LAKERS -vs- JAZZ - 10/23 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings
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DancingBarry
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:16 pm    Post subject: LAKERS -vs- JAZZ - 10/23 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings

3-19 and All She Wrote... The Lakers slumped out of the starting gate and promptly let the Jazz lap them. Shooting 3-19 in the first quarter to trail 34-14 -- too big a hole to climb out of. The Jazz took the game comfortably, 102-81.

I'm not sure this Chris Mihm/Kwame Brown first quarter/third quarter thing is doing the team any good. It might be helping Chris and Kwame with their recoveries, but that's about it. Kobe has certainly been awful with his role as Mr. Confusion. More about that in a bit.

The second unit seems to be the only consistent life the team has got. Whether it's the absence of Mr. Confusion or the addition of Farmar and Bynum, the second unit seems to play some spirited ball. Phil needs to rethink that starting squad and Kobe's role now that Lamar won't be ready to start the season.


Kobe -- -- This is the worst preseason I recall Kobe playing. Offensively, there is no fluidity to his game. Instead of reading and reacting, working out of the offense, and going to counters when the defense takes something away...he seems like he is continually trying cram the proverbial square peg into the round hole. He is barreling into triple teams. He is throwing high-risk passes into traffic. And, he's trying to make the extra spectacular play instead of the smart play. Simply put, he's playing like a rookie. Except the rookie spark and hubris seems to have been replaced with a dim flicker and a shrug. Memo to Phil: You have one of the greatest scorers the game has ever known. Bring him back. Rudy T has been down this path, it was ugly. Just put him into attack mode from the beginning instead of moving him there in the third quarter. There have been a number of times where the team simply looked better with Kobe off the floor. Guys don't know what he's doing. And Kobe doesn't look like he knows what he's doing. It's not working and LO isn't going to be back soon, so it's not pushing a talent like LO into an aggressive position on the court. Defensively, I still think he's coasting because it's preseason. But these throwaway games are about to end and we still have no defensive intensity or identity. The last place I'd expect that to come from is Kobe, but there it is. Kobe's first half consisted of a 1-9 shooting barrage and a boatload of bad decisions. He missed his first eight shots and he also opted to try a reverse dunk instead of a layup or regular dunk at the end of the half and the buzzer went off as he showboated. He finished the game with 15 points on 4-16 shooting, 3 rebounds, 2 assists with 4 turnovers and a couple of blocked shots. His highlight play of the night was a reach back flip in of a layup around Boozer.

Mihm -- -- After sitting out a couple of practices, Chris still looks plenty rusty. It seems like he has had a set back, and the slow progress we were seeing has plateaued. He's looking more and more like he'll be our third string center as the season approaches. Mihm has always been an offensive player that can work off others (run the pick and roll or pop, grab the interior feeds and finish, tip ins on the offensive glass or other garbage plays). It used to be he and Kobe would work that two-man game and Mihm would attack off the return feed from Kobe. They need to find that timing. Since both seem to be out of synch, it may take a while. Chris played 9 minutes, had 1 point and missed a jumper and jumphook, had 3 boards and 1 blocked shot.

DFish -- -- Fish was steamed tonight (see what I did there) with some of the officiating. He had a few words late in the game as he went to the bench. That might have been the most fired up anyone (besides Ronny, of course) looked tonight. He made just one shot, somehow tossing in a little baseline runner while taking contact. He finished with 5 points on 1-3 shooting and 3-5 from the line. It's somehow disturbing to me when he misses a FT. Don't know why. I guess I just expect them to go in from him. DFish said in yesterday's practice that the team chemistry on this Laker team is just "average." He really loved the guys on that Utah team, and seems to chalk up our chemistry issues as more of a youth thing.

Turiaf -- -- Ronny managed the Lakers only field goal in the first half of the first quarter. He swished his first attempt from about 17 feet out at the elbow. He hit the boards well in this game, grabbing a couple on the offensive end early on with some nice hustle. He also yanked down a few tough ones on the defensive end in traffic. He finished with 10 rebounds to go with 4 points on 2-2 shooting. He also had 1 block, 1 assist and 3 fouls in 25 minutes. Why is it that he seems to be the only guy in the starters that seems to be ready at game time? Everyone else comes out sleep walking.

Radmanovic -- -- I expect these kinds of games from Vlad. The question is just how frequent will they be? Hopefully, when LO comes back we will be able to get a quick read on Vlad when he's on or off and may our decisions for PT based on that. Vlad certainly seems to respond better off the bench so far this season. Vlad made one three pointer tonight (1-5 from three, 1-7 overall) for his 3 points and he had 1 foul and 2 turnovers in 19 minutes.

