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ElginWorthy
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Joined: 16 Jun 2001
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 Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:16 am Post subject: |
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Great win, mostly thanks to Fisher. Kobe was pissing me off. It was like the Kobe from a few years ago, forcing shots, taking bad shots way too often.
He played excellent defense, but he almost cost them the game on offense.
That wasn't the mature Kobe I've come to respect over the years. That was the selfish, "give me the ball!!" Kobe who doesn't get his team involved and make them better.
You win as a team. You lose when you go one on one. Kobe knows better.
They can all but lock up the series with another win in Boston. But it's going to take a team effort, and Kobe's going to have to get the entire team involved. Ironically, he could learn something from Artest. Artest took some really dumb shots in their loss at home, and then played with far more control in Boston.
Watch the game film, Kobe!!!
All of that said, excellent win . . . |
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RCS926
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Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 16824
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| Sister Golden Hair wrote: | Great write-up. I think the Lakers need to stop walking the ball up the court. This allows Boston to set up their D, establish defenisve position in the post, and force the lakers to start their offense in badf position with the clock ticking. A lot of bad shoots result from the offense not even getting going until 10 seconds have elapsed.
I'm not advocating a 7 seconds or less offense, but one that gets the ball down court and start attacking early. if a good shot is there, you take it. But the key is to move the ball around and force boston to move their feet on D.
When the lakers stopp the ball movement (or simply never initiate it), that plays into Boston's overload, challenge every pass type D.
Move the ball via the pass.
Whenever you see a laker dribbling too much, you know the offense is not being run correctly. Kobe, Lo, Jordan and Shannon are all guilty of this.
The ball should be moving, and the movement starts as soon as they in-bound the ball or get the defensive stop.
LO is particularly bad at getting the ball into the front-court quickly.
Just get it up and start attacking. It doesn't mean you have to heave early threes. Tjink of it this way: you want Boston to move their feet as much as possible, because by the 4th quarter, they will be gassed. |
This is the biggest adjustment that needs to be made tomorrow. Getting the ball up the court quickly give the Lakers a few extra seconds of shot clock to work with and allows them to go to option B and C if option A is taken away. |
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davidse
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Joined: 03 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:25 am Post subject: |
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something that needs to be said about kobe's bad shots - a little of that was his own fault, but most of the blame is on phil.
either get the team to play the right way even facing what was a great boston defense, or at least find a way to get good shots for the best player in the world.
did i mention i was disappointed with phil ?...  |
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RCS926
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Joined: 05 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| ElginWorthy wrote: | Great win, mostly thanks to Fisher. Kobe was pissing me off. It was like the Kobe from a few years ago, forcing shots, taking bad shots way too often.
He played excellent defense, but he almost cost them the game on offense.
That wasn't the mature Kobe I've come to respect over the years. That was the selfish, "give me the ball!!" Kobe who doesn't get his team involved and make them better.
You win as a team. You lose when you go one on one. Kobe knows better.
They can all but lock up the series with another win in Boston. But it's going to take a team effort, and Kobe's going to have to get the entire team involved. Ironically, he could learn something from Artest. Artest took some really dumb shots in their loss at home, and then played with far more control in Boston.
Watch the game film, Kobe!!!
All of that said, excellent win . . . |
Kobe attacked Boston properly in the 1st, but he was clearly gassed in the 2nd half. Kobe needs to accept that there are moments where he has to relinquish the reins of the offense to somewhat else for a while if only to catch his breath and re-gather himself. The ball should've been in Pau's hands in the 3rd. I'm just glad that Kobe deferred to Fish in the 4th. That showed some maturity.
Still, Kobe played an excellent defensive game, and his relentless (and often head scratching) offensive aggression did play a significant role in limiting Ray Allen. However, I agree that he needs to play a smarter game tomorrow. |
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JTS1
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Joined: 08 Jun 2008
Posts: 5101
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| RCS926 wrote: | | ElginWorthy wrote: | Great win, mostly thanks to Fisher. Kobe was pissing me off. It was like the Kobe from a few years ago, forcing shots, taking bad shots way too often.
He played excellent defense, but he almost cost them the game on offense.
That wasn't the mature Kobe I've come to respect over the years. That was the selfish, "give me the ball!!" Kobe who doesn't get his team involved and make them better.
You win as a team. You lose when you go one on one. Kobe knows better.
They can all but lock up the series with another win in Boston. But it's going to take a team effort, and Kobe's going to have to get the entire team involved. Ironically, he could learn something from Artest. Artest took some really dumb shots in their loss at home, and then played with far more control in Boston.
Watch the game film, Kobe!!!
All of that said, excellent win . . . |
Kobe attacked Boston properly in the 1st, but he was clearly gassed in the 2nd half. Kobe needs to accept that there are moments where he has to relinquish the reins of the offense to somewhat else for a while if only to catch his breath and re-gather himself. The ball should've been in Pau's hands in the 3rd. I'm just glad that Kobe deferred to Fish in the 4th. That showed some maturity.
