Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:05 am Post subject:
^
For LAL:
1. Prkacin
2. Sengun
3. Bleijenburgh
4. Aaron Henry
5. Trade down
Trade down:
Kessler Edwards
Tre Mann
Benedict Mathurin
Gabriele Procida
Sandro Mamukelashvili
Ron Harper Jr
Trey Murphy III
I have too much faith in internationals slipping down. But who knows, maybe the NBA wakes up and understands to not evaluate them differently from NCAA guys. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:13 pm Post subject:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Mathurin! Mathurin! Mathurin!
Yeah he's a tough one for me because he literally sits on the perimeter, does very very little playmaking, and has barely flashed chops outside of spot up shooting.
If saw more of his abilities, he'd be easier to rank.
FWIW, he's another reason why I'd like LAL to trade down too. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Draft is over 3 months away but I have settled on Tre Mann for the Lakers pick.
I feel he is one of the more complete prospects in this draft given his athletic profile and potential on both ends of the court.
The one skill he has that cannot really be taught is his combo of (body control - tight handles - crafty movement) to create spacing from his defender and get to where he wants on the court. Similar to how Trae Young is successful.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:32 pm Post subject:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Draft is over 3 months away but I have settled on Tre Mann for the Lakers pick.
I feel he is one of the more complete prospects in this draft given his athletic profile and potential on both ends of the court.
The one skill he has that cannot really be taught is his combo of (body control - tight handles - crafty movement) to create spacing from his defender and get to where he wants on the court. Similar to how Trae Young is successful.
Anyone see it different?
If that's the case, trade down and get him. I haven't seen anything really particularly special about his game, except that he's a big PG who does the simple things well. Nothing in terms of Trae level passing/range, one handed playmaking off the dribble, etc.
His best skill that you're highlighting is the short range quickness movements, combination of footwork and ball-handling. Good flash yes.
Still Vrenz Bleijenburgh for me. I keep rewatching whatever I can and every time I watch, I think it's a lottery guy not getting the hype, from lack of exposure and that he's arguably 180-200lbs at 6'10 _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Draft is over 3 months away but I have settled on Tre Mann for the Lakers pick.
I feel he is one of the more complete prospects in this draft given his athletic profile and potential on both ends of the court.
The one skill he has that cannot really be taught is his combo of (body control - tight handles - crafty movement) to create spacing from his defender and get to where he wants on the court. Similar to how Trae Young is successful.
Anyone see it different?
If that's the case, trade down and get him. I haven't seen anything really particularly special about his game, except that he's a big PG who does the simple things well. Nothing in terms of Trae level passing/range, one handed playmaking off the dribble, etc.
His best skill that you're highlighting is the short range quickness movements, combination of footwork and ball-handling. Good flash yes.
Still Vrenz Bleijenburgh for me. I keep rewatching whatever I can and every time I watch, I think it's a lottery guy not getting the hype, from lack of exposure and that he's arguably 180-200lbs at 6'10
I don't expect Trae Young level shooting and especially passing but for the draft pick position I feel he brings good value for what he does well. He won't be a liability as a scorer/shooter and offers upside defensively. Some added strength and muscle should do him well like it should Vrenz.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:12 pm Post subject:
When I think of Trae Young, I specifically think of his quickness/decel to creation space/elite handle/perimeter range/one-handed playmaking/elite vision as his path to success. I'm 60/40 on the short range creation that Mann shows, because he doesn't have the rest of the above to complement that primary skill and really create space/range with the threat of anything else he could do on the floor like Trae does.
Vrenz, isn't about space creation. It is absolutely 6'10" guy that plays physical despite his weight, gets a ton of PnR reps, makes good decisions, has the ball-handling by size, and looks comfortable in all shooting situations; catch and shoot, off motion, off the dribble. That's all stuff I would look at out of lottery prospects.
If anything I wish that Tre Mann, who is relatively big for a PG, basically DeMar DeRozan size, would draw a ton more fouls. DD took a long awhile to get to 220lbs, but entered the league at that weight, basically, and had outlier skill growth.
The mid 1st to early 2nd is a ton of depth of the draft without a ton of separation in terms of talent. May as well look for a player that'll likely exceed the expectation of the draft position. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
When I think of Trae Young, I specifically think of his quickness/decel to creation space/elite handle/perimeter range/one-handed playmaking/elite vision as his path to success. I'm 60/40 on the short range creation that Mann shows, because he doesn't have the rest of the above to complement that primary skill and really create space/range with the threat of anything else he could do on the floor like Trae does.
The mid 1st to early 2nd is a ton of depth of the draft without a ton of separation in terms of talent. May as well look for a player that'll likely exceed the expectation of the draft position.
I am more 80/20 on Tre's short range creation and ability to separate from defenders and score in a variety of ways. One favorable factor is his height which should afford him some advantages to compensate for lack of quickness you noted in comparison to Trae.
I realize he may never approach Trae's playmaking/elite vision but he should develop into a serviceable player in this respect. In totality I view his potential as a more fluid moving Malcolm Brogdan and not DD. His physical stature, shooting and playmaking skills seems to align with Malcolm's game.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:08 pm Post subject:
The height by position definitely matters, and fortunately, it's a big advantage for him at PG, even though he's near wing size. Anything at 2/3, and those advantages are negated.
