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slavavov Star Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8415 Location: Santa Monica
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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activeverb wrote: | slavavov wrote: |
On the other hand, Shaq averaged no less than 26 points and 10.7 rebounds from 1993-2003. |
Just a tip: If you want to make a stats argument, don't use odd, cherrypicked numbers like 10.7 rebounds per game that isn't a standard that anyone uses for anything.
Rather than being impressive, it just makes it look like you need to really twist the numbers to make them come out in your favor. |
The reason I used that number is because it was his lowest rebound average during those years. _________________ Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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slavavov wrote: | activeverb wrote: | slavavov wrote: |
On the other hand, Shaq averaged no less than 26 points and 10.7 rebounds from 1993-2003. |
Just a tip: If you want to make a stats argument, don't use odd, cherrypicked numbers like 10.7 rebounds per game that isn't a standard that anyone uses for anything.
Rather than being impressive, it just makes it look like you need to really twist the numbers to make them come out in your favor. |
The reason I used that number is because it was his lowest rebound average during those years. |
Sure. And if you were making the case for Hakeem, you'd say "During his first 12 seasons Hakeem never averaged less than 10.8 rebounds per game -- while Shaq missed that mark multiple times."
You can cut the numbers a lot of way with these two guys, depending on who you want to "win."
If you want Shaq to "win," you'll favor scoring average, field goal percentage, rings and finals MVPs. If you want Hakeem to "win," you'll favor rebounding, blocks, steals, free throw percentage, and DPoY.
But, as I said, when I look at their accomplishments in total, I see them as equal. |
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slavavov Star Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8415 Location: Santa Monica
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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activeverb wrote: | slavavov wrote: | activeverb wrote: | slavavov wrote: |
On the other hand, Shaq averaged no less than 26 points and 10.7 rebounds from 1993-2003. |
Just a tip: If you want to make a stats argument, don't use odd, cherrypicked numbers like 10.7 rebounds per game that isn't a standard that anyone uses for anything.
Rather than being impressive, it just makes it look like you need to really twist the numbers to make them come out in your favor. |
The reason I used that number is because it was his lowest rebound average during those years. |
Sure. And if you were making the case for Hakeem, you'd say "During his first 12 seasons Hakeem never averaged less than 10.8 rebounds per game -- while Shaq missed that mark multiple times."
You can cut the numbers a lot of way with these two guys, depending on who you want to "win."
If you want Shaq to "win," you'll favor scoring average, field goal percentage, rings and finals MVPs. If you want Hakeem to "win," you'll favor rebounding, blocks, steals, free throw percentage, and DPoY.
But, as I said, when I look at their accomplishments in total, I see them as equal. |
I agree in that they were equal in terms of ability and skill. Shaq won more titles, but he had more real opportunities to win titles. Shaq was 4-2 in the finals and Hakeem was 2-1 in the finals, so in a way you could also call that even in terms of making the most of winning titles when their teams were good enough to give them that kind of support.
With citing their stats, I wasn't really talking about their rebounding. I was talking about the fact that while Shaq was consistently dominant, especially on offense, Hakeem went back and forth between being dominant and merely very good overall. Their rebounding numbers were pretty comparable, while one guy had a clear edge in his offensive production year in and year out. Hakeem had a clear edge as a shot blocker/defender, but does that make up the difference between scoring in the low 20s vs Shaq scoring in the high 20s? _________________ Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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^
If you made a short list of GOAT defenders, Hakeem would be on it, Shaq wouldn't. So whatever edge you want to give Shaq on offense, for me Hakeem makes up for it and more on defense. |
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Wino Star Player
Joined: 07 Jun 2002 Posts: 9674 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:26 am Post subject: |
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If Durant wins 6 rings he will be a top 10 player period, let the pundits figure it out.
Durant will stick out as a 7 footer who could handle the rock and shoot 3's with accuracy. Name another guy with his length, that has his handles and his shooting accuracy??
Lebron is not 7 feet tall.
The other thing that will begin going on in the next few years is that the age where actual tough defense was allowed will begin to be thought of as an aberration, young people who never experienced will downplay it's significance and try to explain it away as the era where nobody could shoot and where everyone fouled constantly. Blah blah blah. They will not value it, much like most of you have not valued the competition that Wilt and even Jabbar played against.
History is going to get re-written and Durant is going to move up that list just based on that. But I look at it as a Lakers fan, up to now, I always thought Worthy and Baylor were the best forwards we ever had and some of the best in the NBA. I personally would take Durant over Worthy in a heartbeat and I really love Worthy.
Durant is more unique than anyone before him, there just has never been a guy with his height who had his skills. That will move him up the list. _________________ Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain |
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danzag Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013 Posts: 22417 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:33 am Post subject: |
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Isn't Durant 6ft10? |
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BadGuy Star Player
Joined: 13 May 2008 Posts: 3629
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:06 am Post subject: |
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danzag wrote: | Isn't Durant 6ft10? |
Nah, he's 7 feet tall now. He even confirmed this himself. |
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