LAKERS -at- SPURS - 1/23 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings
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prisma8slg
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:51 am    Post subject:

thanks DB.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:11 am    Post subject:

I think I will stay completely away from game threads from now on and just read your recaps. Somehow you make horrific losses like this not seem so bad.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:58 am    Post subject:

Thanks, DB.

You know, one of the San Antonio papers said that second-half was the best half the Spurs have played all season. So when you couple that with one of our worst quarters of the season, I don't feel so bad. We played them terrifically the first half, so we have something to build on if we meet them in the playoffs.
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Mr. EiGhTy-OnE
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:25 am    Post subject:

-first Collison, then Diaw, now Udoka, whos next?
-the whole "let them play through this" dry spell is getting very old
-phil really cost us this game in the 3rd
-Kobe couldnt get a call to save his life, so he started shooting Js in the 3rd and unfortunately he was forcing it
-Lamar needs to learn to keep his cool (pushes finley, whacks parker)
-what does phil have against Turiaf?
-Im ok with losing to the spurs, however im not ok with how we lost. it was like the first N.O. game(WIDE OPEN 3s) this team never learns
-why is luke even playing? phil should move kobe to SF and have fish/farmar start. or move LO to the 3 and start Turiaf at PF.
-we needed to take advantage of PHX losing to Minny
-other than the non calls kobe got, 2 calls i was pissed about was Kwames first foul on the rebound and Lamars charge/flop. neither one should have been called.
-kwame was on his way to a bounce back game in the 1st qtr and then the wheels fell off
-IMO, why do we never let teams try to match up with us? we spend too much time trying to match up with the other team
-the next time this team takes advantage of a mismatch will be the first
-we need to make a conscience effort to get D-fish going. the games we lose, he has a bad game.



BEAT DALLAS!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:08 am    Post subject:

Mr. EiGhTy-OnE wrote:
-first Collison, then Diaw, now Udoka, whos next?
-the whole "let them play through this" dry spell is getting very old
-phil really cost us this game in the 3rd
-Kobe couldnt get a call to save his life, so he started shooting Js in the 3rd and unfortunately he was forcing it
-Lamar needs to learn to keep his cool (pushes finley, whacks parker)
-what does phil have against Turiaf?
-Im ok with losing to the spurs, however im not ok with how we lost. it was like the first N.O. game(WIDE OPEN 3s) this team never learns
-why is luke even playing? phil should move kobe to SF and have fish/farmar start. or move LO to the 3 and start Turiaf at PF.
-we needed to take advantage of PHX losing to Minny
-other than the non calls kobe got, 2 calls i was pissed about was Kwames first foul on the rebound and Lamars charge/flop. neither one should have been called.
-kwame was on his way to a bounce back game in the 1st qtr and then the wheels fell off
-IMO, why do we never let teams try to match up with us? we spend too much time trying to match up with the other team
-the next time this team takes advantage of a mismatch will be the first
-we need to make a conscience effort to get D-fish going. the games we lose, he has a bad game.



BEAT DALLAS!
I agree with every single point you made. Especially about taking advantage of PHX losing to the TWolves. I always enjoy your posts, MrEightyOne! btw did LO get a flagrant call on that foul on Parker? On the replay it looked like it was just a hard foul to keep him from getting the shot off, but I started fast-forwarding the game again and wasn't sure what the call was. I love DVR when we're playing like crap! It lessens the pain!
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Crazy Like Ron Artest
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:10 am    Post subject:

Quote:
we need to make a conscience effort to get D-fish going. the games we lose, he has a bad game.



Very true.
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CorkyTomjanovich
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:22 am    Post subject:

Biggest factors-

Phil refusing to use timeouts in the 2nd half to slow momentum

Phil not playing Turiaf in the 3rd

The Spurs not doubling Kobe in the 2nd half so Kobe couldn't continue to pick them apart with his passing

The Spurs being allowed to play with a different set of rules. Nobody should say one thing about Kobe's turnovers. At least 5 of those were obvious fouls or incorrect calls.


