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Free_Kobe Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 13197 Location: @ the beach
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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Acoustic Alchemy
Django Reinhardt _________________ ♪ ♫One good thing about music, when it hits, you feel no pain...
So hit me with music! ♪ ♫ |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90326 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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TACH wrote: | Some new (to me) stuff I recent picked up (not exact 'jazz'... more of jazz hiphop fusion)...
Greyboy - 15 Years of West Coast Cool
The Extremities - The New Tonic
DJ Mark Farina - Mushroom Jazz |
Isn't that a lot like mixing spritzer with a $500 bottle of wine? _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 6429
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Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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LuxuryBrown wrote: | Bballguru5000 wrote: | LuxuryBrown wrote: | (Rubs eyes...focuses...rubs eyes again...then reads following comment):
Quote: | They weren't the best at their respective instruments. |
(Rubs eyes again...Gets some Visine...Applies the Visine...then re-reads that comment...Then turns off computer ) |
If you think Coltrane and Miles were the greatest at their respective instruments then your knowledge of jazz music is not that great, so we can't really debate this any further. You're simply going by recognizable names and whom every Jane thinks is the best. |
This kid's hilarious. I love how he thinks his opinion is the end-all of opinions and that no one else can even chime in on, and yet it's MERELY his own "PERSONAL CHOICES" of what HE digs .
Yeah, hit me up when you can seriously breakdown "Coltrane's Sound" or "B|tches Brew," playa. Hell, you can even start with "Blue Train". |
Lux, you my boy and all, but honestly, you can't even mention Miles in the same sentence as Clifford Brown. Miles was an all time great and all, but Brownie was simply, and far and away, the best who ever lived. I mean, if you simply break down the elements of Jazz trumpet playing, Brownie was simply as good as or better, in every facet, than anyone who ever played the instrument.
I'm not saying Clifford was as important in the overall scheme of Jazz, obviously. Miles lived to 70 and was at the forefront of several movements while Clifford died at 25.
But as a trumpet player only, Miles wasn't in the same class as Clifford, not even debatable. |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 6429
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Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:27 pm Post subject: Re: Your Top 10 favorite Jazz Musicians |
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Bballguru5000 wrote: | Board, list your top 10 favorite jazz musicians of all time. If this has been already posted, I apologize.
Mine (in no particular order after Charlie Parker. He's my favorite):
1. Charlie Parker
2. Clifford Brown
3. Sonny Rollins
4. Lester Young
5. Art Blakey
6. J.J. Johnson
7. Coleman Hawkins
8. Hank Mobley
9. Dizzy Gillespie
10. Roy Eldridge
Edit: I edited the title to make it clear it's about who you like most, not necessarily who are the best. |
1. Clifford Brown
2. Charlie Parker
3. Sonny Rollins
4. T. Monk
5. Max Roach
6. Lee Morgan
7. Paul Chambers
8. Louis Armstrong-1925-1933 when he basically invented the music, hated his playing once he began trying to broaden his appeal, and thereby take the edge off.
9. Art Tatum
10. Miles Davis
11. John Coltrane
12. Fats Navarro
13. Dizzy Gillespie
14. Cannonball Adderly
15. Django Reinhardt
16. Wynton Kelly
17. Dexter Gorden
18. Woody Shaw
19. Charlie Mingus
20. Elvin Jones |
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LuxuryBrown Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 17429 Location: Mackadocious, Ca.
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Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | LuxuryBrown wrote: | Bballguru5000 wrote: | LuxuryBrown wrote: | (Rubs eyes...focuses...rubs eyes again...then reads following comment):
Quote: | They weren't the best at their respective instruments. |
(Rubs eyes again...Gets some Visine...Applies the Visine...then re-reads that comment...Then turns off computer ) |
If you think Coltrane and Miles were the greatest at their respective instruments then your knowledge of jazz music is not that great, so we can't really debate this any further. You're simply going by recognizable names and whom every Jane thinks is the best. |
This kid's hilarious. I love how he thinks his opinion is the end-all of opinions and that no one else can even chime in on, and yet it's MERELY his own "PERSONAL CHOICES" of what HE digs .
