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PopcornMachine
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2001
Posts: 10566
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Prometheus8
Star Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 1851
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 Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:55 am Post subject: |
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Kwame leading the team (again) with +22.
You know how you just feel better when certain players are in the game? Kwame has become one of those players for me. |
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golakersgo121
Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 11717
Location: 8 miles from Staples Center
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:18 am Post subject: |
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Pop,
thanks for an update, as usual - great job, man.
I'd like to ask your opinion, as you are the best stat analyses person I know.
Is there a way "to punish" statistrically Kwame and Luke for cheating Kobe out of two extra assists yesterday?  |
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k0pr0phage
Sixth Man
Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Popcorn, do you have a breakdown of the top players, over the course of a season or a month or whatever, in terms of these stats? I've never heard of HV before, but it sounds interesting. I'd like to see how well these stats match up with what the general basketball public (and myself) think of players who do well in HV, etc. |
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PopcornMachine
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2001
Posts: 10566
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| golakersgo121 wrote: | Pop,
thanks for an update, as usual - great job, man.
I'd like to ask your opinion, as you are the best stat analyses person I know.
Is there a way "to punish" statistrically Kwame and Luke for cheating Kobe out of two extra assists yesterday? |
There isn't data on passes that don't lead to baskets, but I think Kwame and Luke did OK anyway. And so did Kobe. 
| k0pr0phage wrote: | | Popcorn, do you have a breakdown of the top players, over the course of a season or a month or whatever, in terms of these stats? I've never heard of HV before, but it sounds interesting. I'd like to see how well these stats match up with what the general basketball public (and myself) think of players who do well in HV, etc. |
The HV and Prod are stats I made up myself. HV is just my short hand for positive things a player does in addition to points, so that I can fit it on the chart next to the points.
The BoxScore provides the Prod, a ratio of those good things a player does per minute, and the standard NBA MVP or Eff rating.
You can compare these for the season on the Team Stats page for the Lakers, or for any team NBA from my main page here: GameFlows.
I have also done some periodic analysis of these stats and group +/- at 15 games and 20 games. I will continue to do these periodically throughout the season, and archive them in the Smile Ratings / Game Flow forum.
My help page may come in handy.
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k0pr0phage
Sixth Man
Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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Very interesting stuff. Thanks for the response. I tinker with stats, but I only really bother with the Lakers. I don't get to see enough of opposing teams to gauge whether my stats match up with my thought about players.
Keep up the awesome work. |
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golakersgo121
Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 11717
Location: 8 miles from Staples Center
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| PopcornMachine wrote: | | golakersgo121 wrote: | Pop,
thanks for an update, as usual - great job, man.
I'd like to ask your opinion, as you are the best stat analyses person I know.
Is there a way "to punish" statistrically Kwame and Luke for cheating Kobe out of two extra assists yesterday? |
There isn't data on passes that don't lead to baskets, but I think Kwame and Luke did OK anyway. And so did Kobe.
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OK? They did great! Kwame vs. Yao becomes "must see TV"! Luke could have explored more his matchup inside, IMHO, but he did very well too. Shoot, if it was not for first half, it would have been a great game |
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A Mad Chinaman
Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6167
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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Considering Tex Winter's words (see below at http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-lakerep16dec16,1,2254974.story)
"Of course, when you have a player like Shaq and he's the apex of the offense, he pretty much insisted if he's going to do the job at the other end of the floor and be a team player, he had to get that ball on that post," said Tex Winter, the Lakers consultant who invented the offense.
"So that was our basic concept, to get the ball to Shaq. Of course, without Shaq, it becomes more of a team concept. Five players become a little bit more involved because you're not always throwing it into Shaq."
Winter didn't think the Chicago Bulls ever got his offense right when he was on Phil Jackson's staff as they were winning six NBA titles in the 1990s.
So if he says this season's Lakers are doing OK, that's pretty good.
"I'm a purist, so I always think they could do it better," Winter said. "I like to see the ball move and shared. At times, quite a bit this year, I've seen some improvement."
Jackson says the Lakers ran the offense well "for a while. Now that Kobe's really putting on the gas — he has taken a big leap in his conditioning and I thought [Tuesday] night he was really pushing it" in the Houston game.
He said the O'Neal-Bryant Lakers were "a team that wanted to do everything straight forward. Shaq wanted the ball straight in to him a lot of times and because of his size, he could post somebody up and hold them off.
"With this team, when we want to get the ball in, we may have to run the ball to one side of the court and swing it back to the other side. It takes some expertise … and that's what I've been exacting from this team. And they're doing a better job of it."
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Are there any stats that shows the following that might be used by Tex and/or Phil is gauging the effectiveness of the offensive sets:
** How many passes lead to a basket
** What kind of passes were made (just on the perimeter or in the paint)
** Did the passes lead to a drive in the paint or a clear/clean shot
** Effectiveness of the passes (variation on what was mentioned above)
** Legimate passes that were passed up (ala Smush prior to Rockets game)
Just wondering |
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PopcornMachine
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2001
Posts: 10566
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| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | Are there any stats that shows the following that might be used by Tex and/or Phil is gauging the effectiveness of the offensive sets:
** How many passes lead to a basket
** What kind of passes were made (just on the perimeter or in the paint)
** Did the passes lead to a drive in the paint or a clear/clean shot
** Effectiveness of the passes (variation on what was mentioned above)
** Legimate passes that were passed up (ala Smush prior to Rockets game)
Just wondering |
No, there is not data on passes that aren't assists. |
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PopcornMachine
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2001
Posts: 10566
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| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:25 am Post subject: |
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I was just looking at lineups last night, and thought I would share.
Top pairs:
| Code: | In min +/- permin Out min +/- permin adj48
Kwame Brown Brian Cook 16.71 20 57.451 41.29 -9 -10.463 67.913
Smush Parker Kwame Brown 37.07 22 28.487 20.93 -11 -25.227 53.714
Smush Parker Brian Cook 19.73 17 41.358 38.27 -6 -7.525 48.884
Kobe Bryant Smush Parker 41.42 19 22.018 16.58 -8 -23.160 45.179
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Top groups of three:
| Code: | In min +/- permin Out min +/- permin adj48
Smush Parker Kwame Brown Brian Cook 15.38 20 62.419 42.62 -9 -10.136 72.555
Kobe Bryant Kwame Brown Brian Cook 16.71 20 57.451 41.29 -9 -10.463 67.913
Kobe Bryant Luke Walton Brian Cook 14.59 15 49.349 43.41 -4 -4.423 53.772
Kobe Bryant Smush Parker Kwame Brown 37.07 22 28.487 20.93 -11 -25.227 53.714
Kobe Bryant Smush Parker Brian Cook 19.73 17 41.358 38.27 -6 -7.525 48.884
Smush Parker Luke Walton Kwame Brown 29.03 16 26.455 28.97 -5 -8.284 34.740
Kobe Bryant Luke Walton Kwame Brown 31.75 16 24.189 26.25 -5 -9.143 33.332
Kobe Bryant Smush Parker Luke Walton 33.35 13 18.711 24.65 -2 -3.895 22.605
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A Mad Chinaman
Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6167
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| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:09 am Post subject: |
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Do you know what type of charts/breakdowns/etc. that Tex uses to analyze the effectiveness of his "Triangle?"
fyi: Thanks for the data provided above |
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