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TooMuchMajicBuss
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Sep 2008
Posts: 21104
Location: In a white room, with black curtains near the station
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 Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2024 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | If you're trying to win bragging rights for underpaid players, Reaves is a gem. But if you're trying to win a championship you package him in a trade for the best return you can get. Not really a knock on him as he's good for what he is, he's just not more than that. |
The $13M figure is significant because of the salary cap and the need to put a full squad out there, not just 3 good players. We need solid defense, and players who can score, execute their parts on offense and defense, and who don't give us glaring weaknesses, while we pay our superstars a big chunk of our salary cap.
i'm not against packaging anyone on this team other than AD for the right return, but the title of this thread is:
"No more excuses for Reaves"
I think that's way off base. |
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RI Laker
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 7207
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| Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2024 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| We are a better team with AR than without him. END OF F'ING STORY. I could care about the back of the uniform. Its all about the front. |
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sonic the laker
Star Player
Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Posts: 2103
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| Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2024 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| TooMuchMajicBuss wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | If you're trying to win bragging rights for underpaid players, Reaves is a gem. But if you're trying to win a championship you package him in a trade for the best return you can get. Not really a knock on him as he's good for what he is, he's just not more than that. |
The $13M figure is significant because of the salary cap and the need to put a full squad out there, not just 3 good players. We need solid defense, and players who can score, execute their parts on offense and defense, and who don't give us glaring weaknesses, while we pay our superstars a big chunk of our salary cap.
i'm not against packaging anyone on this team other than AD for the right return, but the title of this thread is:
"No more excuses for Reaves"
I think that's way off base. |
I think the sense that you, and others here speak, oft falls upon deaf and dumb ears...
It's much easier to just throw out specious generalities, than to form cogent analysis.
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mhan00
Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32076
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| Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2024 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| ducasse wrote: | | Murray has shot under 40% in every game of this series. Who gets the credit for that? |
Seriously. Plus, just watching AR give his all chasing Murray off of screens and staying down on head fakes and jumping to really try to contest on every single one of Murray’s jumpers while also moving his feet to do his best to stay in front while Murray makes multiple moves and gets multiple screens shows you how hard he’s working. It’s not exactly a mystery why he doesn’t always have legs on offense. |
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MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26832
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| Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2024 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| mhan00 wrote: | | ducasse wrote: | | Murray has shot under 40% in every game of this series. Who gets the credit for that? |
Seriously. Plus, just watching AR give his all chasing Murray off of screens and staying down on head fakes and jumping to really try to contest on every single one of Murray’s jumpers while also moving his feet to do his best to stay in front while Murray makes multiple moves and gets multiple screens shows you how hard he’s working. It’s not exactly a mystery why he doesn’t always have legs on offense. |
You know eras are different when people use playing defense as a reason someone doesn't have legs on offense. When there were players throughout basketball history that were expected to score AND be good to great defenders.
The game changed when "Well you can't expect him to give so much energy on defense when he's scoring." became an excuse for 'superstars'.
I watched Kobe go for 81 and not be tired, I see players nowadays go for 60+ and nearly be falling apart on the court.
It's a different time.
Now onto the subject of Reaves. He's stepped it up on the offensive end the last two games and not lost his aggression on the other end, and we definitely have needed it. Great to see!
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sonic the laker
Star Player
Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Posts: 2103
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| Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2024 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | ducasse wrote: | | Murray has shot under 40% in every game of this series. Who gets the credit for that? |
Seriously. Plus, just watching AR give his all chasing Murray off of screens and staying down on head fakes and jumping to really try to contest on every single one of Murray’s jumpers while also moving his feet to do his best to stay in front while Murray makes multiple moves and gets multiple screens shows you how hard he’s working. It’s not exactly a mystery why he doesn’t always have legs on offense. |
You know eras are different when people use playing defense as a reason someone doesn't have legs on offense. When there were players throughout basketball history that were expected to score AND be good to great defenders.
The game changed when "Well you can't expect him to give so much energy on defense when he's scoring." became an excuse for 'superstars'.
I watched Kobe go for 81 and not be tired, I see players nowadays go for 60+ and nearly be falling apart on the court.
It's a different time.
Now onto the subject of Reaves. He's stepped it up on the offensive end the last two games and not lost his aggression on the other end, and we definitely have needed it. Great to see! |
I hear what you're saying. But, I believe why you here this explanation applied to Reaves a lot, is because he doesn't have the natural physical tools to be a good defender. He has the IQ, but not the requisite athleticism/speed/quickness to bridge the gap, if that makes sense.
Most of your top notch perimeter defenders had/have that combination of physical/mental tools. Reaves has to put extra effort on the physical end, jsut to keep up, as best he can. And, that's still taking into account how he didn't have the off season rest, like the rest of his team did.
That's why I'm hoping he takes this upcoming offseason (after a long playoff run, hopefully, lol) to get the necessary rest. As well as work on improving his overall game, and body. I still see room for improvement in Reaves game, if he pursues it.
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J.C. Smith
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12699
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| Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2024 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| sonic the laker wrote: | | He has the IQ, but not the requisite athleticism/speed/quickness to bridge the gap, if that makes sense. |
I think that sums it up well. It isn't a lack of effort from Reaves. He plays hard. He's the type of guy you want on your team. But a player with more athleticism, or better length can make a mistake, and then recover. They can buy into a feint, or get caught cheating, and still recover to make a good challenge.