Bynum -- -- I wish he'd throw around his weight some more. Bang some bodies inside. Pick up an offensive foul for knocking someone over. Or a three-second call for planting himself a couple feet from the hoop, sealing his man and waiting for his slow-reacting teammates to make a post feed. His post game was generally disjointed and out of synch with the rest of the team. He needed to be more physical and fight for better position, and he needed the ball when he did look for it. That said, you still got 8 points on 3-5 shooting, 8 boards and 3 blocked shots with just 2 fouls in 25 minutes. He had one defensive stand where he blocked two shots. He followed that up the next time down by winging a jumper. You could see the effect this had on the Jazz as it altered their decisions in the paint, but we were still generally soft all around, especially on our own defensive glass. I'm infinitely more optimistic when he gets the ball with his back to the basket than any of the other Laker bigs right now. He's also been a willing passer, finding teammates and keeping the offense flowing.

Farmar -- -- Couldn't wait for Farmar to get in this game. The team needed his energy after the ridiculous start. Farmar led the team with 7 assists without a turnover and had 7 points on 2-4 shooting (just 3-7 from the line). His best play was a drive into traffic where he took some contact and got the And-1 to drop after a couple bounces in the rim. If the team is starting games looking lethargic, a real quick answer to that is giving Farmar the starting job. With Kobe's playmaking gone sour and DFish being a spot up shooter, I'd rather move Kobe to the attacking wing and have Farmar push tempo, attack in the Tri and give the team that impact they are lacking right now. Just go 7 or 8 minutes to start the game. Bring in Fish then and bring back Farmar 6 or 7 minutes later when Kobe is resting.

Crittenton -- -- Hey, we got to see Critt and Kobe play a little smoother together in this one when Critt got the second-half start after not playing in the first half. The difference to me is definitely Critt playing aggressive and not deferring. I even saw him throw a pass to someone on the other side of the floor when Kobe was looking for it. The more he can play aggressive, balanced ball with Kobe on the floor, the more potent that combo will be. If he sits back, he doesn't play to his strengths. Critt had the highlight play of the game tonight, when he lost his footing on a move near the hoop (looked like he got tripped), he still managed to somehow avoid the travel and flip the ball in the hoop as he was falling down. That was sweet, indeed. He also showed the ball-fake skills I talked about before the preseason, taking a feed in the lane, clearing the defender from under the hoop with the uber-quick fake, then scoring the layup. He dunked off a bust out when Ronny kicked it to him. He hit a couple of jumpers. Critt went 5-5 for 10 points in just 14 minutes.

Kwame -- -- He will probably start for the Lakers, although Bynum has been outplaying both him and Mihm. Phil will still give Bynum the bulk of the minutes, but keep the carrot of starting out in front of Bynum while asking him to improve on his D and aggressiveness. Nothing really to highlight for Kwame. He played 12 minutes, scored 3 points, making 1-1 from the floor and another sad 1-4 from the line. He also grabbed 3 boards and bounced Boozer off of him once in the open court. Kwame needs to remember to go back to simple ball in the post. Bump guys and look for your jumphook. Look for the ball, catch it. Finish strong.

Evans -- -- Mo was the second leading scorer for the Lakers on the night with 11 points on 4-6 shooting. He made his only three attempt. When Hot Mo is there, he needs to get a couple more threes off.

Cook -- -- This is one of those games where our offense has just a couple field goals where Phil was looking for some instant O to get things going. He didn't get much. Cook hit a 2-4 from three, but went 2-8 overall for his 8 points. He also pulled down 5 boards and had 3 turnovers in 24:34 of PT. He threw one of the worst lob passes to Bynum this season, clanking one off the other side of the backboard above the square. Nice.

Vujacic -- -- Sasha sank a couple of threes (2-4 from three, 2-8 overall) for his 6 points in 17 minutes. He certainly can fill up the shot chart in a short time. Unfortunately, he wasn't very productive tonight. The second units play with some energy and smoothness in their execution at times when Phil gets the right combo out there. You've got to keep a playmaking guard out there with Sasha. Depending on Sasha to create for himself or others won't exactly impose upon the other team.

