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dinlabreak
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 Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:30 am Post subject: Muharrum |
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Today (Sunday) marks the first day of Muharram, which starts the 10 day mourning period of Imam Hussein. I'm sure many of you have heard about this due to the war in Iraq. It is when the Shi'a come together to mourn the killing of the 3rd Imam (Imam Hussein) Below are two links for anyone that is interested in the story behind Ashura, a very sad and emotional story that I hope both Muslims and Non-Muslims would take the time to read.
http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=2595
http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=2594 |
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Flight#24
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| Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Muharrum |
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| dinlabreak wrote: | Today (Sunday) marks the first day of Muharram, which starts the 10 day mourning period of Imam Hussein. I'm sure many of you have heard about this due to the war in Iraq. It is when the Shi'a come together to mourn the killing of the 3rd Imam (Imam Hussein) Below are two links for anyone that is interested in the story behind Ashura, a very sad and emotional story that I hope both Muslims and Non-Muslims would take the time to read.
http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=2595
http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=2594 |
Having studied the religion, Shi'as aren't Muslims. It is sort of analogous to Mormons and Christians. |
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dinlabreak
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| Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| So whats your reasoning behind such an ignorant statement like that. |
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Flight#24
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| Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| dinlabreak wrote: | | So whats your reasoning behind such an ignorant statement like that. |
What was so ignorant about my statement? 
I didn't say anything bad or good? I had no stance, I was merely just clarifying that Shi'as almost have another religion of its own only with some Islamic background...just like how Mormonism is almost another religion of its own with a Christianity background.
I am not really sure if you know the definition of "ignorant."
My previous post was only informational.
Anyways if you still like I offended you or want to have a further discuss, you could PM me if you want. |
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Surfitall
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| That's an interesting comparison. I suspect they'd prefer something more along the lines of Catholics vs. Protestants. Different sects of the same religion, both following Muhammad. |
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Flight#24
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Surfitall wrote: | | That's an interesting comparison. I suspect they'd prefer something more along the lines of Catholics vs. Protestants. Different sects of the same religion, both following Muhammad. |
That is where is it differs. Being an expert at the religious field and having studied the history from different perspectives, they don't follow the ways of Muhammad. Many critical rules and regulation differs to such an extent, they are not considered Muslims, rather they have their own religion (the closest example I can think of is Mormonism in terms of being different).
They are generally recognized by their apparent excessive love for Hadhrat Ali (RA) and his children. They know Hadhrat Ali (RA) to be better than Hadhrat Abu Bakr (RA) and Hadhrat Umar (RA). They believe in twelve Imams, they have a traditional ceremony in the month of Murraham because of Hadhrat Hussain’s martyrdom in it, usually they wear black clothes...
Most Iranians and Iraqis are Shiites. There is an association with Allamah Khomeini, the leader of the Iranian revolution in terms of history. |
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mbloves L.A.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:31 am Post subject: |
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Basic difference is that the Shiites believe that the caliphate belonged to the descendants of Muhammad (SAW) whereas Sunnis believe that Muhammad (SAW) chose the ones better fit for ruling and leading after his death. (Abu Bakr ad Umar).
Shiite and Sunnis believe that their path is correct. Thus we have Iraq a massive sandstorm of violence toward brothers. But tell me does it really matter who controls the caliphate? I think it is more important to spread peace than to be an intolerant jackass to everyone, way to do a disservice in the name of Islam.
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dinlabreak
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:10 am Post subject: |
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If you claim to be such an expert in the religious field then explain to me how Shias don't follow the teachings of Prophet Muhammad. If you have studied the history then have you read about Ghadeer Khum? This is where the Prophet himself appointed Imam Ali his successor. This is not just in Shia books, but also in Sunni books. Here is the link to that:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_the_pond_of_Khumm
Is this not a historical fact? This event is both in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, considered by Sunni's to be the most factual book behind the Quran. Obviously you haven't done your research, The 12 Imams are an extension of the Prophet, they countinued to preach the teachings of the Prophet and the Quran. And how dare you claim Shia are not Muslims, what are the differences the Shia have that make them non-Muslims? I would love for you to give me clear evidence that show Shia do not follow the teachings of the Prophet. And just in case you find none of this to be true, here is a direct hadith from a SUNNI source, which further proves the following of the Imams is the correct path in Islam: Fara'id al-Simtayn (by Al-Juwayni):
"I am the chief of the Prophets and Ali ibn Abi Talib is the chief of successors, and after me my successors shall be twelve, the first of them being Ali ibn Abi Talib and the last of them being Al Mahdi." ...
