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Rick12322
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 19164
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 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:07 am Post subject: Re: NETS -at- LAKERS - 11/25 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings |
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| DancingBarry wrote: |
Phil --  -- He said he needs to talk to Dr. Buss about his 2-year $24 million extension that is on the table before making his thoughts known publically. Come on? Two year, $24 mil? Is he really contemplating anything? I'm curious about what that conversation goes like. Does he ask for a more veteran ball club? A certain move made? What?... |
He wants LO traded for a 2 way PF. |
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Mr. EiGhTy-OnE
Star Player
Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 8272
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:12 am Post subject: |
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Phil sabotaged another one...
Dr. Buss does not pay Phil $10 million per to sleep with his daughter, he pays Phil to coach. Phil could have easily stopped the bleeding early in the 4th but he sat back and let the second unit take us out of the game. Ive always said how is Kobe getting rest if he has to come back into the game in a bigger hole and has to dig that much harder to get back in the game. he is exerting more energy that way. A timeout would have been nice, but instead Phil let them push the lead to double figures. A lineup with Vlad/sasha/Luke cant stop RJ or VC. it all goes back to the Phoenix game when D'antoni was pissed and Phil said he looks for ways to speed the game up. i use to think that Phil didnt call timeouts because he wanted to let the players figure out a way to dig themselves out but the real reason is that he doesnt want to slow the game down, because he cant wait to get his replaced hip off of his extra comfy chair and go home. I know people will defend him and say he is a hall of fame coach and has won nine rings and who am i to question him, but i cant take his (bleep) anymore. even though the last play was drawn up for Kobe/Drew I bet Phil was glad Vlad shot a 3 (even though u play for OT at home) because whether he made it or not the game would be over. Lakers lost, Phil won, the game didnt last any longer than it had to. I really hope Phil doesnt sign the extension.
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"When (Kobe) gets you on life support, he won't give you mouth to mouth. HE PULLS THE PLUG." -stu
Last edited by Mr. EiGhTy-OnE on Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Tony Almeida
Retired
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 12072
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:32 am Post subject: Re: NETS -at- LAKERS - 11/25 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings |
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| DancingBarry wrote: | Heard at the Game --   -- The final play in the huddle was heard to be drawn up for Kobe to get the ball and attack. Kobe was furious he didn't get the ball on the play... He was also particularly aggressive demanding the ball earlier and ticked at Luke and Lamar when they didn't give him the ball on other possessions... Odom and Phil got into it repeatedly during the game, with LO saying he was working his ass off and Phil telling him he was bringing us down... |
Yeesh.
No bueno.
I could definitley see where Phil was coming from with regards to LO. I thought Lamar played well on both sides of the ball for approximately 1.5 quarters of the game, and then all but disappeared the rest of the time - despite playing 38 minutes.
Anyways, thanks for the recap as always DB.  |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58348
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Without Odom handling the ball now, he has noway of getting the ball in scoring position, unless a teammate looks for him.
Odom played the right way last night, he was not a problem. I think almost everytime he was in the game, the Lakers were outscoring the Nets. IIRC the Lakers lost this game when he and Kobe were on the bench. I don't remember the Nets going on a big run with Odom out there.
The problem is that even when posts up or gets into a good scoring position, a jumper is picked to shoot already. That is the biggest problem with this team. They do not find the highest percentage shot for the best scorers on the team. Confidence is a good thing, but when you have so many players that can either shoot or pass, then that's all they'll do. |
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Freakout
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 11796
Location: WV
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:53 am Post subject: |
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Odom for Jefferson  |
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Laker's Fan
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Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12883
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:29 am Post subject: |
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There are definitely some silver linings from today's game. First, Ariza is clearly the athletic wing defender we have been clamoring for. He has good length and quick feet. Vince hit some tough shots over him but those would have been layups against Walton or Radman. Once he gets the offensive sets down he will get minutes and our defense will improve as a direct result.
Secondly, Bynum just got experince you can't teach. It is one thing to get 'minutes' to prove (mostly to yourself) that you can be productive and a sense for the speed of the game. It is another to be a primary player in a score or loose situation. It may not have gone our way this time but I have a feeling that Socks will learn that lesson quickly.
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Austin Reaves keeps his game tight, like Kobe Bryant on game night. |
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D Nice
Star Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 1933
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | D Nice wrote: | We could get a consistent #2, plug our defensive holes, and get some big man depth. All it takes is Odom for Marion and Brown/2nd Round Picks for K. Thomas.
