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D'Angelo Russell - Discussion (Woj: DLO to Warriors for 4 years $117M)
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Maginka
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Joined: 08 Feb 2018
Posts: 468

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:25 am Post subject:

Jordan-esque wrote:

Kobe_Is_King13 wrote:

epak wrote:

Nash Vegas wrote:

epak wrote:

Quote:

Fred Roggin
@FredNBCLA

According to sources..
#Lakers set meeting with D’Angelo Russell. Club working towards setting meetings with defensive specialist and a lights out shooter also has interest. To be continued....

Hard to tell who Fred's source is though.

Setting a meeting with a RFA now? Lakers not gonna wait for Nets to renounce Dlo and just let him sign an offer sheet and tie up their money?

Something sounds fishy ey? Either total BS.
Or Kyrie let Lebron know he's going to the Nets.

Nothing fishy at all. Why not make them decide sooner rather than later? Make an offer and they'd have 3 days to match. They'd most likely decline to match and make him a UFA as they're trying to sign Kyrie and KD.

Soonest Nets can match is July 9th because the offer sheet even if it’s signed on July 1st won’t go into effect legally until July 6th (via Bobby Marks).

[url=https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1143206790659805184]
[/url]

A member of the Nets medical staff did KD's surgery, Nets getting KD/Kyrie.....D'Lo will be unrestricted

RestEasyBlackMamba
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Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 3061

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:27 am Post subject:

How’s DLO off ball these days?

AFireInside619
Franchise Player

Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:28 am Post subject:

Why the (bleep) would anyone ask anything from Magic? Trust me Bill, your job is very relevant as a Lakers reporter and you’ll get clicks without talking to Magic. Having Russell here is better than Magic chasing him away a second time. _________________ “You have to dance beautifully in the box that you are comfortable dancing in.” - Kobe Bryant

LakersChamps04
Star Player

Joined: 06 Oct 2003
Posts: 3737

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:29 am Post subject:

Alright, after watching some DLo highlights from last season, I am ready for him to join. Lets do it! He'll be perfect alongside AD & LeBron. Dat Ice in his Veins doeeeee

KeepItRealOrElse
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Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:31 am Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

nomoreshaq wrote:

beginning to think we are going to add Dlo, Seth curry and a "Defensive specialist" - beverly. something like 27 for DLO, 6 for beverly and the room for seth curry. korver for the min.

AD
Kuz
LBJ
DLO/Curry/Korver
BEV

not a bad top 7.

If they're adding Seth as a shooter (which would be awesome), I hope D. Green is the "defensive specialist" target to get more size in the backcourt.

Can we revive this defensive analytics talk again.. I'm scared your relying on DRPM for any semblance of accuracy pinpointing a player like Seth's defense.

A friend sent me a list of potential FA's last night and he included their RPM's and DRPM's.. made me look at the DRPM list again.

Jimmy Butler By all accounts from Philly fans/bloggers, he was an average defender in the regular season for them and not a speck more. His effort was considerably lower than previous years.
His DRPM though is 2nd in the NBA for shooting guards http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/2

Here is how Philly fans saw his defense

Quote:

@sixersadam
Doing some playoff research and found a pretty staggering number — Jimmy Butler’s overall defense since joining the Sixers is in the 22nd percentile, per Synergy. The only defensive category in which he rates as above average is against spot-up shooters.

@sixersadam
The biggest reason is pretty clearly effort. It’s painfully obvious that he’s been coasting on defense for a while now. Ultimately that’s okay for this year if he steps it up in the playoffs. But if he’s in the long-term plans, I’m not sure if this is tenable.

@sixersadam
Many are skeptics of the value of Synergy’s defensive numbers, which is fair. But I think it’s fairly clear that he hasn’t been a plus defender for the Sixers.

here's more accounts from Sixers fans https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/bcnnqa/how_is_jimmy_butlers_defense_this_year/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

There's more examples of players like this as well. D analytics being notoriously unreliable is looking true-ooh to me

I'd be adding Seth Curry for his shooting more than his defense.