Karl -- -- The competition for the last roster spot has been set free to pursue pro hoops in places unknown. Now, it's up to Karl to make the Lakers want to reach into their pocketbooks and pay twice the salary for him because of the luxury tax. He hasn't shown much anything. This wasn't quite the train wreck of the last game. He played 5 minutes, missed a quick chuck at a three and played decently on D. Still, it was a non event. Losing a game in San Diego probably doesn't help his cause. Before preseason, I predicted he'd be the guy to get the last roster spot, but he's not making a strong case...unless it's in practice...which could be the case as Phil alluded to.

Phil -- -- "We are concerned about it," Phil said in the Register, and described his starters as "lethargic and uncertain as to what to do."... I probably don't need to add too much to the above thoughts, as I've said a lot of Phil stuff throughout this... The Lakers shot a poor 39.7 percent from the floor and gave the Jazz 20 offensive boards. Not getting it done at either end... Luke will get some rest for his hip with this game off and the next one cancelled. Phil has talked about wanting Luke on the second unit, but when your first unit is playing lousy and LO won't be ready, it's time to consider putting your best players out there. Farmar, Kobe, Luke, Turiaf and Bynum need to see some extended PT together. Whatever lineup is going to play the bulk of the minutes needs to be on the floor and getting some run together before the season gets underway... Phil on Odom's delay: "We've been without him since we started training camp, so we have a way to play. Last year, we played without Kobe for a couple games and won our first two games of the season. There's a way to patch this up if you're ready to play."...
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MedRomLaker
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:52 pm    Post subject:

Great post DB, thanks for posting this up I always look forward to reading your posts after every game. But with Bynum he did pick up a clear-out foul, while trying to gain post position, he was really aggressive and after he got that foul he seemed to get pumped up and ended up blocking the jazz twice. Other than that I totally agree with your assessment of this game.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:56 pm    Post subject:

He did have that foul, but that was more of a finesse foul, if I recall. I'm looking for a physical one. A knock-you-on-your-ass foul. That's what I'm saying with "knocking someone over". It's about imposing himself at a more physical level.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:58 pm    Post subject: Re: LAKERS -vs- JAZZ - 10/23 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings

DancingBarry wrote:
[b]
I'm not sure this Chris Mihm/Kwame Brown first quarter/third quarter thing is doing the team any good. It might be helping Chris and Kwame with their recoveries, but that's about it. Kobe has certainly been awful with his role as Mr. Confusion. More about that in a bit.



Maybe, and just maybe, Phil is planning on starting Kwame against Yao, getting him tired and then throw AB against him. That´s besides getting those two ready to play.

And about Kobe I don´t know what to say. Maybe he´s playing his way out of the team, maybe he´s having the after Tournament of the AMericas syndrome. Or maybe he´s playing his main weaknesses, be those fastbreaking or finding the middle ground between being assertive or deferring.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:04 am    Post subject:

We might be averaging 19-20 Turnovers per game this pre-season. Glad i did not watch this game it would probably make me ugly just by witnessing the game.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:12 am    Post subject:

You make some good points, pask. I'm losing respect for Kobe with increasing speed. There is no excuse for his level of play lately. None, that is, unless he has some undiagnosed illness that needs treatment (physical or mental.)

I could swear I heard a significant smattering of boos directed not at the team, but at Kobe directly during that game. Not good.

Unlike a lot of fans here, if he's gone, and this is the way he is going out, I'm not wishing him well. I'm wishing the Lakers put together a string of championships that Kobe can watch them win on TV.
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pask
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:27 am    Post subject:

Thanks, RedSnapper! I´ve been a Laker fans since the start of the Showtime era,so my fidelities are clear. I never was a Jordan/Bulls fan. I remained on board. I´ve already suffered a 12 year drought of titles, so this small slump since Shaq is nothing compared to then. I even see bigger chances now to field a championship team than in the Divac/Van Exel/Ceballos era. And I really thing those FO bashing is annoying and stupid.

I have a signed and dedicated Kobe shirt in my office, but that won´t keep me to think that his game is far from perfect, especially on the intellectual and collective side of basketball. I´ll like him to remain a Laker, but as Buss said, I´ll be listening to offers.

And If he keeps playing the way he´s been this offseason, I´ll gladly accept any trade that keeps us competitive and with a brighter future.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:38 am    Post subject:

Thanks DB. I really appreciate you toughing it out on these kinds of losses.

Might be another blowout, but I wish we could've had that extra game on Thursday. We need all the exhibition games we can get to continually work on our lineups and the player's individual games. Hope everyone is safe in the Southern California area and that the fires will be diminished as soon as possible.


