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Mike@LG
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 Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Kwame was supposed to be the next KG |
Some of us already thought that was a poor comparison.
But hey, if you watched the workout, you'd be shocked too.
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:19 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Mike@LG"] | Quote: | I'd rather have him play better D than O. The concerted effort is there on D because it's more read and react, he doesn't need the ball to be effective.
On O? Considering how his guards treat him, where he fights for position and doesn't get the ball, has poorly thrown post passes his way, etc., should it really be worth the effort?
It's up to Oden to develop high post skills to get touches in the mid/high paint and be effective with it, but in a system so guard-heavy predicated on dribble penetration and jumpshots, it's hard to integrate a center into that system.
This is nothing compared to Duke and how well they integrated Boozer and Sheldon Williams, or Glen Davis at LSU. Chris Mihm, LaMarcus Aldridge, and quite a few other college bigmen had similar problems with the system and guard play.
For sure the conditioning isn't there yet, but for a 19 year old to be that dominant defensively, says a lot about the maturity of his game. He's unselfish, he's defensive oriented, and has proven to work hard in the offseason (otherwise there's no way he's even that effective with his left hand, alone the charity stripe.)
NBA Coaches are going to love that. |
Agree 100% on the D - I'd take him as the first overall pick just based on that alone. The O was just nonexistent, and I didn't see him huslting or getting into good position, I don't think Matta or his guards are going to help him at OSU, and I think he would be better off going pro.
It is one thing for Tim Duncan to stay 4 years at Wake, and improve and polish his game every year - I just don't see enough from OSU to think Oden is better off staying there. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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Duncan didn't have a great guard system at Wake either.
Just wait til next season when a couple of those guards are gone and Conley and Daequan Cook are left over.
Then it'll really be a stud offensive team with a sense of balance.
I'm just mad that Oden chose Ohio State over UConn or Duke.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:26 am Post subject: |
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Shutdown DJ White last night vs. Indiana. Got robbed on at least 4 blocked shots, especially considering White kept getting swatted under the hoop.
Best Defensive Game he's played in terms of man and team D.
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LakersMD
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| Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | Shutdown DJ White last night vs. Indiana. Got robbed on at least 4 blocked shots, especially considering White kept getting swatted under the hoop.
Best Defensive Game he's played in terms of man and team D. |
Isn't DJ White 6'8"? |
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dcarter4kobe
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| Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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angel
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| Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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I guess Oden had another good game. I wonder how poor some teams will play to try to get him.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| LakersMD wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | Shutdown DJ White last night vs. Indiana. Got robbed on at least 4 blocked shots, especially considering White kept getting swatted under the hoop.
Best Defensive Game he's played in terms of man and team D. |
Isn't DJ White 6'8"? |
A 20 10 2 PF. Yup.
Comparable to Al Horford in a lot of ways, especially in terms of size and post game. White got shut down on flat out man D.
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LakersMD
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| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | LakersMD wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | Shutdown DJ White last night vs. Indiana. Got robbed on at least 4 blocked shots, especially considering White kept getting swatted under the hoop.
Best Defensive Game he's played in terms of man and team D. |
Isn't DJ White 6'8"? |
A 20 10 2 PF. Yup. |
C'mon now Mike. DJ White is only averaging 14, 7, and 2. Like I said earlier, there's no need to over-exaggerate. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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Couldn't sworn they listed him at least 18 8 2 prior to the Ohio State game.
Regardless, he's the #1 block option and an NBA caliber prospect.
3 of 14 shooting... 2 of 14 against Oden.
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LakersMD
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| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | Couldn't sworn they listed him at least 18 8 2 prior to the Ohio State game.
Regardless, he's the #1 block option and an NBA caliber prospect.
3 of 14 shooting... 2 of 14 against Oden. |
Prior to the Ohio State game, DJ White was averaging 13, 8, and 2.
Against Ohio State he got 11, 8, and 2.
This year, he's already had bad shooting games against IUPUI (3-for-10), Duke (3-for-11) and Indiana State (4-for-12).
And I don't see him listed on any NBA mock drafts.
Oh well. I'm looking forward to seeing Oden against Wisconsin. Brian Butch dropped 27 and 11 on Aaron Gray and Pitt, but Oden should be able to push him around.
And at least Butch is 6'11". |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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Butch won't do much. He's perimeter oriented.
Gray can't keep up with that kind of speed.
But for a guy who's a legit post player, Oden shut him down, period. Just wish you saw what I watched.
As for the NBA mock draft... Nothing is even close to being set until May. If we could rely on mock drafts this early, then Dwyane Wade would've been a late 1st rounder drafted by the Lakers in 2003.
Draft sites are just listing players to keep track of them over the course of the season. That's it. There's usually about 150 top notch prospects to keep track of.... obviously too many to fill in 60 NBA team slots in the draft.
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LakersMD
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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Watching the game yesterday against Wisconsin, it appears Oden has a lot to learn about low-post footwork, and about how to obtain and maintain post position. He has really struggled in the low block in the 2 big games he's played this year (Florida and Wisconsin), and he's not very active looking for the ball on the offensive side of the court.
He's also had a lot of poor rebounding games, which I wasn't expecting. There's no way he should only get 5 or 6 rebounds in a game. I'm not sure how much can be attributed to his now healing wrist injury, but I'm sure he wouldn't use it as an excuse.