Yeah, hit me up when you can seriously breakdown "Coltrane's Sound" or "B|tches Brew," playa. Hell, you can even start with "Blue Train". |
Lux, you my boy and all, but honestly, you can't even mention Miles in the same sentence as Clifford Brown. Miles was an all time great and all, but Brownie was simply, and far and away, the best who ever lived. I mean, if you simply break down the elements of Jazz trumpet playing, Brownie was simply as good as or better, in every facet, than anyone who ever played the instrument.
I'm not saying Clifford was as important in the overall scheme of Jazz, obviously. Miles lived to 70 and was at the forefront of several movements while Clifford died at 25.
But as a trumpet player only, Miles wasn't in the same class as Clifford, not even debatable. |
Whew-Wee! That's a BIG claim, bruh! . I don't know about that. I've heard some of CB, and he's got some nice compositions - easily, but I wouldn't say it's not debateable between he and Miles. _________________
Quote: | Smooth, but I move like an army / Bulletproof down in case brothas try to bomb me / Puttin' brothas to rest like Elliot Ness / Cuz I don't like stress
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90326 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:20 am Post subject: |
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LuxuryBrown wrote: | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | LuxuryBrown wrote: | Bballguru5000 wrote: | LuxuryBrown wrote: | (Rubs eyes...focuses...rubs eyes again...then reads following comment):
Quote: | They weren't the best at their respective instruments. |
(Rubs eyes again...Gets some Visine...Applies the Visine...then re-reads that comment...Then turns off computer ) |
If you think Coltrane and Miles were the greatest at their respective instruments then your knowledge of jazz music is not that great, so we can't really debate this any further. You're simply going by recognizable names and whom every Jane thinks is the best. |
This kid's hilarious. I love how he thinks his opinion is the end-all of opinions and that no one else can even chime in on, and yet it's MERELY his own "PERSONAL CHOICES" of what HE digs .
Yeah, hit me up when you can seriously breakdown "Coltrane's Sound" or "B|tches Brew," playa. Hell, you can even start with "Blue Train". |
Lux, you my boy and all, but honestly, you can't even mention Miles in the same sentence as Clifford Brown. Miles was an all time great and all, but Brownie was simply, and far and away, the best who ever lived. I mean, if you simply break down the elements of Jazz trumpet playing, Brownie was simply as good as or better, in every facet, than anyone who ever played the instrument.
I'm not saying Clifford was as important in the overall scheme of Jazz, obviously. Miles lived to 70 and was at the forefront of several movements while Clifford died at 25.
But as a trumpet player only, Miles wasn't in the same class as Clifford, not even debatable. |
Whew-Wee! That's a BIG claim, bruh! . I don't know about that. I've heard some of CB, and he's got some nice compositions - easily, but I wouldn't say it's not debateable between he and Miles. |
Let's see. Unless I can't read, you two are debating it right now
BTW, love them both, but not enough of an aficionado to make a qualified argument... _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Bballguru5000 Star Player
Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 8125 Location: Born and Raised in Los Angeles, now living in Manhattan, NY.
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:23 am Post subject: Re: Your Top 10 favorite Jazz Musicians |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: |
1. Clifford Brown
2. Charlie Parker
3. Sonny Rollins
4. T. Monk
5. Max Roach
6. Lee Morgan
7. Paul Chambers
8. Louis Armstrong-1925-1933 when he basically invented the music, hated his playing once he began trying to broaden his appeal, and thereby take the edge off.
9. Art Tatum
10. Miles Davis
11. John Coltrane
12. Fats Navarro
13. Dizzy Gillespie
14. Cannonball Adderly
15. Django Reinhardt
16. Wynton Kelly
17. Dexter Gorden
18. Woody Shaw
19. Charlie Mingus
20. Elvin Jones |
That's a very impressive list. |
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Bballguru5000 Star Player
Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 8125 Location: Born and Raised in Los Angeles, now living in Manhattan, NY.
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:36 am Post subject: |
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It's hard to really debate between musicians who are among the greatest ever. It comes down to personal appeal -- that is, which ones you respond to personally. For me, on trumpet, it's Cliff Brown. But that's just my opinion, which doesn't mean a hell of a lot. Like KB-CB said, Cliffy's career was much much shorter than Miles'.
