Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144480 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:26 pm Post subject:
gng930 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Any GM that starts a team with Lebron/AD or even Lebron alone has been dealt pocket Aces. You can still play the hand wrong and just win because you have such an advance given the hand you were dealt.
In the case of Rob, he has played the hand wrong more than he has played it right.
Which of his moves were bad? You can't criticize moves he didn't make unless you know the conditions under which he was operating (e.g. blaming him for not closing the Kawhi deal when it's now apparent that Kawhi did not want to want to come here).
Can we agree that the whole Howard-Harrell-Gasol-Drummond saga was not well played? You can say that it didn't make any difference because of injuries, or you can brush it off some other way. However, can we find common ground and just agree that this was not well done?
I don't lump Gasol into that. I think replacing McGee with Gasol but keeping Dwight on the bench would have been the ideal scenario. Harrell was a total flop and gigantic waste of the best FA asset (NT-MLE) we will have in a very long time. #ClipperTrashNeverAgain. At least Drummond only cost us the minimum.
You didn’t see the Clippers trying to get Harrell to stay. They knew he isn’t a fit on a team hoping to win a title. I am sure that the fact that he was a Clipper played into Rob and Jeanie’s desire to sign him. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144480 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:30 pm Post subject:
DLaker wrote:
dino wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Any GM that starts a team with Lebron/AD or even Lebron alone has been dealt pocket Aces. You can still play the hand wrong and just win because you have such an advance given the hand you were dealt.
In the case of Rob, he has played the hand wrong more than he has played it right.
Which of his moves were bad? You can't criticize moves he didn't make unless you know the conditions under which he was operating (e.g. blaming him for not closing the Kawhi deal when it's now apparent that Kawhi did not want to want to come here).
I can add more to this list around just general asset retention, however, I'll stick with the big ones.
Stephenson
Beasley
Drafting Ball
Waiving Deng a year before necessary for no reason.
Letting Randle walk for nothing.
Letting Brook leave for $3m a year.
Trading Zubac
Trez > Dwight (and the decision to hardcap the team was equally as bad)
Schroder (what would have happened if he signed the extension?)
Drummond
Gasol (it cost us 2 second picks - 1 to create room to sign him, 1 to dump his salary).
AC
I think we are going to see again this year the team fall way short because of roster decisions.
well, he was also part of:
signing kcp
signing coach vogel and his staff
trading for kuz
drafting hart
signing lebron
trading for davis
signing javale
giving dwight a chance
drafting tht
scrambling to get green, bradley, rondo, dudz
signing morris
and 1 title...
I dunno, I guess the title makes up for a lot...?
Thanks Dino, a lot here want everything perfect and dont see the positive only see the negative.
let me add some more under his time here
Got out of MOZ/DENG contract
Under Kupchak season 13-17 last 4 season 25th, 27th, 29th, 28th
Got hired March 2017 and 3 superstars in 4 year LBJ/AD/RW
Keep finding gems (Kuz, Hart, AC, THT, Bryant, Svi, Reaves)
Got Nunn, Monk
Change the Laker culture back a place u want to be again.
Change outlook from lottery to championship contender.
Has not sign a somebody to a stupid contract.
As for the last point, they really tried. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
So let me get this correct….anything wrong came at the hands of Magic (er, Tragic) while he was still here. Anything bad afterwards wasn’t really all that bad or classified as a 50-50 type decision based off forum banter. And anything good was done by Rob.
That’s a pretty lazy narrative with broad strokes, no?
Speaking of broads telling stories, Woj had a report where Magic didn’t put in the work and was an “absentee exec”, so if that’s true how did he construct all the necessary transactions that dealt with cap minutiae to bring in Bron and possibly Kawhi as FAs with MozDeng on the books. He must have parked in Bron’s driveway all day and took all his work calls from there.
I’d like to also point out Woj was a teen brought up in Connecticut which is just a couple hours outside of Boston, at a time when Lakers vs Celtics was kind of a big deal that involved our tragic exec.
I just don’t understand why it’s so hard to understand that Magic wasn’t a great choice as an exec, but neither was Rob. They both had their up & downs and overall should get credit for bringing us out of the MozDeng era.
