View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Wilt LG Contributor
Joined: 29 Dec 2002 Posts: 13746
|
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:39 am Post subject: Artest in the Offense |
|
|
Ariza is gone, but now we have Artest. There's no question that Artest is a better player and is in the middle of his prime. So what will be Artest's role in the Laker system? The answer is here.
Due to his limited ball handling skills in fullcourt and the difficulty to quickly grasp the many duties of the triangle initiator, Artest will be limited at first to the wing, meaning that Kobe and Fisher will make up the two-guard front. That will change eventually, since Kobe likes to stay on that wing in the halfcourt.
This blog post will cover Artest's options on the wing, top of the key, and semi transition.
Enjoy.
LINK: http://forums.lakersground.net/blog.php/2009/09/02/ron-artest-in-the-triangle-offense/ _________________ ¡Hala Madrid! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Spirit Star Player
Joined: 27 Oct 2004 Posts: 1781 Location: Somewhere in the Pacific
|
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
Once again, good stuff, Wilt. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Socks Franchise Player
Joined: 01 Feb 2006 Posts: 10761 Location: Bay Area, CA
|
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
Nice Wilt. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
waterman40 Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2003 Posts: 6292 Location: Central Coast
|
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks Wilt, good stuff. _________________ LAKERS 2019-2020: NBA World Champions! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
City_Dawg Retired Number
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 Posts: 46884 Location: Coming soon and striking at your borders.
|
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
_________________ *sighs*
!... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Great One Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 3174 Location: Girl I'm Back in Spanish Town
|
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
Believe diagram 6 will really utilize Artest strengths on Offense.
He is a our Second best Post player. _________________ "Nobody hates the good ones. They hate the great ones." - KB |
|
Back to top |
|
|
GoldenThroat Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 37474
|
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
All hail Wilt. I want to get you drunk and...errr...pick your brain about basketball. (nice save, GT!) *pats self on back*
Seriously though, your contributions are one of the best parts about this site. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
koolmo23 Star Player
Joined: 11 May 2008 Posts: 4661
|
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
great post thanks wilts |
|
Back to top |
|
|
IPK Star Player
Joined: 19 Feb 2008 Posts: 6859
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
JerryMagicKobe Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 15100
|
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Nice work as always, Wilt!
I watched a couple games this summer from last season, and just focused on TA - where he set up, where he cut, where he spotted up, and I imagined what Ron could do in his place. The open looks are great, but it sure seemed like there would be a lot of chances for him to take his man down to the block, seal with that big body while the ball is swung, and then just receive the pass and go up. Especially cosidering the personnel used to guard Trevor. Ron just adds one more layer to an already potent offense, and as much as I crave that opening night game, I get really excited thinking about March and April. I think Phil is going to have a blast putting in the additions he likes to save for the stretch run. Once Ron masters the basics, these guys are going to be un-freakin'-believable! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
70sdude Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009 Posts: 4567
|
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks Wilt, nice work.
Ariza was not a real good dribbler, but he was able to bring the ball upcourt for the offense under light pressure (and did so a fair number of times after either ball-outs or defensive rebounds ). This option presented a powerful option for Kobe to head straight to one of his favored (post) positions for an entry pass or a roll to another position. It was an effective combination at any rate.
Though Artest is not quite as triangle-capable initially as an experienced Ariza for this one thing, it seems his dribbling ability ought to be sound enough to bring the ball up past mid-court as initiator. He can dribble some, right ? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
OshadowO Star Player
Joined: 22 Feb 2003 Posts: 7356
|
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
fantastic blog post wilt. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wilt LG Contributor
Joined: 29 Dec 2002 Posts: 13746
|
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
Someone noticed that I made a mistake in describing what happens in diagram 4. It's been fixed. _________________ ¡Hala Madrid! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wilt LG Contributor
Joined: 29 Dec 2002 Posts: 13746
|
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
70sdude wrote: | Thanks Wilt, nice work.
Ariza was not a real good dribbler, but he was able to bring the ball upcourt for the offense under light pressure (and did so a fair number of times after either ball-outs or defensive rebounds ). This option presented a powerful option for Kobe to head straight to one of his favored (post) positions for an entry pass or a roll to another position. It was an effective combination at any rate.
Though Artest is not quite as triangle-capable initially as an experienced Ariza for this one thing, it seems his dribbling ability ought to be sound enough to bring the ball up past mid-court as initiator. He can dribble some, right ? |
Eventually, he'll transition into the two-guard front. At least, I hope it happens. It'll save Kobe a lot of energy. _________________ ¡Hala Madrid! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
GoldenThroat Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 37474
|
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
70sdude wrote: | Thanks Wilt, nice work.
Ariza was not a real good dribbler, but he was able to bring the ball upcourt for the offense under light pressure (and did so a fair number of times after either ball-outs or defensive rebounds ). This option presented a powerful option for Kobe to head straight to one of his favored (post) positions for an entry pass or a roll to another position. It was an effective combination at any rate.