"Certainly my Caliphs and my legatees and the Proofs of Allah upon his creatures after me are twelve. The first of them is my brother and the last of them is my (grand) son."
He was asked: "O Messenger of Allah, who is your brother?"
He said, "Ali ibn Abi Talib"
Then they asked, "And who is your son?"
The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) replied, "Al Mahdi, the one who will fill the earth with justice and equity like it would be brimming with injustice and tyranny. And by the One Who has raised me as a warner and a give of good tidings, even if a day remains for the life of this world, the Almighty Allah will prolong this day to an extent till he sends my son Mahdi, then he will make Ruhullah 'Isa ibn Maryam (a.s.) to descend and pray behind him (Mahdi). And the earth will be illuminated by his radiance. And his power will reach to the east and the west."[7] ...
"I and Ali and Hasan and Husayn and nine of the descendants of Husayn are the purified ones and the infallible." [8]
Here is the link that further speaks of the twelve successors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_the_Twelve_Successors
Furthermore, Sunni's reject the Shia Imams and have their own list, which includes Yazid, who has been denounced by some Sunni scholars as being a Non-believer. Yazid is the man who was responsible for the killing of the Prophet's Grandson Imam Hussein. So I ask you how Shia have their own religion? Shia followed the orders of the Prophet, not creating a religion of their own as you claim. If anything Sunni's have branched off doing their own thing, there are many examples of this and one simple example is the way that they do the Wudhu is done differently, which is the wrong way because the Quran says otherwise. And if you want to take a shot at Shia not being Muslim then please do your research on Wahabbism, which is derived from the Sunni sect. You call yourself an expert but you have so much to learn. |
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Exick
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:21 am Post subject: |
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If the closest analogous situation you can think of is Mormons and Christianity, then this is just a silly argument. Mormons consider themselves Christian just as much as Shi'ites consider themselves Muslim. The Mormon church is not called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints because they don't follow Jesus' teachings.
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20,000
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:48 am Post subject: |
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Just to bring it back a little, I find this topic fascinating, but I don't think we need personal slams or calling each other ignorant and so on.
The way I understood the difference is that both sects followed a different path from Muhammed. They both acknowledge the importance of Muhammed (otherwise is it really Islam?), but as people mentioned, some believe that the rightful heir was the uncle, and the others think it was someone else.
I just can't fathom the idea that there would be so much fighting over which man best exemplified Muhammed's words. And this goes for all religions, not just Islam. Protestants and Catholics have this same problem.
Seriously, does it matter which end of the egg is best for cracking?
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20,000
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:51 am Post subject: |
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By the way, for the experts here, how can you tell a Shi'a from a Sunni? There are massive genocides and targeting of both, yet how can anyone tell? Does one sect dress differently from the other? Does one have different name formats? Can you look at one and just tell? Do they speak differently?
In terms of government, does one govern differently than the other?
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mbloves L.A.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| encina1 wrote: | By the way, for the experts here, how can you tell a Shi'a from a Sunni? There are massive genocides and targeting of both, yet how can anyone tell? Does one sect dress differently from the other? Does one have different name formats? Can you look at one and just tell? Do they speak differently?
In terms of government, does one govern differently than the other? |
Dude, I have no Idea. Here is another question, how do you tell apart penguins because I just can't.