He's a hell of a shotblocker though.
He's clearly the #1 pick whenever he decides to come out, but I don't think he's as polished as some would believe. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'm not sure how much can be attributed to his now healing wrist injury, but I'm sure he wouldn't use it as an excuse. |
If the kid keeps shooting left handed free throws, I think it's a huge deal.
Just recently, within the past week or so, he was able to pull back on his right wrist.
Can't tell me it doesn't effect him.
As for Ohio State, they've lost top basically 3 top 5 teams. Considering their most talented lineup includes 3 freshman and Thad Matta isn't at the same level as Roy Williams coaching-wise nor talent wise, where he has top level recruits prior to a top recruiting class coming in to keep the team at #1.
Lately I've been watching Kansas. They know what they're doing with the talent. Darrell Arthur looks polished on the block. Brandon Rush on the wing. Mario Chalmers, defensive PG who's aggressive. Julian Wright, VC w/o the jumpshot but with the passing ability.
Sick team.
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The Buss
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | As for Ohio State, they've lost top basically 3 top 5 teams. Considering their most talented lineup includes 3 freshman and Thad Matta isn't at the same level as Roy Williams coaching-wise nor talent wise, where he has top level recruits prior to a top recruiting class coming in to keep the team at #1. |
Sometimes I really question Thad Matta's coaching ability. It seems like he doesn't really know how to use Oden effectivley. Either that or his guards are just too immature to follow the game plan. For a team that has someone like Oden, they sure do shoot a lot of contested 3's. Kinda sad actually.
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LakersMD
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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How long is the wrist going to be a problem? When it was first revealed he would have surgery in mid June the doctors told him he would be done with rehab by mid December.
LINK
He's almost a month behind schedule.
I'm a big Mario Chalmers fan by the way. |
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LakersMD
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| The Buss wrote: | | Sometimes I really question Thad Matta's coaching ability. It seems like he doesn't really know how to use Oden effectivley. Either that or his guards are just too immature to follow the game plan. For a team that has someone like Oden, they sure do shoot a lot of contested 3's. Kinda sad actually. |
Thad Matta has won every place he's been. He's turned Ohio State's program completely around in just a couple years. Before that he made Xavier, a team that nobody ever considered a big time program, into a top 10 team, and he has developed a dominant post player before - David West - who's having a great early NBA career if not for his recent injury.
The guard play may definitely contribute to Oden's lack of offensive output, because Conley is there only pass-first guy. Lewis, Cook, Butler are all gunners of the highest magnitude.
But that still doesn't take away from the fact that at this point Oden is simply not that aggressive offensively. He allows himself to get pushed out of position, he doesn't re-post, he rarely flashes hard, and he doesn't walk his defender up the lane when he's fronted.
Jonathan Givony over at draftexpress feels the same way that I do. He's still got enormous potential and is a surefire #1 pick but he's simply not as polished as some have hyped him to be. He'll get there though.
LINK |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Except look at David West now and see how he operates on the NBA level. Not much of a block player ... especially compared to his Xavier years.
Oden has always lacked that general offensive aggressiveness, but in HS, he'd blow up in the 2nd half against the elite comp.
I don't see how it's any different for any other project HS player. Howard. Stoudemire. O'Neal. etc.
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LakersMD
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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I agree. He'll get there.
I guess I'm just responding to those who have heaped unrealistic expectations on Oden, saying he's going to dominate right away, he's the next Bill Russell, and he's better than Dwight Howard right now. I like to present the other side of the argument because sometimes it gets a little one-sided here, for example with Deron Williams 2 drafts ago, who I defended frequently at the time.
I just like to see both sides being discussed.
But I think this discussion has run it's course (at least until the next game). |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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Considering I think he was far more advanced than Stoudemire and Dwight Howard out of HS, I'm not surprised by the comments.
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insidepresence
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:54 am Post subject: |
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Oden is absolutely destroying the Volunteers on CBS right now, 24/13/3/3 I think are his stats right now, might have more blocks, but just a monster.
Not to mention the fact that he is shooting something like 7-7 from the free throw line with just his left hand
Dude is ridiculous, the only thing I'll say is that he isn't playing against the best big man competition |
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angel
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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Oden was playing against guys who were 6'7". He was dominating smaller players. He won't be guarded by players that size in the NBA.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| angel wrote: | | Oden was playing against guys who were 6'7". He was dominating smaller players. He won't be guarded by players that size in the NBA. |
So we can say that about Oden and not Bynum. Nice.
It did help that he actually got the ball today.
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angel
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | angel wrote: | | Oden was playing against guys who were 6'7". He was dominating smaller players. He won't be guarded by players that size in the NBA. |
So we can say that about Oden and not Bynum. Nice.
It did help that he actually got the ball today. |
Bynum doesn't face any teenage shrimps. Oden may be a man among boys, but Bynum is a man among men. Oden did play well today, but his size advantage was glaring.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Bynum doesn't face any teenage shrimps. Oden may be a man among boys, but Bynum is a man among men. Oden did play well today, but his size advantage was glaring |
That's the thing. In HS. He did. All the time. Oden? Not quite.
Let me know when that man among men can actually hold and sustain position against every NBA player in the league. Then I'll believe it.
Otherwise, it's not like he faired all that great against Mutombo and Dwight.
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