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Michlake
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Joined: 14 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| targetman wrote: | | I really didn't understand all the playing time for Vlad Rad. This was the first game of the road trip where he even scored a point and his defense is nothing to write home about, so why not a little more Tariza, a little less VladRad? |
because Ariza does things that Phil doesn't like. For example, he plays defense, gets offensive rebounds and makes great cuts in the offense. Phil hates it when players do these things. |
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RYZ
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Joined: 02 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: LAKERS -at- KNICKS - 12/23 - Thoughts and :-)) Ratings |
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Thanks, DB.
| Quote: | | Meanwhile, we had no answer for Jamal Crawford, who scored 30 of his 31 points in the second half. |
I disagree. We had an answer named Ariza sitting on the bench, the same place you'll always find him when an opposing perimeter player gets hot.
Phil --  --
Perfect desciption. His insertion of J. Crit was weird even by Phil's standards; and sitting there like a fan watching Crawford go from ice cube to firestorm over the course of minutes darn near cost them the game. |
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mirak
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 5238
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: LAKERS -at- KNICKS - 12/23 - Thoughts and :-)) Ratings |
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| RYZ wrote: | Thanks, DB.
| Quote: | | Meanwhile, we had no answer for Jamal Crawford, who scored 30 of his 31 points in the second half. |
I disagree. We had an answer named Ariza sitting on the bench, the same place you'll always find him when an opposing perimeter player gets hot.
Phil -- --
Perfect desciption. His insertion of J. Crit was weird even by Phil's standards; and sitting there like a fan watching Crawford go from ice cube to firestorm over the course of minutes darn near cost them the game. |
I think the insertion of J. Critt and Fisher was more a commentary on the play of Farmar and Sasha than anything else. Missing shots down the stretch, failure to get the ball into the post, poor defense...I think PJ was sending a message to Farmar and Sasha. Critt didn't play particularly well, but I think the point was made. Farmar kind of redeemed himself at the end. |
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Sage_10
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Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 6668
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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Well, at least they won.
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"You Must Be Willing To Give Up That Which Can Be Lost In Order To Gain That Which Cannot Be Lost." - FORTUNE COOKIE |
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limchrc
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 11477
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Still a nice win, even if our youth shows. Hope we can get a big win against Suns again. |
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A Mad Chinaman
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| DancingBarry wrote: | | KOBE 2.0 wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | | I would say a youth thing...but Kobe led the charge in playing around with the Knicks. |
I have seen the Spurs blow leads and other veteran teams plenty of times, should the youth excuse be taken upon there lack of pulling teams away? teams always have a problem playing perfect when a team is leading big rather its a veteran team or young. so the youth excuse doesn't justify anything. |
Every team will blow leads...even the Spurs. But teams with veteran impact players will take care of business more than young guys who are yet to be consistent impact players.
Our young guys are inconsistent. When they get to consistent impact level, I think you will see us hold leads better. Right now you've got Kobe...and that's it as far as consitent impact production. And today, Kobe did a poor job floor generalling the team, despite his good numbers. |
As always, an informative and precise breakdown.
Last year, the Lakers probably would have lost this game. This year, they are learning not to lose games to teams they should win - even if they were leading by 27 points.
An experienced PG would help - question, would a JKidd help since team would sag off of him like they did with Ariza. Considering that during the playoffs, fastbreaks would be held to a minimum - would JKidd help win a ring? If a Nash can't yet do it (I think that Nash is better than JKidd - of course, this is splitting hairs between great PGs), why would the Lakers give up a tangible part of their future for somebody who would bring a ring? |
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Magics80sLakersGOAT
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Joined: 20 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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Congrats, Mr. EIC!
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| limchrc wrote: | | Still a nice win, even if our youth shows. Hope we can get a big win against Suns again. |
That could happen, the Suns still don't look quite right to me.