"Yeah that one's Jimmy and that's Johnny, this one is Mike and this one is rascal, we were gonna call him Pascal because he totally looks like him, but thought no one would get the reference"
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Flight#24
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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dinlabreak:
I never said anything bad about Shiites or Sunnis. If you look at my posts it was only informational. By your tone in your post, it makes you seem intolerant.
If you want to have a further discussion in this matter, please PM me.
BTW I have sent you a PM with the evidence you requested since I don't to have a political discussion in a public forum.
Last edited by Flight#24 on Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Flight#24
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| mbloves L.A. wrote: | Basic difference is that the Shiites believe that the caliphate belonged to the descendants of Muhammad (SAW) whereas Sunnis believe that Muhammad (SAW) chose the ones better fit for ruling and leading after his death. (Abu Bakr ad Umar).
Shiite and Sunnis believe that their path is correct. Thus we have Iraq a massive sandstorm of violence toward brothers. But tell me does it really matter who controls the caliphate? I think it is more important to spread peace than to be an intolerant jackass to everyone, way to do a disservice in the name of Islam. |
BINGO!
Exactly, people advocating and participating in actions aren't really Muslims at all because they aren't following the teachings of Islam. It rather stems from national pride or religious zeal. |
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Flight#24
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| encina1 wrote: | By the way, for the experts here, how can you tell a Shi'a from a Sunni? There are massive genocides and targeting of both, yet how can anyone tell? Does one sect dress differently from the other? Does one have different name formats? Can you look at one and just tell? Do they speak differently?
In terms of government, does one govern differently than the other? |
Obviously from physical appearance one cannot tell the difference. How can anyone tell difference between Catholics, Mormons, Protestants by simply the physical structure.
The difference is in the teachings,ethics or moral standards. That aspect is true for any sects of a religion whether it is Judaism, Islam or Christianity. |
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20,000
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Flight#24 wrote: | | encina1 wrote: | By the way, for the experts here, how can you tell a Shi'a from a Sunni? There are massive genocides and targeting of both, yet how can anyone tell? Does one sect dress differently from the other? Does one have different name formats? Can you look at one and just tell? Do they speak differently?
In terms of government, does one govern differently than the other? |
Obviously from physical appearance one cannot tell the difference. How can anyone tell difference between Catholics, Mormons, Protestants by simply the physical structure.
The difference is in the teachings,ethics or moral standards. That aspect is true for any sects of a religion whether it is Judaism, Islam or Christianity. |
I thought that, but there are physical signs. You can tell who the Amish are. You can tell who the Orthodox Jews are. That is why when you read about the targeting of certain sects, the way Saddam Hussein and others did/do, I am curious how they can pick out who is who and kill only those.
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Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying...'I will try again tomorrow.' |
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Surfitall
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Flight#24 wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | That's an interesting comparison. I suspect they'd prefer something more along the lines of Catholics vs. Protestants. Different sects of the same religion, both following Muhammad. |
That is where is it differs. Being an expert at the religious field and having studied the history from different perspectives, they don't follow the ways of Muhammad. Many critical rules and regulation differs to such an extent, they are not considered Muslims, rather they have their own religion (the closest example I can think of is Mormonism in terms of being different).
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"Being an expert at the religious field"? Ugh. Have you ever heard the phrase, "A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing."? To me, your expertise sounds like you know bits and pieces of historical fact, but to say that Sunni's are not followers of Muhammad is kind of kookie to put it politely. Bits and pieces of history and wild interpretations sound like opinions alright, but not expert ones. |
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Flight#24
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Surfitall wrote: | | Flight#24 wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | That's an interesting comparison. I suspect they'd prefer something more along the lines of Catholics vs. Protestants. Different sects of the same religion, both following Muhammad. |
That is where is it differs. Being an expert at the religious field and having studied the history from different perspectives, they don't follow the ways of Muhammad. Many critical rules and regulation differs to such an extent, they are not considered Muslims, rather they have their own religion (the closest example I can think of is Mormonism in terms of being different).
