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20,000
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 Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:38 am Post subject: |
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Here is what I don't get.
During this preseason, Bynum has shown some really good basketball skills. This offseason has really been good to Bynum.
But Phil is not starting him. He is not putting him in quickly. I get that is to keep him hungry and keep jabbing at him, but it seems ridiculous.
Furthermore, when Bynum does go in, the other players don't look for him. I saw one play last night where Bynum set a pick, then rolled down and had a small guarding him in the low post. But then Karl, I think, spun the ball the other way and someone took a dumb and long three. I was livid! But is that because Karl did not recognize the play, or is it because it is by design by Phil to not go into Bynum hence teaching Jim Buss a lesson. Or whatever reason.
Bynum is looking good out there. He is playing damn well. But he should not just be a clean up player. He needs to be an option out there. The triangle will work well when the ball is passed down to the low post and that player looks out for cutters and shooters. But this team is so perimeter-oriented it is sickening.
Argh!!!!!!!!!!!
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| encina1 wrote: | Here is what I don't get.
During this preseason, Bynum has shown some really good basketball skills. This offseason has really been good to Bynum.
But Phil is not starting him. He is not putting him in quickly. I get that is to keep him hungry and keep jabbing at him, but it seems ridiculous.
Furthermore, when Bynum does go in, the other players don't look for him. I saw one play last night where Bynum set a pick, then rolled down and had a small guarding him in the low post. But then Karl, I think, spun the ball the other way and someone took a dumb and long three. I was livid! But is that because Karl did not recognize the play, or is it because it is by design by Phil to not go into Bynum hence teaching Jim Buss a lesson. Or whatever reason.
Bynum is looking good out there. He is playing damn well. But he should not just be a clean up player. He needs to be an option out there. The triangle will work well when the ball is passed down to the low post and that player looks out for cutters and shooters. But this team is so perimeter-oriented it is sickening.
Argh!!!!!!!!!!! |
Bynum is looking great, but don't read in too much if he doesn't start.
1. Phil knows how good Bynum is, no matter what he says to the press. But, Phil wants to keep Kwame involved - and starting him helps.
2. Bynum will still get the bulk of the minutes. But if Kobe is on the team, we need defense, and Kwame is better to start.
3. I don't think that Phil wants Bynum to have to start for the first game against Yao. Bring him off the bench, and let him split time facing the starters and the bench.
4. Speaking of Yao, he averaged 13/8 on 49.8 % in 29 MPG at age 22. Bynum should beat those numbers THIS year, at age 20. |
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hi_ma
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:36 am Post subject: |
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I am a big fan of farmar/AB/RT/JC
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DancingBarry
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| NatureBoy wrote: | Good work, DB.
How long does it take you to write up one of these things? |
It depends on how much detail I put into it. Not counting the time it takes to do the notes during the game, probably an hour to an hour and half. |
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DancingBarry
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| KOBE 2.0 wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | | hoe shooting 1-3 and scoring 4 pionts. |
DB are you amazed how steadly Bynum's offense has improved? |
Oops, not sure what was going on with those typos.
Am I amazed at what he's done? No. If he puts in the work, this is what the outcome will be. I said when we drafted him, we'll have to give him 3-4 years. So, I think he's still on that pace. Very good preseason. I think with the trainer and his awareness of when he bonked last season, that he should be able to play much more like this without fading like he did last season. |
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DancingBarry
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| s_habe wrote: | Is it me or do other Lakers actually play better without Kobe?
I did not see the game and my guess is opposite to the overview of DB here, but I remember the opening of the last season. I like the balance. There are players in this team who can and do step up. (forget about Cook and Sasha I am not referring to them. After all, they can hardly be called players...) I just hope Bryant-fascilitator (which has not worked too well yet) will pay off and guys will not get stagnant whe Kobe gets back to the lineup. |
Like I said in the last game, the offense is totally confused with him out there. They don't know what he's going to do and the spacing is horrible. I'd much rather see him aggressive and passing from other points on the floor where guys can run their TRi cuts effectively. Kobe has also been horrible on the break this offseason, but I think some of that is him trying to hotdog too much in preseason. Still, you bring in Farmar at the lead guard and make him facilitate, then move Kobe back to his scoring-role and in his sweet spots in the offense and I think the team plays a lot better. When LO gets back and Kobe is doing a little facilitating, he might defer to LO in the post a bit more against SFs and that will also look better. But I definitely like Farmar moving to the first unit and pushing Kobe over...I think then the unit will function a lot better. |
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DancingBarry
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: |
Re: Cook
If Cook is not hitting his shots, how short a leash do you think PJ will give him? In the previous game, Cook actually put the ball on the court to get a layup, why haven't we seen this more?