But they had their warts both as a unit and individually. They also didn’t have the resume to handle this job by themselves (along with counsel from Rambis). Which is why, I feel we wound be better off with a more robust FO with guys that are we agree to learn (like Rob) from those that have been in the game for a minute (like Riles or Jerry West).
If Magic did anything by himself, it was the Lou trade for the 28th overall pick. That decision was made when Rob was not hired yet. We were clearly angling to tank for a higher pick, but Lou kept us afloat so he had to go. It ended up with Zo at #2 (via the tank job) and Kuz or Hart (since we ended up swapping #28 again for #30 & #42 (Hart/TB).
But the biggest assist Magic gave us as an exec is vacating a PBO position he clearly was not prepared to handle. However, instead of finding a more capable and credentialed individual, we decided not to fill that position (see Riles & West here too).
If we had more hands on deck (ie a more robust FO), you wouldn’t get Dwight miscommunications…you wouldn’t get Marc miscommunications….you wouldn’t get AC miscommunications…you wouldn’t get hurt feelings by promising starting roles…you wouldn’t get misses with your top FA target…you wouldn’t get misses with your top coaching targets.
Not sure how you drew all of this out of my post where quite a bit of what you stated has nothing to do with the topic. Who cares where Woj grew up or if Magic or Rob had so called warts. Btw Rob's warts include being a lawyer and highly successful sports agent and representing one Kobe Bryant. Was Kobe a poor judge of character as he was best friends with Rob?
Never said the bolded above. I just addressed the points that the poster brought up and gave my opinion. In hindsight sure they weren't the best decisions but basketball is a very inexact science and all GM's make what they believe to be the best decision given what they know at that moment. I brought up the forum consensus or how I viewed it to give a perspective of those acquisitions, nothing more nothing less. Btw I did agree about Drummond so I guess not everything huh.
"And anything good was done by Rob". Where did you get that from in my post? Tough to have a convo if you are gong to make baseless claims like this.
Lazy narrative? Well I ask is it lazy to pin all the problems on Rob or Lebron? Isn't that the narrative I addressed but I wouldn't call that poster lazy as that is pretty insulting. LMLA and I both put thought into our comments and if you want to label mine as Lazy then so be it.
It was clear Magic made decisions whether you want to believe so or not.
He took credit for drafting Mo Wagner. He showed his displeasure with Coach Walton and eventually fired him. He showed his disdain for DLO and he was soon out. You can attribute that with needing to move Moz but we all knew DLO was gone after his good friend B. Scott did not approve of him. Wasn't Magic the one taking the lead in the initial failed AD trade talks even wanting to do it personally with only him and Demps. He admitted his mistake in letting Lopez leave and that he could not keep Randle since he waned a 2 year contract. Maybe not as absence as you suggest.
Magic made it clear he made the final decision and that he was the boss. How much was a collaborative effort is surely debatable and one we will never know.
Who doesn't understand Magic wasn't a good choice? You, surely not me. I disliked the hire from the beginning. Not sure why you brought this up.
Rob, well that is a personal opinion and we can differ on that. I guess I am skewed in Rob's favor since the Lakers did actually win a banner under his watch if we are going to give him all the credit and discredit for the Lakers success or failure.
West, I assume you mean Jerry. The one who hamstrung (ref Shawshank) his team by trading their future away for PG. How has that turned out? Riley who rode Lebron to 2 titles and 1 with Wade. What has he done lately besides get to the NBA finals and lose to the Lakers and Rob.
Rob's qualifications for the job? What did Bob Myers do prior to becoming a GM of GSW? What did Leon Rose do before becoming President of the Knicks. That's right they were super AGENTS same as Rob.
Who knows if there would not be miscommunications even with more staff. You know the saying sometimes too much chef's in the kitchen..... Miscommunication with AC or just $'s? Impulsive reaction by DH? What Marc miscommunication? He reported to camp out of shape and fell out of favor with Vogel.
Any GM that starts a team with Lebron/AD or even Lebron alone has been dealt pocket Aces. You can still play the hand wrong and just win because you have such an advance given the hand you were dealt.
In the case of Rob, he has played the hand wrong more than he has played it right.
Which of his moves were bad? You can't criticize moves he didn't make unless you know the conditions under which he was operating (e.g. blaming him for not closing the Kawhi deal when it's now apparent that Kawhi did not want to want to come here).