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"Being an expert at the religious field"? Ugh. Have you ever heard the phrase, "A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing."? To me, your expertise sounds like you know bits and pieces of historical fact, but to say that Sunni's are not followers of Muhammad is kind of kookie to put it politely. Bits and pieces of history and wild interpretations sound like opinions alright, but not expert ones. |
Sorry when did I say that? That is exactly the opposite of what I said.
Also when I said that I was an expert I didn't mean to brag or act as if I know everything. I only said that to add credibility to my post regarding that matter.
Also since this is an internet forum, I write in a colloquial manner. I hardly ever look for idiom or grammar errors.
Last edited by Flight#24 on Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Flight#24
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| encina1 wrote: | | Flight#24 wrote: | | encina1 wrote: | By the way, for the experts here, how can you tell a Shi'a from a Sunni? There are massive genocides and targeting of both, yet how can anyone tell? Does one sect dress differently from the other? Does one have different name formats? Can you look at one and just tell? Do they speak differently?
In terms of government, does one govern differently than the other? |
Obviously from physical appearance one cannot tell the difference. How can anyone tell difference between Catholics, Mormons, Protestants by simply the physical structure.
The difference is in the teachings,ethics or moral standards. That aspect is true for any sects of a religion whether it is Judaism, Islam or Christianity. |
I thought that, but there are physical signs. You can tell who the Amish are. You can tell who the Orthodox Jews are. That is why when you read about the targeting of certain sects, the way Saddam Hussein and others did/do, I am curious how they can pick out who is who and kill only those. |
To be frank I really am not sure I agree with you with the physical signs of certain sects. My best assumption would be that if one lives in a certain area, one would already know who the Sunnis or the Shiites are.
For example, most know who the Jews, Christians, and Muslims are in their area only because they have lived in that area for so long. But there may be physical signs too. |
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Surfitall
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| Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Flight#24 wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | Flight#24 wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | That's an interesting comparison. I suspect they'd prefer something more along the lines of Catholics vs. Protestants. Different sects of the same religion, both following Muhammad. |
That is where is it differs. Being an expert at the religious field and having studied the history from different perspectives, they don't follow the ways of Muhammad. Many critical rules and regulation differs to such an extent, they are not considered Muslims, rather they have their own religion (the closest example I can think of is Mormonism in terms of being different).
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"Being an expert at the religious field"? Ugh. Have you ever heard the phrase, "A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing."? To me, your expertise sounds like you know bits and pieces of historical fact, but to say that Sunni's are not followers of Muhammad is kind of kookie to put it politely. Bits and pieces of history and wild interpretations sound like opinions alright, but not expert ones. |
Sorry when did I say that? That is exactly the opposite of what I said.
Also when I said that I was an expert I didn't mean to brag or act as if I know everything. I only said that to add credibility to my post regarding that matter.
Also since this is an internet forum, I write in a colloquial manner. I hardly ever look for idiom or grammar errors. |
The exact opposite of what you said? I quoted it for you, but I'll quote it again. You said, "...they don't follow the ways of Muhammad." Now to me, if you are saying, "they don't follow the ways of Muhammad", then that means you are saying that they are not considered "followers of Muhammad". Then, you went even further by saying, "...they are not considered Muslims."
I don't think I was making a huge leap of logic to think that based on your statement.
Stating that you are an expert on the subject adds zero credibility to your statements. I mean, can you imagine going into the main LG forum and saying, "As an expert on the subject of basketball, and having studied each team from different perspectives...yada yada yada." You'd be crucified! The credibility of what you say rests on what you post. |
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Flight#24
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| Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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This is the exact quote.
| Quote: | | but to say that Sunni's are not followers of Muhammad is kind of kookie to put it politely. |
And I said:
| Quote: | That is where is it differs. Being an expert at the religious field and having studied the history from different perspectives, they don't follow the ways of Muhammad. Many critical rules and regulation differs to such an extent, they are not considered Muslims, rather they have their own religion (the closest example I can think of is Mormonism in terms of being different).
