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LkrsOvrMia Star Player
Joined: 27 Oct 2005 Posts: 1514 Location: Chicago Burbs
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:15 am Post subject: Hollinger's take on Bynum... |
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Andrew Bynum, Los Angeles Lakers: Raw teenage center intrigues with tools but has long, long way to go.
Thoughts? Give me more than just "Hollinger's an arse" or "It's BSPN after all."
Go Lakers! _________________ I recall a day when being a fan of the most storied franchise was a feeling of community. At the end of a day it (LG) should be a "For 'em!!!!!!!!!"
Go Lakers! |
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rwongega Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 20510 Location: UCLA -> NY
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:21 am Post subject: |
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He's got the tools. He still needs to add a little more strength since he looks kind of soft. Not Eddy Curry soft but soft nonetheless. He needs to stop following Kwame and start driving hard and fast to the basket. I don't think he has a very long way to go but he still needs some conditioning to the NBA game especially. |
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NoHarmNoFoul Star Player
Joined: 19 Jun 2003 Posts: 1656 Location: Shanghai, China
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Obvious, not insightful. _________________ ***************************************
"What will you all do when Mitch has rebuilt this team?
Who will you aim your irrational anger at then?"
-PopcornMachine |
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J.C. Smith Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 12699
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:23 am Post subject: |
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I think it's fair to say he's a long way from reaching his potential. He's not ready for prime time yet. I would hope that next year we can get a solid 15 minutes game out of him though. Hopefully he's ready to start getting real minutes by his third season. I think a lot of people on these forums want to thrust Bynum out there and while he plays hard and doesn't really hurt us out there, it takes all high school kids a couple of years to really be able to handle themselves, and Andrew didn't even have much high school experience. Maybe next year he can give us 6 points 4 rebounds. By his third year maybe he'll give us 10 and 7 and hopefulyl by his fourth season he can start realizing hi potential. He just turned 18 though, he's still growing. Like everyone else I hope he can mature quickly, but I think anyone who is expecting big things this year or next is setting themselves up for disappointment. |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58446
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:30 am Post subject: |
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We all knew he didn't have a good above the rim game.
The fact is, he needs to stop playing like a role player. Get the ball in the post and create a shot himself.
Anyway, it's going to take Bynum atleast 1-2 years to get better at converting on those rebounds.
Atleast he grabs rebounds. I mean 5 boards in 10 minutes? 3 offensive? That's excellent. |
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MDMO49 Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Dec 2004 Posts: 340
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:36 am Post subject: |
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After watching the game last nite, I can add a few more things about Bynum.
I knew after watching him initially that he plays the game slow, and he's just a slow big man, but that's normal for a lot of 7 footers.
Let's just say he's not going to be anywhere near the dominant 7 footer Amare Stoudamire is, nor will have the impact Amare had as a rookie.
But he definitely has some tools. Right now b/c he's young he's still learning the game, that's why he got blocked by pretty much EVERYONE in that Memphis game.
But he did play some solid defense, (not against Pau), and grab some impressive offensive rebounds.
I think Bynum has the ability to be a solid NBA center in this league. Probably not an upper tier player but a better Chris Mihm, and if he improves on his low post game, maybe be an effective player down low. |
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Zhengi Star Player
Joined: 06 Sep 2004 Posts: 6445
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:42 am Post subject: |
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^^ Just a better Chris Mihm? No way, Bynum's potential is higher than that. The kid is definitely raw right now, but he's showing that he has a good learning curve and desire to hone his skills. Once he gets more experienced, we can safely say that he'd be a whole lot better than Mihm. _________________ I'm like a Hadouken, down-right Fierce! |
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sirronstuff Starting Rotation
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 643 Location: TX
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:46 am Post subject: |
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He is young. In a couple of years he won't get swatted under the basket very easily by guys like Pau Gasol.
We can't expect too much. He's hardly played organized ball. 5 years, we might have a fairly consistent player. Until then, flashes of amazing followed by Kwame type games is as good as it's gonna get. |
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sirronstuff Starting Rotation
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 643 Location: TX
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:49 am Post subject: |
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NoHarmNoFoul wrote: | Obvious, not insightful. |
Laker Forum _________________ Laker GIFs, Memes, and Emoticons
Last edited by sirronstuff on Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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LkrsOvrMia Star Player
Joined: 27 Oct 2005 Posts: 1514 Location: Chicago Burbs
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:51 am Post subject: |
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sirronstuff wrote: | He is young. In a couple of years he won't get swatted under the basket very easily by guys like Pau Gasol.
We can't expect too much. He's hardly played organized ball. 5 years, we might have a fairly consistent player. Until then, flashes of amazing followed by Kwame type games is as good as it's gonna get. |
Pau has nothing to do with it guy.