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KOBE 2.0
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Joined: 14 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone remember how many times the 03-04 team blew big leads? it was countless of times.
what was the excuse then? drama?  |
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Vadorojo
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Joined: 17 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:12 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the recap, DB!
Although I would have liked to see a 4-0 road trip, I'm still proud of our young team for pulling out 3-1. Hopefully we can gain some experience and confidence in the road heading into the dreaded February stretch. |
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yanyon
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Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 1424
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| Michlake wrote: | | targetman wrote: | | I really didn't understand all the playing time for Vlad Rad. This was the first game of the road trip where he even scored a point and his defense is nothing to write home about, so why not a little more Tariza, a little less VladRad? |
because Ariza does things that Phil doesn't like. For example, he plays defense, gets offensive rebounds and makes great cuts in the offense. Phil hates it when players do these things. |
yup thats true... hahahaha that was quite hilarious. |
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yanyon
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Joined: 06 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | | KOBE 2.0 wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | | I would say a youth thing...but Kobe led the charge in playing around with the Knicks. |
I have seen the Spurs blow leads and other veteran teams plenty of times, should the youth excuse be taken upon there lack of pulling teams away? teams always have a problem playing perfect when a team is leading big rather its a veteran team or young. so the youth excuse doesn't justify anything. |
Every team will blow leads...even the Spurs. But teams with veteran impact players will take care of business more than young guys who are yet to be consistent impact players.
Our young guys are inconsistent. When they get to consistent impact level, I think you will see us hold leads better. Right now you've got Kobe...and that's it as far as consitent impact production. And today, Kobe did a poor job floor generalling the team, despite his good numbers. |
As always, an informative and precise breakdown.
Last year, the Lakers probably would have lost this game. This year, they are learning not to lose games to teams they should win - even if they were leading by 27 points.
An experienced PG would help - question, would a JKidd help since team would sag off of him like they did with Ariza. Considering that during the playoffs, fastbreaks would be held to a minimum - would JKidd help win a ring? If a Nash can't yet do it (I think that Nash is better than JKidd - of course, this is splitting hairs between great PGs), why would the Lakers give up a tangible part of their future for somebody who would bring a ring? |
i agree, giving away our young talented players and whatever pieces for jkidd wont give you an instant ring. hes already surrounded by 2 premiere nba stars and he still cant get them to the finals... our guys will develop into something special just like AB is right now. give them alittle more time and things will come out better. farmar is doing a good job, he can do better but hes worth being on the team. jcritt will have his chance aswell so he better be ready. |
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A Mad Chinaman
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6180
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| Vadorojo wrote: | | Although I would have liked to see a 4-0 road trip, I'm still proud of our young team for pulling out 3-1. Hopefully we can gain some experience and confidence in the road heading into the dreaded February stretch. |
Most people would have siad that a 3-1 record on this road trip would have been very good. Even the Spurs, Suns, Mavs and the Magic have gone through unexpected losses. As the L.A. Times have noted - the powerhouse teams in the Western Conference have flatten out with the Jazz/Rockets/Spurs (understandable with their injuries)/Mavs/Suns with unexpected records |
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Cardom
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Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 12551
Location: UCLA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| yanyon wrote: | | Michlake wrote: | | targetman wrote: | | I really didn't understand all the playing time for Vlad Rad. This was the first game of the road trip where he even scored a point and his defense is nothing to write home about, so why not a little more Tariza, a little less VladRad? |
because Ariza does things that Phil doesn't like. For example, he plays defense, gets offensive rebounds and makes great cuts in the offense. Phil hates it when players do these things. |
yup thats true... hahahaha that was quite hilarious. |
Ariza may be one of the best players on the team simply because of the fact he goes to the basket. |
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Cardom
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Al-Mbarak8
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Joined: 01 Oct 2007
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Location: Lebanon
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:05 am Post subject: |
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Great recap , Chief DB!
Great game , got to watch it @ 7pm my time , first game around this time for allmost a year , last one was last year's Suns vs Lakers game during the regular season..
