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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:12 am Post subject: |
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PayasoLoco wrote: | Looks like BI now putting up those huge numbers on the pelicans like AD was.... when this guy hits 25 well really miss what we had |
It's tough b/c the Lakers were under immense pressure to start contending. People sometimes forget we have an MVP/DPOY level player in AD who is only 26. So it's a completely justifiable trade from the Lakers standpoint.
Pels certainly have more runway to rebuild and they have a great foundation of young players for sure. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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ingle Starting Rotation
Joined: 17 Mar 2017 Posts: 960
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:21 am Post subject: |
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Always knew BI had it in him, our baby deer has become a humble beast.
Giving up on BI so early is probably the saddest thing I've encountered as a Laker fan after Kobe blowing out his achilles. |
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BadGuy Star Player
Joined: 13 May 2008 Posts: 3629
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:22 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | PayasoLoco wrote: | Looks like BI now putting up those huge numbers on the pelicans like AD was.... when this guy hits 25 well really miss what we had |
It's tough b/c the Lakers were under immense pressure to start contending. People sometimes forget we have an MVP/DPOY level player in AD who is only 26. So it's a completely justifiable trade from the Lakers standpoint.
Pels certainly have more runway to rebuild and they have a great foundation of young players for sure. |
We don't "have" AD until he re-signs. BI was putting up better numbers on the Lakers post-all-star break last year than he is now on the Pelicans. |
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ingle Starting Rotation
Joined: 17 Mar 2017 Posts: 960
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:24 am Post subject: |
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ingle wrote: | God speed young drippa. Loved the kid since he's been drafted and it was immensely satisfying watching him take baby steps along the way, BI didn't back down for nobody! Lebron tried to trade him and he responded by turning into an absolute beast. Don't think I've been as invested in a young Laker's growth since Kobe.
No doubt this trade is even more motivation for BI to take the next step. He's not far away from becoming a monster that'll forever make us regret choosing Kuzma over him. |
From June 19 |
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ingle Starting Rotation
Joined: 17 Mar 2017 Posts: 960
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:28 am Post subject: |
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BadGuy wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | PayasoLoco wrote: | Looks like BI now putting up those huge numbers on the pelicans like AD was.... when this guy hits 25 well really miss what we had |
It's tough b/c the Lakers were under immense pressure to start contending. People sometimes forget we have an MVP/DPOY level player in AD who is only 26. So it's a completely justifiable trade from the Lakers standpoint.
Pels certainly have more runway to rebuild and they have a great foundation of young players for sure. |
We don't "have" AD until he re-signs. BI was putting up better numbers on the Lakers post-all-star break last year than he is now on the Pelicans. |
We know Lebron is running the Lakers right now. The kings ransom we gave up for Davis made no sense given the Laker's timeline - it is all about Lebron and what he wants.
If Davis resigns I can't argue against the trade since AD is a franchise type player - but there is no doubt we mortgaged our entire future and overpaid greatly to get AD one measly year before free agency, just because Lebron couldn't bear to waste another year of his late prime playing with the young guys. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:35 am Post subject: |
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BadGuy wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | PayasoLoco wrote: | Looks like BI now putting up those huge numbers on the pelicans like AD was.... when this guy hits 25 well really miss what we had |
It's tough b/c the Lakers were under immense pressure to start contending. People sometimes forget we have an MVP/DPOY level player in AD who is only 26. So it's a completely justifiable trade from the Lakers standpoint.
Pels certainly have more runway to rebuild and they have a great foundation of young players for sure. |
We don't "have" AD until he re-signs. BI was putting up better numbers on the Lakers post-all-star break last year than he is now on the Pelicans. |
We have AD until the end of the season.
And I'm 100% confident he will re-sign, but likely on a shorter 2+1 deal. I don't have any worries on that end.
BI has to stay healthy. That's the biggest impediment. But he's improved his game so I'm thinking he's also improved his body and ability to stay healthy. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:35 am Post subject: |
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ingle wrote: | ingle wrote: | God speed young drippa. Loved the kid since he's been drafted and it was immensely satisfying watching him take baby steps along the way, BI didn't back down for nobody! Lebron tried to trade him and he responded by turning into an absolute beast. Don't think I've been as invested in a young Laker's growth since Kobe.