But to your broader point, random fans' assessment of a player's defense seems much more unreliable to me.

lol. yes a hoard of fans and a competent Sixers blogger, have no idea what their eyes are seeing when they see Jimmy coasting on defense

Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46737

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:33 am Post subject:

LakersChamps04 wrote:

Alright, after watching some DLo highlights from last season, I am ready for him to join. Lets do it! He'll be perfect alongside AD & LeBron. Dat Ice in his Veins doeeeee

The pick and pop between DLO and AD is gonna be a beauty.

Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:35 am Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

nomoreshaq wrote:

If they're adding Seth as a shooter (which would be awesome), I hope D. Green is the "defensive specialist" target to get more size in the backcourt.

Quote:

I'd be adding Seth Curry for his shooting more than his defense.

But to your broader point, random fans' assessment of a player's defense seems much more unreliable to me.

lol. yes a hoard of fans and a competent Sixers blogger, have no idea what their eyes are seeing when they see Jimmy coasting on defense

I mean...yeah. Most fans think they know what they're seeing when they really have no clue about defense.

Who's the Pete Zayas of the Sixers blogoverse? What's that dude (or dudette) have to say via detailed film analysis about Butler's defense?
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:38 am Post subject:

24ways2die wrote:

How’s DLO off ball these days?

I would say healed by now as the Lebron pass was years ago.

Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:42 am Post subject:

epak wrote:

24ways2die wrote:

How’s DLO off ball these days?

I would say healed by now as the Lebron pass was years ago.

That was just a love tap.
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The Juggernaut
Star Player

Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:44 am Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

nomoreshaq wrote:

If they're adding Seth as a shooter (which would be awesome), I hope D. Green is the "defensive specialist" target to get more size in the backcourt.

Quote:

I'd be adding Seth Curry for his shooting more than his defense.

But to your broader point, random fans' assessment of a player's defense seems much more unreliable to me.

lol. yes a hoard of fans and a competent Sixers blogger, have no idea what their eyes are seeing when they see Jimmy coasting on defense

It's true defense is the toughest aspect for fans, including myself, to really assess. The best way to assess individual defense is through the film analysis which is why having GT aka LFR is such a treasure for Lakers fans.

KeepItRealOrElse
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Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:51 am Post subject:

seeing a guy give poor effort and miss rotations pops off the screen. If you focus on that player (a lot of people focus on stars) you will usually have an accurate assessment of that player's defense

The Juggernaut
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Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:54 am Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

seeing a guy give poor effort and miss rotations pops off the screen. If you focus on that player (a lot of people focus on stars) you will usually have an accurate assessment of that player's defense

Eh, I take fans' analysis on defense with a grain of salt after reading LG posts for years and the nba subreddits. So many people see many different things. Nothing beats a film breakdown and analytics to support that film breakdown for defense imo.

KeepItRealOrElse
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Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:58 am Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

do Laker fans largely look at defensive analytics to see that Kuzma is a poor defender, or is that accurately assessed by their eyes? All types of fans from XO guys to the casual fan, over the past few years - have seen with their eyes and deduced that Lebron's defense has lacked effort and is mediocre at best..even numbers guys look at Lebron's effort, poor closeouts, missed rotations, etc and easily SEE that he's a mediocre defender at best (very often poor) although I think the numbers say mediocre........
bad defense from notable players pops.

Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:59 am Post subject:

The big issue with DLo joining the Lakers is whether he still has that OSU off-ball game in him after being so ball dominant with the Nets. He ran pretty much the most PnRs in the NBA last season and he was assisted on only 28% of his shots. You have to have faith that he can rebalance his game playing off of Lebron, which should cause his TS% to go up nicely. If you think he's only hardwired to be a 30%+ usage guy who runs PnR every time down the floor, then I definitely see the concern with committing so much cap to a questionable fit. _________________ Under New Management

where24happens
Star Player

Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 3410

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:03 am Post subject:

Hard pass on D-Lo. Rather use his money on 2-3 good role players

Username
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Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 4718
Location: Out There

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:05 am Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

The big issue with DLo joining the Lakers is whether he still has that OSU off-ball game in him after being so ball dominant with the Nets. He ran pretty much the most PnRs in the NBA last season and he was assisted on only 28% of his shots.

You have to have faith that he can rebalance his game playing off of Lebron, which should cause his TS% to go up nicely.

If you think he's only hardwired to be a 30%+ usage guy who runs PnR every time down the floor, then I definitely see the concern with committing so much cap to a questionable fit.

