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Practice
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Joined: 14 Apr 2015
Posts: 4551
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 Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | bfc1125roy wrote: | | epak wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Does GT support the hire of Lue? I know he seems somewhat positive towards him. |
Did he support the initial hire of Luke? |
I wouldn't fault anyone for supporting the initial hire of Walton. We all thought he was going to bring elements of the Warriors offense over. But as far as we saw, he did very little of that. Part of that was our teams were very different, but also because he used an inexperienced staff of assistants and relied on them for the Xs and Os, which they ultimately failed to do consistently.
About partway through Walton's second season, his offensive limitations were clear. His chest series was weak compared to what most of the league ran. The 1-4 high was even worse, honestly. Then you had the constant PnRs with no prelude or disguise, isolations, and lack of any meaningful 2nd options when the plays didn't work.
Also, even forgetting the sets they ran, just watch how the team looked on offense. You would see guys try to screen, run back, and then 2 seconds later try to screen again. Lots and lots of standing around. People just looked unsure of what to do. Plays we copied from other teams just weren't executed well - not making contact on screens, not making the right reads, etc.
If you'd like more evidence of that, check out a post I wrote on here detailing it: http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=187056&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
We couldn't have anticipated this based on what he did in GSW, where the offense, defense, and chemistry were already in place. He just had to play more of a leadership role. |
A part of me wants to say the players we had on the team were just too dumb. Or inexperienced. Even basic sets were probably hard for them. Sad. |
It was the same thing for three years and it was a problem with both young guys and vets. It was Luke’s system and the implementation of it that was confusing guys. |
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pio2u
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Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54624
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:46 am Post subject: |
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Coaching tidbit FYI:
T-Lue is Jayson Tatum's cousin. |
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epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| bfc1125roy wrote: | | epak wrote: | | bfc1125roy wrote: | | epak wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Does GT support the hire of Lue? I know he seems somewhat positive towards him. |
Did he support the initial hire of Luke? |
I wouldn't fault anyone for supporting the initial hire of Walton. We all thought he was going to bring elements of the Warriors offense over. But as far as we saw, he did very little of that. Part of that was our teams were very different, but also because he used an inexperienced staff of assistants and relied on them for the Xs and Os, which they ultimately failed to do consistently.
About partway through Walton's second season, his offensive limitations were clear. His chest series was weak compared to what most of the league ran. The 1-4 high was even worse, honestly. Then you had the constant PnRs with no prelude or disguise, isolations, and lack of any meaningful 2nd options when the plays didn't work.
Also, even forgetting the sets they ran, just watch how the team looked on offense. You would see guys try to screen, run back, and then 2 seconds later try to screen again. Lots and lots of standing around. People just looked unsure of what to do. Plays we copied from other teams just weren't executed well - not making contact on screens, not making the right reads, etc.
If you'd like more evidence of that, check out a post I wrote on here detailing it: http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=187056&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
We couldn't have anticipated this based on what he did in GSW, where the offense, defense, and chemistry were already in place. He just had to play more of a leadership role. |
A part of me wants to say the players we had on the team were just too dumb. Or inexperienced. Even basic sets were probably hard for them. Sad. |
I'm not 100% convinced of that. Many players have run more complicated offenses in the past. LeBron under Lue, Rondo under Gentry and Rivers, Ball in UCLA, Kuzma in Utah, Ingram at Duke, McGee in Golden State, KCP for Van Gundy, etc.
In fact, when Nance and Clarkson got traded to the Cavs midseason, they were flawlessly running complex sets there, which they were not doing under Luke. You can head over to my other topic to see Nance and Clarkson execute a flawless single side tag, which is a second option out of the high post split action the Cavs run. And they didn't even have a training camp to learn it. Never seen the Lakers execute something like that.
Luke has been asked about it in interviews, and his response was that he didn't want to run complex sets because he couldn't teach them due to the injuries. But I don't buy that. He's had 2 training camps to figure something out. And we never really had a go to play that could get us a bucket. He also refused to upgrade his coaching staff (reportedly), and while the loyalty is cool, that's a huge red flag. |
I was referring to the couple of years prior.
This year I'm still going with the injury angle.
Also Luke sucking and the players sucking aren't mutually exclusive. |
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epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Practice wrote: | | epak wrote: | | bfc1125roy wrote: | | epak wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Does GT support the hire of Lue? I know he seems somewhat positive towards him. |
Did he support the initial hire of Luke? |
I wouldn't fault anyone for supporting the initial hire of Walton. We all thought he was going to bring elements of the Warriors offense over. But as far as we saw, he did very little of that. Part of that was our teams were very different, but also because he used an inexperienced staff of assistants and relied on them for the Xs and Os, which they ultimately failed to do consistently.
