View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90323 Location: Formerly Known As 24
|
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Btw, it made me wonder how they do paternity tests in West Virginia, when all the DNA is nearly identical. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Huey Lewis & The News Star Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2015 Posts: 5234 Location: So what's the uh...topic of discussion?
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Aussiesuede Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 10964
|
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Huey Lewis & The News wrote: | the state fair just saves the burlap from the yearly father daughter potato sack race |
I think you underestimate the value of a burlap sack in West Virginia. Far too valuable to be wasting away in a lab with those Science folks.
Nah. In West Virginia, paternity is determined by a man's declaration. If a man says, "Just look at em.. Clearly that's not my boy. Those strong shoulders. That square jaw line. Those powerful legs. Clearly one night momma had too much moonshine and the next mornin the Billygoat was hyper". And a Birth Certificate will be Amended to read official father as "B.G.". West Virginia efficiency... _________________ I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
danzag Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013 Posts: 22431 Location: Brazil
|
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
governator wrote: | Ethically it’s absolutely the correct ‘punishment’ for the twins behavior of tricking women
Legally, maybe Brazil is not an innocent til proven guilty system so the burden of proof is not on the prosecutor but on the accused? |
Here in Brazil it is an "innocent until proven guilty" system.
But the burden of proof can be changed (we call it the "dynamic burden of proof theory") based on the intricacies of the case.
In this particular case, it is impossible for the woman to prove who is the father of the child.
But it is not impossible for one of the 2 men (or both) to prove it. So it is up to THEM to say who is the father. Until they stop covering one another's ass, they will both pay child support. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
governator Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 25230
|
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
danzag wrote: | governator wrote: | Ethically it’s absolutely the correct ‘punishment’ for the twins behavior of tricking women
Legally, maybe Brazil is not an innocent til proven guilty system so the burden of proof is not on the prosecutor but on the accused? |
Here in Brazil it is an "innocent until proven guilty" system.
But the burden of proof can be changed (we call it the "dynamic burden of proof theory") based on the intricacies of the case.
In this particular case, it is impossible for the woman to prove who is the father of the child.
But it is not impossible for one of the 2 men (or both) to prove it. So it is up to THEM to say who is the father. Until they stop covering one another's ass, they will both pay child support. |
I see, thx |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
|
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
danzag wrote: | governator wrote: | Ethically it’s absolutely the correct ‘punishment’ for the twins behavior of tricking women
Legally, maybe Brazil is not an innocent til proven guilty system so the burden of proof is not on the prosecutor but on the accused? |
Here in Brazil it is an "innocent until proven guilty" system.
But the burden of proof can be changed (we call it the "dynamic burden of proof theory") based on the intricacies of the case.
In this particular case, it is impossible for the woman to prove who is the father of the child.
But it is not impossible for one of the 2 men (or both) to prove it. So it is up to THEM to say who is the father. Until they stop covering one another's ass, they will both pay child support. |
That’s why I have an issue with it though. The burden of proof is not on the brothers IMO, it’s on the authority levying the penalty.
Same thing if a person was drunk, and attacked by one of four possible people who were there, you don’t throw all four in jail. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JerryMagicKobe Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 15100
|
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ringfinger wrote: | danzag wrote: | governator wrote: | Ethically it’s absolutely the correct ‘punishment’ for the twins behavior of tricking women
Legally, maybe Brazil is not an innocent til proven guilty system so the burden of proof is not on the prosecutor but on the accused? |
Here in Brazil it is an "innocent until proven guilty" system.
But the burden of proof can be changed (we call it the "dynamic burden of proof theory") based on the intricacies of the case.
In this particular case, it is impossible for the woman to prove who is the father of the child.
But it is not impossible for one of the 2 men (or both) to prove it. So it is up to THEM to say who is the father. Until they stop covering one another's ass, they will both pay child support. |
That’s why I have an issue with it though. The burden of proof is not on the brothers IMO, it’s on the authority levying the penalty.
Same thing if a person was drunk, and attacked by one of four possible people who were there, you don’t throw all four in jail. |
For a criminal prosecution, yes.
To make sure an infant is being provided for, no. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
|
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
JerryMagicKobe wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | danzag wrote: | governator wrote: | Ethically it’s absolutely the correct ‘punishment’ for the twins behavior of tricking women
Legally, maybe Brazil is not an innocent til proven guilty system so the burden of proof is not on the prosecutor but on the accused? |
Here in Brazil it is an "innocent until proven guilty" system.