Can we agree that the whole Howard-Harrell-Gasol-Drummond saga was not well played? You can say that it didn't make any difference because of injuries, or you can brush it off some other way. However, can we find common ground and just agree that this was not well done?
I don't lump Gasol into that. I think replacing McGee with Gasol but keeping Dwight on the bench would have been the ideal scenario. Harrell was a total flop and gigantic waste of the best FA asset (NT-MLE) we will have in a very long time. #ClipperTrashNeverAgain. At least Drummond only cost us the minimum.
You didn’t see the Clippers trying to get Harrell to stay. They knew he isn’t a fit on a team hoping to win a title. I am sure that the fact that he was a Clipper played into Rob and Jeanie’s desire to sign him.
I thought they planned to bring him back.
However there was friction between PG and Harrell which may have softened their pursuit of him.
I'd add that revisionist history is something pretty common here. People will rant about bringing in Kwame Brown, Steve Nash, Luol Deng, Montrez Harrell, Dennis Schroder after the fact. The reality though is that teams know the risks and the rewards of each thing. GMs are taking calculated risks.
The calculated risk with Kwame Brown for example was that Phil (who pushed for the move) had success with dealing with other problem players and could get the most out of him. He was four years removed from being the #1 pick in the draft, and two years removed from a promising finish to the season. The next year he was injured a lot and disappointing. They didn't feel like Butler was in their future or a good fit with Kobe and Odom so they were looking to move him and Kwame was the risk they took. It failed miserably but I am assuming the logic at the time was high risk, high reward and they needed to swing for the fences. Kwame was by far the riskiest move Kupchak ever took imo. It was pushed by Phil who they had just brought back on, and it failed miserably. But I'm sure when they made it they realized that there was a reasonable chance that would happen, but the upside was that if he realized his potential they could have potentially gotten a #1 pick for an expiring contract who they weren't willing to pay. Given that Caron turned into an all-star and Kwame never improved it turned out to be a terrible move.
With Nash, the league had just rescinded the Chris Paul trade the season before and plummeted the team into disarray. They had the pieces to make a Howard trade but they needed more talent. Nash 37 but he was still an All-Star, and had been very healthy. Look at his injury history leading up to that he had back issues that would pop up from time to time but rarely missed games. Aside from the strike shortened season he had played 75, 81, 74, 81, 76, 79, 75, 78, 82, and 82 games in the recent seasons. They certainly knew that at his age he was a health risk, but were able to bring in an All-star to try to eek another title or two out of the Kobe era. They needed to ensure they had the talent to compete for titles because Dwight would be a free agent the next summer and they needed to entice him to stay. Nobody could know that Lillard would break his leg to start the season and he'd never be the same player again, Kobe would blow his achilles and Dwight would leave in free agency that year and end the Lakers run. That's the breaks. But it doesn't change that Nash was a risk worth taking. What exactly was the alternative?
Deng and Mozgov weren't signings that excited people by any stretch but you had that weird dynamic heading into the offseason where Jeanie appeared to be sabotaging the team to oust her brother. Leaking bad press before free agency. Every chance she got she was reminding the media that Jim's deadline was approaching to turn it around. You feared that they would overpay to try to put together a winning team because if they didn't they were gone. And that is what played out. That having been said in Deng's case he was overpaid but he was only 30 and he was coming off a season where he had a strong second half and a decent playoffs in 14 playoff games. Not a good signing by any stretch, but with the deadline and free agents snubbing them you just knew something like that was going to happen. A year previously that cap space would have been punted.
Now for the more recent guys. Danny Green needed a change of scenery. Lakers fans were giving him death threats. They didn't appreciate the things he did. And they needed a point guard. Bradley opted out and was going to leave. Rondo was going to leave for more money. Schroder wasn't an ideal fit but he was coming off a season where he averaged 19/4 and shot 38.5% from three. Now I'm sure if they expected him to really hard ball them on getting a big contract they would have made other moves, but I think the assumption was that they'd offer him a fair deal and he'd take it. That didn't work out.