Last edited by CorkyTomjanovich on Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:26 am    Post subject:

AV wrote:
Actually I think Kobe really took us out of the game in the 3rd right from the beginning, he really moved away from what was working, and went for his own shot, which wasn't working, when he tried to pull back on that the team had already stagnated on offense and gone cold...great first half by kobe lousy 3rd....also, not usually one to complain about the refs, but the Lakers got pretty jobbed in the second half.....good game tape for the Lakers and paticular for Kobe to watch, definately a tale of two halves


Good game for you to watch again so you can understand things a little better. The Spurs were doubling Kobe in the 1st half, he was finding the open man and picking them apart. In the 2nd half they played him straight up for the most part. You don't need to double Kobe when you can just foul him constantly and get away with it.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:29 am    Post subject:

Thanks DB. Stellar as always.

I agree with everyone on the third quarter idiocy on Phil's part. Anyone could see that a time out was needed, and that using a different line up might have worked. Maybe Phil was thinking from a match up standpoint, and fine, then take the quick time out and deal with what's wrong - get your guys going again. Grrrrrrrr........

On a good note, when the Lakers are on I think they can compete with anyone. The first half was a joy to watch. Learning to finish, now there's where they need some experience. I don't know how things will work out, but IMHO they would be able to contend for the WCF.

I'm counting the days until Bynum returns, but meanwhile, I'll stand by these guys.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:51 am    Post subject:

KOBE 2.0 wrote:
Who is Udoka and why did he play like a all-star?

they brought hium in to be the next bruce bowen.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:57 am    Post subject:

LongtimeLakerLover wrote:
Thanks DB. Stellar as always.

I agree with everyone on the third quarter idiocy on Phil's part. Anyone could see that a time out was needed, and that using a different line up might have worked. Maybe Phil was thinking from a match up standpoint, and fine, then take the quick time out and deal with what's wrong - get your guys going again. Grrrrrrrr........

On a good note, when the Lakers are on I think they can compete with anyone. The first half was a joy to watch. Learning to finish, now there's where they need some experience. I don't know how things will work out, but IMHO they would be able to contend for the WCF.

I'm counting the days until Bynum returns, but meanwhile, I'll stand by these guys.

did people not watch the game.

he called that time out. when the lead was cut to 4, he called a time and yelled at the guys.
what more do you want him to do in that time out. i'm sure he told them they were playing like crap and they needed to go back to what they were doing. there is a limit to what a coach can do, if the players don't execute.
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AV
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:31 am    Post subject:

Don't really need to watch the game again, I saw just fine the first time. Kobe DID force the issue at the beginning of the second half and he DID slow down the ball movement and he DID take horrible shots with time running out because he put himself in that situation. Of course he got jobbed on some calls, but rather than pentetrating and getting stuck holding the ball and then forcing the shot he should have worked some more ball movement in. Sure everyone else was pretty flat footed, which got worse with each following possession....but again Kobe at the beginning was looking to do more one on one and I think that definately contributed to stalling out the O, wasn't the only reason, but was definately a reason
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Mr. EiGhTy-OnE
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:40 am    Post subject:

Arizona wrote:
Mr. EiGhTy-OnE wrote:
-first Collison, then Diaw, now Udoka, whos next?
-the whole "let them play through this" dry spell is getting very old
-phil really cost us this game in the 3rd
-Kobe couldnt get a call to save his life, so he started shooting Js in the 3rd and unfortunately he was forcing it
-Lamar needs to learn to keep his cool (pushes finley, whacks parker)
-what does phil have against Turiaf?
-Im ok with losing to the spurs, however im not ok with how we lost. it was like the first N.O. game(WIDE OPEN 3s) this team never learns
-why is luke even playing? phil should move kobe to SF and have fish/farmar start. or move LO to the 3 and start Turiaf at PF.
-we needed to take advantage of PHX losing to Minny
-other than the non calls kobe got, 2 calls i was pissed about was Kwames first foul on the rebound and Lamars charge/flop. neither one should have been called.
-kwame was on his way to a bounce back game in the 1st qtr and then the wheels fell off
-IMO, why do we never let teams try to match up with us? we spend too much time trying to match up with the other team
-the next time this team takes advantage of a mismatch will be the first
-we need to make a conscience effort to get D-fish going. the games we lose, he has a bad game.