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He did look good on that play, but I know last season as soon as Cook put the ball on the floor he should look to pass. He would miss ever shot off the dribble. It was like clockwork. How short a leash will depend on how much depth Phil has to play with. I think when LO gets back, Cook is probably buried. Maybe given a short stint to see if his shot is going.
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Re: The Facillator - Luke vs. Kobe
With the obvious skills of Luke and the difficiencies of Kobe passing the ball consistently (along with his skills as a scorer or passing while attempting to score his greatest skill), how do you think that this situation will work itself out since it appears that Luke (when everybody is healthy) will be on the second unit?
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Not exactly sure. I think some of it may be doomed for failure. We'll see. Luke on the second unit when LO comes back will probably be fine. But I like the Turiaf/Luke chemistry we have seen. And I think Bynum will definitely benefit from Luke on that unit.
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Re: Bynum's Consistency
From your viewpoint, what do you think Bynum can produce consistently and during the last 20 games of the regular season? How do you think that PJ will play him to allow him to be consistent since he can't (or should not) average 30+ minutes per game - may 20 to 25 minutes? |
I'm not sure. The last part of the season will definitely be interesting to watch. Since Bynum has his trainer with him all season, I'm optimistic on his conditioning and strength staying with him. It does look like Phil is planning 25 minutes or so for Bynum. Some nights I wish he'd get more. He's been holding up well to the minutes he's getting, but I'd like to see how many he can take in a game, too, before we see him really sucking wind. |
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DancingBarry
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| encina1 wrote: |
Furthermore, when Bynum does go in, the other players don't look for him. I saw one play last night where Bynum set a pick, then rolled down and had a small guarding him in the low post. But then Karl, I think, spun the ball the other way and someone took a dumb and long three. I was livid! But is that because Karl did not recognize the play, or is it because it is by design by Phil to not go into Bynum hence teaching Jim Buss a lesson. Or whatever reason.
Bynum is looking good out there. He is playing damn well. But he should not just be a clean up player. He needs to be an option out there. The triangle will work well when the ball is passed down to the low post and that player looks out for cutters and shooters. But this team is so perimeter-oriented it is sickening.
Argh!!!!!!!!!!! |
Their hoop IQ in playing with Bynum right now is extremely low. It goes beyond the simple pick and roll. They don't know how to run their Tri counters as I've mentioned...the corner sequences, the high-lows...he could get about 6-8 more touches on those every game but we aren't thinking out there, even though he is looking for those sequences.
One of the better pass sequences last game came from Fish and Luke moving the ball from strong side to weakside with speed and entering it. Obviously, they have the hoop IQ to read and react, and they did. Just another reason for Fish to move to that Bynum lineup and start Farmar. Also, when LO gets back, if Walton gets bumped to the second unit that will help, too. I can see that chemistry developing if given the shot. Those two played with Shaq, they knew how to get the ball to him when he's fronted and sealing. They run the counters in the offense that Bynum is looking for. |
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| DancingBarry wrote: | | Like I said in the last game, the offense is totally confused with him out there. They don't know what he's going to do and the spacing is horrible. I'd much rather see him aggressive and passing from other points on the floor where guys can run their TRi cuts effectively. Kobe has also been horrible on the break this offseason, but I think some of that is him trying to hotdog too much in preseason. Still, you bring in Farmar at the lead guard and rmake him facilitate, then move Kobe back to his scoring-role and in his sweet spots in the offense and I think the team plays a lot better. When LO gets back and Kobe is doing a little facilitating, he might defer to LO in the post a bit more against SFs and that will also look better. But I definitely like Farmar moving to the first unit and pushing Kobe over...I think then the unit will function a lot better. |
Thanks for your comments.
