much space they gave Cam, Murray was basically free safety. Would they give the same spacing to DLO? We were making the defensive job easier for them with Cam playing.


Even if this were the case, we would have had to run our offense to literal perfect to beat them. They didnt miss.


They were scoring off missed shots by us. Scoring in semi-transition vs a set defense if we had made shots.

Cam in for Dlo allowed them to double our stars and it allowed Murray to sit and chill on defense which gave him the legs to score at will on the other hand.

Not sure why you’re trying to hard to stand by your point on this.

Anyone with a brain knows Cam instead of Dlo was an idiotic move.


I actually dont think its idiotic at all and I usually never agree with Darvin. In fact I dont even agree with Darvin here as I would have put in D'Lo as well just to see the influence that D'Lo could make in crunch time vs this team. But Ham is seeing what I am seeing. The Lakers, almost assuredly, even with D'Lo won't be able to offensively outexecute the Nuggets for 4 games to beat them in a series. Their only hope is to see if there is any lineup that could somewhat stifle their offensive efficiency. He is tinkering to find that defensive lineup against specifically this team. Unfortunately, this game showed that Cam is not it.


Wha WHAT?! you are right now fighting for your lives to stay IN THE PLAY-IN! ALL wins are a MUST! MARCH SCHEDULE IS CRAZY! He tinkering with the lineup>...THIS LATE? If we were 3rd in standings then fine..but we are almost out of it all. How will that tinkering be if we dont even make the play-in? Will it be worth it then?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:30 pm    Post subject:

https://x.com/_jasonlt/status/1764145088291311822?s=46&t=VJNAyA603EB9oePT0uUvuw
How did MPJ make this play? By leaving our role players wide open.
When we leave their role players open, they make shots, and when they leave ours open, we miss. Can’t get more frustrating than that.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:30 pm    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
Lakesh0wtime wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Do me a favor and watch the last few minutes and how much space they gave Cam, Murray was basically free safety. Would they give the same spacing to DLO? We were making the defensive job easier for them with Cam playing.


Even if this were the case, we would have had to run our offense to literal perfect to beat them. They didnt miss.


They were scoring off missed shots by us. Scoring in semi-transition vs a set defense if we had made shots.

Cam in for Dlo allowed them to double our stars and it allowed Murray to sit and chill on defense which gave him the legs to score at will on the other hand.

Not sure why you’re trying to hard to stand by your point on this.

Anyone with a brain knows Cam instead of Dlo was an idiotic move.


I actually dont think its idiotic at all and I usually never agree with Darvin. In fact I dont even agree with Darvin here as I would have put in D'Lo as well just to see the influence that D'Lo could make in crunch time vs this team. But Ham is seeing what I am seeing. The Lakers, almost assuredly, even with D'Lo won't be able to offensively outexecute the Nuggets for 4 games to beat them in a series. Their only hope is to see if there is any lineup that could somewhat stifle their offensive efficiency. He is tinkering to find that defensive lineup against specifically this team. Unfortunately, this game showed that Cam is not it.


Darvin spent a lot of time at the start of the season "tinkering" and look what it got us. Another bad start to the season. And now he is "tinkering" again? At this point, play your best player in crunch time and let the chips fall where they may. Tinkering time is over.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:31 pm    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Outrebounded by 16 with Lebron and Rui combining for 7. Can’t win that way.

Too many switches and miss shots. We were always out of position on defense rebounds


For sure, teams are smart and get AD to switch out of the paint.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:31 pm    Post subject:

cirehawk wrote:
TDRock wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
TDRock wrote:
MPJ killed Big Game James entire soul. Y'all should hear Big Game in this post game wrap up he just sounds so disgusted every time MPJ gets a shot up lol

MPJ was the reason they beat us the last 2 games. Simple as that.


He's reminiscent of previous Klay in that when he lights up he lights all the way up and he is a sheer and utter flamethrower.


And he always seems to light up against us. Don't think that's a coincidence. Maybe we shouldn't always leave him open to start the games so he can get hot.


That part
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:33 pm    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
Theseus wrote:
Here is the problem:

Jokic is really hard to guard. This gets a lot of attention from the Lakers defense. This leads to them not paying attention to the people they are guarding, which leads to open shots and/or layups as players LOSE their man. We've seen this multiple times tonight, even in the clutch. A lack of discipline defensively leads to easy looks for Denver. When the lack of defense is effecting the team as a whole, who is to blame? Each player or the coaching staff?

The other problem we had with focusing on Jokic so much is that it meant we had to close on whomever he was passing to, which was often someone like MPJ. Closing is a bad defensive position and can have you beat by a simple shot fake. A lot of MPJ's shots were off of shot fakes after the catch. If we had guys staying at home better, we could contest such shots better, but that would require more gameplanning and discipline. Things that we haven't really shown this season.

When Jokic is making plays for himself and others, it is crucial that someone else doesn't make plays for themselves and others, seemingly at will. This is where Jamal Murray comes into play, and why we struggle so much to beat Denver. We don't have someone who is tall enough to bother his shot, but fleet of foot enough to stay in front of him. Cam had trouble staying with him, so that every team Murray stopped off of the dribble Cam was a step or two away, and Murray got an uncontested look.

Consistent offense seems to be our problem all season long, but it is made worse by jumbling up the rotations. We didn't play TP as much, which is good, but we took out our lead guard when we were struggling to get baskets. The key to beating a team as dominant defensively as the nuggets, is to have some consistent offense of our own. We saw that against the D'Antoni Suns, and we had KWAME brown doing it. We should be able to make better usage of our personnel but we just don't. And then we think mixing up rotations on the fly is the way to go.

Really frustrating to say the least, hence the rant.


I agree with most of this but beating the D'Antoni Suns was done by slowing the pace and destroying them inside (Kwame and Odom) and trying to keep the scores low. I dont think we should try that with the Nuggets who already execute at a very slow pace - we would be hurting ourselves more.


I just mean consistent offense, because having them take the ball out of the basket every trip down is more than what our defense can do against them. Right now it seems like we're mustering the pray they don't make defense after helping off their shooters. Which works better off of makes rather than misses.
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