Anyone would get swatted if they choose to show the damn ball so early.
Go Andrew! Go Lakers!! _________________ I recall a day when being a fan of the most storied franchise was a feeling of community. At the end of a day it (LG) should be a "For 'em!!!!!!!!!"
Go Lakers! |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58446
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:54 am Post subject: |
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Bynum's one low post shot that he created for himself through a post up - was good.
The rest were all putback attempts or trying to finish a play off a cut.
And just because he's not some ferocious dunker, doesn't mean he can be a stoppable scorer.
What he needs is to be set up and allowed to post up to create shots for himself. He does that very well for his age.
The rest of his game - is very, very raw. |
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Laker7 Star Player
Joined: 24 Feb 2003 Posts: 6416 Location: Past left field
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:09 am Post subject: |
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IMO he has the tools to be a better ceter than Mihm (as a minimum) and the potential to be as great as Hakeem Olajuwon (depends on desire and ability to continually improve). Right now I am expecting a Mutumbo in his prime (defense, shot blocking and rebounding) with a slightly better offensive game due to Cap's teaching. Only time will tell. _________________ Darvin Ham is an idiot! |
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MDMO49 Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Dec 2004 Posts: 340
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:20 am Post subject: |
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Zhengi wrote: | ^^ Just a better Chris Mihm? No way, Bynum's potential is higher than that. The kid is definitely raw right now, but he's showing that he has a good learning curve and desire to hone his skills. Once he gets more experienced, we can safely say that he'd be a whole lot better than Mihm. |
Mihm was taken 7th overall, Bynum 10th. Not to say that draft position determines how good you are, but great players play that way immediately. Bynum has shown NOTHING to warrant that he'll be far superior to Chris Mihm. He has a bigger overall body but he's less athletic than Mihm, and Bynum plays extremely slow. He's NOT going to develop speed in the next 2-3 years, that's how he plays. Footwork, fundamentals, and strength will improve his overall game.
There's NO way Bynum will be anywhere NEAR Hakeem Olajuwon. Or Ewing, or DRob... |
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Mjr. Pwnage Starting Rotation
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 472 Location: La Tierra De Los Gauchos
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:27 am Post subject: |
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MDMO49 wrote: | Not to say that draft position determines how good you are, but great players play that way immediately. |
Jermaine O'Neal? A parallel example. Bynum may be never as polished as O'Neal offensively, but he didn't play for 3-4 years, AT ALL, and is now a cornerstone of a franchise.
Ben Wallace? So underappreciated early in his career, so NOT a force, that he was let go by two teams.
I only mention those two, because, IMO, Bynum projects to be a hybrid of both. MUCH of Big Ben's defensive presence with, hopefully, about 80% of J O'Neal's offensive game. _________________ You tryin' to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball? |
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MDMO49 Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Dec 2004 Posts: 340
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:43 am Post subject: |
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TG711 wrote: | MDMO49 wrote: | Not to say that draft position determines how good you are, but great players play that way immediately. |
Jermaine O'Neal? A parallel example. Bynum may be never as polished as O'Neal offensively, but he didn't play for 3-4 years, AT ALL, and is now a cornerstone of a franchise.
Ben Wallace? So underappreciated early in his career, so NOT a force, that he was let go by two teams.
I only mention those two, because, IMO, Bynum projects to be a hybrid of both. MUCH of Big Ben's defensive presence with, hopefully, about 80% of J O'Neal's offensive game. |
Magic Johnson
Hakeem Olajuwon
Michael Jordan
Tim Duncan
Allen Iverson
Kevin Garnett
Ray Allen
Dirk Nowtizki
Larry Bird
Charles Barkley
Patrick Ewing
David Robinson
Dominique Wilkins
Lebron James
Carmelo Anthony
Chris Bosh
Amare Stoudamire
Dwayne Wade
Shaquille O'Neal
do I really need to keep going?
Hakim Warrick played just as effectively if not better in fewer minutes last night. You think the Grizz fans are hyping up Warrick? I do know that he's a higher flyer than Bynum.
The ability to recognize talent isn't absolute, and the ability to realize potential isn't either. At this stage of their careers its easy to say Sasha is the next Manu or Bynum is the next Shaq. But in reality neither are true. Don't overhype players b/c they are lakers.
The Lakers are secure with a franchise center, but he's not going to be a player like JO... and I think his offensive game is better than Ben Wallace's. 15 pts 10 rebounds would be a pleasant surprise, 12-7 is more likely. |
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Mjr. Pwnage Starting Rotation
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 472 Location: La Tierra De Los Gauchos
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:53 am Post subject: |
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MDMO49 wrote: | TG711 wrote: | MDMO49 wrote: | Not to say that draft position determines how good you are, but great players play that way immediately. |
Jermaine O'Neal? A parallel example. Bynum may be never as polished as O'Neal offensively, but he didn't play for 3-4 years, AT ALL, and is now a cornerstone of a franchise.