BEAT DALLAS!
I agree with every single point you made. Especially about taking advantage of PHX losing to the TWolves. I always enjoy your posts, MrEightyOne! btw did LO get a flagrant call on that foul on Parker? On the replay it looked like it was just a hard foul to keep him from getting the shot off, but I started fast-forwarding the game again and wasn't sure what the call was. I love DVR when we're playing like crap! It lessens the pain!


it was a regular personal foul (no flagrant) i was glad to see Lamar go over and shake TP's hand after the game to show he didnt mean anything by it.
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Mr. EiGhTy-OnE
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:42 am    Post subject:

10scott10 wrote:
KOBE 2.0 wrote:
Who is Udoka and why did he play like a all-star?

they brought hium in to be the next bruce bowen.


speaking of..... Bowen really seems to be slowing down with age and doesn't seem to be anything close to the defensive stopper he use to be.
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Mr. EiGhTy-OnE
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:50 am    Post subject:

10scott10 wrote:
LongtimeLakerLover wrote:
Thanks DB. Stellar as always.

I agree with everyone on the third quarter idiocy on Phil's part. Anyone could see that a time out was needed, and that using a different line up might have worked. Maybe Phil was thinking from a match up standpoint, and fine, then take the quick time out and deal with what's wrong - get your guys going again. Grrrrrrrr........

On a good note, when the Lakers are on I think they can compete with anyone. The first half was a joy to watch. Learning to finish, now there's where they need some experience. I don't know how things will work out, but IMHO they would be able to contend for the WCF.

I'm counting the days until Bynum returns, but meanwhile, I'll stand by these guys.

did people not watch the game.

he called that time out. when the lead was cut to 4, he called a time and yelled at the guys.
what more do you want him to do in that time out. i'm sure he told them they were playing like crap and they needed to go back to what they were doing. there is a limit to what a coach can do, if the players don't execute.


well, when it takes 6 minutes and 32 seconds to score a basket, call another timeout! draw something up, make some subs, do something! letting them play through it obviously wasn't working.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:00 am    Post subject:

KOBE 2.0 wrote:
Who is Udoka and why did he play like a all-star?


Sometimes Kobe just doesn't get into guarding players he thinks aren't a real challenge to him. Thus, he plays like a rover and will leave the guy open. Bowen did average 20+ in the previous 2 games, last night it was Udoka. Not saying it was all Kobe, but perhaps the whole team figured that they would double off the SF.

Everything was good for a half. I was listening to the game on the radio while I was stuck in traffic. Then I got home to watch the 2nd half and would've preferred to be stuck in traffic.

Once again, too many players deferring to Kobe. LO and Luke namely. 7 and 3 shots respectively. If you want Kobe playing the team game, then you gotta make plays, take shots that are there, not float around on the perimeter or fail to get post position.

LO's inability to seal smaller players or the rest of the team's inability to get him the ball in the post was really evident. LO seemingly can only get the ball in the post if he dribbles into it, not so much by ball movement or by an entry pass.

Props to Ronny, who really played at a high level, and Sasha, who added a real spark.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:01 am    Post subject:

Sister Golden Hair wrote:
The Spurs are very beatable. With a healthy Drew and a full squad, I think the lakers can definitely take them. If the teams meet in the play-offs, I certainly don't think the Lakers or the coaches fear them. PJ will coach better and not allow the kinds of droughts that occurred to night. The league will send a better crew of refs.

