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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67744 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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Barry Brodd's, (defense expert on the use of force witness), refusal to admit Chauvin's knee was on top of George Floyd's neck ruined his credibility. He's asking you not to believe your lying eyes. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67744 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:58 am Post subject: |
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Both sides rest. Closing arguments and jury instructions Monday. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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dcastillo Star Player
Joined: 20 May 2009 Posts: 2172
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Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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So Monday will decide what happens? |
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LarryCoon Site Staff
Joined: 11 Aug 2002 Posts: 11266
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Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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dcastillo wrote: | So Monday will decide what happens? |
Depends on how long the jury deliberates. But also, given the publicity and the tension all around, if the jury tells the judge they've reached a verdict, the judge could decide to wait (for example, to the next day), which will give law enforcement more time to prepare. |
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dcastillo Star Player
Joined: 20 May 2009 Posts: 2172
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Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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LarryCoon wrote: | dcastillo wrote: | So Monday will decide what happens? |
Depends on how long the jury deliberates. But also, given the publicity and the tension all around, if the jury tells the judge they've reached a verdict, the judge could decide to wait (for example, to the next day), which will give law enforcement more time to prepare. |
Aww got you. Thanks! |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67744 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:04 am Post subject: |
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LarryCoon wrote: | dcastillo wrote: | So Monday will decide what happens? |
Depends on how long the jury deliberates. But also, given the publicity and the tension all around, if the jury tells the judge they've reached a verdict, the judge could decide to wait (for example, to the next day), which will give law enforcement more time to prepare. |
I detect you thinking Chauvin may be found not guilty and LE has to prepare for riots.
I don't think he'll be found not guilty. I anticipate a hung jury. I also don't think this will happen Monday.
If the jury comes back quickly I think it will mean a guilty verdict. If the deliberation is elongated I think it will mean a hung jury.
Do you think jury instructions will be made public? They will play a large part in the decision. If the public is made aware of them they may weigh heavily on the acceptance of the verdict. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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DaMuleRules Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52660 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:24 am Post subject: |
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Unfortunately I think a hung jury is the more likely outcome. Not because the guilt isn’t obvious, it’s the just way this country is. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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LarryCoon Site Staff
Joined: 11 Aug 2002 Posts: 11266
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:05 am Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: | I detect you thinking Chauvin may be found not guilty and LE has to prepare for riots.
I don't think he'll be found not guilty. I anticipate a hung jury. I also don't think this will happen Monday. |
Don't read too much into what I said. There are three possible outcomes, and the law enforcement have to have a plan in place for all of them. |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67744 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:17 am Post subject: |
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LarryCoon wrote: | jodeke wrote: | I detect you thinking Chauvin may be found not guilty and LE has to prepare for riots.
I don't think he'll be found not guilty. I anticipate a hung jury. I also don't think this will happen Monday. |
Don't read too much into what I said. There are three possible outcomes, and the law enforcement have to have a plan in place for all of them. |
If I may? What are those possibilities and what would be the preps for each? _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Dr. Laker Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002 Posts: 17109
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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I doubt that the jury hangs on all counts.
Most likely is hung jury on Murder 2, guilty on Murder 3 & Manslaughter. _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: | LarryCoon wrote: | jodeke wrote: | I detect you thinking Chauvin may be found not guilty and LE has to prepare for riots.
I don't think he'll be found not guilty. I anticipate a hung jury. I also don't think this will happen Monday. |
Don't read too much into what I said. There are three possible outcomes, and the law enforcement have to have a plan in place for all of them. |
If I may? What are those possibilities and what would be the preps for each? |
Conviction
Acquittal
Hung jury
Cops need to prepare for the worst, which is wide spread civil unrest. And have plans for everything between that and nothing. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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Minnesota Deploys National Guard _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31964 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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Dr. Laker wrote: | I doubt that the jury hangs on all counts.
Most likely is hung jury on Murder 2, guilty on Murder 3 & Manslaughter. |
Definitely agree with you on the latter 2. Still think he could be found guilty on 2nd degree murder, but wouldn't surprise me at all if it's hung there or that he could even be acquitted on that charge. Not because he should be, mind you. There is no doubt in my mind that he's guilty of all charges. |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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My best guess is there’s a better than even chance he is convicted on the lowest charge, a less than even chance on the middle, and a really slim chance on murder 2. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67744 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Dr. Laker wrote: | I doubt that the jury hangs on all counts.
Most likely is hung jury on Murder 2, guilty on Murder 3 & Manslaughter. |
Can you have a hung jury and a guilty verdict in charges? Asking can Chauvin get a hung jury and a guilty verdict in this trial? If so can the hung jury cause a retrial on that charge? _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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SweetP Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 6054 Location: My own little piece of reality
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: | Dr. Laker wrote: | I doubt that the jury hangs on all counts.