Ben Wallace? So underappreciated early in his career, so NOT a force, that he was let go by two teams.
I only mention those two, because, IMO, Bynum projects to be a hybrid of both. MUCH of Big Ben's defensive presence with, hopefully, about 80% of J O'Neal's offensive game. |
Magic Johnson
Hakeem Olajuwon
Michael Jordan
Tim Duncan
Allen Iverson
Kevin Garnett
Ray Allen
Dirk Nowtizki
Larry Bird
Charles Barkley
Patrick Ewing
David Robinson
Dominique Wilkins
Lebron James
Carmelo Anthony
Chris Bosh
Amare Stoudamire
Dwayne Wade
Shaquille O'Neal
do I really need to keep going?
Hakim Warrick played just as effectively if not better in fewer minutes last night. You think the Grizz fans are hyping up Warrick? I do know that he's a higher flyer than Bynum.
The ability to recognize talent isn't absolute, and the ability to realize potential isn't either. At this stage of their careers its easy to say Sasha is the next Manu or Bynum is the next Shaq. But in reality neither are true. Don't overhype players b/c they are lakers.
The Lakers are secure with a franchise center, but he's not going to be a player like JO... and I think his offensive game is better than Ben Wallace's. 15 pts 10 rebounds would be a pleasant surprise, 12-7 is more likely. |
I don't disagree that most great players play great right away. I'm not over-hyping Bynum. I said 80% of J-O's offsensive output. That's 17 PPG. Overhype is saying 25 and 12. 17 and 10, with almost 2 bpg, is optimistic, but not over-hype.
Projecting 7rpg for Bynum is UNDER-hype. Just not realistic. Given minutes, he will average 10 RPG. He has askill for getting to the ball. It's his offensive game that is in question. But 7 RPG... how many did he have last night, in how many minutes?
It's easy to ovver-hype his offensive potential. But boards and defense? The sky is the limit. _________________ You tryin' to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?
Last edited by Mjr. Pwnage on Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:59 am; edited 2 times in total |
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angel Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2004 Posts: 14226 Location: city of angels
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:56 am Post subject: |
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Bynum was 17 when the Lakers drafted him. He's still growing into his body. He's supposed to be an inch taller from the time they drafted him. I don't expect his muscles to be developed like a mature player. He's finally getting some top level coaching. He out-played Curry in N.Y. The kid has the tools to become very good. He's already ahead of most players who are 22 and 23 years old. _________________ "Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
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rwongega Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 20510 Location: UCLA -> NY
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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He's got raw potential definitely and it all rests on whether he can convert those flashes into consistent production. Kareem's done a good job with Bynum and I hope the FO signs Kareem to an assistant job sometime in the future. There is no doubt that Bynum can be better than Hakeem, Ewing, or at the least a Mutombo. With Kareem coaching him in offensive and defensive aspects, I think he can reach those expectations. He certainly was faster than Shaq. |
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PhillyDoc Star Player
Joined: 12 Nov 2004 Posts: 1034
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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He has the tools to develop to be exactly what the Lakers need, a defensive minded 15 point 10 rebound center with a 2-3 blocks a game. |
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MDMO49 Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Dec 2004 Posts: 340
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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10 rebounds a game easy? Do you know that only 7 guys in the league are averaging that this year?
Oh, and one of them is in their 2nd year and OUT OF HIGHSCHOOL. Dwight Howard is leading the league in rebounding, and last year was very impressive on the boards as a rookie... and how old was he exactly? 25?
angel: While he might be ahead of players 22-23, he's still behind the other first round high school centers drafted in the last couple of years (Amare Stoudamire & Dwight Howard).
Lastly, the NBA likes to reward the best rookies of this class with a game. So let's give the props and praise that actually deserve it. The ones doing it on the court. Not the ones riding the pine.
Andrew Bogut
Luther Head
Channing Frye
Danny Granger
Sarunas Jaskiviecius
Chris Paul
Nate Robinson
Charlie Villaneuva
Deron Williams
(props to NY for finding two good players in the draft, and we all know Larry Brown loves playing rookies, cough - Darko) |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58446
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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Guys.
Did you not hear the Lakers when they said he was very raw and that he had no idea of how an "above the rim" game was supposed to be played ...
The fact that he's getting offensive boards with ease while still not completely sound at positioning under the basket - tells you that he can be a very good rebounder.
I don't think Bynum would ever be a Shaq or Amare. Those guys have too much power and can dunk the ball like no other bigman. But is he not worth the investment just because he's not a power dunker/finsher?
