Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8442 Location: Santa Monica
Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 8:45 pm Post subject:
A true basketball fan and purist will truly appreciate the Nuggets.
They're not flashy, they're not a great defensive team, but they play great defense and turn it into fast breaks in those big spurts that win them games. They also play team basketball and execute as well as anyone.
They're greater than the sum of their parts, and they're together, locked in and motivated. They have all the intangibles needed to win a world championship, and they will repeat as world champs this year. _________________ Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers
TD was so underrated. I hated his guts, but I respect the hell out of him now. You don't win 5 rings by accident. _________________ Yi Jianlian Fanboy. Respect The Chair.
Starting anew. I'm retiring my main.
They are worst than last year. Unfortunately so are we. They shot 40% from the 3 last year to sweep us and they are shooting probably under 30% now.
Outside out Gordon, not any one is having a particularly great series by their standards. However, outside of lebron and AD and DLo game 2, none of our team came to play
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22882 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:14 pm Post subject:
But Duncan was a monster defensively as well. They're not the same position, but to me, a better comparison is actually Magic Johnson. He wasn't a great defender, but his command on the offensive end was so dominating, it made up for it. I'm not talking Kobe or MJ scoring domination. Jokic and Magic simply dominates at MAKING THE RIGHT PLAYS. That leads to controlling the flow of the game, the boards, the triple doubles, and intangible stuff like the camaraderie that comes with playing with a charismatic leader.
Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:20 pm Post subject: Re: NIKOLA JOKIC NUGGETS ARE LIKE THE TIM DUNCAN SPURS
JUST-MING wrote:
Well-coached and disciplined.
And it took the core about 5-6 seasons of playing together to get there. Without injury it'd probably have been 3-4. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
This is wrong and not true. The Nuggets are much better than the Duncan Spurs and you want to know where they are for sure better than Duncan's Spurs....especially against Shaq/Kobe Lakers? Late game and fourth quarter execution. Look at how often the Spurs had the lead on the Lakers during the 2002 playoffs. Also even in that series that the Spurs won in 2003, they had a huge lead in Game 5 and nearly blew it all in the final quarter. You could always count on the Spurs to get the lead on the Lakers because they came in much more focused and you could count on the Lakers to walk them down.
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22882 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 11:01 pm Post subject:
1995Lakers wrote:
This is wrong and not true. The Nuggets are much better than the Duncan Spurs and you want to know where they are for sure better than Duncan's Spurs....especially against Shaq/Kobe Lakers? Late game and fourth quarter execution. Look at how often the Spurs had the lead on the Lakers during the 2002 playoffs. Also even in that series that the Spurs won in 2003, they had a huge lead in Game 5 and nearly blew it all in the final quarter. You could always count on the Spurs to get the lead on the Lakers because they came in much more focused and you could count on the Lakers to walk them down.
And since we traded blows with the Spurs... you're basically saying these Nuggets are better than the Kobe/Shaq Lakers too, or right there with them? I don't think so. I'll take Timmy, Manu and Parker over these Nuggets, and I will for sure take Shaq/Kobe over them. Timmy got 5 chips... I mean lets pump the brakes and see what happens this playoffs. I mean we SUCK. This is not the barometer to judge the Nuggets on. They will get tested by the Wolves.
This is wrong and not true. The Nuggets are much better than the Duncan Spurs and you want to know where they are for sure better than Duncan's Spurs....especially against Shaq/Kobe Lakers? Late game and fourth quarter execution. Look at how often the Spurs had the lead on the Lakers during the 2002 playoffs. Also even in that series that the Spurs won in 2003, they had a huge lead in Game 5 and nearly blew it all in the final quarter. You could always count on the Spurs to get the lead on the Lakers because they came in much more focused and you could count on the Lakers to walk them down.
And since we traded blows with the Spurs... you're basically saying these Nuggets are better than the Kobe/Shaq Lakers too, or right there with them? I don't think so. I'll take Timmy, Manu and Parker over these Nuggets, and I will for sure take Shaq/Kobe over them. Timmy got 5 chips... I mean lets pump the brakes and see what happens this playoffs. I mean we SUCK. This is not the barometer to judge the Nuggets on. They will get tested by the Wolves.
