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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:56 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Do you think he'll play Monday? I believe courts have options to rule on weekends.


I don't know anything about the Australian legal system to be able to predict what the outcome will be. It'd just be a straight up wild guess.

Yeah, he'll know by Sunday night Australian time.


You know what, now that I know the basis for why his visa got revoked a second time, I think he has a legit shot at getting it overturned:

Quote:
The main ground of appeal against Hawke's decision, according to the athlete's lawyers, was that it was not based on the health risk that Djokovic might pose by not being vaccinated, but on how he might be perceived by anti-vaxxers.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:49 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Do you think he'll play Monday? I believe courts have options to rule on weekends.


I don't know anything about the Australian legal system to be able to predict what the outcome will be. It'd just be a straight up wild guess.

Yeah, he'll know by Sunday night Australian time.


You know what, now that I know the basis for why his visa got revoked a second time, I think he has a legit shot at getting it overturned:

Quote:
The main ground of appeal against Hawke's decision, according to the athlete's lawyers, was that it was not based on the health risk that Djokovic might pose by not being vaccinated, but on how he might be perceived by anti-vaxxers.


I believe their point is that granting him permission to stay despite his status is going to be construed incorrectly by the public—and that is a legitimate concern. And the fact remains, he is violation of their vax mandates, and the reasoning above is in addition to that.

It's also important to note that a female czheck player was summarily taken into custody and kicked out of the country because of her non-vax status.

So I think we can forgo any claims that it's Joker that's being treated unfairly. He's getting all kinds of consideration that others aren't.

The guy should just do the right thing and go home. But he's an arrogant prick who has all kinds of clout because he's an elite male player with the resources to mess with the system.

(bleep) this guy. If he somehow manages to intimidate and manipulate his way to stay and play, I hope the POS suffers a serious injury in the early rounds. I mean seriously, this isn't just some standards of play issue like proper attire or court behavior. This is a vaccination issue during an ongoing pandemic. If he is not going to do the right and proper thing because of his selfish ego's need to defend his title, he deserves bad karma.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:19 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
And the fact remains, he is violation of their vax mandates

If a country has an exemption to their vax mandates, and they approve you to enter their country under that exemption, are you still in violation?


DaMuleRules wrote:
(bleep) this guy. If he somehow manages to intimidate and manipulate his way to stay and play, I hope the POS suffers a serious injury in the early rounds.


Wow.

How serious of an injury were you thinking? Like, career ending injury?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:29 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
(bleep) this guy. If he somehow manages to intimidate and manipulate his way to stay and play, I hope the POS suffers a serious injury in the early rounds.


Wow.

How serious of an injury were you thinking? Like, career ending injury?


No, just enough to send him home. I'm tired of ignorant people putting themselves ahead of others with their anti-vax crap. And when an arrogant guy like Joker uses his international acclaim to say the rules don't apply to him and thus compound the problem of trying to curtail the pandemic for their own aggrandizement, they deserve karma slapping them in the face.

Like I said, this isn't some minor technical issue regarding attending pressers, what a player is wearing or on court misconduct. This is behavior that involves a worldwide effort to tame a pandemic and keep people safe. He's a selfish ahole, and I have no problem if that catches up with him.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:32 pm    Post subject:

Djoker also has the backing of the highest levels of the Serbian government which is threatening to cause an international incident over this.....which is probably why he hasn't been kicked out of the country yet.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:32 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
If a country has an exemption to their vax mandates, and they approve you to enter their country under that exemption, are you still in violation?


He misrepresented himself in regards to the exemption.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:33 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Do you think he'll play Monday? I believe courts have options to rule on weekends.


I don't know anything about the Australian legal system to be able to predict what the outcome will be. It'd just be a straight up wild guess.

Yeah, he'll know by Sunday night Australian time.


You know what, now that I know the basis for why his visa got revoked a second time, I think he has a legit shot at getting it overturned:

Quote:
The main ground of appeal against Hawke's decision, according to the athlete's lawyers, was that it was not based on the health risk that Djokovic might pose by not being vaccinated, but on how he might be perceived by anti-vaxxers.


I don't read his reason as how he might be perceived by anti-vaxxers.
Quote:
Hawke said he canceled the visa on "health and good order grounds, on the basis that it was in the public interest to do so." His statement added that Prime Minister Scott Morrison's government "is firmly committed to protecting Australia's borders, particularly in relation to the COVID-19 pandemic.

