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B-Scott Starting Rotation
Joined: 22 Dec 2005 Posts: 418
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:03 am Post subject: Did we make a mistake and Trade away to much Talent? |
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Jumaine jones
Caron butler
Chucky atkins
Kareem rush
I know Rush is struggling,but keep in mind,he doesnt have anyone in Charlotte who draws double teams. So he has to create every shot for himself. In LA he would get more open looks because of Lamar and Kobe. Jumaine jones isnt a great offensive player i admit,but he brings energy,and spot up shooting off the bench. Something Luke walton or a Devon green simply do not. Chucky atkins i agree is not a starter,but what about off the bench. When Sasha is bricking those wide open 3 pointers,we could have atkins off the bench who is capable of catching fire,and hitting you for 20 points. Caron butler- Probably the biggest mistake of them all. We have absolutely no offensive options at times. It's painful to watch.
C Mihm/ Bynum
PF Lamar/Turiaff
SF Devon george/ Jumaine jones
G Caron butler/Kareem rush
G Kobe/ Chucky atkins /Sasha/smush
Would that have been better? Last yr,we lost our coach,had no direction. no system in place on defense or offense. Maybe had we kept these guys,had a better system,maybe we would have played better with these guys. Plus having a healthy Lamar and Kobe. Kobe being better this yr then last yr in 4th quarters because Lamar handles the ball more.
We could use Caron's ability to attack the basket,and get to the free throw line. |
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JUST-MING Retired Number
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 44144
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:08 am Post subject: |
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The only player that shouldn't have been traded was Jumaine Jones. Rush was shooting in the low 30's%, just like Puke, Crap and Gump this season. Just horrible draft picks from your lovely Phil and Mitch Kupchak. Atkins with the turnstyle defense, had to go. Butler with the turnstyle defense, had to go. Nope. We made good moves, the only one I regret is JJ for a #2 pick some time in the near future. We need his scoring off the bench. Odom can't play power forward... turnstyle defense in the post. |
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hiline Starting Rotation
Joined: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 112 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:12 am Post subject: |
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VonWafer&KobeBryantFa Starting Rotation
Joined: 22 Jul 2005 Posts: 763 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:14 am Post subject: |
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Of course we did. What od you think? |
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qreus-76 Starting Rotation
Joined: 21 Oct 2004 Posts: 384
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:17 am Post subject: |
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wouldashouldacoulda. |
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LakerFan4Lyfe Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Sep 2005 Posts: 761
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:20 am Post subject: |
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we also made the mistake of not getting enough talent for shnaq......
WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THIS.....?
someone lock this thread |
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angel Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2004 Posts: 14226 Location: city of angels
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:26 am Post subject: |
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The results of those trades was Profit, Kwame, and three #2 picks including Ronny Turiaf. The other 2 #2 picks are Charlotte's in 2007 and 2008. Picks at the beginning of the second round are usually keepers. They tend to be players who were projected in the first round, but slipped. _________________ "Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
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Manu Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2003 Posts: 3603
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:31 am Post subject: |
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We knew Kwame was a project. He has his flashes, he needs consistency (and glue on on his hands) But, if in 30mpg, he can average 12/8 (of which he's a tlike 7/6) then I'd be find with the trade for Caron. We just didn't have room on our roster for another SF, and getting a big for a scoring SF is a good deal. |
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Ank Star Player
Joined: 17 May 2005 Posts: 1043 Location: New York, NY
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:41 am Post subject: |
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angel wrote: | The results of those trades was Profit, Kwame, and three #2 picks including Ronny Turiaf. The other 2 #2 picks are Charlotte's in 2007 and 2008. Picks at the beginning of the second round are usually keepers. They tend to be players who were projected in the first round, but slipped. |
We have made a series of bad trades that has led to significantly less talent and put us in a very difficult position. The truth, however, is that with the 2007 plan, it doesn't matter that much. We would not have been able to give Caron an extension he deserved.
Jumaine Jones was a bad trade.
Shaq shouldn't have saddle us with Grant, a long term death contract and should have gotten us Wade. Butler and Shaq would have played well together too. Originally, I agreed with Mitch that letting Shaq leave for nothing would be very bad. In this case, however, with the pull the Lakers have, having him leave for nothing woul have been better than this.