These Nuggets execute at a level Ive only seen the 2001 Lakers able to match of all the Shaq/Kobe teams - meaning only the peak version of Shaq/Kobe could beat these Nuggets. The 2000 Lakers that were this close to being eliminated by the Blazers. Those 2000 Blazers arent even close to the current Nuggets. The 2002 Lakers that were this close to being eliminated by the Kings???? Yea those Kings are a early prototype of these Nuggets and would get blown away by the current Denver. Jokic is everything Webber wishes he could have been. Wolves testing Denver.....maybe....if you call 6 games at the most being tested even though the result of the series is never in doubt - aka if the Nuggets ever decide to take an opponent seriously, it wont even be competitive, it will be a sweep for Minnesota and possibly even Boston. As for Timmy himself, he has got nothing for Jokic. Jokic would score on him at will - just like Shaq did. And I can pretty much guarantee Jokic would have a much easier time scoring on Timmy than vice versa. David Robinson is a better post defender than Timmy so he might hold up a little better but even Admiral Dave (out of his prime) ultimately would be futile for Jokic
This is wrong and not true. The Nuggets are much better than the Duncan Spurs and you want to know where they are for sure better than Duncan's Spurs....especially against Shaq/Kobe Lakers? Late game and fourth quarter execution. Look at how often the Spurs had the lead on the Lakers during the 2002 playoffs. Also even in that series that the Spurs won in 2003, they had a huge lead in Game 5 and nearly blew it all in the final quarter. You could always count on the Spurs to get the lead on the Lakers because they came in much more focused and you could count on the Lakers to walk them down.
And since we traded blows with the Spurs... you're basically saying these Nuggets are better than the Kobe/Shaq Lakers too, or right there with them? I don't think so. I'll take Timmy, Manu and Parker over these Nuggets, and I will for sure take Shaq/Kobe over them. Timmy got 5 chips... I mean lets pump the brakes and see what happens this playoffs. I mean we SUCK. This is not the barometer to judge the Nuggets on. They will get tested by the Wolves.
These Nuggets execute at a level Ive only seen the 2001 Lakers able to match of all the Shaq/Kobe teams - meaning only the peak version of Shaq/Kobe could beat these Nuggets. The 2000 Lakers that were this close to being eliminated by the Blazers. Those 2000 Blazers arent even close to the current Nuggets. The 2002 Lakers that were this close to being eliminated by the Kings???? Yea those Kings are a early prototype of these Nuggets and would get blown away by the current Denver. Jokic is everything Webber wishes he could have been. Wolves testing Denver.....maybe....if you call 6 games at the most being tested even though the result of the series is never in doubt - aka if the Nuggets ever decide to take an opponent seriously, it wont even be competitive, it will be a sweep for Minnesota and possibly even Boston. As for Timmy himself, he has got nothing for Jokic. Jokic would score on him at will - just like Shaq did. And I can pretty much guarantee Jokic would have a much easier time scoring on Timmy than vice versa. David Robinson is a better post defender than Timmy so he might hold up a little better but even Admiral Dave (out of his prime) ultimately would be futile for Jokic
Jokic having to deal with that Shaq for 4 quarters would probably wear him down. There isn't anything close to that equivalent in the league now. Maybe if Zion was 7 foot or Embiid had heart. Even then Jokic struggled with Embiid this season if I remember correctly. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
I will also say this: Even the peak 2001 Lakers lost a game to AI and four defenders. If the current Bron/AD Lakers, not even the Nuggets, played those 2001 Sixers, I dont see those Sixers even getting a game and it would likely be 4 blowout wins for the current Lakers similar to how it would be if the current Lakers took the Pelicans seriously for 4 games. For the modern game, it would be so easy to gameplan against a team that literally has 1 offensive weapon with 3 starters that literally can't shoot past 15-20 feet (Tyrone Hill, Dikembe Mutombo and George Lynch) and two inefficient, not even good 3 point shooters in Eric Snow and Allen Iverson while we run the 5 out and can constantly target AI on defense with Bron and rain threes on their asses. Its literally the same gameplan that we used against Tyrese Haliburton in the IST and James Harden back in 2020. Get the ball out of AIs hands and see if these offensive Zeros can beat you. It would be a complete mismatch and utter destruction.
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 36091 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2024 1:21 am Post subject:
At what point does Jokic surpass Duncan as a player? I don’t recall Duncan ever being able to dominate on offense like this. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
At what point does Jokic surpass Duncan as a player? I don’t recall Duncan ever being able to dominate on offense like this.