That kind of thinking is why many overlook Tim Duncan ....
BUT, He has the ability to be a combination of a low post finnesse scorer (Like a Mihm) and some power moves (like an Eddy Curry). If he can even become a combo of Mihm and Curry - he would be a top 5 Center in the NBA and an impact player.
That's just the way it is with big's/C's in the NBA |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58446
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | angel: While he might be ahead of players 22-23, he's still behind the other first round high school centers drafted in the last couple of years (Amare Stoudamire & Dwight Howard). |
Both were older.
Compare Bynum to them at 20 and 19.
Which means 2 to 1 years from now.
Though I agree. Howard and Amare were better. No arguments. They had more power and were far more NBA ready.
But that alone doesn't mean Bynum can't get significantly better over the years. As long as he improves year to year until he is 21 - he will be fine.
The thing with big's - many of them become complacent or lazy after a few years. They stop caring about the game and just want to be paid. That's the biggest factor in stopping player developpment. You look and Kandi, Kwame and even Curry. All of them showed signs that they could be elite at one point or another. Even Tyson Chandler since he's been paid isn't impressing Chicago as much anymore.
I don't see that in Bynum as of now ....
Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MDMO49 Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Dec 2004 Posts: 340
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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rwongega wrote: | He's got raw potential definitely and it all rests on whether he can convert those flashes into consistent production. Kareem's done a good job with Bynum and I hope the FO signs Kareem to an assistant job sometime in the future. There is no doubt that Bynum can be better than Hakeem, Ewing, or at the least a Mutombo. With Kareem coaching him in offensive and defensive aspects, I think he can reach those expectations. He certainly was faster than Shaq. |
The sarcasm was quite funny. On a side note, I'm better than Kobe Bryant! |
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LakerEric Star Player
Joined: 03 May 2002 Posts: 7193 Location: Vegas
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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MDMO49 wrote: | TG711 wrote: | MDMO49 wrote: | Not to say that draft position determines how good you are, but great players play that way immediately. |
Jermaine O'Neal? A parallel example. Bynum may be never as polished as O'Neal offensively, but he didn't play for 3-4 years, AT ALL, and is now a cornerstone of a franchise.
Ben Wallace? So underappreciated early in his career, so NOT a force, that he was let go by two teams.
I only mention those two, because, IMO, Bynum projects to be a hybrid of both. MUCH of Big Ben's defensive presence with, hopefully, about 80% of J O'Neal's offensive game. |
Magic Johnson
Hakeem Olajuwon
Michael Jordan
Tim Duncan
Allen Iverson
Kevin Garnett
Ray Allen
Dirk Nowtizki
Larry Bird
Charles Barkley
Patrick Ewing
David Robinson
Dominique Wilkins
Lebron James
Carmelo Anthony
Chris Bosh
Amare Stoudamire
Dwayne Wade
Shaquille O'Neal
do I really need to keep going?
Hakim Warrick played just as effectively if not better in fewer minutes last night. You think the Grizz fans are hyping up Warrick? I do know that he's a higher flyer than Bynum.
The ability to recognize talent isn't absolute, and the ability to realize potential isn't either. At this stage of their careers its easy to say Sasha is the next Manu or Bynum is the next Shaq. But in reality neither are true. Don't overhype players b/c they are lakers.
The Lakers are secure with a franchise center, but he's not going to be a player like JO... and I think his offensive game is better than Ben Wallace's. 15 pts 10 rebounds would be a pleasant surprise, 12-7 is more likely. |
Can you keep in mind Bynum's age??? _________________ Do you believe it now, Trinity? - Morpheous |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | There is no doubt that Bynum can be better than Hakeem, Ewing, or at the least a Mutombo. With Kareem coaching him in offensive and defensive aspects, I think he can reach those expectations. He certainly was faster than Shaq. |
There we go again with the comparisons of the greatest centers in the NBA of All Time...
Projecting Bynum to be a 16ppg 11rpg 2bpg player isn't underhype, it's a realistic goal that he can reach. If he surpasses that, then all for the better, but really, I don't understand all the hype. I get he has great physical tools, very good hoop IQ and a great learning curve, but where's the foundation of skills to warrant the comparisons against the elite?
I see a guy who could be a very good 2-way player. He'll board. He'll swat and rotate on defense. He'll be a solid post presence. Can you count on him taking 20 shots a game? Does he have enough diversity to create high percentage shots for those 20 shots a game?
I'd be FAR more convinced when he has the basics down and keeps up the progress of working without the ball... offensive rebounds, boxing out, denying position, team rotation on defense, individual defense.
Once he has that, the franchise potential may be realized. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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