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moonriver24 Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Oct 2007 Posts: 15266
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Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | governator wrote: | This thread on life support |
Have people given up on trying to prove Kobe > Lebron? Let’s get some new info guys!
Lebron will surpass Kobe in scoring soon and I wonder if this thread will go nuts or stay dormant at that time. |
What is there to prove?
Kobe and MJ never surpassed Karl Malone in total points scored.
We all know the history of MJ and Kobe. How each began their career and how they ended each. _________________ Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:24 am Post subject: |
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moonriver24 wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | governator wrote: | This thread on life support |
Have people given up on trying to prove Kobe > Lebron? Let’s get some new info guys!
Lebron will surpass Kobe in scoring soon and I wonder if this thread will go nuts or stay dormant at that time. |
What is there to prove?
Kobe and MJ never surpassed Karl Malone in total points scored.
We all know the history of MJ and Kobe. How each began their career and how they ended each. |
Yeah, that’s fair. I guess “prove” was a bad choice of words considering my thing has been to say this isn’t something that can proven.
Me personally, I don’t think it will mean anything when Lebron surpasses Kobe there in so far as who my favorite vs who I think is better at the game is concerned. _________________ Clippers are our Daddy. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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What else we got? _________________ Clippers are our Daddy. |
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LandsbergerRules Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
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Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:28 am Post subject: |
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Awesome article about Kobe's thoughts on Bron passing him in career scoring as a Laker. These guys have have the utmost respect for each other. Greatness recognize greatness: https://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/story/2020-01-18/lebron-james-kobe-bryant-nba-scoring-list _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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lakersfever714 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 12120
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Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:48 am Post subject: |
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Once Lebron is done playing, there will be no comparison, to MJ or Kobe. He'll be in a class by himself. The NBA has been around for 71 years and we've seen one Lebron so enjoy it while it lasts because players like him don't come around often. _________________ Playoffs is good enough. - Jeanie Buss 2024 |
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Metro2Staples Starting Rotation
Joined: 08 Sep 2019 Posts: 311
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Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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Agree. I haven't posted any advanced stats here, but I saw some and they show that LAbron is already in that class by himself.
lakersfever714 wrote: | Once Lebron is done playing, there will be no comparison, to MJ or Kobe. He'll be in a class by himself. The NBA has been around for 71 years and we've seen one Lebron so enjoy it while it lasts because players like him don't come around often. |
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Dreamshake Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006 Posts: 13721
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Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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LaLaLakeShow wrote: | moonriver24 wrote: | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEpV10qKlYQ
Dirk Nowitzki CLAIMS Kobe Bryant was the best offensive player or best player he has seen and faced.
Henry Abbot is fuming. |
Kobe was hands down the best player for almost a full decade.
It makes me laugh when people try to rework the past |
It does make me laugh when people try to rework the past and act like Kobe was better that either Shaq or Duncan prior to the mid 2000’s and better than LeBron circa 09 and onward. |
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LaLaLakeShow Star Player
Joined: 04 Aug 2019 Posts: 2989
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Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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Dreamshake wrote: | LaLaLakeShow wrote: | moonriver24 wrote: | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEpV10qKlYQ
Dirk Nowitzki CLAIMS Kobe Bryant was the best offensive player or best player he has seen and faced.
Henry Abbot is fuming. |
Kobe was hands down the best player for almost a full decade.