I have similar opinions when it comes to Sonny Rollins and John Coltrane. Many would argue Coltrane was better (and I wouldn't attempt to change their minds because it's their opinion), but for me, I relate much more to Sonny's sound. That isn't to say Coltrane was worse necessarily and that I don't like his sound. I just relate more to Sonny's sound. |
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mike_dee23 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 11703
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:31 am Post subject: |
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I like Miles Davis and John Coltrane. I like Dave Brubeck (because I met him and some of his band). I'm pretty naive when it comes to jazz. _________________ MTFBWYA |
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unggoy Star Player
Joined: 03 Mar 2002 Posts: 5690
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:45 am Post subject: |
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Nice to see Django getting mentioned. One of the more interesteing stories for a musician, the way he had to re-train himself to play, and his following in places like Italy, Cuba and Japan, it's pretty amazing stuff.
I was mocked on this site before when I mentioned him as one of the great guitarists, period, in any genre, but his name is mentioned as an influence on many, many guitar players, John Frusciante among them. |
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Bballguru5000 Star Player
Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 8125 Location: Born and Raised in Los Angeles, now living in Manhattan, NY.
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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unggoy wrote: | Nice to see Django getting mentioned. One of the more interesteing stories for a musician, the way he had to re-train himself to play, and his following in places like Italy, Cuba and Japan, it's pretty amazing stuff.
I was mocked on this site before when I mentioned him as one of the great guitarists, period, in any genre, but his name is mentioned as an influence on many, many guitar players, John Frusciante among them. |
Django has influenced many guitar players, and it's certainly debatable when mentioning him among the greatest guitar players of all time. There's no such a thing as "THE GREATEST," though, when it comes to these things. One can always make a strong argument, but with this stuff, it's too subjective. Because at the end of the day, it's not the technical ability that moves anyone. It's the sound. How it sounds in my ears is what matters. |
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LuxuryBrown Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 17429 Location: Mackadocious, Ca.
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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mike_dee23 wrote: | I like Miles Davis and John Coltrane. I like Dave Brubeck (because I met him and some of his band). I'm pretty naive when it comes to jazz. |
But that's the one beautiful thing about jazz - you can be so-called "naive" about the genre and its musicians and STILL "know the scene". Feel me? _________________
Quote: | Smooth, but I move like an army / Bulletproof down in case brothas try to bomb me / Puttin' brothas to rest like Elliot Ness / Cuz I don't like stress
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90326 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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LuxuryBrown wrote: | mike_dee23 wrote: | I like Miles Davis and John Coltrane. I like Dave Brubeck (because I met him and some of his band). I'm pretty naive when it comes to jazz. |
But that's the one beautiful thing about jazz - you can be so-called "naive" about the genre and its musicians and STILL "know the scene". Feel me? |
Jazz is very much like the blues (or love for that matter). You either feel it or you don't, and no amount of educating yourself can change that one way or the other. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 6429
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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24 wrote: | LuxuryBrown wrote: | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | LuxuryBrown wrote: | Bballguru5000 wrote: | LuxuryBrown wrote: | (Rubs eyes...focuses...rubs eyes again...then reads following comment):
Quote: | They weren't the best at their respective instruments. |
(Rubs eyes again...Gets some Visine...Applies the Visine...then re-reads that comment...Then turns off computer ) |
If you think Coltrane and Miles were the greatest at their respective instruments then your knowledge of jazz music is not that great, so we can't really debate this any further. You're simply going by recognizable names and whom every Jane thinks is the best. |
This kid's hilarious. I love how he thinks his opinion is the end-all of opinions and that no one else can even chime in on, and yet it's MERELY his own "PERSONAL CHOICES" of what HE digs .
Yeah, hit me up when you can seriously breakdown "Coltrane's Sound" or "B|tches Brew," playa. Hell, you can even start with "Blue Train". |
Lux, you my boy and all, but honestly, you can't even mention Miles in the same sentence as Clifford Brown. Miles was an all time great and all, but Brownie was simply, and far and away, the best who ever lived. I mean, if you simply break down the elements of Jazz trumpet playing, Brownie was simply as good as or better, in every facet, than anyone who ever played the instrument.
I'm not saying Clifford was as important in the overall scheme of Jazz, obviously. Miles lived to 70 and was at the forefront of several movements while Clifford died at 25.