People forget how good Duncan was. Jokic needs three finals MVPs to be in that conversation. Duncan had three finals MVPs and he was a two way player. Jokic is not a good defender and defense is 50% of the game. I agree Jokic is clearly better than Duncan was on the offensive side because of his passing and 3pt shooting. A step above Duncan. But Duncan was dominant defensively and two steps ahead of Jokic defensively. Duncan was top five in MVP voting as well as All-NBA first team his first eight seasons. It took Jokic until his 4th season to get to that level.
Last edited by ducasse on Sat Apr 27, 2024 2:25 am; edited 6 times in total
At what point does Jokic surpass Duncan as a player? I don’t recall Duncan ever being able to dominate on offense like this.
He already has surpassed Duncan. Its like when Jordan beat Magic in 1991. People argued for a while who was truly better between the 5-time champ Magic and the many time scoring champion and defensive player of the year but 0 time champion Jordan. People knew deep down that Jordan was better and that chip pretty much sealed that debate even though MJ only had won 1 at that point. If you look at just the player and his talent and not the accumulated accolades (because Jokic is not done yet), Jokic to me is the second greatest center of all time after Shaq.
Only Shaq I see could have given Jokic a harder time than he could have given Shaq. I rate Jokic over Olajuwon slightly although this one is very close because Dream was extremely clutch and mentally strong and his offense was the second-best part of his game, meaning his defense was truly extraordinary and in the modern NBA, it would stand out even more so. For those that watched Hakeem and Duncan, even if Duncan won 5 and Olajuwon 2, you cant seriously tell me Duncan was better than Olajuwon. Thats just not true. Even Horry who has watched both play at or near their peaks rate Olajuwon clearly ahead of Duncan and Duncan as a clear third between Dream, Shaq and Tim - which for those of us that watched the NBA closely during that time, you know exactly where Robert is getting his views from. Duncan was clearly third in that group. Olajuwon vs Shaq is a lot closer.
I rate Duncan truly as behind Kobe slightly in terms of as a player and its more apparent when these two matched up. It also helps that Kobe was the ultimate Spurs/Popovich killer. But these two are behind Shaq to me and behind Jokic. For example, you ask the GMs today, if you could have Jokic, Kobe, Duncan or Shaq at their peaks to play for you, the ONLY debate will be between Shaq and Jokic with maybe a few Kobes but I guarantee NO ONE is choosing Duncan from this list.
A true basketball fan and purist will truly appreciate the Nuggets.
They're not flashy, they're not a great defensive team, but they play great defense and turn it into fast breaks in those big spurts that win them games. They also play team basketball and execute as well as anyone.
They're greater than the sum of their parts, and they're together, locked in and motivated. They have all the intangibles needed to win a world championship, and they will repeat as world champs this year.
Actually one thing I like about the Nuggets is that they don't play that BS modern basketball of shooting a ton of 3s that has ruined the game for old school basketball fans.
It is team basketball and reflects more of old school basketball.
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 36091 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2024 2:35 am Post subject:
1995Lakers wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
At what point does Jokic surpass Duncan as a player? I don’t recall Duncan ever being able to dominate on offense like this.
He already has surpassed Duncan. Its like when Jordan beat Magic in 1991. People argued for a while who was truly better between the 5-time champ Magic and the many time scoring champion and defensive player of the year but 0 time champion Jordan. People knew deep down that Jordan was better and that chip pretty much sealed that debate even though MJ only had won 1 at that point. If you look at just the player and his talent and not the accumulated accolades (because Jokic is not done yet), Jokic to me is the second greatest center of all time after Shaq.
Only Shaq I see could have given Jokic a harder time than he could have given Shaq. I rate Jokic over Olajuwon slightly although this one is very close because Dream was extremely clutch and mentally strong and his offense was the second-best part of his game, meaning his defense was truly extraordinary and in the modern NBA, it would stand out even more so. For those that watched Hakeem and Duncan, even if Duncan won 5 and Olajuwon 2, you cant seriously tell me Duncan was better than Olajuwon. Thats just not true. Even Horry who has watched both play at or near their peaks rate Olajuwon clearly ahead of Duncan and Duncan as a clear third between Dream, Shaq and Tim - which for those of us that watched the NBA closely during that time, you know exactly where Robert is getting his views from. Duncan was clearly third in that group. Olajuwon vs Shaq is a lot closer.
I rate Duncan truly as behind Kobe slightly in terms of as a player and its more apparent when these two matched up. It also helps that Kobe was the ultimate Spurs/Popovich killer. But these two are behind Shaq to me and behind Jokic. For example, you ask the GMs today, if you could have Jokic, Kobe, Duncan or Shaq at their peaks to play for you, the ONLY debate will be between Shaq and Jokic with maybe a few Kobes but I guarantee NO ONE is choosing Duncan from this list.