PG: Farmar/Fisher/Crittenton
SG: Kobe/Ariza/Sasha
SF: Marion/Walton/Carl
PF: Turiaf/Thomas/Vlad
Cc: Bynum/Mihm
Tell me what that team lacks? We've got someone who can guard the Yao's, Duncan's, etc's in Kurt Thomas, we've got 3 at least solid defenders on the perimeter, we've got interior finishing with Bynum, a 2nd guy who you can rely on for 16+ every night, shooting, everything. Our only weaknesses would be a lack of playmaking outside of Kobe and a post presence, but with Farmar/Critt and Drew's development, we could really be hell as soon as next year. |
Kurt Thomas can guard Yao, TD, etc.? Hmm - what's your logic that he can guard them consistently?
When you have Bynum playing starter minutes (35+), he will not have the stamina to play a strong game at the end of the sesason - never mind during the playoffs.
Weaknesses is that there is no consistent mismatches that can be consistently exploited. Along with Marion's production going down because of the style and tempo - along with no Steve Nash to get him his normal freebies, the Lakers would not be a championship team. What LO provides is a consistent mismatch - if LO cannot provide this, only by trading for another similar player that would provide a consistent mismatch would any trade be justified
IMO |
My logic is that KT is a good post defender 
And yeah, what could I have been thinking, Lamar has been doing a fabulous job of exploiting these "consistent mismatches," definitely enough to make up for the defensive upgrade alone Shawn Marion would provide. :roll:
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RCOinCR
Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 250
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| Mitch should start shopping LO NOW! Kobe needs to get back to the wing and wont with LO on this team. I like the move to get Ariza, hopefully his D is as good as advertized because im tired of seing us get killed by oposing teams SF's. |
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oldschool32
Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 20032
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | | No energy and intensity ... no D. They came out flat in the second half and got flattened. That's where we really lost the game. |
Yep. I would have love to have seen a line-up of Farmar/Kobe/Ariza/Ronny/Bynum out there late in the second half... heck, put Kobe at the 3 and put Fisher at the 2 if Fish remained hot on O. Those line-ups wouldn't have lost this game for us. If we're getting burnt on D, I have no clue why Luke or Vlad would be in the game. Farmar would have at least brought more energy.
One last thought. We didn't lose this game because of Bynum, not even close, but I have noticed a substantial drop in activity level after he plays his first 10 minutes or so. He tends to play great in 1st quarters and as the game goes on, he gets tired and coincidingly becomes more lost on D (because his physical exhaustion also translates to mental exhaustion). |
I have no clue why Phil plays him for almost 11-12 minute stretches and then looks puzzled when he is burned out. I hope no one questions him when he hits another wall midway through this season. |
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Klone_dd
Star Player
Joined: 11 Mar 2002
Posts: 7330
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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Whoa! The curse of Brian Cook. Lakers, since the trade, are 0-3.
LA wins 4 in a row, now loses 3 in a row. Typical of a young team. I hope they grow out of it soon.
Aside from the Celts game, the Lakers led for about 3 quarters of the other two games, so something definitely is not right. It may have to do with LO still not being in game shape, because Kobe usually sits to start the 4th, and it would be up to LO to maintain the flow. Also, could be that with Kwame out, Bynum's not anchoring the 2nd unit.
It's up to Phil to figure these things out. That's why he gets paid the mega-big bucks. |
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A Mad Chinaman
Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6157
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| D Nice wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | D Nice wrote: | We could get a consistent #2, plug our defensive holes, and get some big man depth. All it takes is Odom for Marion and Brown/2nd Round Picks for K. Thomas.
PG: Farmar/Fisher/Crittenton
SG: Kobe/Ariza/Sasha
SF: Marion/Walton/Carl
PF: Turiaf/Thomas/Vlad
Cc: Bynum/Mihm
Tell me what that team lacks? We've got someone who can guard the Yao's, Duncan's, etc's in Kurt Thomas, we've got 3 at least solid defenders on the perimeter, we've got interior finishing with Bynum, a 2nd guy who you can rely on for 16+ every night, shooting, everything. Our only weaknesses would be a lack of playmaking outside of Kobe and a post presence, but with Farmar/Critt and Drew's development, we could really be hell as soon as next year. |
Kurt Thomas can guard Yao, TD, etc.? Hmm - what's your logic that he can guard them consistently?
When you have Bynum playing starter minutes (35+), he will not have the stamina to play a strong game at the end of the sesason - never mind during the playoffs.