Trez meanwhile was the sixth man of the year. I think the Lakers were surprised by Howard's sudden shift to take less money and sign in Philly. They had an opportunity to get what was viewed at the time as a value deal on a guy who averaged 19/7 the year before without giving up any assets. That looked a lot worse because shortly after signing him Howard bailed. Then to close the season they brought in Drummond, who was disappointing and ate most of Trez's minutes.
In both of those recent cases, the Lakers were well aware of both players deficiencies before they brought them in. It's not like they were shocked that Trez played no defense, or that Schroder was turnover prone and a marginal three point shooter. But they also had holes to fill and saw them as ways to improve the roster with the assets they had.
Any player you sign is going to have risks and weaknesses. If the strengths outweigh those then they are worth taking a fly on. It won't always work out, just as going all in preflop with Aces doesn't always work out in Texas Holdem Em. You should still do it, you will win the majority of pots, and double your stack. But 30% of the time you may be unlucky and another player bucks the odds and ends your tournament. That doesn't mean it was the wrong play to make. And on the flip side the guy calling you with short odds to win may also be making the proper play depending on the size of their stack and what is already in the pot. It's easy for fans to cherry pick failures after the fact and say how terrible those things were but the reality is that sometimes you just get unlucky and things don't work out.
So let me get this correct….anything wrong came at the hands of Magic (er, Tragic) while he was still here. Anything bad afterwards wasn’t really all that bad or classified as a 50-50 type decision based off forum banter. And anything good was done by Rob.
That’s a pretty lazy narrative with broad strokes, no?
This is why I asked the question that I did. If we can't even agree that the Howard-Harrell-Gasol-Drummond saga was not handled well, then we're just playing message board games. The satirical British story in my signature is something I try to avoid.
The opinions of people on a message board about a particular move have little relevance because (a) we expect front office personnel to have conducted a much more thorough and reasoned analysis than a bunch of message board posters, and (b) at least on LG, a lot of posters will support and defend any move the team makes. Sure, there were people who supported a lot of the moves that turned out poorly. There were people who liked the Deng signing, too.
I don't get the point. My opinion vs. your opinion. I guess that is message board games if you want to label it that.
So let me get this correct….anything wrong came at the hands of Magic (er, Tragic) while he was still here. Anything bad afterwards wasn’t really all that bad or classified as a 50-50 type decision based off forum banter. And anything good was done by Rob.
That’s a pretty lazy narrative with broad strokes, no?
This is why I asked the question that I did. If we can't even agree that the Howard-Harrell-Gasol-Drummond saga was not handled well, then we're just playing message board games. The satirical British story in my signature is something I try to avoid.
The opinions of people on a message board about a particular move have little relevance because (a) we expect front office personnel to have conducted a much more thorough and reasoned analysis than a bunch of message board posters, and (b) at least on LG, a lot of posters will support and defend any move the team makes. Sure, there were people who supported a lot of the moves that turned out poorly. There were people who liked the Deng signing, too.
I don't get the point. My opinion vs. your opinion. I guess that is message board games if you want to label it that.
The point is that you've established that you are going to deny that anything the current front office has done was a mistake. That's a mild exaggeration, but if you can't agree that the Howard-Harrell-Gasol-Drummond saga was not well played, then what's the point of the discussion? I picked that particular point because I don't think any fair-minded observer could disagree. We wound up pissing off all four of them and then going back to where we started (Howard). In the process, we hard-capped ourselves and coughed up a second round draft pick and cash just to get Gasol off the books.
You're dug in. As the saying goes, you've picked your hill to die on. That's your privilege, but I've made an effort to stay out of those sorts of message board arguments. To borrow a line from the British satire piece in my signature: “I hope it can teach others that arguing on the internet is completely worthwhile, as long as you never give up. Never.” _________________ Internet Argument Resolved
So let me get this correct….anything wrong came at the hands of Magic (er, Tragic) while he was still here. Anything bad afterwards wasn’t really all that bad or classified as a 50-50 type decision based off forum banter. And anything good was done by Rob.
That’s a pretty lazy narrative with broad strokes, no?
This is why I asked the question that I did. If we can't even agree that the Howard-Harrell-Gasol-Drummond saga was not handled well, then we're just playing message board games. The satirical British story in my signature is something I try to avoid.