Why are Shaq and Jokic above Kareem, Wilt, and Olajuwon? _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
At what point does Jokic surpass Duncan as a player? I don’t recall Duncan ever being able to dominate on offense like this.
He already has surpassed Duncan. Its like when Jordan beat Magic in 1991. People argued for a while who was truly better between the 5-time champ Magic and the many time scoring champion and defensive player of the year but 0 time champion Jordan. People knew deep down that Jordan was better and that chip pretty much sealed that debate even though MJ only had won 1 at that point. If you look at just the player and his talent and not the accumulated accolades (because Jokic is not done yet), Jokic to me is the second greatest center of all time after Shaq.
Only Shaq I see could have given Jokic a harder time than he could have given Shaq. I rate Jokic over Olajuwon slightly although this one is very close because Dream was extremely clutch and mentally strong and his offense was the second-best part of his game, meaning his defense was truly extraordinary and in the modern NBA, it would stand out even more so. For those that watched Hakeem and Duncan, even if Duncan won 5 and Olajuwon 2, you cant seriously tell me Duncan was better than Olajuwon. Thats just not true. Even Horry who has watched both play at or near their peaks rate Olajuwon clearly ahead of Duncan and Duncan as a clear third between Dream, Shaq and Tim - which for those of us that watched the NBA closely during that time, you know exactly where Robert is getting his views from. Duncan was clearly third in that group. Olajuwon vs Shaq is a lot closer.
I rate Duncan truly as behind Kobe slightly in terms of as a player and its more apparent when these two matched up. It also helps that Kobe was the ultimate Spurs/Popovich killer. But these two are behind Shaq to me and behind Jokic. For example, you ask the GMs today, if you could have Jokic, Kobe, Duncan or Shaq at their peaks to play for you, the ONLY debate will be between Shaq and Jokic with maybe a few Kobes but I guarantee NO ONE is choosing Duncan from this list.
Why are Shaq and Jokic above Kareem, Wilt, and Olajuwon?
Kareem frankly had two big weaknesses that are actually very relevant in a match against Shaq and Jokic. 1. Editing this: Kareem was a good rebounder in Milwaukee but by the time he was in LA, he always needed a great rebounding power forward to supplement him aka. Kermit Washington, Kurt Rambis and AC Green. As we know, Shaq and Jokic were always excellent rebounders who can kill you on the glass and if you cant hold your own rebounding, that could turn a game especially against Jokic's Denver. 2. Kareem struggled against Bulky centers that were near his level - case in point: Moses Malone who seemed to always outplay Kareem head to head. The blueprint against Kareem was ALWAYS be physical with him.
Wilt is harder to say. The only thing I had against Wilt was he WILLINGLY took less efficient shots (the turnaround jumper and finger roll off his right hand spinning to his right from the right block) to prove he wasnt a brute. Of course the rules were much more heavily enforced here to where Shaq would foul out every game if he played the way he did in Wilts era. Hence you can say Wilt played literally a different game and so its hard to judge him.
As for Olajuwon vs Jokic/Shaq, I think it comes to who would find it easier to score on whom. Olajuwon stood out for his defense because of his anticipation and mobility. But he wouldnt be able to do a whole lot when Shaq and Jokic make up in their minds to score. Yes Olajuwon got 1995 Shaq. The story would be very different if he were going against 00-02 Shaq - as Laker fans I dont need to explain to you guys why. Whereas Hakeem's shots by nature were just lower percentage compared to Jokic/Shaq.
As good as Duncan was, I never felt hopeless against him or that he was unsolvable. I would much rather face Duncan than Jokic. _________________ 14-5-3-12
As good as Duncan was, I never felt hopeless against him or that he was unsolvable. I would much rather face Duncan than Jokic.
It's so, so difficult comparing across eras. I'll just say one obvios thing, Jokic is a never-seen-before archetype, absolutely unique.
Worthy has a great point: Jokic combines elements of both Kareem's and Magic's games.
As good as Duncan was, I never felt hopeless against him or that he was unsolvable. I would much rather face Duncan than Jokic.
This. Even with arguably the best defender in the NBA, it feels like he is a grown man playing with kids. He can get any shot for himself or others anytime he wants and will just grab the offensive board if they miss
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