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Last edited by jodeke on Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:35 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Djoker also has the backing of the highest levels of the Serbian government which is threatening to cause an international incident over this.....which is probably why he hasn't been kicked out of the country yet.


Oh . . . well then that makes his (bleep) OK . . . right? I mean screw the check woman who was kicked out because her government didn't make a stink on her behalf. Privilege and power is all that matters.
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:36 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Djoker also has the backing of the highest levels of the Serbian government which is threatening to cause an international incident over this.....which is probably why he hasn't been kicked out of the country yet.


Oh . . . well then that makes his (bleep) OK . . . right? I mean screw the check woman who was kicked out because her government didn't make a stink on her behalf. Privilege and power is all that matters.


Not saying its right or not...just telling you why he has some leverage and control in this situation.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:43 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Djoker also has the backing of the highest levels of the Serbian government which is threatening to cause an international incident over this.....which is probably why he hasn't been kicked out of the country yet.

If the "Serbian government wants to rail against what's good for the citizens of another country, have at it. In my eyes that action would be absurd. How will they look to country's that are being overwhelmed by the pandemic?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:04 pm    Post subject:

Jokobitchslapped.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:05 pm    Post subject:

Here's the thing. Joker represents everything that is wrong with anti-vaxxers. None of them ever simpy express the idea that they don't feel the vaccination is something they want to do and that they will respect the welfare of others and lay low. No, they all aggressively assert that their "freedom" to refuse the vax is more important than the safety of everyone else and thus insist they should be able to have the same opportunities to engage in day to day life as those who are trying to navigate a way to actually get us back to normal.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:38 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
If a country has an exemption to their vax mandates, and they approve you to enter their country under that exemption, are you still in violation?


He misrepresented himself in regards to the exemption.


But you said:

Quote:
And the fact remains, he is violation of their vax mandates


Is it a fact right now that he's in violation of the vax mandates? Because the report from The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age states that in the government's filings, Immigration Minister Alex Hawke:

Quote:
In it, Hawke conceded Djokovic had in fact entered Australia with a valid medical exemption and posed a low risk of contracting the virus and passing it on to others due to his recent infection.


So if the Immigration Minister Alex Hawke concedes that Djokovic is in Australia on a valid medical exemption, then is he still in violation of their anti-vax mandate?
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:41 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Here's the thing. Joker represents everything that is wrong with anti-vaxxers. None of them ever simpy express the idea that they don't feel the vaccination is something they want to do and that they will respect the welfare of others and lay low. No, they all aggressively assert that their "freedom" to refuse the vax is more important than the safety of everyone else and thus insist they should be able to have the same opportunities to engage in day to day life as those who are trying to navigate a way to actually get us back to normal.


Ok. But who's job is it to punish him for this?

The government? The people? Bad karma?

So far, this is a legal fight and he might win.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:55 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
I don't read his reason as how he might be perceived by anti-vaxxers.
Quote:
Hawke said he canceled the visa on "health and good order grounds, on the basis that it was in the public interest to do so." His statement added that Prime Minister Scott Morrison's government "is firmly committed to protecting Australia's borders, particularly in relation to the COVID-19 pandemic.


Yeah, you have to look into the court filings to get his reason for cancelling Djokovic's visa a 2nd time:

Quote:
Novak Djokovic visa: Australian minister Alex Hawke says risk of ‘civil unrest’ behind cancellation

Australia’s immigration minister, Alex Hawke, personally cancelled the unvaccinated world No 1’s visa, arguing his presence in Australia could incite “civil unrest” and encourage others to eschew vaccination against Covid-19.

Djokovic faces a federal court hearing Sunday morning, Australia time, which will determine whether the minister acted unreasonably in rescinding his visa.

Documents filed in the court reveal the minister’s reasons sent to Djokovic as justification for cancelling his visa.

Hawke said he accepted Djokovic’s recent Covid-19 infection meant he was a “negligible risk to those around him”, but that he was “perceived by some as a talisman of a community of anti-vaccine sentiment”.

“I consider that Mr Djokovic’s ongoing presence in Australia may lead to an increase in anti-vaccination sentiment generated in the Australian community, potentially leading to an increase in civil unrest of the kind previously experienced in Australia with rallies and protests which may themselves be a source of community transmission.

“Mr Djokovic is … a person of influence and status.