Reaves doesn't have any of that at his disposal. His biggest advantage defensively is that he is good at clogging driving lines, which is primarily due to anticipation.
I feel like Reaves is a guy who will maximize his potential when it's all said and done. But his ceiling isn't a whole lot higher than it is right now. The exception would be if he could find a way to match his hot shooting to close last season. Great shooters are hard to come by, but he's been a very streaky shooter. This may be what he is. He's a solid player, on a decent contract, and can play an important role.
I think what hurts him more than anything is that he and DLO are both kind of in that same category. They are both unathletic guards. Neither is a great defender. The combination of those two allows other teams to attack our backcourt. I think DLO showed some progress defensively this season though, and Reaves while being headhunted for much of the season, has been putting in more effort there down the stretch. I think if you pair either of those guys with an athletic defensive minded guard, it would help cover up their own deficiencies. As is, they are giving Reaves the tougher of the two assignments on most nights, where they would be able to hide him more easily otherwise. And the same goes for DLO.
From that perspective I get what Ham was trying to do with Cam earlier in the year. It wasn't really working because the talent gap offensively was larger than what Cam gave the team defensively. Long term though I think one of those guys (DLO or Reaves) likely has to go, or one of them has to be changed into a bench scorer. Unfortunately, I don't think Cam is good enough to be a starter, and Vanderbilt hasn't been able to stay healthy. |
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ThePageDude
Star Player
Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 2625
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2024 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: |
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<snip>
Ask yourselves this, if AR was hurt (not asking for this at all) and he was out for 2 months, would the Lakers really miss him? Therein lies the point of this thread... |
AR does very little to help us win games? Are you people drunk when you say this kind of stuff? He consistently helps the Lakers pull out games. Of course they would miss him if he was hurt. There are people that said vando was worthless. Clearly the Lakers have missed him all season. Apparently some people think only stat padders win games. |
Yeah, I'm flummoxed by that contention as well. You (OP) are saying that one of Dinwiddie/Vincent/Mays/JHS could replace AR's contributions if he was hurt for 2 months? NO way no how. The Lakers would have lost many more games, and certainly this last Denver game. |
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samnizam
Star Player
Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Posts: 1404
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2024 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | | sonic the laker wrote: | | He has the IQ, but not the requisite athleticism/speed/quickness to bridge the gap, if that makes sense. |
I think that sums it up well. It isn't a lack of effort from Reaves. He plays hard. He's the type of guy you want on your team. But a player with more athleticism, or better length can make a mistake, and then recover. They can buy into a feint, or get caught cheating, and still recover to make a good challenge.
Reaves doesn't have any of that at his disposal. His biggest advantage defensively is that he is good at clogging driving lines, which is primarily due to anticipation.
I feel like Reaves is a guy who will maximize his potential when it's all said and done. But his ceiling isn't a whole lot higher than it is right now. The exception would be if he could find a way to match his hot shooting to close last season. Great shooters are hard to come by, but he's been a very streaky shooter. This may be what he is. He's a solid player, on a decent contract, and can play an important role.
I think what hurts him more than anything is that he and DLO are both kind of in that same category. They are both unathletic guards. Neither is a great defender. The combination of those two allows other teams to attack our backcourt. I think DLO showed some progress defensively this season though, and Reaves while being headhunted for much of the season, has been putting in more effort there down the stretch. I think if you pair either of those guys with an athletic defensive minded guard, it would help cover up their own deficiencies. As is, they are giving Reaves the tougher of the two assignments on most nights, where they would be able to hide him more easily otherwise. And the same goes for DLO.
From that perspective I get what Ham was trying to do with Cam earlier in the year. It wasn't really working because the talent gap offensively was larger than what Cam gave the team defensively. Long term though I think one of those guys (DLO or Reaves) likely has to go, or one of them has to be changed into a bench scorer. Unfortunately, I don't think Cam is good enough to be a starter, and Vanderbilt hasn't been able to stay healthy. |
lol you talent experts he reached his potential your are clueless. The guy improved every year. He played all the game if you are going to (bleep) attack dinwedont. Or Cam or even DLO he has been more effective than any of them besides LeBron and AD . |
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17988
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2024 8:02 am Post subject: |
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The biggest "negative" thing I can say about AR is his value seemed really high and it's probably gotten lower after this season (even though I think he's had a good season and still way outplayed his contract). What would a package centered around AR/Rui or another contract/2029 have fetched? Not sure, but probably someone really damn good. The Lakers understandably wanted to keep AR over DLO but that was the exact reason they major play to upgrade the roster would've been trading AR.
But whether that mystery box would've panned out into a real difference maker is a separate question. I personally kind of like running with a core with "our guys" so I'm glad we still have AR but the overlap between AR/DLO is felt. I like the roster but you'd need a Top 5 coach to make the most of our roster, which we obviously lack. |
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RusselDoeee01
Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2014
Posts: 1128
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2024 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| The sad thing is Reaves would probably be the 3rd best player on the nuggets roster.. but we are so deep he is getting overshadowed. |
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