They are generally recognized by their apparent excessive love for Hadhrat Ali (RA) and his children. They know Hadhrat Ali (RA) to be better than Hadhrat Abu Bakr (RA) and Hadhrat Umar (RA). They believe in twelve Imams, they have a traditional ceremony in the month of Murraham because of Hadhrat Hussain’s martyrdom in it, usually they wear black clothes...
Most Iranians and Iraqis are Shiites. There is an association with Allamah Khomeini, the leader of the Iranian revolution in terms of history |
I wasn't talking about the Sunnis. Obviously I was referring to the Shiites when I said they [Shiites] do not fully follow Muhammad.
| Quote: | | The credibility of what you say rests on what you post. |
Sure. I do not mean to brag, but quite frankly what I posted was basically touching the tip of the iceberg in terms of factual evidence and since this is a public forum I did not want go into a detailed debate about a religious topic. If you want I can PM you with some detailed explanation, but to understand it you would need some background knowledge in this matter, which I don't know you have or care to have.
To be completely honest, I really could care less of what "you" think of me. I am just being honest. I mean after all this is the internet and I don't know the posters individually.
I am only stating of what I think of this matter, and someone else disagrees...well then so be it. You are entitled to your own opinion. There is no reason to question a person's credibility or knowledge. |
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TheRod
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| Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:54 am Post subject: |
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I really didn't want to jump into this thread, but thought I should make some clarifications. I think what the OP is saying is this...in order to be Muslim one must believe in a single God, a one and only Almighty. One, then, can be a muslim Jew, a muslim Christian, a muslim Mormon, and a muslim who follows the path of Islam. As long as belief in a single divine creator is maintained.
The Shi'a sect follow certain protocols that most would consider to be against the teachings of Islam, and against the muslim ideology of a one and only God. As mentioned above, the Shi'a have a very strong affinity towards Ali, the first Imam and the uncle/cousin of the Prophet Muhammad. This affinity goes so far as to creating idol images of Ali including coins, pendants, and necklaces. Idol whorship is against Islamic teaching, and considered non-muslim.
The Twelfth Imam...Imam Zaman/al-mahdi/mehdi...dissappeared shortly after succeeding the Imamate. It is believed by the Shi'a--Twelver Shi'a's and the Ismaili's--that Imam Zaman will return during the day of Judgment. This belief places Zaman into a very powerful, almost God-like position. Most would agree that being a savior figure places Zaman above Muhammad and on par with the divine--making this ideology the opposite of Islamic teachings, and the muslim way.
Twelver Shia's also have a completely different chronology than Sunni's, which, I think, is where the original poster is going with his remark regarding Shi'a's and a separate religion.
One more thing. Muslims believe that "there is only one God, and Muhammad is his prophet." The Imam's position in Shi'a Islam is on par with Muhammad. According to Shi'a belief, the Imam is chosen by God to teach and guide humans. Contrary to the quote.
I made my explanations as brief as I possibly could, and I do not want this thread to be locked, so I will avoid replying as much as I can.
Happy Ashora.  |
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Surfitall
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| Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| Flight#24 wrote: |
To be completely honest, I really could care less of what "you" think of me. I am just being honest. I mean after all this is the internet and I don't know the posters individually.
I am only stating of what I think of this matter, and someone else disagrees...well then so be it. You are entitled to your own opinion. There is no reason to question a person's credibility or knowledge. |
I don't think of you at all, but I do bristle when I read a post where someon claims to be an "expert" in a forum like this. If you are only stating your opinion, which is obviously what you are doing, then why would you go out of your way to make us believe that it is in fact, an "expert opinion". There is a difference by the way. If someone is truly an expert, that opinion would often carry more weight than the opinion of others. If you were Houston Smith, I might weigh your opinion on religion a little heavier than someone elses, but since this is typically an anonymous forum where a claim is nothing more than a claim and which brings absolutely nothing to the table. Clearly you care about what I think about your posts (not you), or you wouldn't be replying to my posts. (There is nothing personal about any of this...we're all Lakers fans, so ultimately, we are all on the same side...at least in the context of this forum.)