Question
1) Kobe is "Hot-Dogging" on court - this from the most serious and focused player who has only winning on his mind?!?! If this phrase was used on most other players (even superstars - though I don't think that you will find TD, KG, LeBron, JKidd, DWade, Yao, McGrady, etc. "hot-dogging" it) - they would be accused of not taking the game seriously. Add that Kobe has been careless with his passes - could he be thinking that since these players won't get his passes, might as well try the fancy one for an ESPN highlight? In addition, with posters thinking that he is "coasting" - from a player that is the best-conditioned player in the game?!?!?! Wouldn't playing him less minutes (if he is in shape - surprising that we are even asking this question) of focused play better than more minutes of mistakes cuz what can the team learn from plays that Kobe admits he probably won't be trying during the season?!?! |
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Shaber
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: |
Question
1) Kobe is "Hot-Dogging" on court - this from the most serious and focused player who has only winning on his mind?!?! If this phrase was used on most other players (even superstars - though I don't think that you will find TD, KG, LeBron, JKidd, DWade, Yao, McGrady, etc. "hot-dogging" it) - they would be accused of not taking the game seriously. Add that Kobe has been careless with his passes - could he be thinking that since these players won't get his passes, might as well try the fancy one for an ESPN highlight? In addition, with posters thinking that he is "coasting" - from a player that is the best-conditioned player in the game?!?!?! Wouldn't playing him less minutes (if he is in shape - surprising that we are even asking this question) of focused play better than more minutes of mistakes cuz what can the team learn from plays that Kobe admits he probably won't be trying during the season?!?! |
Personally, I think it all comes down to Phil J. If he was coaching for the team to win he would bench Bryant when Bryant is not committed to the game. Phil should, no he must be able to recognise these moments. That's why he is the coach. If Phil was coaching for arguing with any of the Buss or for support of Kobe, Buss should fire Phil. Now Buss must recognise when the coach is not there for the sake of winning and has hes personal agenda...
Right now, I have troubles to recognise what Phil is doing. I have an impression that Kobe is not playing for the wins anymore. He is playing for his personal agenda, or not playing to make a statement or something (I have troubles trusting that he is injured). Only he is miscalculating. All it does is to make him look bad. Does Phil react? I think even for Phil it would be easier to concentrate on the game if Kobe was gone.
For some reason, Phil is not coaching Kobe. Bryant can do all he wants on the court. Yes, Phil has given him some tasks, but Kobe is either incapable or unwilling to carry out what Phil asks. Again, the question will be, does Phil react to this situation? Or how he will react, will he make adjustments? |
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DancingBarry
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: |
Question
1) Kobe is "Hot-Dogging" on court - this from the most serious and focused player who has only winning on his mind?!?! If this phrase was used on most other players (even superstars - though I don't think that you will find TD, KG, LeBron, JKidd, DWade, Yao, McGrady, etc. "hot-dogging" it) - they would be accused of not taking the game seriously. Add that Kobe has been careless with his passes - could he be thinking that since these players won't get his passes, might as well try the fancy one for an ESPN highlight? In addition, with posters thinking that he is "coasting" - from a player that is the best-conditioned player in the game?!?!?! Wouldn't playing him less minutes (if he is in shape - surprising that we are even asking this question) of focused play better than more minutes of mistakes cuz what can the team learn from plays that Kobe admits he probably won't be trying during the season?!?! |
I think there were certainly times he just wasn't playing with his complete intensity and focus. So, he'd try to fool around a little, go for the dribble between the legs in a mob or try to pull off a tricky pass in a crowd. He calls it "experimenting" with some passes and stuff. That's fine and it's not a real big deal. I can look past that stuff because I know when the stats and W's begin to count Kobe's going to lock in. I think what is probably irking Phil more is some of the confusion Kobe is bringing to the offense. He's totally out of synch in the role Phil wants him. And he wasted some of their preseason not working harder to get that first unit in synch. Perhaps, Kobe thought he had a little more time...we had a game cancelled and another he missed with the injury. So, that could be at play.
I thought Kobe's intensity was fairly decent the last game against the Jazz. I just don't like him out on the strongside stopping the ball, confusing the offense and attacking in odd places and times. Get him back to his sweet spots and we'll look a lot better. Unfortunately, I think that may require a different PG running with him to start games to help push him back to a more productive role for that unit. |
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DancingBarry
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| s_habe wrote: |
Personally, I think it all comes down to Phil J. If he was coaching for the team to win he would bench Bryant when Bryant is not committed to the game. Phil should, no he must be able to recognise these moments.