About partway through Walton's second season, his offensive limitations were clear. His chest series was weak compared to what most of the league ran. The 1-4 high was even worse, honestly. Then you had the constant PnRs with no prelude or disguise, isolations, and lack of any meaningful 2nd options when the plays didn't work.
Also, even forgetting the sets they ran, just watch how the team looked on offense. You would see guys try to screen, run back, and then 2 seconds later try to screen again. Lots and lots of standing around. People just looked unsure of what to do. Plays we copied from other teams just weren't executed well - not making contact on screens, not making the right reads, etc.
If you'd like more evidence of that, check out a post I wrote on here detailing it: http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=187056&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
We couldn't have anticipated this based on what he did in GSW, where the offense, defense, and chemistry were already in place. He just had to play more of a leadership role. |
A part of me wants to say the players we had on the team were just too dumb. Or inexperienced. Even basic sets were probably hard for them. Sad. |
It was the same thing for three years and it was a problem with both young guys and vets. It was Luke’s system and the implementation of it that was confusing guys. |
I want to say both were true |
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krisobe
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 3309
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| If Ty Lue can get LBJ to play defense next season and shoot 36% from 3 and 74% from FT , then HIRE HIM BY ALL MEANS lol. |
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Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17109
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| pio2u wrote: | Coaching tidbit FYI:
T-Lue is Jayson Tatum's cousin. |
1 - Hire Lue.
2 - Have him get Tatum to force a trade to the Lakers for Hart.
_________________
On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| pio2u wrote: | Coaching tidbit FYI:
T-Lue is Jayson Tatum's cousin. |
Nice.
Sasha Banks is Snoop Dogg's cousin |
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Stumpy25
Star Player
Joined: 27 Oct 2016
Posts: 1314
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| krisobe wrote: | | If Ty Lue can get LBJ to play defense next season and shoot 36% from 3 and 74% from FT , then HIRE HIM BY ALL MEANS lol. |
Agreed, also if LBJ is the main guy on this team why would you want to hire someone that makes him uncomfortable? Just go and hire Lue already and call it a day. |
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Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 16761
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Stumpy25 wrote: | | krisobe wrote: | | If Ty Lue can get LBJ to play defense next season and shoot 36% from 3 and 74% from FT , then HIRE HIM BY ALL MEANS lol. |
Agreed, also if LBJ is the main guy on this team why would you want to hire someone that makes him uncomfortable? Just go and hire Lue already and call it a day. |
Bron is at the end of his career. More games missed to injury/ load management. If lue can’t coach then we are exactly where we are now. Get a guy who can coach up. |
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KendrickLamar
Starting Rotation
Joined: 07 Apr 2014
Posts: 515
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| If utah loses in the first round what are they chances they let go quin snyder, would love to get him on the lakers. |
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2019
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10814
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| KendrickLamar wrote: | | If utah loses in the first round what are they chances they let go quin snyder, would love to get him on the lakers. |
Pelinka could compare that to bread falling from the heavens and it would actually be true...
zero chance |
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Staccatos
Star Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2002
Posts: 2416
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | pio2u wrote: | Coaching tidbit FYI:
T-Lue is Jayson Tatum's cousin. |
Nice.
Sasha Banks is Snoop Dogg's cousin |
Do it Snoop! Roll that magic wand! |
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Lakerfan 4 Life
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 16127
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | pio2u wrote: | Coaching tidbit FYI:
T-Lue is Jayson Tatum's cousin. |
Nice.
Sasha Banks is Snoop Dogg's cousin |
Sasha is cute. |
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GoldenThroat
Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 37474
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epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| If our next coach implements better actions than Luke, hopefully we're more efficient on offense and the opponent is getting the ball out from made baskets instead of off rebounds. That should help the defense. |
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JerryWest_44
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Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 25445
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:57 am Post subject: |
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Tye Lue -- part of the coaching carousel and an unimaginative choice .... sheesh
Jay Wright or Becky Hammon |
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| JerryWest_44 wrote: | Tye Lue -- part of the coaching carousel and an unimaginative choice .... sheesh
Jay Wright or Becky Hammon |
Be outside the box for the sake of being outside the box?