Liked Farmar's assist-to-turnover ratio and Turiaf's rebounding in this one.
Glad to see that Crittenton is adjusting better with Kobe on the floor in terms of aggressiveness. Wow, in terms of consistency, is Sasha playing better than Vlad?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:45 am    Post subject:

I like Bynum, Farmar and Critt..kinda makes me wish we had Deng and LO to compliment them wit Turiaf and others..

i dont know if i like Kobe on this team anymore..he doesnt fit. I rather have Farmar and Critt start and get more time.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:57 am    Post subject:

DB - appreciating greatly your breakdown/analysis, it leads to some questions where I seek your viewpoint:

Kobe's Role as a Passer - Do you feel that Kobe's comments is that he is just trying various passes to see what will work - many are passes that he wouldn't attempt during the season - are legimiate, or is there other issues?

Team Chemistry - Highlighting your DFish comments that the chemistry is just average, do you feel that the distractions surrounding Kobe is the main factor behind this?

Team Leadership - Given the Kobe situation - along with his many "careless" passes and LO not being on the court, do you feel that this has left a leadership vacuum that has led to lack of chemistry, focus, lackadiasal efforts, etc.?

LO - Is is safe to assum that LO is not close to being ready to play in the Lakers' opening game. With many of the games against teams that were .500+ teams last season - hence not provide PT where LO can use as his "Preseason" - where we will not see LO on the court till like the 9th or 10th game of the season?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:14 am    Post subject:

A Mad Chinaman wrote:

Kobe's Role as a Passer - Do you feel that Kobe's comments is that he is just trying various passes to see what will work - many are passes that he wouldn't attempt during the season - are legimiate, or is there other issues?

Definitely on some of them. He's fooling around a little, gambling for a great play, some showboating. The general intensity isn't there on some of those and the high-risk passes will be cut back a little. But, he's also not quite suited for the role and there are bad decisions being made. I've got to believe, however, that when the ball is up and the opening game is going, we'll see the Kobe of old busting his butt out there. He doesn't want to look at his stat sheet and see a crap game.

Quote:

Team Chemistry - Highlighting your DFish comments that the chemistry is just average, do you feel that the distractions surrounding Kobe is the main factor behind this?

It's not helping, that's for sure. But I think DFish and the coaches probably have the attention of most of the players. It's just Fish knows what good team chemistry is. He knows what a championship mindset is and can compare. He also mentioned we don't have the mindset like the old Lakers did.

Quote:

Team Leadership - Given the Kobe situation - along with his many "careless" passes and LO not being on the court, do you feel that this has left a leadership vacuum that has led to lack of chemistry, focus, lackadiasal efforts, etc.?

Yeah, I do. I think Kobe would normally be busting the opponent, then be unaccepting of the L's when the came. It's preseason, so I just get the feeling he doesn't care about that. Got to believe that will change in a week.

Quote:

LO - Is is safe to assum that LO is not close to being ready to play in the Lakers' opening game. With many of the games against teams that were .500+ teams last season - hence not provide PT where LO can use as his "Preseason" - where we will not see LO on the court till like the 9th or 10th game of the season?


Seems we won't see him for the first three games for sure. I think Phil will stick him in the mix as soon as possible. Preseason Odom>>>>>Cook.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:34 am    Post subject:

DB, do you believe people are overreacting over Bryant's play? My Lord, alarm bells ring and people have been accusing him of Pulling a VC because he is playing poorly in pre season. I guess fans in Washington and San antonio are shaking in their boots with their superstars playing badly also. I mean, Kobe said he was coasting, so did Fish.

Maybe it is what it is. Conspiracy theories are almost always wrong
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:10 am    Post subject:

It was nice to see Turiaf getting some rebounds (10 rebs in 25 minutes).

Kobe really stunk it up out there.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:36 am    Post subject:

melo061 wrote:
DB, do you believe people are overreacting over Bryant's play? My Lord, alarm bells ring and people have been accusing him of Pulling a VC because he is playing poorly in pre season. I guess fans in Washington and San antonio are shaking in their boots with their superstars playing badly also. I mean, Kobe said he was coasting, so did Fish.

Maybe it is what it is. Conspiracy theories are almost always wrong


Does it seem right to you that Kobe Bryant is coasting? Have you ever heard of a game or even a practice where Kobe was coasting before? For whatever reason his ability level is not where it normally is (too much off season basketball?) and it highlights the fact that without his offensive contribution there isn't much there to admire. His decision making in these games is atrocious. If we can bash Cook for these same things--and I am first in line for that--we should be able to do the same for Kobe.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:40 am    Post subject:

targetman wrote:
melo061 wrote:
DB, do you believe people are overreacting over Bryant's play? My Lord, alarm bells ring and people have been accusing him of Pulling a VC because he is playing poorly in pre season. I guess fans in Washington and San antonio are shaking in their boots with their superstars playing badly also. I mean, Kobe said he was coasting, so did Fish.