Most likely is hung jury on Murder 2, guilty on Murder 3 & Manslaughter. |
Can you have hung jury and guilty verdicts in filings? Asking can Chauvin get a hung jury and a guilty verdict in this trial? If so can the hung jury cause a retrial of that charge? |
He can be convicted on one or more charges (for example on manslaughter) and the jury can be hung on other charges.
Each charge is considered separately. He would be sentenced on the guilty verdict(s). That's why they offer multiple charges to the jury, as I understand it, so that if they think he is guilty but not to the level of the highest charge, they have options.
Is that what you are asking? _________________ “There is always light if only we're brave enough to see it, if only we're brave enough to be it.” --Amanda Gorman |
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DaMuleRules Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52660 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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Dr. Laker wrote: | I doubt that the jury hangs on all counts.
Most likely is hung jury on Murder 2, guilty on Murder 3 & Manslaughter. |
Whomever would be a holdout on a case like this is likely going to be doing so out of an outright unwillingness to hold Chauvin accountable. But I suppose they could be talked into the lesser charge in order to get things over with. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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SweetP wrote: | jodeke wrote: | Dr. Laker wrote: | I doubt that the jury hangs on all counts.
Most likely is hung jury on Murder 2, guilty on Murder 3 & Manslaughter. |
Can you have hung jury and guilty verdicts in filings? Asking can Chauvin get a hung jury and a guilty verdict in this trial? If so can the hung jury cause a retrial of that charge? |
He can be convicted on one or more charges (for example on manslaughter) and the jury can be hung on other charges.
Each charge is considered separately. He would be sentenced on the guilty verdict(s). That's why they offer multiple charges to the jury, as I understand it, so that if they think he is guilty but not to the level of the highest charge, they have options.
Is that what you are asking? |
I think he was asking whether they could later retry him on the charges the jury was hung on, and the answer is yes. That would only be likely if they are hung on all charges though. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67744 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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SweetP wrote: | jodeke wrote: | Dr. Laker wrote: | I doubt that the jury hangs on all counts.
Most likely is hung jury on Murder 2, guilty on Murder 3 & Manslaughter. |
Can you have hung jury and guilty verdicts in filings? Asking can Chauvin get a hung jury and a guilty verdict in this trial? If so can the hung jury cause a retrial of that charge? |
He can be convicted on one or more charges (for example on manslaughter) and the jury can be hung on other charges.
Each charge is considered separately. He would be sentenced on the guilty verdict(s). That's why they offer multiple charges to the jury, as I understand it, so that if they think he is guilty but not to the level of the highest charge, they have options.
Is that what you are asking? |
Yes. That's what I thought. It's a reason I wanted any and all charges pertinent be filed. Find him guilty of multiple charges and give him the max on each he's found guilty of. Also have the sentences served consecutively. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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SweetP Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 6054 Location: My own little piece of reality
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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Omar Little wrote: | SweetP wrote: | jodeke wrote: | Dr. Laker wrote: | I doubt that the jury hangs on all counts.
Most likely is hung jury on Murder 2, guilty on Murder 3 & Manslaughter. |
Can you have hung jury and guilty verdicts in filings? Asking can Chauvin get a hung jury and a guilty verdict in this trial? If so can the hung jury cause a retrial of that charge? |
He can be convicted on one or more charges (for example on manslaughter) and the jury can be hung on other charges.
Each charge is considered separately. He would be sentenced on the guilty verdict(s). That's why they offer multiple charges to the jury, as I understand it, so that if they think he is guilty but not to the level of the highest charge, they have options.
Is that what you are asking? |
I think he was asking whether they could later retry him on the charges the jury was hung on, and the answer is yes. That would only be likely if they are hung on all charges though. |
Maybe, you have more experience with interpreting Jodeke-speak than I do _________________ “There is always light if only we're brave enough to see it, if only we're brave enough to be it.” --Amanda Gorman |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67744 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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SweetP wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | SweetP wrote: | jodeke wrote: | Dr. Laker wrote: | I doubt that the jury hangs on all counts.
Most likely is hung jury on Murder 2, guilty on Murder 3 & Manslaughter. |
Can you have hung jury and guilty verdicts in filings? Asking can Chauvin get a hung jury and a guilty verdict in this trial? If so can the hung jury cause a retrial of that charge? |
He can be convicted on one or more charges (for example on manslaughter) and the jury can be hung on other charges.
Each charge is considered separately. He would be sentenced on the guilty verdict(s). That's why they offer multiple charges to the jury, as I understand it, so that if they think he is guilty but not to the level of the highest charge, they have options.
Is that what you are asking? |
I think he was asking whether they could later retry him on the charges the jury was hung on, and the answer is yes. That would only be likely if they are hung on all charges though. |
Maybe, you have more experience with interpreting Jodeke-speak than I do |
Not really, you're both right in a sense.
I thought you could retry on a hung jury charge, though it's most likely not to happen. You can reach verdicts on some charges and hang on others.