The opinions of people on a message board about a particular move have little relevance because (a) we expect front office personnel to have conducted a much more thorough and reasoned analysis than a bunch of message board posters, and (b) at least on LG, a lot of posters will support and defend any move the team makes. Sure, there were people who supported a lot of the moves that turned out poorly. There were people who liked the Deng signing, too.
I don't get the point. My opinion vs. your opinion. I guess that is message board games if you want to label it that.
The point is that you've established that you are going to deny that anything the current front office has done was a mistake. That's a mild exaggeration, but if you can't agree that the Howard-Harrell-Gasol-Drummond saga was not well played, then what's the point of the discussion? I picked that particular point because I don't think any fair-minded observer could disagree. We wound up pissing off all four of them and then going back to where we started (Howard). In the process, we hard-capped ourselves and coughed up a second round draft pick and cash just to get Gasol off the books.
You're dug in. As the saying goes, you've picked your hill to die on. That's your privilege, but I've made an effort to stay out of those sorts of message board arguments. To borrow a line from the British satire piece in my signature: “I hope it can teach others that arguing on the internet is completely worthwhile, as long as you never give up. Never.”
I guess you haven't read some of my posts where I stated I don't agree with every move the FO has made. Here's one the DENNIS SCHRODER acquisition was a biggggggggggggggg mistake. Worse than DH-Gasol-Harrell-Drummond.
Why should I agree with you or anyone if I don't believe what they say? What's the point of a discussion if you EXPECT everyone to agree with you just because you firmly believe you are right? Btw maybe you missed I did agree with you on Drummond.
I'm dug in? My hill to die on? Message board argument? You should look in the mirror and have that same talk with yourself but obviously it will fall on deaf ears.
Any GM that starts a team with Lebron/AD or even Lebron alone has been dealt pocket Aces. You can still play the hand wrong and just win because you have such an advance given the hand you were dealt.
In the case of Rob, he has played the hand wrong more than he has played it right.
Which of his moves were bad? You can't criticize moves he didn't make unless you know the conditions under which he was operating (e.g. blaming him for not closing the Kawhi deal when it's now apparent that Kawhi did not want to want to come here).
I can add more to this list around just general asset retention, however, I'll stick with the big ones.
Stephenson
Beasley
Drafting Ball
Waiving Deng a year before necessary for no reason.
Letting Randle walk for nothing.
Letting Brook leave for $3m a year.
Trading Zubac
Trez > Dwight (and the decision to hardcap the team was equally as bad)
Schroder (what would have happened if he signed the extension?)
Drummond
Gasol (it cost us 2 second picks - 1 to create room to sign him, 1 to dump his salary).
AC
I think we are going to see again this year the team fall way short because of roster decisions.
well, he was also part of:
signing kcp
signing coach vogel and his staff
trading for kuz
drafting hart
signing lebron
trading for davis
signing javale
giving dwight a chance
drafting tht
scrambling to get green, bradley, rondo, dudz
signing morris
and 1 title...
I dunno, I guess the title makes up for a lot...?
Thanks Dino, a lot here want everything perfect and dont see the positive only see the negative.
let me add some more under his time here
Got out of MOZ/DENG contract
Under Kupchak season 13-17 last 4 season 25th, 27th, 29th, 28th
Got hired March 2017 and 3 superstars in 4 year LBJ/AD/RW
Keep finding gems (Kuz, Hart, AC, THT, Bryant, Svi, Reaves)
Got Nunn, Monk
Change the Laker culture back a place u want to be again.
Change outlook from lottery to championship contender.
Has not sign a somebody to a stupid contract.
As for the last point, they really tried.
Yea I can't dispute that. Head scratcher for sure.
Dubs are waiving Avery. That's a bit of a shocker.
They have no room for him and have their main rotation set... They prefer the youth as the end of the bench guy. Plus they are loaded this year. Their top 2 picks probably won't get much play this season. They still have Klay and Wiseman returning.
I see Tyrell Terry trending on Twitter. Was he really good in college? Should the Lakers sign him with the 2-Way contract?
His primary NBA skill is as a shooter with decent handles. Average to below average in all other NBA measurables - physically, athletically and skills. Been injury prone since his rookie year. Maybe he eventually evolves into a Seth Curry type player. No to 2-way..