LeBron ain't playing 40 minutes a night. We need a capable ball handler to take the pressure off him like Kyrie did.

The Juggernaut
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Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:06 am Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

The Juggernaut wrote:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

You're using obvious extreme examples with Lebron and Kuzma. Butler's defensive effort could have been less than in year's past with the Sixers but going off of a few Sixer's fans posts about it isnt conclusive enough for me especially when their conclusion is "average"

KeepItRealOrElse
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Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:09 am Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

The Juggernaut wrote:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

it's really not a few of them, and they categorize it as "underwhelming".
it's really not hard to see poor effort. which is what they see as his problem.

The Juggernaut
Star Player

Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:14 am Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

The Juggernaut wrote:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

The Juggernaut wrote:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

it's really not a few of them, and they categorize it as "underwhelming".
it's really not hard to see poor effort. which is what they see as his problem.

Raptors fans were also "underwhelmed" with Kawhi's defensive effort for most of the season.

Ziggy
Franchise Player

Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12722

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:15 am Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:

logical24 wrote:

Beverly
DLO
LeBron
Kuzma
AD

You can literally rotate anyone on defense good for switching.

I'd rather have KCP than Beverley... Pat's getting old and KCP can score way more if he gets hot. I like Beverley's intangibles... but I think KCP adds more true offensive threat.

KCP is highly inconsistent. Sure he has the potential to put up more points than Beverley, but what Beverley gives you, he does it every night. You know exactly what to expect when he's in the lineup: irritating defense and floor spacing. KCP will give you scoring 1 out of every 10 games.

KeepItRealOrElse
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Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:18 am Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

The Juggernaut wrote:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

The Juggernaut wrote:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

it's really not a few of them, and they categorize it as "underwhelming".
it's really not hard to see poor effort. which is what they see as his problem.

Raptors fans were also "underwhelmed" with Kawhi's defensive effort for most of the season.

uh yes he wasn't his usual self defensively+athletically. Even Kawhi and Nick Nurse said his defense needed/would take a step up in the playoffs

Last edited by KeepItRealOrElse on Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:19 am; edited 2 times in total

anth2000
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Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 12247
Location: Pasadena, CA

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:18 am Post subject:

where24happens wrote:

Hard pass on D-Lo. Rather use his money on 2-3 good role players

I do agree. He's not elite and will take up much of the money that the team has.

But his fan club is strong...especially in LG.

The Juggernaut
Star Player

Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:21 am Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

The Juggernaut wrote:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

The Juggernaut wrote:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

The Juggernaut wrote:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

it's really not a few of them, and they categorize it as "underwhelming".
it's really not hard to see poor effort. which is what they see as his problem.

Raptors fans were also "underwhelmed" with Kawhi's defensive effort for most of the season.

uh yes he wasn't his usual self defensively+athletically. Even Kawhi and Nick Nurse said his defense needed/would take a step up in the playoffs

Yeah, which is why the fans expectations are off to begin with. No star past the age of 27 is able to be a 20+ PPG scorer and bring full defensive effort every night.

Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:23 am Post subject:

anth2000 wrote:

where24happens wrote:

Hard pass on D-Lo. Rather use his money on 2-3 good role players

I do agree. He's not elite and will take up much of the money that the team has.

But his fan club is strong...especially in LG.

As opposed to his anti-fan club.
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KeepItRealOrElse
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Posts: 32767

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:23 am Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

The Juggernaut wrote:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

The Juggernaut wrote:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

The Juggernaut wrote:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

it's really not a few of them, and they categorize it as "underwhelming".
it's really not hard to see poor effort. which is what they see as his problem.

Raptors fans were also "underwhelmed" with Kawhi's defensive effort for most of the season.

uh yes he wasn't his usual self defensively+athletically. Even Kawhi and Nick Nurse said his defense needed/would take a step up in the playoffs

Yeah, which is why the fans expectations are off to begin with. No star past the age of 27 is able to be a 20+ PPG scorer and bring full defensive effort every night.

the issue with Jimmy is he wasn't a 1st or really 2nd option offensively with Philly. he got 2nd option ppg but the ball was in Simmons and Embiid's hands a lot, taking a lot of Jimmy's load off, ideally for him to give effort on defense

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