No doubt this trade is even more motivation for BI to take the next step. He's not far away from becoming a monster that'll forever make us regret choosing Kuzma over him. |
From June 19 |
Except we didn't choose Kuzma over him? This is the most comical narrative. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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cencio_999 Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Nov 2019 Posts: 264
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:45 am Post subject: |
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He totally, I repeat TOTALLY, owned a 2 times DPOY
At 22 y.o.
Amazing |
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j-dawg Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 12177
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:53 am Post subject: |
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But but... Analytics
But but... Jason Tatum is better than him
But but... D’Angelo is better than him
But but... Kuzma is better than him
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lakers4life78 Star Player
Joined: 09 Apr 2012 Posts: 1985 Location: Southern California
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:33 am Post subject: |
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ingle wrote: | BadGuy wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | PayasoLoco wrote: | Looks like BI now putting up those huge numbers on the pelicans like AD was.... when this guy hits 25 well really miss what we had |
It's tough b/c the Lakers were under immense pressure to start contending. People sometimes forget we have an MVP/DPOY level player in AD who is only 26. So it's a completely justifiable trade from the Lakers standpoint.
Pels certainly have more runway to rebuild and they have a great foundation of young players for sure. |
We don't "have" AD until he re-signs. BI was putting up better numbers on the Lakers post-all-star break last year than he is now on the Pelicans. |
We know Lebron is running the Lakers right now. The kings ransom we gave up for Davis made no sense given the Laker's timeline - it is all about Lebron and what he wants.
If Davis resigns I can't argue against the trade since AD is a franchise type player - but there is no doubt we mortgaged our entire future and overpaid greatly to get AD one measly year before free agency, just because Lebron couldn't bear to waste another year of his late prime playing with the young guys. |
Lakers are 33-7, if they win a title, the trade was worth it.
Ingram is a stud, won't argue. He's a completely different player than he was as a Laker. He had potential, but never with any consistency. The rest of the future we traded? Hart, Ball, the 4th pick, and some picks that we won't know where they land (but likely won't be very high in the draft). Hardly call that our entire future.
AD is 26 too, not like he's 29 or 30 like Paul George. _________________ 17 time World Champions |
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cencio_999 Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Nov 2019 Posts: 264
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:53 am Post subject: |
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lakers4life78 wrote: | ingle wrote: | BadGuy wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | PayasoLoco wrote: | Looks like BI now putting up those huge numbers on the pelicans like AD was.... when this guy hits 25 well really miss what we had |
It's tough b/c the Lakers were under immense pressure to start contending. People sometimes forget we have an MVP/DPOY level player in AD who is only 26. So it's a completely justifiable trade from the Lakers standpoint.
Pels certainly have more runway to rebuild and they have a great foundation of young players for sure. |
We don't "have" AD until he re-signs. BI was putting up better numbers on the Lakers post-all-star break last year than he is now on the Pelicans. |
We know Lebron is running the Lakers right now. The kings ransom we gave up for Davis made no sense given the Laker's timeline - it is all about Lebron and what he wants.
If Davis resigns I can't argue against the trade since AD is a franchise type player - but there is no doubt we mortgaged our entire future and overpaid greatly to get AD one measly year before free agency, just because Lebron couldn't bear to waste another year of his late prime playing with the young guys. |
Lakers are 33-7, if they win a title, the trade was worth it.
Ingram is a stud, won't argue. He's a completely different player than he was as a Laker. He had potential, but never with any consistency. The rest of the future we traded? Hart, Ball, the 4th pick, and some picks that we won't know where they land (but likely won't be very high in the draft). Hardly call that our entire future.
AD is 26 too, not like he's 29 or 30 like Paul George. |
I'm sorry, but it's too easy to say he's a different player (like Earvin Johnson said of Dlo last year), had potential but never show consistency.
That's why talent evaluation is the hardest task for a Front Office.
Otherwise only the likes of Embiid and Doncic (that anybody could see have written future HOFers all over them) are the untouchables.
That being said, we traded him for Davis, and it was worth it (knock on wood for him being a lakers for a long time).