Anyone 6’5” or shorter the Lakers should go after them, why not? We’re
stacked with shorties need tall & long wings (those 3&D guys we avoid) but who cares? _________________ Lakers need to build a freaking team !
Dubs are waiving Avery. That's a bit of a shocker.
Come on back home and get the ring you should've gotten in 2020, Avery...
Avery is a officially 2020 Champ. They did a video tribute to him when Dubs came to town a couple days ago and announced him as 2020 NBA Champion.
There's something about Avery. I get that he had family concerns in the bubble, but he bounced last year when they wanted him to run it back. Went to Miami and was traded to Houston after a couple of months.
Dude is hella talented - but 8 teams in 5 seasons plus a preseason?
Something is going on with him. He has too much game to not stick anywhere. _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns".
Saw someone posted the last 2-way may not be filled anytime soon. I like this approach. See who stands out in the G league that fits the Lakers needs later in the season. Maybe a center if either DH or DJ are injured or a wing if Ariza doesn't make it back. Someone always seems to pop up in the G league and hopefully the Lakers would be able to take advantage if necessary.
Any GM that starts a team with Lebron/AD or even Lebron alone has been dealt pocket Aces. You can still play the hand wrong and just win because you have such an advance given the hand you were dealt.
In the case of Rob, he has played the hand wrong more than he has played it right.
Which of his moves were bad? You can't criticize moves he didn't make unless you know the conditions under which he was operating (e.g. blaming him for not closing the Kawhi deal when it's now apparent that Kawhi did not want to want to come here).
I can add more to this list around just general asset retention, however, I'll stick with the big ones.
Stephenson
Beasley
Drafting Ball
Waiving Deng a year before necessary for no reason.
Letting Randle walk for nothing.
Letting Brook leave for $3m a year.
Trading Zubac
Trez > Dwight (and the decision to hardcap the team was equally as bad)
Schroder (what would have happened if he signed the extension?)
Drummond
Gasol (it cost us 2 second picks - 1 to create room to sign him, 1 to dump his salary).
AC
I think we are going to see again this year the team fall way short because of roster decisions.
well, he was also part of:
signing kcp
signing coach vogel and his staff
trading for kuz
drafting hart
signing lebron
trading for davis
signing javale
giving dwight a chance
drafting tht
scrambling to get green, bradley, rondo, dudz
signing morris
and 1 title...
I dunno, I guess the title makes up for a lot...?
Thanks Dino, a lot here want everything perfect and dont see the positive only see the negative.
let me add some more under his time here
Got out of MOZ/DENG contract
Under Kupchak season 13-17 last 4 season 25th, 27th, 29th, 28th
Got hired March 2017 and 3 superstars in 4 year LBJ/AD/RW
Keep finding gems (Kuz, Hart, AC, THT, Bryant, Svi, Reaves)
Got Nunn, Monk
Change the Laker culture back a place u want to be again.
Change outlook from lottery to championship contender.
Has not sign a somebody to a stupid contract.
As for the last point, they really tried.
They tried but only ur dumb friends Mitch:/Jim succeeded at it
Saw someone posted the last 2-way may not be filled anytime soon. I like this approach. See who stands out in the G league that fits the Lakers needs later in the season. Maybe a center if either DH or DJ are injured or a wing if Ariza doesn't make it back. Someone always seems to pop up in the G league and hopefully the Lakers would be able to take advantage if necessary.
Lakers should use that 2-way contract on a wing who won Defensive Player of the Year in college. Lakers need a wing defender.
So let me get this correct….anything wrong came at the hands of Magic (er, Tragic) while he was still here. Anything bad afterwards wasn’t really all that bad or classified as a 50-50 type decision based off forum banter. And anything good was done by Rob.
That’s a pretty lazy narrative with broad strokes, no?
Speaking of broads telling stories, Woj had a report where Magic didn’t put in the work and was an “absentee exec”, so if that’s true how did he construct all the necessary transactions that dealt with cap minutiae to bring in Bron and possibly Kawhi as FAs with MozDeng on the books. He must have parked in Bron’s driveway all day and took all his work calls from there.