The one thing that grates is how this team still reverst to making the same stupid mistakes when they get down to this team: not getting back to the three-point shooters. Even in the first half, when they were cold, I saw Lamar and a few other close out lazily. The Spurs weren;t hitting. But in the back of my mind I kept thinking: if they don't do a better job, that's going to come back to haunt them.

It's lazy defense, there's no better way to put it. Kobe did it. Lamar did it. Luke did it. For some reason, Kobe awlasys does this against the SPurs -- totally play off his man to "help." The SPurs seems to count on him doing that. It's disappointing that in three years PJ hasn't instilled better defensive fundamentals on his squad.

SGH


The D was bad, especially in the second half. We really miss Ariza and his defensive minded attitude and obviously we miss our anchor in the paint. Without those 2 guys I guess we are just an average defensive team.

A shame that the guys could not get up for playing the spurs!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:21 am    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
KOBE 2.0 wrote:
Who is Udoka and why did he play like a all-star?


You don't remember him from Portland last season? He played great there. Played Kobe well. He'll likely be their new Bowen-type of defender/shooter.


Udoka is a very good ROLE player that Kobe made look like an All-Star in one of the worse games I remember for either #8 or #24...

After winning so many games for us over the years, I'd forget that Kobe lost us this one. That what teams' leaders do - they win a lot of games for you, but sometimes they lose them for you.

Kobe played absolutely horrible second half and had nobody to pick him up in this game.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:26 am    Post subject:

Mr. EiGhTy-OnE wrote:
Arizona wrote:
Mr. EiGhTy-OnE wrote:
-first Collison, then Diaw, now Udoka, whos next?
-the whole "let them play through this" dry spell is getting very old
-phil really cost us this game in the 3rd
-Kobe couldnt get a call to save his life, so he started shooting Js in the 3rd and unfortunately he was forcing it
-Lamar needs to learn to keep his cool (pushes finley, whacks parker)
-what does phil have against Turiaf?
-Im ok with losing to the spurs, however im not ok with how we lost. it was like the first N.O. game(WIDE OPEN 3s) this team never learns
-why is luke even playing? phil should move kobe to SF and have fish/farmar start. or move LO to the 3 and start Turiaf at PF.
-we needed to take advantage of PHX losing to Minny
-other than the non calls kobe got, 2 calls i was pissed about was Kwames first foul on the rebound and Lamars charge/flop. neither one should have been called.
-kwame was on his way to a bounce back game in the 1st qtr and then the wheels fell off
-IMO, why do we never let teams try to match up with us? we spend too much time trying to match up with the other team
-the next time this team takes advantage of a mismatch will be the first
-we need to make a conscience effort to get D-fish going. the games we lose, he has a bad game.



BEAT DALLAS!
I agree with every single point you made. Especially about taking advantage of PHX losing to the TWolves. I always enjoy your posts, MrEightyOne! btw did LO get a flagrant call on that foul on Parker? On the replay it looked like it was just a hard foul to keep him from getting the shot off, but I started fast-forwarding the game again and wasn't sure what the call was. I love DVR when we're playing like crap! It lessens the pain!


it was a regular personal foul (no flagrant) i was glad to see Lamar go over and shake TP's hand after the game to show he didnt mean anything by it.


After watching the game tape I am assessing Manu Ginobili with flagrant foul 2 for "unnatural basketabll move" (flailing his arms) and automatic suspension for 1 game.

Lamar Odom's play on Tony Parker stays as a regular foul.

Best regards,

Stu Jackson,
VP of the Basketball Operations
NBA
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:11 am    Post subject:

Observation: Fisher's shot is dependent on him being squared up with his feet set. When he is shooting off his own dribble, he drifts and the percentage drops.