So, now that you have clarified your post, I understand what you are saying, and why you thought I was saying the "exact opposite" of what you were saying. You are saying that followers of Shia Islam are not followers of Muhammad, but that followers of Sunni Islam are considered followers of Muhammad. To me, Sunni and Shia are have a great deal in common, and both religions adhere to the teachings of Muhammad. Yes, both have very different "rules and regulations" and history, but both sects are widely considered the two largest denominations of the Islamic faith. Again, to claim that followers of Shi'a Islam are not also considered followers of Muhammad is not only against conventional wisdom, and yes, a bit kookie, but would probably also be considered offensive to those who follow that sect of Islam.
Here is Wikipedia's explanation of Shia Islam, just for those who want what would generally be considered an unbiased explanation of Shia Islam. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiite Isn't it interesting how terms like "apparent excessive love for..." are absent from the Wikipedia description.
And by the way, I have no skin in this game. I am not a Muslim, or a Christian for that matter. If you haven't already guessed, I'm for bringing people together and pointing out the similarities, not for pulling people apart and highlighting the differences. |
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Flight#24
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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I am not talking about myself, but in general don't you think different experts have different arguments and agreements for the same topic?
| Quote: | | Clearly you care about what I think about your posts (not you), or you wouldn't be replying to my posts. (There is nothing personal about any of this...we're all Lakers fans, so ultimately, we are all on the same side...at least in the context of this forum.) |
Notice how you replied to my original post, which then in return I replied to your comment. I am not the one who replied first.
| Quote: |
Here is Wikipedia's explanation of Shia Islam, just for those who want what would generally be considered an unbiased explanation of Shia Islam. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiite Isn't it interesting how terms like "apparent excessive love for..." are absent from the Wikipedia description. |
Please do not tell me wikipedia is your only source. If you truly want to research in this matter or any matter in general, you have look at many different sources from a variety of perspectives. Remember the cliche, don't believe everything you hear, and believe half the things you see.
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I'm for bringing people together and pointing out the similarities, not for pulling people apart and highlighting the differences. |
Did you just pull that, "I am trying to unify the nations by highlighting the similarities not the differences" card?  Differences are what makes each of us unique individuals. Obviously there are blatant difference that one cannot just ignore to acknowledge. Acknowledging the differences doesn't create segregation (in fact it creates respect), but differentiating between the differences and pointing out which is better than the other does create separation.
Good insights TheRod. You made a very neutral post with some great information.
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To me, Sunni and Shia are have a great deal in common, and both religions adhere to the teachings of Muhammad. Yes, both have very different "rules and regulations" and history, but both sects are widely considered the two largest denominations of the Islamic faith. |
These "rules and regulations" were created by Muhammad (PBUH). When one of these "sects" differ in "rules and regulations," is that "sect" adhering to the teachings of Muhammad(PBUH)? For one to be a Muslim one has to believe that there is none worthy of worship but Allah (God) and Muhammad (PBUH) is his last messenger. And that person from then on has to follow (or at least try their best to follow) everything according to God and Muhammad (PBUH). For example it is compulsory for Muslims to pray 5 times a day. Now if one doesn't pray he is sinning a great deal, but if one doesn't acknowledge that it is compulsory for Muslims to pray 5 times a day (for example if one say,"No Muslims do not have to pray."), then that person is no longer a Muslim because that person is not adhering to the teachings of Muhammad (PBUH) which was set by Allah (God). This is just one random example, but there are some pivotal "rules and regulations" that Muslims must follow and if someone does not even acknowledge those pivotal "rules and regulations" then that person is not a Muslim.
Again Surfitall, if you want a detailed explanation about this matter, just PM me. Do not reply (that is if want to reply) to my post as I will not be replying to your comments about this matter any longer in this forum from now on. I really do not want to get into a big debate about this matter in a public forum. Also if you believe something that is contrary to what I said, that is perfectly fine. I respect your opinion about the "Catholics vs. Protestants," comparison because at least you acknowledge there is some kind of difference between the two. |
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999
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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