“Having regard to … Mr Djokovic’s conduct after receiving a positive Covid-19 result, his publicly stated views, as well as his unvaccinated status, I consider that his ongoing presence in Australia may encourage other people to disregard or act inconsistently with public health advice and policies in Australia.”


Djokovic’s visa was cancelled under the extraordinary and broad powers vested in the Australian immigration minister under section 133C(3) of Australia’s Migration Act, introduced in 2014 when Scott Morrison, the current prime minister, was immigration minister.

Having had a visa cancelled under that section, a person is barred from returning to Australia for three years, except in extraordinary circumstances “that affect the interests of Australia or compassionate or compelling circumstances affecting the interests of an Australian citizen”.

Hawke said the consequences of Djokovic’s visa cancellation were “significant”.

“Mr Djokovic regularly travels to Australia to compete in tennis tournaments … this visa cancellation … may affect his ability to be granted a visa to enter Australia in the future.”

If the three-year ban is upheld against Djokovic, he would be 37 or 38 years old before being allowed back into Australia, to compete in a tournament he has won a record nine times.

Djokovic’s legal team argued the minister failed to consider that the government’s detention of Djokovic and his potential forced removal from Australia might also incite anti-vaccination sentiment.

In documents submitted to the court, lawyers for Djokovic argued the minister took an “illogical, irrational, [and] unreasonable approach to… the question of public interest” and his own exercise of ministerial discretion.

“The minister cited no evidence that supported his finding that Mr Djokovic’s presence in Australia may ‘foster anti-vaccination sentiment’, and it was not open to the minister to make that finding.”

Djokovic’s lawyers argued the minister’s characterisation that Djokovic held anti-vaccination views was unjustified, based on selectively edited historical comments in the media, and which had been repudiated by subsequent public statements that he was “not against vaccination”.

Djokovic confirmed in his airport interview that he was not vaccinated against Covid-19.

Migration law experts have questioned why, if the Australian government held concerns Djokovic would inspire anti-vaccination sentiment in Australia, this was not considered in the original decision to grant him a visa on 18 November, or when his visa was first cancelled at the airport.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jan/15/novak-djokovic-visa-australian-minister-alex-hawke-says-risk-of-civil-unrest-behind-cancellation


And this is the part I want to highlight:

Quote:
Hawke said he accepted Djokovic’s recent Covid-19 infection meant he was a “negligible risk to those around him”,....


So he does concede that Djokovic poses little to no threat to other people.

Quote:
....but that he was “perceived by some as a talisman of a community of anti-vaccine sentiment”.


His main argument is that anti-vaxxers will follow Djokovic.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:08 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Djoker also has the backing of the highest levels of the Serbian government which is threatening to cause an international incident over this.....which is probably why he hasn't been kicked out of the country yet.


Oh . . . well then that makes his (bleep) OK . . . right? I mean screw the check woman who was kicked out because her government didn't make a stink on her behalf. Privilege and power is all that matters.


Maybe they should have? She definitely feels wronged:

Quote:
Australian Open: deported women’s player Renata Voracova threatens legal action, as WTA says she ‘did nothing wrong’


-Czech player was removed from country despite initially being granted entry

-Voracova, who even played in a warm-up game ahead of first grand slam, is demanding compensation from governing body


The Women’s Tennis Association has said Renata Voracova did nothing wrong after the Czech player was detained on the same “unfortunate” grounds as Novak Djokovic and deported from Australia.
Voracova and men’s world number one Djokovic had their visas cancelled after presenting Covid-19 vaccination exemptions ahead of the Australian Open.
While the 38-year-old was initially granted entry and even managed a doubles match at a Melbourne tournament in the run-up to the opening grand slam of the year, she was deported while Djokovic won a court battle to remain.

Voracova has threatened to take Tennis Australia to court if they do not compensate her for the expenses she incurred getting there, and for potential lost earnings from the tournament, which starts on Monday.
On Wednesday, the WTA said it believed all players should be vaccinated and backed Australia’s immigration policies, but bemoaned the “unfortunate” way some had been treated.

“Renata Voracova followed these rules and procedures, was cleared for entry upon her arrival, competed in an event and then suddenly had her visa cancelled when she had done nothing wrong,” the WTA said in a statement.
“We will continue to work with all authorities on addressing this unfortunate situation in an appropriate manner.”

Voracova said she would demand compensation from the organisers of the Australian Open, and it “won’t be small”.

“The air ticket alone cost 60,000 Czech crowns (US$2,800) and my coach travelled with me,” she told the Denik daily after arriving back in Prague.