But as a trumpet player only, Miles wasn't in the same class as Clifford, not even debatable. |
Whew-Wee! That's a BIG claim, bruh! . I don't know about that. I've heard some of CB, and he's got some nice compositions - easily, but I wouldn't say it's not debateable between he and Miles. |
Let's see. Unless I can't read, you two are debating it right now
BTW, love them both, but not enough of an aficionado to make a qualified argument... |
I should have qualified my statement that amongst those who have listened to virtually every recording both have made, it isn't debatable.
My bad. |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 6429
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Your Top 10 favorite Jazz Musicians |
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Bballguru5000 wrote: | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: |
1. Clifford Brown
2. Charlie Parker
3. Sonny Rollins
4. T. Monk
5. Max Roach
6. Lee Morgan
7. Paul Chambers
8. Louis Armstrong-1925-1933 when he basically invented the music, hated his playing once he began trying to broaden his appeal, and thereby take the edge off.
9. Art Tatum
10. Miles Davis
11. John Coltrane
12. Fats Navarro
13. Dizzy Gillespie
14. Cannonball Adderly
15. Django Reinhardt
16. Wynton Kelly
17. Dexter Gorden
18. Woody Shaw
19. Charlie Mingus
20. Elvin Jones |
That's a very impressive list. |
Thanks BBG. I have two passionate interests. Basketball and Jazz and as much as I love basketball, I love Jazz even more. I did make a mistake there in my haste. I'd probably place Bud Powell in there ahead of Wyntn Kelly. |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 6429
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Bballguru5000 wrote: | It's hard to really debate between musicians who are among the greatest ever. It comes down to personal appeal -- that is, which ones you respond to personally. For me, on trumpet, it's Cliff Brown. But that's just my opinion, which doesn't mean a hell of a lot. Like KB-CB said, Cliffy's career was much much shorter than Miles'.
I have similar opinions when it comes to Sonny Rollins and John Coltrane. Many would argue Coltrane was better (and I wouldn't attempt to change their minds because it's their opinion), but for me, I relate much more to Sonny's sound. That isn't to say Coltrane was worse necessarily and that I don't like his sound. I just relate more to Sonny's sound. |
I think yes and no. Fundamentally, Jazz musicians know who's playing and who ain't. In the case of Clifford and Miles, Bird knew the deal as did Miles. Miles was terrified of Clifford as was every trumpet player of the era. Brownie retired Quincy Jones from trumper and gave Art Farmer ulcers and Miles, well, he was so afraid of Clifford that he once screamed at him to break his chops.
Musicians know. Freddie Hubbard, probably the most technically gifted trumpeter outside of Clifford has admitted that he was afraid of Lee Morgan. |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 6429
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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unggoy wrote: | Nice to see Django getting mentioned. One of the more interesteing stories for a musician, the way he had to re-train himself to play, and his following in places like Italy, Cuba and Japan, it's pretty amazing stuff.
I was mocked on this site before when I mentioned him as one of the great guitarists, period, in any genre, but his name is mentioned as an influence on many, many guitar players, John Frusciante among them. |
Django was an absolute monster and to think he did it with 3 fingers. Wow!
Anyone mocking his inclusion amongst the greatest ever is simply ignorant. |
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LuxuryBrown Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 17429 Location: Mackadocious, Ca.
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Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:04 am Post subject: |
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24 wrote: | LuxuryBrown wrote: | mike_dee23 wrote: | I like Miles Davis and John Coltrane. I like Dave Brubeck (because I met him and some of his band). I'm pretty naive when it comes to jazz. |
But that's the one beautiful thing about jazz - you can be so-called "naive" about the genre and its musicians and STILL "know the scene". Feel me? |
Jazz is very much like the blues (or love for that matter). You either feel it or you don't, and no amount of educating yourself can change that one way or the other. |
Tru dat. _________________
Quote: | Smooth, but I move like an army / Bulletproof down in case brothas try to bomb me / Puttin' brothas to rest like Elliot Ness / Cuz I don't like stress
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Bballguru5000 Star Player
Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 8125 Location: Born and Raised in Los Angeles, now living in Manhattan, NY.
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Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | Bballguru5000 wrote: | It's hard to really debate between musicians who are among the greatest ever. It comes down to personal appeal -- that is, which ones you respond to personally. For me, on trumpet, it's Cliff Brown. But that's just my opinion, which doesn't mean a hell of a lot. Like KB-CB said, Cliffy's career was much much shorter than Miles'.