It's true for most people, but especially guys like Fisher and Walton.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:42 am    Post subject:

Mr. EiGhTy-OnE wrote:
Arizona wrote:
Mr. EiGhTy-OnE wrote:
-first Collison, then Diaw, now Udoka, whos next?
-the whole "let them play through this" dry spell is getting very old
-phil really cost us this game in the 3rd
-Kobe couldnt get a call to save his life, so he started shooting Js in the 3rd and unfortunately he was forcing it
-Lamar needs to learn to keep his cool (pushes finley, whacks parker)
-what does phil have against Turiaf?
-Im ok with losing to the spurs, however im not ok with how we lost. it was like the first N.O. game(WIDE OPEN 3s) this team never learns
-why is luke even playing? phil should move kobe to SF and have fish/farmar start. or move LO to the 3 and start Turiaf at PF.
-we needed to take advantage of PHX losing to Minny
-other than the non calls kobe got, 2 calls i was pissed about was Kwames first foul on the rebound and Lamars charge/flop. neither one should have been called.
-kwame was on his way to a bounce back game in the 1st qtr and then the wheels fell off
-IMO, why do we never let teams try to match up with us? we spend too much time trying to match up with the other team
-the next time this team takes advantage of a mismatch will be the first
-we need to make a conscience effort to get D-fish going. the games we lose, he has a bad game.



BEAT DALLAS!
I agree with every single point you made. Especially about taking advantage of PHX losing to the TWolves. I always enjoy your posts, MrEightyOne! btw did LO get a flagrant call on that foul on Parker? On the replay it looked like it was just a hard foul to keep him from getting the shot off, but I started fast-forwarding the game again and wasn't sure what the call was. I love DVR when we're playing like crap! It lessens the pain!


it was a regular personal foul (no flagrant) i was glad to see Lamar go over and shake TP's hand after the game to show he didnt mean anything by it.
Thx.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:55 pm    Post subject:

golakersgo121 wrote:
Mr. EiGhTy-OnE wrote:
Arizona wrote:
Mr. EiGhTy-OnE wrote:
-first Collison, then Diaw, now Udoka, whos next?
-the whole "let them play through this" dry spell is getting very old
-phil really cost us this game in the 3rd
-Kobe couldnt get a call to save his life, so he started shooting Js in the 3rd and unfortunately he was forcing it
-Lamar needs to learn to keep his cool (pushes finley, whacks parker)
-what does phil have against Turiaf?
-Im ok with losing to the spurs, however im not ok with how we lost. it was like the first N.O. game(WIDE OPEN 3s) this team never learns
-why is luke even playing? phil should move kobe to SF and have fish/farmar start. or move LO to the 3 and start Turiaf at PF.
-we needed to take advantage of PHX losing to Minny
-other than the non calls kobe got, 2 calls i was pissed about was Kwames first foul on the rebound and Lamars charge/flop. neither one should have been called.
-kwame was on his way to a bounce back game in the 1st qtr and then the wheels fell off
-IMO, why do we never let teams try to match up with us? we spend too much time trying to match up with the other team
-the next time this team takes advantage of a mismatch will be the first
-we need to make a conscience effort to get D-fish going. the games we lose, he has a bad game.



BEAT DALLAS!
I agree with every single point you made. Especially about taking advantage of PHX losing to the TWolves. I always enjoy your posts, MrEightyOne! btw did LO get a flagrant call on that foul on Parker? On the replay it looked like it was just a hard foul to keep him from getting the shot off, but I started fast-forwarding the game again and wasn't sure what the call was. I love DVR when we're playing like crap! It lessens the pain!


it was a regular personal foul (no flagrant) i was glad to see Lamar go over and shake TP's hand after the game to show he didnt mean anything by it.


After watching the game tape I am assessing Manu Ginobili with flagrant foul 2 for "unnatural basketabll move" (flailing his arms) and automatic suspension for 1 game.

Lamar Odom's play on Tony Parker stays as a regular foul.