Sad that they didn't pass the ball to bynum much , but a win is a win..
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LG.net Lurker for 3 years , finally got my account approved..
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20,000
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| DancingBarry wrote: | | encina1 wrote: | Why can't this team hold leads?
Is it a youth thing?
A coaching problem? |
I would say a youth thing...but Kobe led the charge in playing around with the Knicks. |
I forgot to add another option here: Chris Rock and Spike Lee. There was one sequence where Spike pointed to a spot on the court, and a few minutes later Kobe took a long three from there totally outside of the flow of the offense. Kobe showing off for Spike and Rock led to the Knicks' run. Maybe Jamal was upset by this showboating of Kobe or he actually is a pro who wanted to win the game, but I am sure Kobe's game with Spike helped fuel the run.
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Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying...'I will try again tomorrow.' |
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Texas_Pete
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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Location: Somewhere watching a Laker game
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| encina1 wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | | encina1 wrote: | Why can't this team hold leads?
Is it a youth thing?
A coaching problem? |
I would say a youth thing...but Kobe led the charge in playing around with the Knicks. |
I forgot to add another option here: Chris Rock and Spike Lee. There was one sequence where Spike pointed to a spot on the court, and a few minutes later Kobe took a long three from there totally outside of the flow of the offense. Kobe showing off for Spike and Rock led to the Knicks' run. Maybe Jamal was upset by this showboating of Kobe or he actually is a pro who wanted to win the game, but I am sure Kobe's game with Spike helped fuel the run. |
I saw that hi lite. I hope PJ fines Kobe for that bull (bleep). This team ain't good enough for him to do that (bleep). It almost cost us a really bad lost after being up 25 points. |
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Tanlentueux
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Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| thanks for the recap DB. good work as usual!!!!! |
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prisma8slg
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 4664
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:27 am Post subject: Re: LAKERS -at- KNICKS - 12/23 - Thoughts and :-)) Ratings |
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thanks DB! Happy Holidays to you and Mrs. DB 
| mirak wrote: | | RYZ wrote: | Thanks, DB.
| Quote: | | Meanwhile, we had no answer for Jamal Crawford, who scored 30 of his 31 points in the second half. |
I disagree. We had an answer named Ariza sitting on the bench, the same place you'll always find him when an opposing perimeter player gets hot.
Phil -- --
Perfect desciption. His insertion of J. Crit was weird even by Phil's standards; and sitting there like a fan watching Crawford go from ice cube to firestorm over the course of minutes darn near cost them the game. |
I think the insertion of J. Critt and Fisher was more a commentary on the play of Farmar and Sasha than anything else. Missing shots down the stretch, failure to get the ball into the post, poor defense...I think PJ was sending a message to Farmar and Sasha. Critt didn't play particularly well, but I think the point was made. Farmar kind of redeemed himself at the end. |
wasn't critt put in the game after Farmar threw the ball out of bounds? it was a CLOSE game and Phil threw Critt in there cold to make a point to Farmar.
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"I define success by championships, by winning..." Kobe Bryant
"I've seen it all. Sasha dunked on somebody," Kobe Bryant said. "I'm ready to retire now." |
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PopcornMachine
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Joined: 19 Apr 2001
Posts: 10566
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Texas_Pete wrote: | | encina1 wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | | encina1 wrote: | Why can't this team hold leads?
Is it a youth thing?
A coaching problem? |
I would say a youth thing...but Kobe led the charge in playing around with the Knicks. |
I forgot to add another option here: Chris Rock and Spike Lee. There was one sequence where Spike pointed to a spot on the court, and a few minutes later Kobe took a long three from there totally outside of the flow of the offense. Kobe showing off for Spike and Rock led to the Knicks' run. Maybe Jamal was upset by this showboating of Kobe or he actually is a pro who wanted to win the game, but I am sure Kobe's game with Spike helped fuel the run. |
I saw that hi lite. I hope PJ fines Kobe for that bull (bleep). This team ain't good enough for him to do that (bleep). It almost cost us a really bad lost after being up 25 points. |
Don't you know? Kobe's gotta be the STAR!