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Phil did bench him. Even said he sat Kobe down to the press after a particularly bad first half.
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For some reason, Phil is not coaching Kobe. Bryant can do all he wants on the court. Yes, Phil has given him some tasks, but Kobe is either incapable or unwilling to carry out what Phil asks. Again, the question will be, does Phil react to this situation? Or how he will react, will he make adjustments? |
I don't agree. He benched Kobe. We even had the mysterious Kobe sitting out of practice by "mutual agreement" comment. And now Phil has called him out a little more in the press...but he also said this wasn't "new news". He even said he'd still be coach if Kobe wasn't here.
I'm not sure the Kobe/facilitator role will work to our strengths for a variety of reasons as I've explained in a few spots. Not sure how Phil will react if it doesn't. He can be a little stubborn at times, too. But if he does make an adjustment (moving Kobe back to his role last season), it's not exactly a bad option. |
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Shaber
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| DancingBarry wrote: |
I think there were certainly times he just wasn't playing with his complete intensity and focus. So, he'd try to fool around a little, go for the dribble between the legs in a mob or try to pull off a tricky pass in a crowd. He calls it "experimenting" with some passes and stuff. That's fine and it's not a real big deal. I can look past that stuff because I know when the stats and W's begin to count Kobe's going to lock in. I think what is probably irking Phil more is some of the confusion Kobe is bringing to the offense. He's totally out of synch in the role Phil wants him. And he wasted some of their preseason not working harder to get that first unit in synch. Perhaps, Kobe thought he had a little more time...we had a game cancelled and another he missed with the injury. So, that could be at play. |
I'm actually glad that Phil publicly criticised Kobe. Maybe it will piss Kobe off and makes him work harder. Some players need to be angry.
But the attitude of Kobe and inability to learn the new system will be seen on the court and will cost us games (if Kobe is still going to be around). There is one thing I have learned from my coaches - what you do during the practice, is what you will do when it counts. I have no reason to believe that if Kobe was our leading turnover-guy in practice games (preseason), he will not be like that during regular season. Throwing stupid passes and making nonsense plays will not enable to build a chemistry and mutual understanding with teammates. There will be dividends to be paid. This is all part of the attitude too. |
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Shaber
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| DancingBarry wrote: |
I don't agree. He benched Kobe. We even had the mysterious Kobe sitting out of practice by "mutual agreement" comment |
OK. I have not seen all the games of preseason. I'm glad if it is this way. But somehow I have had an impression that sitting out practices and games are more because of Kobes initiative. Something that comes with the trade talk and fight between Kobe and dr. Buss... |
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DancingBarry
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:24 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, I do think Kobe/Buss thing has come into play...but I think Phil also said to him that he didn't want him there if his heart and mind wasn't going to be in it, at least that's what I'm hearing and it jives with everything else.
Regarding what you said about the dividends to be paid. Yep, it will cost us, no doubt. We didn't make progress like we should have. I do think Kobe will be more mindful about finding his sweet spots in the offense, though, and cutting down on a few things...but we will likely pay a price. |
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revgen
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| melo061 wrote: | | s_habe wrote: | Is it me or do other Lakers actually play better without Kobe?
I did not see the game and my guess is opposite to the overview of DB here, but I remember the opening of the last season. I like the balance. There are players in this team who can and do step up. (forget about Cook and Sasha I am not referring to them. After all, they can hardly be called players...) I just hope Bryant-fascilitator (which has not worked too well yet) will pay off and guys will not get stagnant whe Kobe gets back to the lineup. |
Yes, Kobe Facilitating simply does not work. When Farmar runs the game, the teams just looks more fluid. |
Kobe facilitating is fine. Just as long as he's not doing the run 'n gun style Phil has implemented. This run 'n gun style for the 1st unit should theoretically work once Lamar comes back. Lamar will run it just the way he did with the Clippers and the Heat. If Kobe is going to be facilitating, then Phil ought to take Ronny out and put Luke in until Lamar is back, and just run the triangle excusively. |
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