I’d like to also point out Woj was a teen brought up in Connecticut which is just a couple hours outside of Boston, at a time when Lakers vs Celtics was kind of a big deal that involved our tragic exec.
I just don’t understand why it’s so hard to understand that Magic wasn’t a great choice as an exec, but neither was Rob. They both had their up & downs and overall should get credit for bringing us out of the MozDeng era.
But they had their warts both as a unit and individually. They also didn’t have the resume to handle this job by themselves (along with counsel from Rambis). Which is why, I feel we wound be better off with a more robust FO with guys that are we agree to learn (like Rob) from those that have been in the game for a minute (like Riles or Jerry West).
If Magic did anything by himself, it was the Lou trade for the 28th overall pick. That decision was made when Rob was not hired yet. We were clearly angling to tank for a higher pick, but Lou kept us afloat so he had to go. It ended up with Zo at #2 (via the tank job) and Kuz or Hart (since we ended up swapping #28 again for #30 & #42 (Hart/TB).
But the biggest assist Magic gave us as an exec is vacating a PBO position he clearly was not prepared to handle. However, instead of finding a more capable and credentialed individual, we decided not to fill that position (see Riles & West here too).
If we had more hands on deck (ie a more robust FO), you wouldn’t get Dwight miscommunications…you wouldn’t get Marc miscommunications….you wouldn’t get AC miscommunications…you wouldn’t get hurt feelings by promising starting roles…you wouldn’t get misses with your top FA target…you wouldn’t get misses with your top coaching targets.
Not sure how you drew all of this out of my post where quite a bit of what you stated has nothing to do with the topic. Who cares where Woj grew up or if Magic or Rob had so called warts. Btw Rob's warts include being a lawyer and highly successful sports agent and representing one Kobe Bryant. Was Kobe a poor judge of character as he was best friends with Rob?
Never said the bolded above. I just addressed the points that the poster brought up and gave my opinion. In hindsight sure they weren't the best decisions but basketball is a very inexact science and all GM's make what they believe to be the best decision given what they know at that moment. I brought up the forum consensus or how I viewed it to give a perspective of those acquisitions, nothing more nothing less. Btw I did agree about Drummond so I guess not everything huh.
"And anything good was done by Rob". Where did you get that from in my post? Tough to have a convo if you are gong to make baseless claims like this.
Lazy narrative? Well I ask is it lazy to pin all the problems on Rob or Lebron? Isn't that the narrative I addressed but I wouldn't call that poster lazy as that is pretty insulting. LMLA and I both put thought into our comments and if you want to label mine as Lazy then so be it.
It was clear Magic made decisions whether you want to believe so or not.
He took credit for drafting Mo Wagner. He showed his displeasure with Coach Walton and eventually fired him. He showed his disdain for DLO and he was soon out. You can attribute that with needing to move Moz but we all knew DLO was gone after his good friend B. Scott did not approve of him. Wasn't Magic the one taking the lead in the initial failed AD trade talks even wanting to do it personally with only him and Demps. He admitted his mistake in letting Lopez leave and that he could not keep Randle since he waned a 2 year contract. Maybe not as absence as you suggest.
Magic made it clear he made the final decision and that he was the boss. How much was a collaborative effort is surely debatable and one we will never know.
Who doesn't understand Magic wasn't a good choice? You, surely not me. I disliked the hire from the beginning. Not sure why you brought this up.
Rob, well that is a personal opinion and we can differ on that. I guess I am skewed in Rob's favor since the Lakers did actually win a banner under his watch if we are going to give him all the credit and discredit for the Lakers success or failure.
West, I assume you mean Jerry. The one who hamstrung (ref Shawshank) his team by trading their future away for PG. How has that turned out? Riley who rode Lebron to 2 titles and 1 with Wade. What has he done lately besides get to the NBA finals and lose to the Lakers and Rob.
Rob's qualifications for the job? What did Bob Myers do prior to becoming a GM of GSW? What did Leon Rose do before becoming President of the Knicks. That's right they were super AGENTS same as Rob.
Who knows if there would not be miscommunications even with more staff. You know the saying sometimes too much chef's in the kitchen..... Miscommunication with AC or just $'s? Impulsive reaction by DH? What Marc miscommunication? He reported to camp out of shape and fell out of favor with Vogel.