I thought we wanted some stability by hiring a person who's been a head coach in the NBA though? |
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JerryWest_44
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Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 25445
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | JerryWest_44 wrote: | Tye Lue -- part of the coaching carousel and an unimaginative choice .... sheesh
Jay Wright or Becky Hammon |
Be outside the box for the sake of being outside the box?
I thought we wanted some stability by hiring a person who's been a head coach in the NBA though? |
Status quo hasn't worked.
https://sportsnaut.com/2019/04/why-becky-hammon-makes-perfect-sense-for-the-lakers/ |
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Runway8
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 22854
Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| JerryWest_44 wrote: | | epak wrote: | | JerryWest_44 wrote: | Tye Lue -- part of the coaching carousel and an unimaginative choice .... sheesh
Jay Wright or Becky Hammon |
Be outside the box for the sake of being outside the box?
I thought we wanted some stability by hiring a person who's been a head coach in the NBA though? |
Status quo hasn't worked.
https://sportsnaut.com/2019/04/why-becky-hammon-makes-perfect-sense-for-the-lakers/ |
Impatience hasn't worked. The best coach we had since PJ was Dantoni. He wanted an extension and we didn't give it to him. He would have done well with the young running kids. For some reason, we thought a different coach could have done better than MDA? And what do we do? Travel to the 80's to bring back nostalgia in Byron Scott, who is easily the worst coach since PJ. Then we decided we want a long term young buck coach, and hired Luke. Then instead of being patient, everyone made all that noise regarding Deng and Moz deals. Like these two deals are the only thing keeping us back from whopping the Warriors. LOL! So Jeanie allows a coup to happen and believed in Pelinka and Magic's harebrained scheme of a rag tag crew of tough guys to compliment Lebron. Pelinka now has the ball with 5 seconds left on the clock, if he doesn't hit the buzzer beater this summer, we are in for another retirement tour. We will be re-doing Kobe's last yrs again in the form of Lebron, and lets say how this new brass does rebuilding with an aging star since they were so judgmental of the previous regime. |
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Runway8
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 22854
Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:46 am Post subject: |
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We would have been so much better staying put. Kept all the assets such as D'Lo and Randle who has been steadily improving. Moz and Deng comes off in '20. All the while, the Warriors are slowly aging and wearing down. You would have young up and coming team to attract AD. The same was Shaq was impressed by the Lakeshow. That was my reasoning for not allowing the coup to happen. You do not need to slash assets to dump salary now, there is no point since you can't win it all anyway.
Jeanie's impatience and sadness that "we don't have an all-star in the LA all-star game" may have set this franchise back even further. |
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Stumpy25
Star Player
Joined: 27 Oct 2016
Posts: 1314
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryWest_44 wrote: | Tye Lue -- part of the coaching carousel and an unimaginative choice .... sheesh
Jay Wright or Becky Hammon |
Either of those will not last half a season with LBJ. |
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Practice
Star Player
Joined: 14 Apr 2015
Posts: 4551
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryWest_44 wrote: | Tye Lue -- part of the coaching carousel and an unimaginative choice .... sheesh
Jay Wright or Becky Hammon |
Hammon is probably third on the list of Pop disciples that teams will look at. She’s just the most known one outside of maybe Messina.
It’s the same thing with people only talking about David Griffin for FO jobs. |
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryWest_44 wrote: | | epak wrote: | | JerryWest_44 wrote: | Tye Lue -- part of the coaching carousel and an unimaginative choice .... sheesh
Jay Wright or Becky Hammon |
Be outside the box for the sake of being outside the box?
I thought we wanted some stability by hiring a person who's been a head coach in the NBA though? |
Status quo hasn't worked.
https://sportsnaut.com/2019/04/why-becky-hammon-makes-perfect-sense-for-the-lakers/ |
I dont know.
Getting Phil the 2nd time around was "unimaginative" no?
Again, I dont think it's about being "imaginative." It's about getting the best NBA coach available. If Jay and Becky are that, then I'm all for it. I just dont know if that's the case. |
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Practice
Star Player
Joined: 14 Apr 2015
Posts: 4551
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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According to Woj the Suns fired their coach to try and snipe Williams from us.
The coach they just fired is a well respected tactician, so it will be interesting to see what happens with him. |
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ibitegirls
Star Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2011
Posts: 4204
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Practice wrote: | According to Woj the Suns fired their coach to try and snipe Williams from us.
The coach they just fired is a well respected tactician, so it will be interesting to see what happens with him. |
Cya Williams  |
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