Weaknesses is that there is no consistent mismatches that can be consistently exploited. Along with Marion's production going down because of the style and tempo - along with no Steve Nash to get him his normal freebies, the Lakers would not be a championship team. What LO provides is a consistent mismatch - if LO cannot provide this, only by trading for another similar player that would provide a consistent mismatch would any trade be justified IMO |
My logic is that KT is a good post defender And yeah, what could I have been thinking, Lamar has been doing a fabulous job of exploiting these "consistent mismatches," definitely enough to make up for the defensive upgrade alone Shawn Marion would provide. |
Your statement that Kurt Thomas can guard Yao, TD and others is what in question - most people will agree that Kwame is MUCH BETTER at defending Yao/TD/KG/Rasheed/etc. Regarding Mismatches - at least the possibility/potential of mismatches always exists with LO (of course, the question is to consistently take advantage of it). With your suggestions, there are no consistent possibilities and Marion's advantages is in a "speed game" that exists totally with the Suns' system and Steve Nash - which doesn't exist with the Lakers. |
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DancingBarry
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Joined: 07 Sep 2001
Posts: 40207
Location: O.C.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. EiGhTy-OnE wrote: | | it all goes back to the Phoenix game when D'antoni was pissed and Phil said he looks for ways to speed the game up. i use to think that Phil didnt call timeouts because he wanted to let the players figure out a way to dig themselves out but the real reason is that he doesnt want to slow the game down, because he cant wait to get his replaced hip off of his extra comfy chair and go home. |
Phil is not trying to get the game over with. That Phoenix game was a butt kicking. He said that was a mercy kill to get that game done quickly at that point. That's two entirely different situations.
He doesn't take timeouts for the reason he said he doesn't -- that he wants them to learn. He's done this for many, many years.
The question is whether this is a good strategy with a young team. I don't think it's very effective. Sometimes they are just lost and need someone to drop a little knowledge on them...or yell at them for their lack of effort. |
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LarryCoon
Site Staff
Joined: 11 Aug 2002
Posts: 11266
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: NETS -at- LAKERS - 11/25 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings |
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| DancingBarry wrote: | | Phil -- -- He said he needs to talk to Dr. Buss about his 2-year $24 million extension that is on the table before making his thoughts known publically. Come on? Two year, $24 mil? Is he really contemplating anything? I'm curious about what that conversation goes like. Does he ask for a more veteran ball club? A certain move made? What?... |
I interpreted that as he's made his decision, but needs to sit down with Buss about it before commenting publicly. |
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KOBE 2.0
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Posts: 15287
Location: Los Angeles, California
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| So he's made a decision but wants to get the final word about what we're planning to do to reshape the roster? or is the meeting gonna be about going to Manhattan with Luc Longly? |
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DancingBarry
Editor-in-Chief
Joined: 07 Sep 2001
Posts: 40207
Location: O.C.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | That is the biggest problem with this team. They do not find the highest percentage shot for the best scorers on the team. |
Hoop IQ. They definitely struggle with it at times. Last night, though, I thought it was the lack of energy and intensity that bit them. They were sleepwalking in the third quarter. |
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DancingBarry
Editor-in-Chief
Joined: 07 Sep 2001
Posts: 40207
Location: O.C.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: NETS -at- LAKERS - 11/25 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings |
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| LarryCoon wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | | Phil -- -- He said he needs to talk to Dr. Buss about his 2-year $24 million extension that is on the table before making his thoughts known publically. Come on? Two year, $24 mil? Is he really contemplating anything? I'm curious about what that conversation goes like. Does he ask for a more veteran ball club? A certain move made? What?... |
I interpreted that as he's made his decision, but needs to sit down with Buss about it before commenting publicly. |
Perhaps. ALthough the simplest answer rarely seems like the fit with Phil. |
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hi_ma
Star Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 7952
Location: watching Kobe /Pau duo.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Without Odom handling the ball now, he has noway of getting the ball in scoring position, unless a teammate looks for him.
Odom played the right way last night, he was not a problem. |
Huh? So now his excuse is he doesnt get the ball in the right place. When he had the ball in his hands he never got it into the right place either.
He played the right way??? Wha?? How many RB's? How many asst. to TO's. All hustle stats
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Mr. EiGhTy-OnE
Star Player
Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 8272
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| DancingBarry wrote: | | Mr. EiGhTy-OnE wrote: | | it all goes back to the Phoenix game when D'antoni was pissed and Phil said he looks for ways to speed the game up. i use to think that Phil didnt call timeouts because he wanted to let the players figure out a way to dig themselves out but the real reason is that he doesnt want to slow the game down, because he cant wait to get his replaced hip off of his extra comfy chair and go home. |
Phil is not trying to get the game over with. That Phoenix game was a butt kicking. He said that was a mercy kill to get that game done quickly at that point. That's two entirely different situations.
He doesn't take timeouts for the reason he said he doesn't -- that he wants them to learn. He's done this for many, many years.