I have similar opinions when it comes to Sonny Rollins and John Coltrane. Many would argue Coltrane was better (and I wouldn't attempt to change their minds because it's their opinion), but for me, I relate much more to Sonny's sound. That isn't to say Coltrane was worse necessarily and that I don't like his sound. I just relate more to Sonny's sound. |
I think yes and no. Fundamentally, Jazz musicians know who's playing and who ain't. In the case of Clifford and Miles, Bird knew the deal as did Miles. Miles was terrified of Clifford as was every trumpet player of the era. Brownie retired Quincy Jones from trumper and gave Art Farmer ulcers and Miles, well, he was so afraid of Clifford that he once screamed at him to break his chops.
Musicians know. Freddie Hubbard, probably the most technically gifted trumpeter outside of Clifford has admitted that he was afraid of Lee Morgan. |
Those are some cool stories. Have more to share?
I'm sure THEY knew the deal. When you're involved in an art form at that level, you know who makes you shake in your boots. lol |
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Bballguru5000 Star Player
Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 8125 Location: Born and Raised in Los Angeles, now living in Manhattan, NY.
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Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | unggoy wrote: | Nice to see Django getting mentioned. One of the more interesteing stories for a musician, the way he had to re-train himself to play, and his following in places like Italy, Cuba and Japan, it's pretty amazing stuff.
I was mocked on this site before when I mentioned him as one of the great guitarists, period, in any genre, but his name is mentioned as an influence on many, many guitar players, John Frusciante among them. |
Django was an absolute monster and to think he did it with 3 fingers. Wow!
Anyone mocking his inclusion amongst the greatest ever is simply ignorant. |
He's not saying anyone argued with Django being amongst the greatest ever (which he clearly was), but as THE GREATEST ever. Whether or not he was the absolute greatest ever is unimportant to me, since I'm not the ranking type. |
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The Buss Star Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2006 Posts: 1350
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Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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In no particular order:
Miles
Coltrane
Duke Ellington
Thelonious monk
Robben Ford
Dave Brubeck
Scott Henderson
Joe Pass
Django Reinhart
Charlie Parker
Lois Armstrong
Walter Becker
There's A LOT more that'll probably come to me later and the last one was a total home pick cause i'm a big steely dan fan but that's a few of them for now. My dad went to GIT down in LA so he got to meet a lot of these guys.....said Joe Pass blew him away the first time he saw him......just a little old bald dude but he could play the hell out of the guitar. _________________ [Insert ignorant or naive statement from poster here.] |
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LuxuryBrown Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 17429 Location: Mackadocious, Ca.
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Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:11 am Post subject: |
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Freddie Hubbard passed away. RIP. _________________
Quote: | Smooth, but I move like an army / Bulletproof down in case brothas try to bomb me / Puttin' brothas to rest like Elliot Ness / Cuz I don't like stress
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 6429
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Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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LuxuryBrown wrote: | Freddie Hubbard passed away. RIP. |
Saw that.
He was the only trumpet player with the chops to match Clifford. But I never warmed to his style, maybe because he never really seemed to know what he wanted to do. In any case, where Clifford's solos were case studies in logic and cohesion, Freddie's were the exact opposite.
That being aside, he was the most brilliant post-Clifford Brown/Lee Morgan trumpeter jazz had to offer until Roy Hargrove came along. And because of that, it is a sad day for the music. |
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unggoy Star Player
Joined: 03 Mar 2002 Posts: 5690
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Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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Bballguru5000 wrote: | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: |
Django was an absolute monster and to think he did it with 3 fingers. Wow!
Anyone mocking his inclusion amongst the greatest ever is simply ignorant. |
He's not saying anyone argued with Django being amongst the greatest ever |
No, that is what i was saying. I made the claim that Django was among the greats in any genre, and his influence was wide-spread in all types of music. I was mocked as a result. But you know, it's okay. The kids don't know. They should, but they don't, so what are you going to do? |
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Trip_aka_Ace Star Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2008 Posts: 1761
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Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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In No Specific Order
Sonny Rollins
Willie "The Lion" Smith / James P Johnson (tied)
Miles Davis
John Coltrane
Charlie Parker
Dizzy Gillespie
Duke Ellington
Art Tatum
Thelonius Monk
Clifford Brown
im just a fan of the stride pianist |
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