Still, Kobe played an excellent defensive game, and his relentless (and often head scratching) offensive aggression did play a significant role in limiting Ray Allen. However, I agree that he needs to play a smarter game tomorrow. |
there was a lot of standing around from the team as well. there were times that guys gave kobe the ball w/7-10 seconds to say, 'kobe, bail us out!'
i think what happened at the end of the quarter sums up how kobe made up for his shot not falling, as well as the great d he played all game.
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'How many kids can say growing up that they'll turn pro and play for their favorite team in the world and spend your entire career there? IT'S BEEN A DREAM!'-Kobe Bryant 11.29.15  |
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RCS926
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Joined: 05 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| Luca Brasi wrote: | | Nobody wrote: | | PopcornMachine wrote: | Lakers came out much more focused tonight, as I expected them to.
Effort on defense was much better and the key to the win. And Fish showed what true professional he is.
The offense did stagnate in the 4th. Ball movement stopped and the settling for jumpers started. Mistified by Kobe's shot selection late. And not all were with the clock running out. Just plain unnecessary difficult shots, without any pass first. When the Lakers attacked the hoop, they were scoring. Kobe included.
But they got the win, which is huge. If you think about it, normally the home team wins 2 and loses game 3. Well, I like this 2-1 turn out better. They just nullified their big win and showed that when focused, the Lakers are the better team.
Almost forgot to mention the Lakers secret weapon ... Luke Walton with a big +13.  |
10 of his misses came with the shotclock being at 5 seconds or less.
Agree that some of it was his own doing and I was equally mystified, but the offense as a whole went down the toilet in the 2nd half. 30 total points scored, yikes... |
kobe's shooting and some of his shot-selection were awful, but what separates the great players from the truly special ones, is even though he shot poorly he did other things to help his team win.
if you want to applaud kobe today, applaud his blocks, rebound and steals, and a little coaching he did with fish; it was those two who came up with the 2 to 1 screen and roll, which sprung fish for those 3 amazing shots down the stretch. |
The effort was there and then some. The best thing you can say about Kobe's game last night was that he left it all on the court. |
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RVCdesigns
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Joined: 07 Dec 2009
Posts: 2967
Location: Turlock, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| THANKS DB, DEREK FTW |
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Klone_dd
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Joined: 11 Mar 2002
Posts: 7330
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:06 am Post subject: |
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Wasn't pretty, but very intense. I'm very happy for DFish and very touched by his outpour of emotion at the end of the game. He's usually remembered for one clutch shot, but not for an entire quarter of play. Simply clutch and amazingly gutzy going 1 on 4 for the clincher. Normally, I wince and yell "NOOOO" when he makes a foray to the hoop, but, at that point, even I knew he'd make that shot while getting creamed at the same time. (No flagrant foul on KG for the head shot? hmmm. Of course, Fish was hacked on 2 other shots, too, but why rub it in?)
Great first half and then I felt like the Lakers were working to protect their lead rather than extend it in the 2nd. However, I think a lot of us forget about tired legs following 1 cross-country travel day. It affected RayRay and Drama Queen all game and the Lakers in the 2nd half. I was exhausted just watching the game. Can you imagine playing in it?
Kobe needed the IV or oxygen in the 4th. He's always valiant and determined, but he does need to trust the offense, and work Pau more in the 4th.
All those Khloe masks revitalized LO.
RonRon's biggest play was the knee to Ray's thigh.
Funny to hear Doc's whining about PP's fouls. They were legit fouls whereas Kobe's in game 2 were phantom. |
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Dumhead
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Location: Low Post Rate
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:28 am Post subject: |
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"We got a new universe coming and he's going to control all our universes. We're going to put our universes together" - Metta World Peace |
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Burgundy
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Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 867
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| Sister Golden Hair wrote: | Great write-up. I think the Lakers need to stop walking the ball up the court. This allows Boston to set up their D, establish defenisve position in the post, and force the lakers to start their offense in badf position with the clock ticking. A lot of bad shoots result from the offense not even getting going until 10 seconds have elapsed.
Just get it up and start attacking. It doesn't mean you have to heave early threes. Tjink of it this way: you want Boston to move their feet as much as possible, because by the 4th quarter, they will be gassed. |
Absolutely. I think the Lakers did a good job of this in the first half, but they looked tired in the second half, and I think that's why you saw a lot of walking the ball up and not getting the offense started soon enough.
The root of "Kobe ball" is the team not getting their offense set up until there are 12 or 14 seconds left on the shot clock (and by that time, Boston's D is loaded for bear), they can't get a good post entry look, so they toss it to Kobe with 6 seconds left, and hope he can create a look for himself.
I think there were maybe 1 or 2 instances where Kobe actually took a bad shot (meaning he took a bad shot early in the shot clock). Most of them were bail-outs.
This means the Lakers should be advancing the ball with the pass (rather than walking it up). The longer it takes them to get into their offense, the futher Pau gets pushed out of the post. I mean, the guy was catching passes at the 3 point line.
So I don't think the Lakers are ignoring the post (or Pau), it's just not open, because they're not getting into their sets quickly enough. |
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JTS1
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Joined: 08 Jun 2008
Posts: 5101
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| Burgundy wrote: | | Sister Golden Hair wrote: | Great write-up. I think the Lakers need to stop walking the ball up the court. This allows Boston to set up their D, establish defenisve position in the post, and force the lakers to start their offense in badf position with the clock ticking. A lot of bad shoots result from the offense not even getting going until 10 seconds have elapsed.
