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Texas_Pete Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 12825 Location: Somewhere watching a Laker game
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:42 am Post subject: |
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Thanks DB. Nice win. Now exact some revenge on the Clippers tonight! |
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BigE32 Star Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 8518
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:51 am Post subject: |
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Our tenacity on the defensive end is what stood out to me. Vlad did a nice job of rotating and had some steals as a result. We really have a deep, versatile, athletic team that can attack our opponent in a variety of ways. The key is on the defensive end IMO. If we play D the way we did last night, we're going to be extremely tough. |
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Dr. Laker Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002 Posts: 17121
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:58 am Post subject: |
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BigE32 wrote: | Our tenacity on the defensive end is what stood out to me. Vlad did a nice job of rotating and had some steals as a result. We really have a deep, versatile, athletic team that can attack our opponent in a variety of ways. The key is on the defensive end IMO. If we play D the way we did last night, we're going to be extremely tough. |
+1 _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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Vishnu Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 16558
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:58 am Post subject: |
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Once in a while Vlad becomes Scottie Pippen. Last night was one example. The Hawks game at Staples last year also comes to mind. |
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zride Starting Rotation
Joined: 25 Apr 2008 Posts: 514
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:17 am Post subject: |
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Thanks! |
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TheBigRuski Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2002 Posts: 10043 Location: San Clemente
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: |
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Seems like the blog has some kinks to work out...but, meanwhile...those of you that like to DIGG can digg Dancing Barry's "Thoughts and Ratings" at
http://digg.com/basketball/Opening_Night_Lakers_set_the_tone
Help make LakersGround a huge success in the social networking realm! _________________ [b:7c818fb74e]Lebron who?[/b:7c818fb74e] |
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Klone_dd Star Player
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 Posts: 7330
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:37 am Post subject: |
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Gotta hype the D. Quasi-zone with long armed, 7 ftrs on the prowl, Kobe, Ariza & Vlad disrupting passing lanes. P-land was forced to hoist up 3-balls with little to no inside game and no fast break to speak of. Impressive.
The passing was a little off, but it's to be expected coming out of pre-season. Kobe & Pau already in mid-season form due to their Olympic play. Ariza is becoming the New Age Coop.
I think LO was more aggressive than I can recall on both ends of the floor. Maybe his 6th man status has him valuing his minutes so he's just going to go all out while he's in the game. Both he and the Lakers will be better off for that.
Great line about Sasha, DB |
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Freakout Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 11796 Location: WV
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: |
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I agree with DB but not just about Oden......
Andrew over his short career hasn't faced a lot of centers that are more physical than him and just as big due to the fact that before last season he mainly matched up against second stringers.
Now with him starting, he will learn fast or struggle this season. Yao and Shaq 8 times total this season and hopefully 3 more against Oden.
Those minutes against Greg may have been short last night but it gives Kareem plenty to work with in showing Andrew what he has to change. |
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DancingBarry Editor-in-Chief
Joined: 07 Sep 2001 Posts: 40216 Location: O.C.
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:49 am Post subject: |
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Klone_dd wrote: |
I think LO was more aggressive than I can recall on both ends of the floor. Maybe his 6th man status has him valuing his minutes so he's just going to go all out while he's in the game. Both he and the Lakers will be better off for that.
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I almost wonder if it helps him to get amped up. Watching the game for 6 minutes without being out there. Then he gets in the game with his wheels already rolling. Whereas when he starts, he tries to ease into it. Just speculation. The defensive scheme could help, too, because it demands him to be very active on that end. Either way, he's doing a better job with the start of the season than last year. |
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DancingBarry Editor-in-Chief
Joined: 07 Sep 2001 Posts: 40216 Location: O.C.
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Freakout wrote: |
Now with him starting, he will learn fast or struggle this season. Yao and Shaq 8 times total this season and hopefully 3 more against Oden.
Those minutes against Greg may have been short last night but it gives Kareem plenty to work with in showing Andrew what he has to change. |
The carrot is in front of him with the contract, but I think Bynum has the pride in himself that these guys like Oden, Shaq and Yao will make him better. As long as he has rivals like that, he'll bust his butt. Just my impression, although he did reference Shaq and Yao while working out...so I think there's some truth to it. |
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KB824 Star Player
Joined: 30 Sep 2008 Posts: 1067
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:54 am Post subject: |
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Loved watching the Lakers dominate. I believe they looked very good on D and on offense. The timing needs to get there with the lobs to Bynum. I was hoping for a triple double by Kobe he easily could have had it too. Believe 4 of those assists were in the first half. |
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Tony Almeida Retired
Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 12072
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:27 am Post subject: |
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DancingBarry wrote: | Tony Almeida wrote: | Vlad has been impressive, both ends of the court.