I didn't know the jury had to hang on all charges in order to retry if only one charge is hung.
Damn! Am I that confusing? _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: | SweetP wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | SweetP wrote: | jodeke wrote: | Dr. Laker wrote: | I doubt that the jury hangs on all counts.
Most likely is hung jury on Murder 2, guilty on Murder 3 & Manslaughter. |
Can you have hung jury and guilty verdicts in filings? Asking can Chauvin get a hung jury and a guilty verdict in this trial? If so can the hung jury cause a retrial of that charge? |
He can be convicted on one or more charges (for example on manslaughter) and the jury can be hung on other charges.
Each charge is considered separately. He would be sentenced on the guilty verdict(s). That's why they offer multiple charges to the jury, as I understand it, so that if they think he is guilty but not to the level of the highest charge, they have options.
Is that what you are asking? |
I think he was asking whether they could later retry him on the charges the jury was hung on, and the answer is yes. That would only be likely if they are hung on all charges though. |
Maybe, you have more experience with interpreting Jodeke-speak than I do |
Not really, you're both right in a sense.
I thought you could retry on a hung jury charge, though it's most likely not to happen. You can reach verdicts on some charges and hang on others.
I didn't know the jury had to hang on all charges in order to retry if only one charge is hung.
Damn! Am I that confusing? |
They don’t have to hang on all. The prosecutor can choose to retry any charge where they don’t reach a verdict. So if they convict of manslaughter, for example, but can’t reach a verdict on murder 2, he can try again on murder 2. The reality is that if they get any conviction they rarely go back to the other charges. But they can. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67744 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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Omar Little wrote: | jodeke wrote: | SweetP wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | SweetP wrote: | jodeke wrote: | Dr. Laker wrote: | I doubt that the jury hangs on all counts.
Most likely is hung jury on Murder 2, guilty on Murder 3 & Manslaughter. |
Can you have hung jury and guilty verdicts in filings? Asking can Chauvin get a hung jury and a guilty verdict in this trial? If so can the hung jury cause a retrial of that charge? |
He can be convicted on one or more charges (for example on manslaughter) and the jury can be hung on other charges.
Each charge is considered separately. He would be sentenced on the guilty verdict(s). That's why they offer multiple charges to the jury, as I understand it, so that if they think he is guilty but not to the level of the highest charge, they have options.
Is that what you are asking? |
I think he was asking whether they could later retry him on the charges the jury was hung on, and the answer is yes. That would only be likely if they are hung on all charges though. |
Maybe, you have more experience with interpreting Jodeke-speak than I do |
Not really, you're both right in a sense.
I thought you could retry on a hung jury charge, though it's most likely not to happen. You can reach verdicts on some charges and hang on others.
I didn't know the jury had to hang on all charges in order to retry if only one charge is hung.
Damn! Am I that confusing? |
They don’t have to hang on all. The prosecutor can choose to retry any charge where they don’t reach a verdict. So if they convict of manslaughter, for example, but can’t reach a verdict on murder 2, he can try again on murder 2. The reality is that if they get any conviction they rarely go back to the other charges. But they can. |
That's what I thought. I ask questions I think I know the answers to for validation. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67744 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:42 am Post subject: |
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Omar Little wrote: | jodeke wrote: | SweetP wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | SweetP wrote: | jodeke wrote: | Dr. Laker wrote: | I doubt that the jury hangs on all counts.
Most likely is hung jury on Murder 2, guilty on Murder 3 & Manslaughter. |
Can you have hung jury and guilty verdicts in filings? Asking can Chauvin get a hung jury and a guilty verdict in this trial? If so can the hung jury cause a retrial of that charge? |
He can be convicted on one or more charges (for example on manslaughter) and the jury can be hung on other charges.
Each charge is considered separately. He would be sentenced on the guilty verdict(s). That's why they offer multiple charges to the jury, as I understand it, so that if they think he is guilty but not to the level of the highest charge, they have options.
Is that what you are asking? |
I think he was asking whether they could later retry him on the charges the jury was hung on, and the answer is yes. That would only be likely if they are hung on all charges though. |
Maybe, you have more experience with interpreting Jodeke-speak than I do |
Not really, you're both right in a sense.
I thought you could retry on a hung jury charge, though it's most likely not to happen. You can reach verdicts on some charges and hang on others.
I didn't know the jury had to hang on all charges in order to retry if only one charge is hung.
Damn! Am I that confusing? |
They don’t have to hang on all. The prosecutor can choose to retry any charge where they don’t reach a verdict. So if they convict of manslaughter, for example, but can’t reach a verdict on murder 2, he can try again on murder 2. The reality is that if they get any conviction they rarely go back to the other charges. But they can. |
That's what I thought. I ask questions I think I know the answers to for validation. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:01 am Post subject: |
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Out of curiosity, why did you twice respond word for word the same to the same post over 14 hours apart? _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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