Just get it up and start attacking. It doesn't mean you have to heave early threes. Tjink of it this way: you want Boston to move their feet as much as possible, because by the 4th quarter, they will be gassed. |
Absolutely. I think the Lakers did a good job of this in the first half, but they looked tired in the second half, and I think that's why you saw a lot of walking the ball up and not getting the offense started soon enough.
The root of "Kobe ball" is the team not getting their offense set up until there are 12 or 14 seconds left on the shot clock (and by that time, Boston's D is loaded for bear), they can't get a good post entry look, so they toss it to Kobe with 6 seconds left, and hope he can create a look for himself.
I think there were maybe 1 or 2 instances where Kobe actually took a bad shot (meaning he took a bad shot early in the shot clock). Most of them were bail-outs.
This means the Lakers should be advancing the ball with the pass (rather than walking it up). The longer it takes them to get into their offense, the futher Pau gets pushed out of the post. I mean, the guy was catching passes at the 3 point line.
So I don't think the Lakers are ignoring the post (or Pau), it's just not open, because they're not getting into their sets quickly enough. |
this has shades of 04 for me. i don't like remembering 04!
phil, fix this crap and fix it fast! 
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'How many kids can say growing up that they'll turn pro and play for their favorite team in the world and spend your entire career there? IT'S BEEN A DREAM!'-Kobe Bryant 11.29.15 |
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Wilt
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Posts: 13741
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | He worked off the left wing again, took contact but still banked in the jumper (should have been an And-1). Excellent repost pass to Pau who banked over Davis for a rare post score (more of that, please). Fish caught the Celtics sleeping while pushing the ball up and aggressively attacking, he scored an And-1 layup getting clobbered with 48 seconds left, he made the FT. Ball game. |
Our pick and roll with Fisher and Kobe there made the difference at the end. The Celtics didn't expect it, rotated late every single time, and didn't want to switch that pick. Artest had wide open cutting lanes every time we ran that play (his inexperience in the offense was noticeable there), but he instead chose to slide to the corner for a possible three if Fisher passes it to him. If the Lakers run this again, the Celtics will adjust to it. They can trap Fisher, and rotate to Kobe. They can switch. Or they can rotate faster and force Fisher to pass to the weakside. Artest must be ready to free himself for an easy shot. There's a lot of space to cut underneath the basket. I hope the coaching staff sees that.
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sec 110
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks DB! |
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PopcornMachine
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Joined: 19 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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I would like to reiterate the point that this win was huge!
I don't recall them being 2-1 in a finals quite this way. I was very disappointed that they lost game 2, but if they're going to be 2-1, this was very much a better scenario.
Losing at home and giving up home court is bad, but immediately turning around and taking the first game at Boston is very gratifying. They not only stole their thunder, they trampled it, burned it, pissed on it, farted in it's general direction... 
Now they just need to focus for two more games. If it's the next two, that would be very sweet.
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Fleur-de-Lis
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | Quote: | | He worked off the left wing again, took contact but still banked in the jumper (should have been an And-1). Excellent repost pass to Pau who banked over Davis for a rare post score (more of that, please). Fish caught the Celtics sleeping while pushing the ball up and aggressively attacking, he scored an And-1 layup getting clobbered with 48 seconds left, he made the FT. Ball game. |
Our pick and roll with Fisher and Kobe there made the difference at the end. The Celtics didn't expect it, rotated late every single time, and didn't want to switch that pick. Artest had wide open cutting lanes every time we ran that play (his inexperience in the offense was noticeable there), but he instead chose to slide to the corner for a possible three if Fisher passes it to him. If the Lakers run this again, the Celtics will adjust to it. They can trap Fisher, and rotate to Kobe. They can switch. Or they can rotate faster and force Fisher to pass to the weakside. Artest must be ready to free himself for an easy shot. There's a lot of space to cut underneath the basket. I hope the coaching staff sees that. |
Lots of space to cut, but we're not sending the cutters. Both Odom and Ron could benefit here.
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Winning recipe: Effort, Intensity, Focus, Composure, Patience, Execution, Attention to detail, Discipline & Persistence |
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JTS1
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Joined: 08 Jun 2008
Posts: 5101
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| PopcornMachine wrote: |
I would like to reiterate the point that this win was huge!
I don't recall them being 2-1 in a finals quite this way. I was very disappointed that they lost game 2, but if they're going to be 2-1, this was very much a better scenario.
Losing at home and giving up home court is bad, but immediately turning around and taking the first game at Boston is very gratifying. They not only stole their thunder, they trampled it, burned it, pissed on it, farted in it's general direction...
Now they just need to focus for two more games. If it's the next two, that would be very sweet. |
how piquant! LOL
and i can't even remember the last time i got use THAT particular word!
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'How many kids can say growing up that they'll turn pro and play for their favorite team in the world and spend your entire career there? IT'S BEEN A DREAM!'-Kobe Bryant 11.29.15 |
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