But the burden of proof can be changed (we call it the "dynamic burden of proof theory") based on the intricacies of the case.
In this particular case, it is impossible for the woman to prove who is the father of the child.
But it is not impossible for one of the 2 men (or both) to prove it. So it is up to THEM to say who is the father. Until they stop covering one another's ass, they will both pay child support. |
That’s why I have an issue with it though. The burden of proof is not on the brothers IMO, it’s on the authority levying the penalty.
Same thing if a person was drunk, and attacked by one of four possible people who were there, you don’t throw all four in jail. |
For a criminal prosecution, yes.
To make sure an infant is being provided for, no. |
Still doesn’t make sense to me to force anyone to pay for child support if they didn’t create the child.
Not being able to figure it out doesn’t seem like a good reason to me. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
danzag Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013 Posts: 22431 Location: Brazil
|
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
ringfinger wrote: | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | danzag wrote: | governator wrote: | Ethically it’s absolutely the correct ‘punishment’ for the twins behavior of tricking women
Legally, maybe Brazil is not an innocent til proven guilty system so the burden of proof is not on the prosecutor but on the accused? |
Here in Brazil it is an "innocent until proven guilty" system.
But the burden of proof can be changed (we call it the "dynamic burden of proof theory") based on the intricacies of the case.
In this particular case, it is impossible for the woman to prove who is the father of the child.
But it is not impossible for one of the 2 men (or both) to prove it. So it is up to THEM to say who is the father. Until they stop covering one another's ass, they will both pay child support. |
That’s why I have an issue with it though. The burden of proof is not on the brothers IMO, it’s on the authority levying the penalty.
Same thing if a person was drunk, and attacked by one of four possible people who were there, you don’t throw all four in jail. |
For a criminal prosecution, yes.
To make sure an infant is being provided for, no. |
Still doesn’t make sense to me to force anyone to pay for child support if they didn’t create the child.
Not being able to figure it out doesn’t seem like a good reason to me. |
Well, they BOTH tricked the woman. This is a one in a million case.
And Brazil being a civil law country, this is not forming a legal precedent or anything |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
|
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
danzag wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | danzag wrote: | governator wrote: | Ethically it’s absolutely the correct ‘punishment’ for the twins behavior of tricking women
Legally, maybe Brazil is not an innocent til proven guilty system so the burden of proof is not on the prosecutor but on the accused? |
Here in Brazil it is an "innocent until proven guilty" system.
But the burden of proof can be changed (we call it the "dynamic burden of proof theory") based on the intricacies of the case.
In this particular case, it is impossible for the woman to prove who is the father of the child.
But it is not impossible for one of the 2 men (or both) to prove it. So it is up to THEM to say who is the father. Until they stop covering one another's ass, they will both pay child support. |
That’s why I have an issue with it though. The burden of proof is not on the brothers IMO, it’s on the authority levying the penalty.
Same thing if a person was drunk, and attacked by one of four possible people who were there, you don’t throw all four in jail. |
For a criminal prosecution, yes.
To make sure an infant is being provided for, no. |
Still doesn’t make sense to me to force anyone to pay for child support if they didn’t create the child.
Not being able to figure it out doesn’t seem like a good reason to me. |
Well, they BOTH tricked the woman. This is a one in a million case.
And Brazil being a civil law country, this is not forming a legal precedent or anything |
Agreed. So if you want to talk about some kind of civil lawsuit centered around fraud or something like that, I'd have no issues if they awarded her damages.
But that is different than child support, which, IMO, should only ever be a payment made from one parent or the other, and not, from multiple people who could be parents, to the other.
The outcome, whether it feels right or not, is less important to me than how we arrived there. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JerryMagicKobe Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 15100
|
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
ringfinger wrote: | danzag wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | danzag wrote: | governator wrote: | Ethically it’s absolutely the correct ‘punishment’ for the twins behavior of tricking women
Legally, maybe Brazil is not an innocent til proven guilty system so the burden of proof is not on the prosecutor but on the accused? |
Here in Brazil it is an "innocent until proven guilty" system.
But the burden of proof can be changed (we call it the "dynamic burden of proof theory") based on the intricacies of the case.