The Kwame trade was bad too. We took a tradeable piece in Butler and received an untradeable piece in Kwame. We should have waited for deadline talent. We downgraded talent several times. |
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Ank Star Player
Joined: 17 May 2005 Posts: 1043 Location: New York, NY
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:43 am Post subject: |
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Manu wrote: | We knew Kwame was a project. He has his flashes, he needs consistency (and glue on on his hands) But, if in 30mpg, he can average 12/8 (of which he's a tlike 7/6) then I'd be find with the trade for Caron. We just didn't have room on our roster for another SF, and getting a big for a scoring SF is a good deal. |
If we had waited, we would have done better. With the 2007 plan, we want certian types f pieces. Expensive untradeable pieces aren't the right kind. We want cheap talent we can move along with Odom to make trades for Lebron and sign and trades for Bosh etc. |
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angel Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2004 Posts: 14226 Location: city of angels
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:44 am Post subject: |
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No Odom would have been better? I doubt that. _________________ "Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58428
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:45 am Post subject: |
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I don't think all of them were either good trades or bad trades. There's some other things one must consider.
The Kwame/Caron trade was a bad one in regards to player level. Caron is easily a better NBA player than Kwame. But Caron is also a SF in a league where there's 10-15 guys his level or better. At the same time, Caron was on his last year. Kwame took a contract that was 2 years guaranteed and 3 years in total.
So you got rid of two players on 1 year deals that weren't going to be re-signed for a bigman that fit the cap plan.
This roster is based on the 2007 plan. You can not hate on the GM for the roster without taking into account the 2007 plan.
If you are against the 2007 plan - Jerry Buss is the guy that wants that more than anyone. So you better take that up with him before you did with the GM. The GM is doing the smartest thing financially and roster wise for the 2007 plan. If you follow the plan, all the moves make sense. If you hate the plan, you will absolutely hate the moves.
Classic case of winning now vs winning later. There's a reason most teams don't sell out when they're rebuilding. Only the hardcore fans deal with that. The rest just fan the team when they're on top.
Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Freakout Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 11796 Location: WV
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:47 am Post subject: |
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Should kept Caron and used the MLE on a 4. Even if it was just to rent Caron for a year it would have been better than having Kwame for 2 (yes I hate him that much).
Marc Jackson could have been had for cheap and could give us Kwame's production.
Sign Steve Blake to the same deal he got from Portland.........
Last edited by Freakout on Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58428
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:49 am Post subject: |
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Freakout wrote: | Should kept Caron and used the MLE on a 4. Even if it was just to rent Caron for a year it would have been better than having Kwame for 2. |
I think I said that in the summer when I first heard of the trade. Argued bigtime with JD over it.
I dunno. Who could have seen some of the things that happenned - with Artest coming up and all the rest of the things.
I mean noone expected Kwame to be as bad as he is. I mean I think even the anti-trade guys like myself, didn't think he'd be a 6/6 player .... Even I thought he'd be atleast a Chris Mihm 10/7 kind of player. |
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Freakout Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 11796 Location: WV
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | Freakout wrote: | Should kept Caron and used the MLE on a 4. Even if it was just to rent Caron for a year it would have been better than having Kwame for 2. |
I think I said that in the summer when I first heard of the trade. Argued bigtime with JD over it.
I dunno. Who could have seen some of the things that happenned - with Artest coming up and all the rest of the things.
I mean noone expected Kwame to be as bad as he is. I mean I think even the anti-trade guys like myself, didn't think he'd be a 6/6 player .... Even I thought he'd be atleast a Chris Mihm 10/7 kind of player. |
I know it's useless looking back but this lineup would have been nice,
1 - Blake, Smush
2 - Kobe, Caron, Sasha
3 - Odom, Caron, JJ (who we could have resigned I bet)
4 - Jackson, Odom, Cook, Turiaf
5 - Mihm, Jackson, Bynum
Shipped George to Philly for Marc. |
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Crazy LA Fan14 Starting Rotation
Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 541 Location: City of Angels
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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Yes. No doubt we should have kept guys like Butler,Jones and Rush. _________________ A Clipper/Laker Fan
--------D12, Livy, Iggy, O.J. Mayo, Randy Foye & Rudy Gay-------- |
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lakeshow03 Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2005 Posts: 3087
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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the guy that is all for trading bynum,is saying we traded away too much talent? |
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bambam Star Player
Joined: 03 Jul 2003 Posts: 9013
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: Did we make a mistake and Trade away to much Talent? |
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B-Scott wrote: | Jumaine jones
Caron butler
Chucky atkins
Kareem rush
I know Rush is struggling,but keep in mind,he doesnt have anyone in Charlotte who draws double teams. So he has to create every shot for himself. In LA he would get more open looks because of Lamar and Kobe. Jumaine jones isnt a great offensive player i admit,but he brings energy,and spot up shooting off the bench. Something Luke walton or a Devon green simply do not. Chucky atkins i agree is not a starter,but what about off the bench. When Sasha is bricking those wide open 3 pointers,we could have atkins off the bench who is capable of catching fire,and hitting you for 20 points. Caron butler- Probably the biggest mistake of them all. We have absolutely no offensive options at times. It's painful to watch.