Brogdan makes a ton more sense, but in reference to DD, I was just pointing out size/frame stuff.
Brogdan is the guy with the 6'11" wingspan, which I don't think Mann has even at his height. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Prkacin goes for 38. Lit up his defender. This is lottery stuff from the guy we wished Slava would have turned into.
Definitely more skilled than Slava although if Slava had the opportunity to experience the development process of today I feel he would have been a very good player.
I am fairly high on Jeremiah Robinson Earl. Has shown a developing offensive game, smart hustle player whose defense should be a +. Don't see a star but the perfect complementary team player like Kuzma has started to develop into.
Not sure which of these two I would prefer at this time.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:38 pm Post subject:
^Slava gave up on himself and never had that ability to read plays. But the foundation was there with 21' range which he never expanded to the 3pt line, and the ability to straight line drive.
I'm not confident in JRE, but there is a recent scouting vid that came out. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Kai Sotto. Is Moses Brown a blue print for the path Kai takes to the NBA?
Seeing Moses in the Gleague his first year I thought he was too weak, skinny and marginally skilled. I felt the same in his 1 year at UCLA. I thought it would take years for his body to be NBA ready and the odds were slim he would ever make the league.
Then I watched him this year in the Gleague and his body had transformed and he was putting up some huge numbers. I still wasn't sure how this would translate against NBA athletes.
He now appears to have a bright future in the league and OKC may have their center for the future.
Kai similarly reminds me of UCLA/1st year Moses except with considerably more bball skills. He may be worth taking a flyer on to see if he is another Moses type development project.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:32 am Post subject:
Likely not.
Moses Brown always had higher end NBA size with an elite motor, just was poorly utilized at UCLA and OKC loves development types with high physical upside.
Kai Sotto basically needs to be a version of Sandro Mamukelashvili and get there fast. He opted to not go to the G-League, which was on him, because it pretty much boosted the stock of all the other NBA potentials, even outside of Kuminga and Green.
They are two opposite level athletes. Moses Brown was putting up big numbers at UCLA with rebounding and blocks too.
Not every team wants a project. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
^I know you had reservations about Kai when he left the Gleague. I also wondered about that. But I will give him some leeway as he is very young and coming over from a foreign country can be hard mentally on them.
Not many Moses Brown type prospects pop up in a year let alone a big. At UCLA I thought his numbers were just a result of his size and that it would not translate. In essence he did not pass the eye test. I will be more cognizant of these physically underdeveloped bigs in the future.
As for Kai vs. Sandro the one aspect of Kai's game that I believe can be of impact in the NBA is his height and length. 7'3" vs 6'11" is a big difference for me as is his reported 7'5" wingspan. I see how much this benefits a player like Porzingis.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:52 pm Post subject:
^Well that's part of what does it for me. Being 7'3" vastly increases the chances of being injury prone.
Then there's the talent/skill level. The league is so competitive now, players can't just rely on just on age and have a mountain to climb in terms of skill to close the gap with time to spare. The gap of 19/20 year old kids already being able to contribute from the jump is pretty wide.
A lot of guys are from different countries too, and not just Kai because he's Filipino.
I don't give leeway, because the league won't. He had an opportunity to join the G-League and didn't. That's on him. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Well the Kai Sotto discussion was all for naught this year as he is ineligible for the 2021 draft. Supposedly signed with the NBL Adelaide 36ers so will be interesting to see how he performs there.
Yeah he's a tough one for me because he literally sits on the perimeter, does very very little playmaking, and has barely flashed chops outside of spot up shooting.
If saw more of his abilities, he'd be easier to rank.
FWIW, he's another reason why I'd like LAL to trade down too.
Looks like he'll be returning to school and the Lakers won't have a shot at him next year. _________________ Under New Management
If he was doing this stuff at age 18 like Prkacin, I would be right behind you on the Vrenz to the lotto train. There's a lot to like, regardless, and he'd be a great pick for the Lakers in the 20-25 range.
My concerns:
- The first step burst isn't great and he doesn't have much in the way of dribble counter moves when his drives get cut off. I think NBA wings will really eat him up unless his shooting progresses and they have to play him tight.
- I haven't seen footage of him finishing through contact yet or signs of an in-between/floater game. I may have just watched the wrong highlights, though.
- Given all that I think he'll best be able to leverage his ball skills as a secondary playmaker at PF. Can he eventually hold up physically on the glass/on defense against starting NBA 4s?
My likes:
- Besides the obvious strengths as a fast break initiator, his shot form, passing touch with either hand, etc., I like the kid's quick feet - Prkacin has PF feet for contrast. And Vrenz has got real swag/cockiness, which is great to see from a young prospect. _________________ Under New Management
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:22 pm Post subject:
I'm not as concern with burst as I used to be. He at least likes to initiate contact when attacking the rim, and although he has narrow shoulders and a thinner frame, I think he'll at least seek that contact.
I figure the ball handling dexterity will just come naturally considering how comfortable he is right now.
He'd be a steal at the Lakers pick. Just thinking LAL is looking elsewhere though. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
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