It makes me laugh when people try to rework the past |
It does make me laugh when people try to rework the past and act like Kobe was better that either Shaq or Duncan prior to the mid 2000’s and better than LeBron circa 09 and onward. |
Ok Boomer _________________ Mamba Made Moments Meticulously Magnificent |
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LandsbergerRules Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:24 am Post subject: |
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Dreamshake wrote: |
It does make me laugh when people try to rework the past and act like Kobe was better that either Shaq or Duncan prior to the mid 2000’s and better than LeBron circa 09 and onward. |
I'm curious, when you say Duncan was better than Kobe prior to the mid 2000s, what metrics are you using? _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:53 am Post subject: |
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LandsbergerRules wrote: | Dreamshake wrote: |
It does make me laugh when people try to rework the past and act like Kobe was better that either Shaq or Duncan prior to the mid 2000’s and better than LeBron circa 09 and onward. |
I'm curious, when you say Duncan was better than Kobe prior to the mid 2000s, what metrics are you using? |
Through about 2005, it's a pretty easy argument to make. Kobe scored more points, but Duncan was at his peak as a defensive force in those days. |
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LandsbergerRules Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:02 am Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | LandsbergerRules wrote: | Dreamshake wrote: |
It does make me laugh when people try to rework the past and act like Kobe was better that either Shaq or Duncan prior to the mid 2000’s and better than LeBron circa 09 and onward. |
I'm curious, when you say Duncan was better than Kobe prior to the mid 2000s, what metrics are you using? |
Through about 2005, it's a pretty easy argument to make. Kobe scored more points, but Duncan was at his peak as a defensive force in those days. |
I'm just curious if there are exact stats Dreamshake ( or you ) are using in this evaluation. _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:16 am Post subject: |
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LandsbergerRules wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | LandsbergerRules wrote: | Dreamshake wrote: |
It does make me laugh when people try to rework the past and act like Kobe was better that either Shaq or Duncan prior to the mid 2000’s and better than LeBron circa 09 and onward. |
I'm curious, when you say Duncan was better than Kobe prior to the mid 2000s, what metrics are you using? |
Through about 2005, it's a pretty easy argument to make. Kobe scored more points, but Duncan was at his peak as a defensive force in those days. |
I'm just curious if there are exact stats Dreamshake ( or you ) are using in this evaluation. |
Not for me, but bear in mind that Kobe is generally going to fare poorly on metrics across the board, because metrics do not rate him as an impactful defender. This has been discussed before, probably in this thread. |
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LandsbergerRules Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:41 am Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: |
Not for me, but bear in mind that Kobe is generally going to fare poorly on metrics across the board, because metrics do not rate him as an impactful defender. This has been discussed before, probably in this thread. |
I've always wondered what specific stats on both offense and defense were used when judging that Duncan was better. That's all. Or if it was more of an eye test or rings argument. _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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Mamba81 Star Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2019 Posts: 2027
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:28 am Post subject: |
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LandsbergerRules wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: |
Not for me, but bear in mind that Kobe is generally going to fare poorly on metrics across the board, because metrics do not rate him as an impactful defender. This has been discussed before, probably in this thread. |
I've always wondered what specific stats on both offense and defense were used when judging that Duncan was better. That's all. Or if it was more of an eye test or rings argument. |
it definitely aint eye test. duncan one boring mf _________________ Kobe Forever |
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Huey Lewis & The News Star Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2015 Posts: 5234 Location: So what's the uh...topic of discussion?
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NBAFAN24 Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2010 Posts: 1105
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:25 am Post subject: |
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Depends on how far the Lakers get in the playoffs, he’s going to be make it hard for the next guy to surpass him on the all-time playoffs total points. So many accolades and milestones, I don’t even know where to start. Winning one more title and finals MVP, and he’ll be only the second player in NBA history to win four MVP and four finals MVP joining the one and only, MJ. |
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NBAFAN24 Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2010 Posts: 1105
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:30 am Post subject: |
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I really hope he stays healthy enough to finish his career strong. By next year, he’ll be at 35k points and be within 3k points from reaching Cap. He’s going to gun for it. |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:54 am Post subject: |
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LandsbergerRules wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: |
Not for me, but bear in mind that Kobe is generally going to fare poorly on metrics across the board, because metrics do not rate him as an impactful defender. This has been discussed before, probably in this thread. |
I've always wondered what specific stats on both offense and defense were used when judging that Duncan was better. That's all. Or if it was more of an eye test or rings argument. |
I don’t know that anyone focused on metrics, which really didn’t exist back then. There was a four year stretch when Duncan either won the MVP or finished second. Box score stats are a poor measure of defense, but Duncan was averaging about 12.5 rebounds and 2.5 blocks. So I wouldn’t say that it was just an eye test.