Maybe it is what it is. Conspiracy theories are almost always wrong


Does it seem right to you that Kobe Bryant is coasting? Have you ever heard of a game or even a practice where Kobe was coasting before? For whatever reason his ability level is not where it normally is (too much off season basketball?) and it highlights the fact that without his offensive contribution there isn't much there to admire. His decision making in these games is atrocious. If we can bash Cook for these same things--and I am first in line for that--we should be able to do the same for Kobe.


Yes. A 12 yet Vet with a lot of mileage who realizes he is aging can Coast. Kobe is not the same Kobe you knew. He played all summer long. He need a little rest.

Kobe explained it as experimentation. How about people Wait untill the season is underway before they say he is quitting?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:45 am    Post subject:

You know, after all the drama in the off-season. I can finally put a smile on my face when I think about the Lakers. I can't wait to see Bynum develop and play in the regular season. Hopefully, Kobe will stick around long enough to see him thrive.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:41 am    Post subject:

Sounds terrible. Thanks anyways D.B.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:52 am    Post subject:

melo061 wrote:
targetman wrote:
melo061 wrote:
DB, do you believe people are overreacting over Bryant's play? My Lord, alarm bells ring and people have been accusing him of Pulling a VC because he is playing poorly in pre season. I guess fans in Washington and San antonio are shaking in their boots with their superstars playing badly also. I mean, Kobe said he was coasting, so did Fish.

Maybe it is what it is. Conspiracy theories are almost always wrong


Does it seem right to you that Kobe Bryant is coasting? Have you ever heard of a game or even a practice where Kobe was coasting before? For whatever reason his ability level is not where it normally is (too much off season basketball?) and it highlights the fact that without his offensive contribution there isn't much there to admire. His decision making in these games is atrocious. If we can bash Cook for these same things--and I am first in line for that--we should be able to do the same for Kobe.


Yes. A 12 yet Vet with a lot of mileage who realizes he is aging can Coast. Kobe is not the same Kobe you knew. He played all summer long. He need a little rest.

Kobe explained it as experimentation. How about people Wait untill the season is underway before they say he is quitting?


What's troubling to me is it didn't look like Kobe was coasting at all last night, he was working hard and getting burned on O and D.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:53 am    Post subject:

BTW, Thanks DB, win or lose I always read your emoticon'd analysis.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:11 am    Post subject:

PJ's past means nothing to me anymore.
Best PG=Farmar
Best center= AB

PJ looks like he is trying to over think ish and its weak.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:15 am    Post subject:

Thanks DB very accurate and informative piece
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:24 am    Post subject:

Kobe CAN be the facilitator, I keep saying it, remember the 2006 Suns series with, where we up 3 to 1 with Kobe being in full pass first mode. And that team was not nearly as strong as this one is. I don't know what is wrong with him now. Well maybe I know. I hope that is not it, because if he is goofing on purpose to get traded it will be a LONG season.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:02 am    Post subject:

I thought Bynum and Ronny out there together for a few minutes was intriguing. Bynum was getting a lot of attention and that freed up Ronny to grab a lot of boards.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:05 am    Post subject:

One of the big reasons I am being patient with the 1st unit is that I understand that the best scorer and offensive player after Kobe is out.

I mean Kobe playing guard without having a legit impact threat next to him is not going to look good.

IMO Phil's vision of Kobe playing guard has Odom in it too - at the wing. Lets see how they play once they get Odom back.

Hell, even if Walton is starting at SF on opening night, I think the Lakers 1st unit will be a lot better.

Brown (on Yao)
Turiaf (on Scola)
Walton (on Battier)
Bryant (on McGrady)
Fisher (on Francis/Alston/James)
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:16 am    Post subject:

If we see 12 guys getting playing time in the regular season, and some guys playing 25 minutes one night, and 5 minutes the next, and Kwame starting at center, I am going to lose it.


Phil needs to try locking in a rotation and going with it so these guys can develop a routine.

Farmar/Fisher
Kobe/Evans or Critt
Odom/Luke
Turiaf/Mihm
Bynum/Kwame

Tweak the back of the bench If that doesn't work by taking out some of the bench guys and replacing with Sasha, Rad, Evans or Critt.
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