“And then there is all that time, hotels, training for the grand slam, the potential prize money. I hope Tennis Australia will face up to it and that we won’t have to take legal steps.”


I don't know what the Australian government is doing but this is ridiculous. Why are they granting visas and then revoking them and deporting people? Makes no sense. They are causing unnecessary headaches for people.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:24 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:

Quote:
I don't know what the Australian government is doing but this is ridiculous. Why are they granting visas and then revoking them and deporting people? Makes no sense. They are causing unnecessary headaches for people.


You're one of those who will prolong the virus.

Bottom line Novac is unvaccinated and is a threat to pass the virus on.

I believe in the CDC. Science is front row in my eyes. Whether you think Australia is right or wrong, CDC says Novac is a threat.

Stand on your soapbox and side with unvaccinated. I'll stand with CDC.

Have you been vaccinated?
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Last edited by jodeke on Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:01 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:

I don't know what the Australian government is doing but this is ridiculous. Why are they granting visas and then revoking them and deporting people? Makes no sense. They are causing unnecessary headaches for people.




Look, Australia could have certainly handled this better.

But here's the bottomline—Djokovik is the unvaxxed one. He has selfishly exposed people and misrepresented his status. He's putting his ego and privilege at the forefront to pursue a tennis title rather than do the right thing in a worldwide pandemic. Australia is making its decisions in the interest of public safety.

The Australian authorities are not the problem here, no matter much you wish to cast them as such.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:15 am    Post subject:

Not sure this has been mentioned: Chris Evert has stage 1 ovarian cancer and is undergoing treatment. It's huge that they caught it early, as she apparently has a 90% chance to recover fully. Her doctors said that in 3-4 months it would have spread and become stage 3, at which point you basically have very little hope for long-term survival. Her sister died of the disease a few years ago. Evert had a preventative hysterectomy last year and that's when they discovered the cancer.

When I first got into watching tennis as a kid, she was by far my favorite player. I just hope that she recovers fully.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:32 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
When I first got into watching tennis as a kid, she was by far my favorite player. I just hope that she recovers fully.


I enjoyed watching her go at it, with Navratilova.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:32 pm    Post subject:

Chris was my favorite female player. I hope she fully recovers.

Did any here see Althea Gibson play? I remember watching in the late 50's. I wasn't much into tennis. The reason I have a memory of her is because she was Black. She's considered the Jackie Robinson of tennis, broke the color line. She won the Australian Open, French Open, Wimbledon, and U S Open. WIKI
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:30 pm    Post subject:

Deportation order dismissed....very bad news for the Djoker since it not also affects his participation for this years Aussie Open but the following years as well.
https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/33076998/novak-djokovic-loses-deportation-appeal-australia
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:22 am    Post subject:

What a buffoon, and many of his supporters seem to be as dense as he is.

They deserve each other.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:24 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Deportation order dismissed....very bad news for the Djoker since it not also affects his participation for this years Aussie Open but the following years as well.
https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/33076998/novak-djokovic-loses-deportation-appeal-australia



He won't be able to play the Australian Open for another 3 years. Self-aggrandizement has backfired. When will people adhere to Spock’s Illogic: “The Needs of the Many Outweigh the Needs of the Few or the One”

Glad they kicked his ass out of their country. Way to stand up Hawke. 👍🏾
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:25 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:

I don't know what the Australian government is doing but this is ridiculous. Why are they granting visas and then revoking them and deporting people? Makes no sense. They are causing unnecessary headaches for people.




Look, Australia could have certainly handled this better.

But here's the bottomline—Djokovik is the unvaxxed one. He has selfishly exposed people and misrepresented his status. He's putting his ego and privilege at the forefront to pursue a tennis title rather than do the right thing in a worldwide pandemic. Australia is making its decisions in the interest of public safety.

The Australian authorities are not the problem here, no matter much you wish to cast them as such.
Why does there need to be a bottom line? Your (and my) view is established. Guy should have gotten vaccinated. And not just to be able to play a tennis tournament.

Australia, as in the federal government, totally could have handled this better. As could Tennis Australia who really should have their feet held to the fire. Why give him the opportunity to apply for an exemption? Guy relied on it, and jumps on a plane. Gets detained and eventually gets deported. They f'd up. Deny him. As far as the exemption itself, two independent medical panels approved apparently (not sure if this is established) with Djokovic's application being anonymized along with the others who applied.
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