If I was going to compare metrics, I’d start with BPM because it is readily available for the early ‘00s. You can find the RAPM numbers for that era with some effort. |
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LandsbergerRules Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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Mamba81 wrote: | LandsbergerRules wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: |
Not for me, but bear in mind that Kobe is generally going to fare poorly on metrics across the board, because metrics do not rate him as an impactful defender. This has been discussed before, probably in this thread. |
I've always wondered what specific stats on both offense and defense were used when judging that Duncan was better. That's all. Or if it was more of an eye test or rings argument. |
it definitely aint eye test. duncan one boring mf |
_________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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governator Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 25294
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | LandsbergerRules wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: |
Not for me, but bear in mind that Kobe is generally going to fare poorly on metrics across the board, because metrics do not rate him as an impactful defender. This has been discussed before, probably in this thread. |
I've always wondered what specific stats on both offense and defense were used when judging that Duncan was better. That's all. Or if it was more of an eye test or rings argument. |
I don’t know that anyone focused on metrics, which really didn’t exist back then. There was a four year stretch when Duncan either won the MVP or finished second. Box score stats are a poor measure of defense, but Duncan was averaging about 12.5 rebounds and 2.5 blocks. So I wouldn’t say that it was just an eye test.
If I was going to compare metrics, I’d start with BPM because it is readily available for the early ‘00s. You can find the RAPM numbers for that era with some effort. |
Careful, Harden either won MVP or finish seconds like five times (this accurate dreamshake?), he’s not better than a bunch of people |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Who is better than Harden over the last five years? Curry, maybe. Lebron, maybe. You may not like his game, and I won’t blame you for that. He’s still been pretty amazing. |
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mad55557777 Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 23688
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | Who is better than Harden over the last five years? Curry, maybe. Lebron, maybe. You may not like his game, and I won’t blame you for that. He’s still been pretty amazing. |
KD |
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LaLaLakeShow Star Player
Joined: 04 Aug 2019 Posts: 2989
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | Who is better than Harden over the last five years? Curry, maybe. Lebron, maybe. You may not like his game, and I won’t blame you for that. He’s still been pretty amazing. |
Yeah, he’s Awesome _________________ Mamba Made Moments Meticulously Magnificent |
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Mamba81 Star Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2019 Posts: 2027
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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LandsbergerRules wrote: | Mamba81 wrote: | LandsbergerRules wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: |
Not for me, but bear in mind that Kobe is generally going to fare poorly on metrics across the board, because metrics do not rate him as an impactful defender. This has been discussed before, probably in this thread. |
I've always wondered what specific stats on both offense and defense were used when judging that Duncan was better. That's all. Or if it was more of an eye test or rings argument. |
it definitely aint eye test. duncan one boring mf |
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forreal tho. most exciting thing about him was a shot off the backboard. _________________ Kobe Forever |
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LaLaLakeShow Star Player
Joined: 04 Aug 2019 Posts: 2989
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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Mamba81 wrote: | LandsbergerRules wrote: | Mamba81 wrote: | LandsbergerRules wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: |
Not for me, but bear in mind that Kobe is generally going to fare poorly on metrics across the board, because metrics do not rate him as an impactful defender. This has been discussed before, probably in this thread. |
I've always wondered what specific stats on both offense and defense were used when judging that Duncan was better. That's all. Or if it was more of an eye test or rings argument. |
it definitely aint eye test. duncan one boring mf |
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forreal tho. most exciting thing about him was a shot off the backboard. |
Fans can name so many Kobe moments over the years.
The dunk in MSG
The 81 point game
62 in 3 quarters (outscoring a Finals bound team by himself! )
The dunk in Minnesota in the playoffs
The ally oop to Shaq
The 2 clutch shots in Portland to win the division
The dunk on Dwight
The impossible shots to sink the Suns in the playoffs
Game 4 vs Indiana...
And on and on and on and on.
Now someone tell me what moments in Duncan’s career are timeless?
I remember the shot over Shaq right before Fisher’s miracle.
Can’t recall any other signature moments.
And to be clear, I’m not talking about averages...just moments where a legend says
“See me, bi***es” _________________ Mamba Made Moments Meticulously Magnificent |
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