He's really kept the Space Cadet moments in check. |
Space Cadet has been replaced by Vlad the Impaler lately. 4 steals, another dunk, three ball... Crazy. |
Yup.
I noted the same thing in preseason. He was actually bringing more than just a three ball, in the same game, it was good to see.
It's Vlad's defense which has surprised.
He's moving his feet (relatively well anyways), closing out on shooters, and playing effective D by disrupting plays with his length.
Before, he would always be a step late, play erratically, and in the process, make too many Space Cadet plays on defense (fouling, late on rotations or close outs, out of position, torched). Now, he seems to be focusing on that end, and has been an effective defender.
Though, small sample size. As always, consistency will be key. |
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iceberg01 Star Player
Joined: 15 Apr 2001 Posts: 2324 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:35 am Post subject: |
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GREAT game to start the season, and it WAS a statement showing the Lakers' depth, balance, and commitment to defense. I can't understate that enough.
But, a couple of comments & criticisms of my own, if I may be so bold:
1. Andrew Bynum had a bad game--hopefully. As a 20-year old, receiving hype for the first time really in his life, in the season opener, against the #1 pick, AB came out trying to be offensively aggressive, and kinda forgot about the other aspects of the game somewhat, although he did block 3 shots. Some of it can be attributed to rust, some to youth, but a lot of it to inexperience. AB rushed up a LOT of bad shots, the worst of which was the pull up free throw line jumper on the break. Unsurprisingly, Phil came with the hook almost immediately after that play. Also AB has to get better at his deep low-post court awareness, or powering the ball up in traffic: still too often, he forces up awkward shots when he's TOO low in the post instead of pivoting into a better shot or just passing it out.
Barkley even commented that AB's offense has to get better: that right now he's just a shot-blocker/rebounder/finisher. And, in order for us to TRULY have twin towers, BOTH of them are going to have to be able to score & command doubles.
Also, AB got pushed around in a crowd by both Oden AND Pryzbilla, which has to improve: in tough games, he's going to have to impose his will & come up with some tough baskets, tough catches, and tough rebounds. I didn't like the fact that he missed a couple of easy lobs because he couldn't come down with the ball.
On the bright side, this game is probably the what? 82nd game AB has really played in? So, he's basically a 2nd year player in terms of games played. So there's still a lot to learn, in a positive sense. And last year, he showed his ability to learn EXTREMELY quickly.
He also showed the ability to refine his post-up game pretty quickly throughout the season last year, so I'm placing a calculated bet that he gets better in this department. But, at some point, he's going to have to muscle up & start POWERING up shots, & creating some space with that added muscle he's added: I don't want to see him become a purely finesse center, which he looks like he wants to do. Looking down the line to a potential Boston finals matchup (WAAAAY premature, I know), but he's going to have to start DESTROYING people in his one-on-one matchup for us to win, IMHO. Then & only then, the Lakers become truly UNSTOPPABLE: NO TEAM in the league has quality depth at the 4 AND 5 spots.
2. Reason to reserve some judgment on the Lakers' defense from last night: PORTLAND IS STILL A YOUNG, RELATIVELY BAD HALF-COURT TEAM.
True, it WAS VERY nice to see the Lakers actually TOTALLY DESTROY someone on DEFENSE for a change. AND, the Lakers deserve some credit because they're not totally in sync yet either. But, it's not time to pop the champagne yet, either: Steve Blake is probably in the bottom 90th percentile of Western Conference PG's, and Portland had little to no outside shooting from their starters. Greg Oden, even when he WAS on the floor, doesn't appear to be worthy of a double-team on the block, so it's not as if the Lakers played one of the best paint players, either.
BUT...
all that said, still, it was a GREAT START TO THE SEASON by the Lakers.
-peace. |
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GoldenThroat Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 37474
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: |
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Not that this is relevent, but I got handed a pair of seats in the PR5 section two hours before the game started. Right at mid court, and at the bottom of the second tier. Best seats I've ever had in terms of "seeing the action".
Our defense...simply amazing. The strong side zone was very well conceived and executed. Also, it's great to see us switching so much off of the ball. Portland looked extremely confused, and Kobe was fantastic off of the ball on Roy.