In this particular case, it is impossible for the woman to prove who is the father of the child.
But it is not impossible for one of the 2 men (or both) to prove it. So it is up to THEM to say who is the father. Until they stop covering one another's ass, they will both pay child support. |
That’s why I have an issue with it though. The burden of proof is not on the brothers IMO, it’s on the authority levying the penalty.
Same thing if a person was drunk, and attacked by one of four possible people who were there, you don’t throw all four in jail. |
For a criminal prosecution, yes.
To make sure an infant is being provided for, no. |
Still doesn’t make sense to me to force anyone to pay for child support if they didn’t create the child.
Not being able to figure it out doesn’t seem like a good reason to me. |
Well, they BOTH tricked the woman. This is a one in a million case.
And Brazil being a civil law country, this is not forming a legal precedent or anything |
Agreed. So if you want to talk about some kind of civil lawsuit centered around fraud or something like that, I'd have no issues if they awarded her damages.
But that is different than child support, which, IMO, should only ever be a payment made from one parent or the other, and not, from multiple people who could be parents, to the other.
The outcome, whether it feels right or not, is less important to me than how we arrived there. | If that is the standard you wish to apply, I think you would take issue with a lot of Family Court rulings. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
|
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
JerryMagicKobe wrote: | If that is the standard you wish to apply, I think you would take issue with a lot of Family Court rulings. |
Yeah, you're probably right. Those rulings can be particularly squishy.
But I do think it is decidedly different to make a judgment call on particular family matters, than it is to penalize someone through threat of force in a divorce proceeding that wasn't even married to the other just because you can't locate the actual spouse. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JerryMagicKobe Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 15100
|
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
ringfinger wrote: | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | If that is the standard you wish to apply, I think you would take issue with a lot of Family Court rulings. |
Yeah, you're probably right. Those rulings can be particularly squishy.
But I do think it is decidedly different to make a judgment call on particular family matters, than it is to penalize someone through threat of force in a divorce proceeding that wasn't even married to the other just because you can't locate the actual spouse. | You have the luxury of debating this in the abstract, but the Family Court judge is assigned the additional burden of having to consider how to meet the needs of the child. Starting with that as the goal makes it much easier to understand the ruling. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
|
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
JerryMagicKobe wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | If that is the standard you wish to apply, I think you would take issue with a lot of Family Court rulings. |
Yeah, you're probably right. Those rulings can be particularly squishy.
But I do think it is decidedly different to make a judgment call on particular family matters, than it is to penalize someone through threat of force in a divorce proceeding that wasn't even married to the other just because you can't locate the actual spouse. | You have the luxury of debating this in the abstract, but the Family Court judge is assigned the additional burden of having to consider how to meet the needs of the child. Starting with that as the goal makes it much easier to understand the ruling. |
I understand the ruling. I just don't agree with how they got there, that's all.
There are a lot of the things that can be better for the needs of a particular child, but I still wouldn't necessarily agree with all of them. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JerryMagicKobe Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 15100
|
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
ringfinger wrote: | I understand the ruling. I just don't agree with how they got there, that's all. |
You are the judge tasked with establishing support.
Knowing what you know, how would you rule? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
|
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
JerryMagicKobe wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | I understand the ruling. I just don't agree with how they got there, that's all. |
You are the judge tasked with establishing support.
Knowing what you know, how would you rule? |
Well I’d have to look at all of the information available to me. If I don’t have enough to identify the person, I wouldn’t be able to rule just as I wouldn’t if the mother didn’t know who the father was.
So if all I know is that evidence revealed it was one of X people, I would not be able to rule. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 68034 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
|
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
Does anyone know if DNA tests were performed? It's been studied there may be difference at the genetic level.
The Claim: Identical Twins Have Identical DNA
LINK
Quote: |
“When we started this study, people were expecting that only epigenetics would differ greatly between twins,” said Jan Dumanski, a professor of genetics at the University of Alabama at Birmingham and an author of the study. “But what we found are changes on the genetic level, the DNA sequence itself.” |
Quote: | The specific changes that Dr. Dumanski and his colleagues identified are known as copy number variations, in which a gene exists in multiple copies, or a set of coding letters in DNA is missing. Not known, however, is whether these changes in identical twins occur at the embryonic level, as the twins age or both. |
_________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|