C Mihm/ Bynum
PF Lamar/Turiaff
SF Devon george/ Jumaine jones
G Caron butler/Kareem rush
G Kobe/ Chucky atkins /Sasha/smush
Would that have been better? Last yr,we lost our coach,had no direction. no system in place on defense or offense. Maybe had we kept these guys,had a better system,maybe we would have played better with these guys. Plus having a healthy Lamar and Kobe. Kobe being better this yr then last yr in 4th quarters because Lamar handles the ball more.
We could use Caron's ability to attack the basket,and get to the free throw line. |
that team is worse than this years.
odom @ PF = lottery |
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Crazy LA Fan14 Starting Rotation
Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 541 Location: City of Angels
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: Did we make a mistake and Trade away to much Talent? |
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bambam wrote: | B-Scott wrote: | Jumaine jones
Caron butler
Chucky atkins
Kareem rush
I know Rush is struggling,but keep in mind,he doesnt have anyone in Charlotte who draws double teams. So he has to create every shot for himself. In LA he would get more open looks because of Lamar and Kobe. Jumaine jones isnt a great offensive player i admit,but he brings energy,and spot up shooting off the bench. Something Luke walton or a Devon green simply do not. Chucky atkins i agree is not a starter,but what about off the bench. When Sasha is bricking those wide open 3 pointers,we could have atkins off the bench who is capable of catching fire,and hitting you for 20 points. Caron butler- Probably the biggest mistake of them all. We have absolutely no offensive options at times. It's painful to watch.
C Mihm/ Bynum
PF Lamar/Turiaff
SF Devon george/ Jumaine jones
G Caron butler/Kareem rush
G Kobe/ Chucky atkins /Sasha/smush
Would that have been better? Last yr,we lost our coach,had no direction. no system in place on defense or offense. Maybe had we kept these guys,had a better system,maybe we would have played better with these guys. Plus having a healthy Lamar and Kobe. Kobe being better this yr then last yr in 4th quarters because Lamar handles the ball more.
We could use Caron's ability to attack the basket,and get to the free throw line. |
that team is worse than this years.
odom @ PF = lottery |
I wouldnt say so..Kwame has done NOTHING. I would have kept those guys and at least have a good offensive group. Right now we have nothing. _________________ A Clipper/Laker Fan
--------D12, Livy, Iggy, O.J. Mayo, Randy Foye & Rudy Gay-------- |
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bambam Star Player
Joined: 03 Jul 2003 Posts: 9013
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | Freakout wrote: | Should kept Caron and used the MLE on a 4. Even if it was just to rent Caron for a year it would have been better than having Kwame for 2. |
I think I said that in the summer when I first heard of the trade. Argued bigtime with JD over it.
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what did D. Marshall sign w/ clevland for? he would have been a good player to sign under that senario.
Sure would space the floor for kobe like it does for lebron.
id just like to see guys that compliment kobes game.... |
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bambam Star Player
Joined: 03 Jul 2003 Posts: 9013
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: Did we make a mistake and Trade away to much Talent? |
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Crazy LA Fan14 wrote: | bambam wrote: | B-Scott wrote: | Jumaine jones
Caron butler
Chucky atkins
Kareem rush
I know Rush is struggling,but keep in mind,he doesnt have anyone in Charlotte who draws double teams. So he has to create every shot for himself. In LA he would get more open looks because of Lamar and Kobe. Jumaine jones isnt a great offensive player i admit,but he brings energy,and spot up shooting off the bench. Something Luke walton or a Devon green simply do not. Chucky atkins i agree is not a starter,but what about off the bench. When Sasha is bricking those wide open 3 pointers,we could have atkins off the bench who is capable of catching fire,and hitting you for 20 points. Caron butler- Probably the biggest mistake of them all. We have absolutely no offensive options at times. It's painful to watch.
C Mihm/ Bynum
PF Lamar/Turiaff
SF Devon george/ Jumaine jones
G Caron butler/Kareem rush
G Kobe/ Chucky atkins /Sasha/smush
Would that have been better? Last yr,we lost our coach,had no direction. no system in place on defense or offense. Maybe had we kept these guys,had a better system,maybe we would have played better with these guys. Plus having a healthy Lamar and Kobe. Kobe being better this yr then last yr in 4th quarters because Lamar handles the ball more.
We could use Caron's ability to attack the basket,and get to the free throw line. |
that team is worse than this years.
odom @ PF = lottery |
I wouldnt say so..Kwame has done NOTHING. I would have kept those guys and at least have a good offensive group. Right now we have nothing. |
kwame prevents the team from having to double when the ball is passed to the other teams 4.
Lamar needs that against almost any 4. He has no leg strength to deny position, was in foul trouble almost every game all game.
you cant win that way. |
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