Don't want to belabor this convo so I am out.
My apologies for clumping you into the lazy category. You clearly are not and I regret I wasn’t more clear, cause you bring up solid points and take the time to articulate them. So again, my bad bro.
You may not have intended to be the torch bearer of that lazy narrative, but you can’t deny that exists. Many fans think that way and do their best to deflect any type of critique towards Rob.
So I apologize for putting words in your mouth, but all I saw next to all the moves made pre-2019 was Tragic. So my first thought was, “here we again.” So maybe adding Rob next to Tragic would have motivated me not to respond in the manner that I did.
In terms of miscommunication, we know what happened with Dwight. Marc was ready to come back and honor his 2nd year after the Olympics, but then weeks later Stein reported a Marc return wasn’t a “lock”. Then the same type of broken down communication occurred with AC.
Quote:
In the wake of my report about the Lakers not countering Alex Caruso’s four-year, $37 million offer from Chicago in free agency, a source with knowledge of the negotiations strongly refuted the inference that he wasn’t wanted back. That doesn’t change the fact that Caruso’s side claimed to be confused about the communication element of the negotiation, but it seems the Lakers’ calculus was similar to the one Milwaukee faced with P.J. Tucker. – via Sam Amick @ The Athletic
As for Rob jumping into a decision maker position of GM from the jump, it can’t be compared to Myers since dude started off as an assistant GM first.
Quote:
Myers originally joined the Warriors on April 14, 2011, as assistant general manager/vice president of basketball operations, after enjoying a highly successful 14-year stint as a representative to numerous NBA players. During his first year with the Warriors organization, he worked closely under the tutelage of then-General Manager Larry Riley on all Basketball Operations matters, including contract negotiations, talent evaluation, roster management, scouting and CBA compliance.
Also Luke was fired by Rob. Magic intended to fire him, but Rob actually did it.
My position on Rob’s title was Bron getting 4 months of rehab in-season….something that’s never happened before. I did not like the pivot from 3rd max to Green/Kcp/McGee/Boog/Cook. I believed it would be good enough for the regular season, but come playoff time, we could get knocked out. And seeing how it was just Bron as the only perimeter oriented playmaker on that team (recall Rondo broke his hand), under normal league conditions, dude could have gassed out and our title chances with it.
I would just appreciate that folks avoid deflecting warranted critiques. Magic and Rob both deserve the blame as well as the acclaim during that tenure. I applaud Rob in bringing in AD, but let’s not ignore Demps being replaced by Griff who had more rapport with Klutch….let’s not forget they were gifted with Zion as an AD replacement while we lucked into hitting #4 to add to our trade arsenal. Even AD Sr made IT where Boston no longer could trade their best assets for a 1&done AD. So as the only legitimate bidder at the table, we have up way too much by including all those deferment options limiting our draft flexibility.
All in all, Rob exploits situations like a boss (see buyout market additions, renouncing RFAs like Nunn this year and even Kcp that started off our shine klutch alliance…it’s why dude called it manna, cause without Detroit doing that, it’s a whole lot of PG rated tampering to get Bron in the cut. And of course the pivot from Buddy to a suddenly available Russ.
But as much as he is a G by taking advantage of the unforeseen/unplanned, he really is a poor asset manager. He also seems to be a poor negotiator as seen: with premium free agency targets as well as miscommunications (see Marc/Drummond & Dwight/Harrell debacles), being unable to salvage the Schro situation to turn it into a positive (after promising him as a starter and that ridiculous extension).
Anyways, I can agree with you on one thing…we shouldn’t belabor this particular topic.
So moving on…
Lakerfan 4 Life wrote:
Dubs are waiving Avery. That's a bit of a shocker.
They also opened up a 15th roster spot by waiving GP’s kid as well.
Quote:
Anthony Slater
@anthonyVslater
Warriors have also waived Gary Payton II. The 15th spot is currently vacant. But Steve Kerr said there will be "discussions" in the coming days about the vacancy. I'm hearing that there is a possibility of bringing Payton back, once the process plays out.
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Same tired posters, posting the same tired viewpoints, on the same tired subject, yet in the wrong thread.
It’s like a bad episode of the Twilight Zone...better yet, A broken clock is right twice a day zone.
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