But let's not pretend Ingram's current development (as those of DeAngelo and Julius) was something that a capable FO couldn't envisage while they were still lakers. |
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LakerSanity Moderator
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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If we win a title, the AD trade was worth it. If we don't, it wasn't. Those who were for the AD trade said it was more likely we'd win a title eventually with the young guys than it being likely we'd win a title with AD. Those were for the AD trade thought the opposite. Hindsight will prove one side right and one side wrong.
That said, without the benefit of hindsight, knowing what we knew at the time (especially in regards to BI's injury and the possibility of Kawhi), you do the trade 10 times out of 10.
Still, as one of BI's greatest fans on this board, it really stung at the time to lose him. I can honestly say nothing he is doing now suprises me. I kept updating the 1st page of this thread because it was clear his progression foretold this and it was only a matter of time. That he is doing it this soon just aligns with what was probably my most optimistic projection. Really curious to see whether Zion's return helps or hurts him. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
Twitter: @DeleteThisPost |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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LakerSanity wrote: | If we win a title, the AD trade was worth it. If we don't, it wasn't. Those who were for the AD trade said it was more likely we'd win a title eventually with the young guys than it being likely we'd win a title with AD. Those were for the AD trade thought the opposite. Hindsight will prove one side right and one side wrong.
That said, without the benefit of hindsight, knowing what we knew at the time (especially in regards to BI's injury and the possibility of Kawhi), you do the trade 10 times out of 10.
Still, as one of BI's greatest fans on this board, it really stung at the time to lose him. I can honestly say nothing he is doing now suprises me. I kept updating the 1st page of this thread because it was clear his progression foretold this and it was only a matter of time. That he is doing it this soon just aligns with what was probably my most optimistic projection. Really curious to see whether Zion's return helps or hurts him. |
Yup. You were pro-BI from the start, even when he had some rough beginning stages. Kudos to you and others who saw that. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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LakerSanity wrote: | If we win a title, the AD trade was worth it. If we don't, it wasn't. Those who were against the AD trade said it was more likely we'd win a title eventually with the young guys than it being likely we'd win a title with AD. Those were for the AD trade thought the opposite. Hindsight will prove one side right and one side wrong.
That said, without the benefit of hindsight, knowing what we knew at the time (especially in regards to BI's injury and the possibility of Kawhi), you do the trade 10 times out of 10.
Still, as one of BI's greatest fans on this board, it really stung at the time to lose him. I can honestly say nothing he is doing now suprises me. I kept updating the 1st page of this thread because it was clear his progression foretold this and it was only a matter of time. That he is doing it this soon just aligns with what was probably my most optimistic projection. Really curious to see whether Zion's return helps or hurts him. |
You had a typo, as indicated by the correction in red. If Ingram stays healthy and maintains his current production, it will be impressive. The metrics don't love him, though, especially his defense. I've been hoping that someone like Ben Taylor will do a neutral analysis of his game. |
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PayasoLoco Franchise Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2001 Posts: 16663
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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j-dawg wrote: | But but... Analytics
But but... Jason Tatum is better than him
But but... D’Angelo is better than him
But but... Kuzma is better than him
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but but hes too skinny and weak |
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unleasHell Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001 Posts: 11591 Location: Stay Thirsty my Friends
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Ingram had certainly shown flashes of greatness during his three seasons with the Lakers and was fun to watch. but after missing only 3 games in his first year, 23 in his second year and 30 games in his third year, the Lakers made the right decision in moving him.
Currently Ingram is 12th in the NBA in scoring, while Ad is 7th and LeBron is 13th...
I don't recall Ingram being an above average defender, but I could be wrong he he may still improve.
If Walton had been replaced by Vogel last season and could have gotten them playing some decent defense, who knows what would have happened... _________________ “Always remember... Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.” |
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ingle Starting Rotation
Joined: 17 Mar 2017 Posts: 960
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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cencio_999 wrote: |
I'm sorry, but it's too easy to say he's a different player (like Earvin Johnson said of Dlo last year), had potential but never show consistency.
That's why talent evaluation is the hardest task for a Front Office.
Otherwise only the likes of Embiid and Doncic (that anybody could see have written future HOFers all over them) are the untouchables.
That being said, we traded him for Davis, and it was worth it (knock on wood for him being a lakers for a long time).