And the scary part was that we weren't especially sharp on the offensive end, IMO. This team has truly historic potential. |
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Banzai Star Player
Joined: 09 Oct 2007 Posts: 2884 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:51 am Post subject: Re: first |
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I think fail. |
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Mation Star Player
Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 3614
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:57 am Post subject: |
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On more than several defensive plays, I noticed that two Lakers would end up putting a hand in the shooter's face. Gotta love their reaction there. |
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RCS926 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2003 Posts: 16824
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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So much for Phil not wanting to double team. I like the new defensive philosophy of not leaving any one defender on an island. It really didn’t matter who had the ball on Portland’s end. If a Blazer had a Laker isolated, there was always another Laker teammates shading over to help if not outright doubling the offensive player. It was great to see the twin towers pack the paint and the 3 perimeter players swarm and trap everywhere else on the court. The standout defenders IMO were Kobe, Pau, Drew, Vlad, Ariza and LO. As for the individual players:
Kobe – Don’t provoke the Mamba because you’ll only get hurt. He took the challenge of guarding Roy seriously, and although he had a lot of help, it was good to see him get into that defensive crouch and lock in. Offensively, he looked uber-quick out on the floor and had no problems taking athletic defenders like Outlaw and Roy to school. I loved how he dominated the glass as well.
Pau – I wish the Lakers could’ve gotten him more involved in the 2nd half. However, I was impressed with his defensive rotations. He’s never really going to me a true intimidator, but his length and defensive IQ are going to cause a lot of problems for opposing teams especially alongside Drew.
Vlad – His defensive activity was noticeable last night, and I’m glad that he rewarded with some rare end-of-half minutes (he normally only starts halves). Even though Outlaw was Portland’s leading scorer, I though Vlad did an excellent job of defending him. He kept Outlaw on the perimeter and made him take tough shot after tough shot. His reads on defense were excellent as well as evidenced by his high steals total.
Fish – Fish got lost on rotations a couple of times. Blake was wide open a few too many times. However, Fish does have some defensive versatility of his own. It’s obvious that the 1-3 positions are going to swarm, trap and switch as necessary, and having a physically strong 1 like Fish allows the Lakers to switch more effectively. It’s not too big a mismatch when Fish switches onto a 2 or 3 because he has the strength to hold his ground until the help arrives. The switching D won’t always work with Farmar in the lineup because he’s physically weaker than Fish.
Drew – It seemed like he was a bit nervous out there. It took him a few games to catch up to the speed of preseason games, and it looked like he wasn’t quite prepared for the speed of a regular season game. He definitely looked like he was pressing out there as evidenced by some of his shot selection. The timing was off as well on the alley oops. However, aside from subpar defensive rebounding, I thought he affected the game defensively. The Blazers had a heck of a time trying to score in the paint, and Drew was even a factor in terms of the perimeter defense with some good rotations and shot challenges.
LO – His defense was amazing last night. The Lakers new style of defense is perfect for LO because while he is neither a lockdown man defender (i.e. Kobe) or a standout team defender (i.e. Ariza), his length and mobility for a guy his size can pose huge problems when it’s utilized in a switching, trapping style of D. His versatility on D (the ability to switch onto any position basically) is a HUGE asset. Offensively, it’s good to see LO take “natural” shots for him. He definitely looks more comfortable playing with the speed unit.
Ariza – I was impressed as usual with the team D, but I was even more impressed by the 3s that he hit in this game. Thus far, he’s shown that he has no trouble pulling the trigger on open jumpshots, and it looks like he’ll be able to hit them at a decent clip as well. Defensively, his versatility is a huge asset as well although to a lesser extent when compared to LO. I’d still like to see him lockdown a lot more in terms of his man D because Roy definitely had an easier time scoring on him than he did on Kobe.
Farmar – He didn’t have his best game, but he was still a factor out there even though he didn’t shoot the ball well. I think he needs to tone down some of the crazy passes, but overall, I’m glad that he’s back to being the engine on that 2nd unit.
Sasha – I’d like to see better shot selection from the Machine. You can tell that he’s hardwired to shoot every couple of minutes, and that results in bad shots at times. Still, I like his intensity on the floor and his ability to take over point duties from Farmar on any given possession. |
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iceberg01 Star Player
Joined: 15 Apr 2001 Posts: 2324 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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One more comment about LO:
Although I've never been a "LO guy", and have criticized him OFTEN here, I have to say: He's a potentially GREAT bench player.