Though Artest is not quite as triangle-capable initially as an experienced Ariza for this one thing, it seems his dribbling ability ought to be sound enough to bring the ball up past mid-court as initiator. He can dribble some, right ? |
As much as I like Trevor, in addition to his below average dribbling ability, his decision making in terms of swing passes or post entry passes left a lot to be desired. I'm hoping Artest is an upgrade in that respect as well. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58409
|
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
Very cool. Love the diagrams ... Really puts it together.
Ron will play alot of 3, 2 and even 4 both positionally and in the offense. He won't be fixed to SF/3 spot like Ariza ... Phil usually uses players with multiple skills and who can defend multiple positions in a very versatile manner.
My guess right now is that Ron will play his best at SF when our objective (as well as his) is to get him shots inside. The first diagram is the best one, Wilt. I really want the Lakers and him to seek those options above all else. He can certainly make the post entry pass from what I saw of him in Houston w/Yao. Now it's on him to cut and go get those post plays.
Ideally, if it all works out. Ron is more of an initiator, sniper at 3 with the starters. Then more of a post up player when Lamar comes in. Mostly because he'll have more room to operate inside when Kobe/Gasol/Bynum aren't all in the game at the same time. When they are, he will need to help out more by setting strong screens, initiating, shooting the open looks etc. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
elhuynh Sixth Man
Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 25
|
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
peendog Starting Rotation
Joined: 28 May 2008 Posts: 330
|
Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
artest will make it work.. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
limchrc Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 11477
|
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
nice thanks |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Sage_10 Star Player
Joined: 24 Dec 2005 Posts: 6668
|
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Looks good although I must admit, I don't understand everything. But I think having Ron will pay the most dividends when Kobe and Pau are on the bench. He'll be able to establish a post presence and give our shooters outside looks. _________________ "You Must Be Willing To Give Up That Which Can Be Lost In Order To Gain That Which Cannot Be Lost." - FORTUNE COOKIE |
|
Back to top |
|
|
8Five8Seven Starting Rotation
Joined: 24 Jul 2009 Posts: 753 Location: Waipahu, Oahu
|
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
great analysis Wilt! _________________ Pancho's Happy Bottom Riding Club |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Vishnu Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 16558
|
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wilkes52 Star Player
Joined: 02 Jun 2009 Posts: 2415 Location: Far from home
|
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
A player's rate of acclimatization to a triangle offense is quite variable, though perhaps not that hard to predict sometimes.
We've seen a "high hoops IQ guy" like Pau Gasol slide into the Laker offense quickly, easily and with near-immediate positive impacts. We've also seen a "high individual skills guy" here before, one whose size, build, scoring style and athletic skills closely parallel those of our new guy, Ron Artest. That was Isaiah "JR" Rider.
I remember (as I'm sure you do too) seeing JR's old career patterns of 1:1 offense, ball-holding, dribbling, and very decent shooting having replicated themselves here too. He was used both out front as a guard and lower as a wing, primarily in the second unit with Horry. Interestingly, JR did score fairly effectively, if not so much as an element of the triangle offense but rather as a bail-out option for the second unit's half court offense, as the clock wound down. Hmmm.
That really makes me wonder what Phil will do initially to place Ron into the playing rotation. Maybe he tests Ron initially in both the first and second units to measure his effectiveness. The second unit actually runs the triangle more fully in the half court than does the first unit with Kobe on the floor. Maybe Ron could bring higher scoring effectiveness to the second unit's offense, in ways similar to Rider. On the other hand, would a second unit role simply mess with Ron's psyche too much to risk the experiment ? Hmmm.
In any event, here's to our chances that Ron makes a Pau-like seamless, natural, positive transition into the Laker systems.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
THE_SHOES Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 29556 Location: Taiwan
|
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Absolutely Wilkes... That is why Artest at least starting the season on unit 2 just makes more sense. Slowly, and possibly more effectively getting the offense down would pay huge dividends by playoff time. Starting Luke to begin the season would also be a plus for the Bynum Gasol connection to start building some solid continuity which should be priority one for the Lakers... Phil could promise Ron that starters spot as soon as he becomes fluid in the system. Luke certainly won't mind any sudden change since we know from last season his ego is as flexible as it gets.
Oh, and kudos on the brilliant analysis... _________________ "According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
|
Back to top |
|
|
70sdude Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009 Posts: 4567
|
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
With time and these charts, I'm getting over the Ariza departure blues somewhat, having now both studied Wilt's diagrams more and seen more video examples of Artest's post moves. I guess I'd forgotten some of RA's early career usefulness inside as a scoring threat.
From what I can tell, he's not what I'd call a methodical post scorer but he's also not always ultra-quick to try to pull the trigger from there either. I can't wait to see how Ron is used - and how he reacts - within this offense as a post threat.
I see some unusually strong opportunities with his and Lamar's inside-outside, left-right side "interoperability" and size. I really can't tell ahead of time whether working them together or separately (in either unit) would yield stronger sets.
Having these options never hurts, is what I take from it now. New options too. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|