But let's not pretend Ingram's current development (as those of DeAngelo and Julius) was something that a capable FO couldn't envisage while they were still lakers. |
Yes, Perception and reality aren't always aligned and for some reason BI had a false reputation across the league as not a winning player. Given our FO watches BI every day it is inexcusable to give up on BI when his value to the overall market was its low point.
The Laker organisation should have known better, a 21 year old KD was developing under their eyes and they gave him up for 2 cents on the dollar.
As fans we saw BI improve his game every single season, and even within seasons themselves
We saw that BI had all the skills and a good feel for the game, point guard skills with freakish center type length
We saw that BI had that dog in him, that quiet will to win and compete.
Those are superstar type attributes, for us to give up on BI in that manner has LeGM's fingerprints all over it. |
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ingle Starting Rotation
Joined: 17 Mar 2017 Posts: 960
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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unleasHell wrote: | Ingram had certainly shown flashes of greatness during his three seasons with the Lakers and was fun to watch. but after missing only 3 games in his first year, 23 in his second year and 30 games in his third year, the Lakers made the right decision in moving him.
Currently Ingram is 12th in the NBA in scoring, while Ad is 7th and LeBron is 13th...
I don't recall Ingram being an above average defender, but I could be wrong he he may still improve.
If Walton had been replaced by Vogel last season and could have gotten them playing some decent defense, who knows what would have happened... |
And we could have had AD this offseason since we knew he wasnt resigning with the Pelicans, and kept Ingram, Zo, Hart and all our future picks.
The only way to justify the overpay is a title this season, no less. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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ingle wrote: | unleasHell wrote: | Ingram had certainly shown flashes of greatness during his three seasons with the Lakers and was fun to watch. but after missing only 3 games in his first year, 23 in his second year and 30 games in his third year, the Lakers made the right decision in moving him.
Currently Ingram is 12th in the NBA in scoring, while Ad is 7th and LeBron is 13th...
I don't recall Ingram being an above average defender, but I could be wrong he he may still improve.
If Walton had been replaced by Vogel last season and could have gotten them playing some decent defense, who knows what would have happened... |
And we could have had AD this offseason since we knew he wasnt resigning with the Pelicans, and kept Ingram, Zo, Hart and all our future picks.
The only way to justify the overpay is a title this season, no less. |
Not sure about the numbers. Adding in BI/Zo's cap hold with LBJ and other signings, we would not have the room for AD. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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j-dawg Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 12177
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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PayasoLoco wrote: | j-dawg wrote: | But but... Analytics
But but... Jason Tatum is better than him
But but... D’Angelo is better than him
But but... Kuzma is better than him
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but but hes too skinny and weak |
I know that numbers are not the end game, but imagine if
- Jason Tatum
- Jayden Brown
- Ben Simmons
- D’Angelo Russell
- Kyle Kuzma
Were putting up 25.8 points, 6.8 rebounds, 4.3 assists while shooting 48% from the field, 40% from 3 (on 6 attempts per game)
Imagine the ridiculous hoopla we would see from the (ridiculously bias east coast) media and even people around these parts...
BSPN would literally (bleep) themselves ALREADY if Tatum or Simmons did that for just a 5 game stretch |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144504 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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ingle wrote: | Always knew BI had it in him, our baby deer has become a humble beast.
Giving up on BI so early is probably the saddest thing I've encountered as a Laker fan after Kobe blowing out his achilles. |
But it pales in comparison to what Philly did with Fultz. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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SocalDevin Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016 Posts: 7825 Location: Long Beach
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | ingle wrote: | Always knew BI had it in him, our baby deer has become a humble beast.
Giving up on BI so early is probably the saddest thing I've encountered as a Laker fan after Kobe blowing out his achilles. |
But it pales in comparison to what Philly did with Fultz. |
Agreed, he seems like a good kid too.. Glad he's turned it around. |
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ibij Starting Rotation
Joined: 04 May 2009 Posts: 836
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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LBJ signing changed everything for Lakers. now and the future. |
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mookielala Star Player
Joined: 29 Jul 2012 Posts: 3026
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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Have to admit he is still my favorite NBA player. I'm glad we got out of the permanent cellar, but I miss watching the young guys develop. |
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justsomelakerfan Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2016 Posts: 10939
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Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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I literally never doubted him. _________________ Austin Reaves
Tweeter: @sarah_dotbiz |
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