The question is whether this is a good strategy with a young team. I don't think it's very effective. Sometimes they are just lost and need someone to drop a little knowledge on them...or yell at them for their lack of effort. |
DB-
i completely understand that it was 2 different situations. in phx Phil was trying to get the mandatory T.O. out of the way. Historically, Phil sits on his timeouts, when this young team needs guidance. The Zen is not working. As annoying as he is, I would welcome a high energy guy like D'Antoni (not him though)to light a fire under the Lakers. Look at Phil's demeanor on the bench sometimes though, he looks disinterested and bored at times. Like you said in the past, Lamar needs someone to hold his hand. maybe call a timeout just to give L.O. a quick reminder of something and keep his head in it. I was partly exaggerating but I firmly believe that one of Phil's sole purposes is to get the game over with as fast as he can. Not that he would purposely jeopardize a loss, but sometimes when you play with fire, you burn. Then instead of accepting part of the blame for the loss, he's cracking jokes with the media and pretending to leave the podium early. Like I said, he can't wait to get home and watch Dexter with Billy Mac on tivo.
what a difference a week makes
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"When (Kobe) gets you on life support, he won't give you mouth to mouth. HE PULLS THE PLUG." -stu |
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DancingBarry
Editor-in-Chief
Joined: 07 Sep 2001
Posts: 40207
Location: O.C.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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I just don't buy it... the part about Phil wanting to get home early. But I do agree with you about the need to be proactive with certain individuals.
Personally, I wish he'd have a fiery defensive coach, who was the high energy guy or the one who fired up the team with the battle cries. |
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VujacicFan
Star Player
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 6073
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| At least this is further proof that Sasha is cold-blooded. |
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Muad'Dib
Star Player
Joined: 19 Sep 2004
Posts: 3903
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| VujacicFan wrote: | | At least this is further proof that Sasha is cold-blooded. |
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pawn
Starting Rotation
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 729
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Muad'Dib wrote: | | VujacicFan wrote: | | At least this is further proof that Sasha is cold-blooded. |
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I'm convinced this is actually Sasha himself or his agent posting this stuff. I don't see how anyone else could make it to the submit button before completely breaking down in sobbing hysterics..  |
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SweetP
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 6054
Location: My own little piece of reality
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| VujacicFan wrote: | | At least this is further proof that Sasha is cold-blooded. |
As in reptilian?
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“There is always light if only we're brave enough to see it, if only we're brave enough to be it.” --Amanda Gorman |
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D Nice
Star Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 1933
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | D Nice wrote: | We could get a consistent #2, plug our defensive holes, and get some big man depth. All it takes is Odom for Marion and Brown/2nd Round Picks for K. Thomas.
PG: Farmar/Fisher/Crittenton
SG: Kobe/Ariza/Sasha
SF: Marion/Walton/Carl
PF: Turiaf/Thomas/Vlad
Cc: Bynum/Mihm
Tell me what that team lacks? We've got someone who can guard the Yao's, Duncan's, etc's in Kurt Thomas, we've got 3 at least solid defenders on the perimeter, we've got interior finishing with Bynum, a 2nd guy who you can rely on for 16+ every night, shooting, everything. Our only weaknesses would be a lack of playmaking outside of Kobe and a post presence, but with Farmar/Critt and Drew's development, we could really be hell as soon as next year. |
Kurt Thomas can guard Yao, TD, etc.? Hmm - what's your logic that he can guard them consistently?
When you have Bynum playing starter minutes (35+), he will not have the stamina to play a strong game at the end of the sesason - never mind during the playoffs.
Weaknesses is that there is no consistent mismatches that can be consistently exploited. Along with Marion's production going down because of the style and tempo - along with no Steve Nash to get him his normal freebies, the Lakers would not be a championship team. What LO provides is a consistent mismatch - if LO cannot provide this, only by trading for another similar player that would provide a consistent mismatch would any trade be justified
IMO |
Stop overrating Kwame. Yes, he is a better defender, but no, not by some great margin. Kurt Thomas is still a very solid post defender, just ask Tim Duncan..
As for Marion not being a mismatch, how did he put up (consistently) in college, with Kidd, AND with Marbury. Obviously it wasn't just Nash at all. He can get his own shot off a garbage play or if the defender is forced to run at him and make a decision (which should often be the case in the triangle). And his defense takes us to another level on that end.
It really is very cut and dry. |
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A Mad Chinaman
Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6157
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| DancingBarry wrote: | | He doesn't take timeouts for the reason he said he doesn't -- that he wants them to learn. He's done this for many, many years. The question is whether this is a good strategy with a young team. I don't think it's very effective. Sometimes they are just lost and need someone to drop a little knowledge on them...or yell at them for their lack of effort. |
With this early season game and the large improvement of Farmar, it could also be an excellent opportunity for them to learn - especially since there were no rookies on the court. It appears that PJ has the confidence that they will be in the playoffs - just where is unknown - and it's never too early for the players (Jordan, Luke, Vlad, Bynum, Sasha, etc.) to start learning while on the court. |
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