It's more important for him to throw up pointlessly long threes, try to make incredibly difficult shots so he'll get on Sports Center, and mingle with celebrities, than it is to keep his mind on the game and do what is good for the team.
It has become rather obvious. |
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targetman
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Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 5503
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| encina1 wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | | encina1 wrote: | Why can't this team hold leads?
Is it a youth thing?
A coaching problem? |
I would say a youth thing...but Kobe led the charge in playing around with the Knicks. |
I forgot to add another option here: Chris Rock and Spike Lee. There was one sequence where Spike pointed to a spot on the court, and a few minutes later Kobe took a long three from there totally outside of the flow of the offense. Kobe showing off for Spike and Rock led to the Knicks' run. Maybe Jamal was upset by this showboating of Kobe or he actually is a pro who wanted to win the game, but I am sure Kobe's game with Spike helped fuel the run. |
Yes, poor decision making by Kobe leads to poor decision making by all our other players, whether he is on the court or not. As a matter of fact, I understand that those billions of dollars that we sent to the Pakistanis came shortly after Kobe attempted an ill-advised three early in the shot clock.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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Ofcourse Bryant isn't the reason Farmar played the way he did, but had Bryant been running the offense better, which he is capable of better than most of these guys with his experience in running the O, the other guys in the starting 5 would have been better prepared to contribute and the Knicks wouldn't have been able to get back into it. It's momentum. You don't wanna give teams chances to comeback and win.
It's simple. You play like 1 on 1 basketball for long stretches and totally disrupt the flow of the offense. How are the other 4 guys going to get involved or play their games if that happens?
That was basically the 3rd qtr, most of it.
The 2nd unit? That is all on Sasha, Farmar etc. They stank it up.
Odom's foul trouble and bad 2nd half was on him.
What seems to be the main problem with the 1st unit is the lack of ability to continually run the system. Is that only on Kobe? Noway. Odom is a big culprit as are other guys on the 1st unit. However the biggest breaker off the offense is Kobe on the 1st unit. For some reason, he just decides "Screw playing this way, let me get mine". Jordan had the same mentality, but for some, it's gotten to the point where we are just fed up with him constantly doing that, and then calling out teammates for not "playing for championships"
Part of "playing for championships" is playing team ball and playing within the system. Kobe did that in the 3 peat in large part because Phil forced him to or he would sit on the bench.
That's all I ask of Kobe. Just play more within the system and stop taking bad shots. Some games those shots go in, most games they won't. Especially in the playoffs.
And again, It's not a big deal that he played like that yesterday, moreso when he plays like that in losses or close games ... that's when some are getting frustrated.
Kobe playing within the system and smart - Lakers would be 2 wins better in the W column IMO. Simply because the 1st unit would be winning more games in the 4th, instead of blowing leads in the 4th like they have been.
Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Magics80sLakersGOAT
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Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 2017
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| targetman wrote: | | encina1 wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | | encina1 wrote: | Why can't this team hold leads?
Is it a youth thing?
A coaching problem? |
I would say a youth thing...but Kobe led the charge in playing around with the Knicks. |
I forgot to add another option here: Chris Rock and Spike Lee. There was one sequence where Spike pointed to a spot on the court, and a few minutes later Kobe took a long three from there totally outside of the flow of the offense. Kobe showing off for Spike and Rock led to the Knicks' run. Maybe Jamal was upset by this showboating of Kobe or he actually is a pro who wanted to win the game, but I am sure Kobe's game with Spike helped fuel the run. |
Yes, poor decision making by Kobe leads to poor decision making by all our other players, whether he is on the court or not. As a matter of fact, I understand that those billions of dollars that we sent to the Pakistanis came shortly after Kobe attempted an ill-advised three early in the shot clock. |
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