The fact that he CAN play with the uptempo unit, and play to his strengths (full-court/open court passing, rebounding, pushing the ball) is right up his alley, and it takes away the stigma of LO not scoring a lot. All of a sudden, if LO scores in single-digits, it's no big deal: if he scores double figures, it's a bonus. If he makes a mistake (like last night's pass to Sasha), it doesn't matter as much, because he's now perceived as a "bench player", instead of all the weight of being "the 2nd option", or "the 3rd option".
At the risk of turning this into "an LO thread", I'll just sum it up by saying that the reduced expectations of LO will do wonders for his image among Laker fans. Whereas he was expected to be the "Scottie Pippen" to Kobe's Jordan, now he's basically the catalyst off of the bench... who no longer has to score to be appreciated. Good luck, LO. |
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KingKobe Star Player
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 3550 Location: UCLA
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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One last thing about the defense: Fisher and Sasha still haven't got their flopping game going.
I wouldn't want to be an opposing player and get stifled by two (or three counting LO) long 7 footers, on lock down from Kobe, and have Ariza and Farmar in my passing lanes just so Sasha can come in and flop into an offensive foul.
That's got to be the definition of frustration. _________________ *Warning: The preceding post may have contained sarcasm and/or irony.
"We're all surrounded by idiots." - Kobe Bryant |
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clubced Starting Rotation
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 255
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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Seems that Bynum still needs work with positioning. I saw him right in Pau's path at the bucket a few times. Also, a nice sign was only seeing Walton during the tail end of garbage time. And Mihm looked pretty good in his garbage minutes. |
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DancingBarry Editor-in-Chief
Joined: 07 Sep 2001 Posts: 40216 Location: O.C.
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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RCS926 wrote: | LO – His defense was amazing last night. The Lakers new style of defense is perfect for LO because while he is neither a lockdown man defender (i.e. Kobe) or a standout team defender (i.e. Ariza), his length and mobility for a guy his size can pose huge problems when it’s utilized in a switching, trapping style of D. His versatility on D (the ability to switch onto any position basically) is a HUGE asset. Offensively, it’s good to see LO take “natural” shots for him. He definitely looks more comfortable playing with the speed unit.
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His defensive versatility is big for this team. It's not that he is a lockdown defender, but he can fill holes and rotate without major consequences. The more you can take advantage of that, the better. |
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LaMesaLakerLover Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Oct 2007 Posts: 529
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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The Good: Kobe's willingness to get everyone into the flow of the game before he does his thing, team defense and chemistry, Trevor playing inspired d and hitting jumpers with no hesitation, winning big, and Luke playing scrub duty.
The Bad: Fisher still thinks he can drive the lane and score when he's 1 on 3, Kobe's out of flow jumpers in the 3rd, and letting a 22 point lead shrink to 8 in about 6 (game minutes).
The Ugly: N/A |
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LakerSanity Moderator
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Portland is a good team and we made them look like a bad one. Last game from Kobe down to Luke we did not see close to how good this team can be. Offensively, we aren't near how good we will be... passes still aren't perfectly crisp, LO is still getting used to his bench role, and Sasha/Bynum still are rounding back into their usual playing form.
My only concern is defense... I loved what I saw last night, but the key is to keep up that intensity for the full 48 minutes and to do so for the full 82 game schedule leading into the playoffs. Easy to have that kind of intensity in game 1 and through the early part of the season, but it is hard to keep it up for 6+ months. It was what the Celtics did last year and what we have to do this year. Remember, Kobe was much more intense defensively the first half of last season than he was the second half. The key will be to limit the minutes of the starters and to make everyone accountable for their defensive play... this team has enough depth to make almost anyone replaceable if they don't do their part.
It's just one game, but I've been saying it for half of a year now... this team, fully healthy, will be amazingly, even historically good. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
Twitter: @DeleteThisPost
Last edited by LakerSanity on Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ocho Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 53929
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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^exactly right LS. Teams win titles when they make a commitment to be a defensive team. that's what we saw last night. if it continues with that intensity...we'll be just fine. |
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Trevacious Star Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004 Posts: 1833
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Greg Oden, even when he WAS on the floor, doesn't appear to be worthy of a double-team on the block, so it's not as if the Lakers played one of the best paint players, either. |
What I liked is that they didn't even give him the opportunity to Demonstrate whether he was worthy of doubling or not. They just swarmed him and started knocking the ball out of his hands. I liked that. |
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