Best regards,

Stu Jackson,
VP of the Basketball Operations
NBA


i forgot about that. im glad joel/stu made the comment that "kobe got suspended" for that. (on manu ironically) i doubt manu get suspended, nor do i want him to. it was an accident, just like kobe's was.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:27 pm    Post subject:

Mr. EiGhTy-OnE wrote:
golakersgo121 wrote:
Mr. EiGhTy-OnE wrote:
Arizona wrote:
Mr. EiGhTy-OnE wrote:
-first Collison, then Diaw, now Udoka, whos next?
-the whole "let them play through this" dry spell is getting very old
-phil really cost us this game in the 3rd
-Kobe couldnt get a call to save his life, so he started shooting Js in the 3rd and unfortunately he was forcing it
-Lamar needs to learn to keep his cool (pushes finley, whacks parker)
-what does phil have against Turiaf?
-Im ok with losing to the spurs, however im not ok with how we lost. it was like the first N.O. game(WIDE OPEN 3s) this team never learns
-why is luke even playing? phil should move kobe to SF and have fish/farmar start. or move LO to the 3 and start Turiaf at PF.
-we needed to take advantage of PHX losing to Minny
-other than the non calls kobe got, 2 calls i was pissed about was Kwames first foul on the rebound and Lamars charge/flop. neither one should have been called.
-kwame was on his way to a bounce back game in the 1st qtr and then the wheels fell off
-IMO, why do we never let teams try to match up with us? we spend too much time trying to match up with the other team
-the next time this team takes advantage of a mismatch will be the first
-we need to make a conscience effort to get D-fish going. the games we lose, he has a bad game.



BEAT DALLAS!
I agree with every single point you made. Especially about taking advantage of PHX losing to the TWolves. I always enjoy your posts, MrEightyOne! btw did LO get a flagrant call on that foul on Parker? On the replay it looked like it was just a hard foul to keep him from getting the shot off, but I started fast-forwarding the game again and wasn't sure what the call was. I love DVR when we're playing like crap! It lessens the pain!


it was a regular personal foul (no flagrant) i was glad to see Lamar go over and shake TP's hand after the game to show he didnt mean anything by it.


After watching the game tape I am assessing Manu Ginobili with flagrant foul 2 for "unnatural basketabll move" (flailing his arms) and automatic suspension for 1 game.

Lamar Odom's play on Tony Parker stays as a regular foul.

Best regards,

Stu Jackson,
VP of the Basketball Operations
NBA


i forgot about that. im glad joel/stu made the comment that "kobe got suspended" for that. (on manu ironically) i doubt manu get suspended, nor do i want him to. it was an accident, just like kobe's was.


I sure HOPE Manu doesn't get suspended.
I would though suspend floppers like Big Ben, almost every Phoenix sun player, our own DFish (as well as Cookie in the past), the same Manu and many, many others for one game if the replay shows they flopped instead of playing defense. It is simply too dangerous for players around them. As a matter of fact, Kwame got injured this season right when Big Ben was "playing dead".

I'd punish every single play like this when there is no intent of play on the ball but rather effort "to take the charge"...
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:55 pm    Post subject:

What can you say about the third and the cold shooting starting with Kobe and on through? ..and once the offense stalls on a young team the defense follows right along, happens to every team in the assoc. so no panic here.

DB- normally agree 100% but I had a problem with Turiaf at the 5 last night. I thought his offense was fine unless of course he is in heavy traffic. Ronny can't finish well under the rim with shot blockers lurking around.

....But, he got eaten alive by Duncan everywhere on the hardwood. Chewed up. All season Ronny struggles at the 5 so it's not just TD. He simply can't play it, not enough vertical, length, or ability to play with his back to the hoop. Does fine at the 4 though. With Kwame stalling on offense we had little choice but to suffer though Ronny at the 5. Oh well. Spurs may seem to struggle this year but at home they are the same old trouble. only four losses...bad news is the Mavs have only three.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:09 pm    Post subject:

_#1_ wrote:
Spurs may seem to struggle this year but at home they are the same old trouble. only four losses...bad news is the Mavs have only three.


they'll be tied with the spurs with 4 home losses after friday night
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