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PICKnPOP
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 Posted: Sun May 12, 2024 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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Personally I think the reason players don’t find success in the G-league is because everyone wants to score. It’s kind of silly when you think about it because NBA teams already have scorers. If you’re going to make the jump from G-league to NBA you need to fit a role and scoring is almost never going to be it unless you’re exceptional.
The players in the Gleague dominating the ball and have a chance to do the same in thr NBA are first round picks that are still developing. He was drafted in the first round to be a point guard, so dominating the ball and putting up numbers is actually a good thing for him. Now we need it to translate to the NBA. I expect him to have a better summer league this year and to be a rotation player next season. Either way we kind of have to be patient because he was recruited at IU to be a shooting guard and was thrown into point guard because of injuries. Plus he did hurt himself this past season.
I guess I’m just saying we can be patient with him since he has a few valid excuses.
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lakerfanaticPT
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun May 12, 2024 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| If an opportunistic trade presents itself, I would not hesitate to include JHS, otherwise, try and develop and hope/pray he actually does. |
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Bron2AD
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Joined: 01 Jun 2021
Posts: 9752
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| Posted: Sun May 12, 2024 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| We won't even get a 1st in this week draft for this bust |
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MJST
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Sun May 12, 2024 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Shaolin's Finest wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Shaolin's Finest wrote: | | sonic the laker wrote: | | It's wild to me how some people are so confident that JHS is a bust, after seeing him in limited minutes, IN HIS ROOKIE SEASON. It's way too early to proclaim whether he'll be a bust, a solid rotation player, or a star. Hope he fully recovers from his injury, and puts in the hard work to improve his game for next season. If not included in some trade, I'm looking forward to how he looks. |
The guy is slow, unathletic, can't shoot, can't defend, can't playmake. Didn't even look good in the summer league. Tell me exactly what he's shown for anybody to be optimistic? He was a questionable selection the time the pick was made and didn't do a single thing to prove otherwise. Still have no idea what they were thinking with this selection when guys like Whitmore and JJJ were sitting right there. |
You put stock in summer league but ignore him dominating in the g league... okay then. |
Who cares if he dominates the G League. |
Don't put stock in Summer League performance if you're going to ignore G-League Dominance. Unless you just want to keep moving goalposts.
| PICKnPOP wrote: | Personally I think the reason players don’t find success in the G-league is because everyone wants to score. It’s kind of silly when you think about it because NBA teams already have scorers. If you’re going to make the jump from G-league to NBA you need to fit a role and scoring is almost never going to be it unless you’re exceptional.
The players in the Gleague dominating the ball and have a chance to do the same in thr NBA are first round picks that are still developing. He was drafted in the first round to be a point guard, so dominating the ball and putting up numbers is actually a good thing for him. Now we need it to translate to the NBA. I expect him to have a better summer league this year and to be a rotation player next season. Either way we kind of have to be patient because he was recruited at IU to be a shooting guard and was thrown into point guard because of injuries. Plus he did hurt himself this past season.
I guess I’m just saying we can be patient with him since he has a few valid excuses. |
It's always interesting how some people would defend wasting a pick on Bronny James, when I'm willing to bet dollars to cents that even JHS is currently a much better player than him. And if Bronny makes the jump to the league right now so early, he's not doing much for his prospects of becoming better either.
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Shaolin's Finest
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Joined: 08 Jan 2009
Posts: 1440
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 2:27 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: |
Don't put stock in Summer League performance if you're going to ignore G-League Dominance. Unless you just want to keep moving goalposts.
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Who is moving goalposts? Way to ignore my entire post
You're the one hyping up someone for their "dominance" in the G League. I provided you the last 3 G League MVPs who can't even sniff a single minute on an NBA court, yet we're supposed to be impressed by JHS because he looks decent in a league where Mac McClung is the MVP? That's not a ringing endorsement that you think it is
Again, "the last 3 MVPs of the G League are Mac McLung, Carlik Jones, and Trevelin Queen. Do any of them even play in the NBA? Why do you keep bringing up his success in the G League as if it's any indicator of how his success will be in the NBA. Using your logic, JHS couldn't even beat out McClung for the G League MVP. The same McClung who isn't good enough to play a single minute in the NBA last year."
But feel free to ignore my point again and continue on with your fantasies |
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MJST
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| Shaolin's Finest wrote: | | MJST wrote: |
Don't put stock in Summer League performance if you're going to ignore G-League Dominance. Unless you just want to keep moving goalposts.
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Who is moving goalposts? Way to ignore my entire post
You're the one hyping up someone for their "dominance" in the G League. I provided you the last 3 G League MVPs who can't even sniff a single minute on an NBA court, |
Point is you were trying to use what he does in Summer League as some kind of barometer. So if to you Summer League is a legitimate barometer, than G-League is a greater one.
So you can't say "he sucks he didn't play well in Summer League" and then when he plays well in G-League go "Well... G-League doesn't matter anyway." G-League matters a heck of a lot more than Summer League.
That's why you're moving goalposts. And then you go "Well these other players played well in G-League and didn't do anything in the NBA." Yeah there's plenty of players that have played well in G-League that didn't translate in the NBA, just as there's plenty of players that played well in G-League and played well in the NBA and carved our roles for themselves, as well as people that sucked in both and wound up playing well in the league.
The fact 'others have played well in the G-League and done nothing', wasn't even the point that was being discussed, so don't switch it. If you took from Summer League that he was untalented and unable, but you ignore/discredit G-League then you're basically taking the more meaningless performances and using them to try to establish or confirm your opinion. Because then when harder competition + success comes up, you try to diminish it or devalue it, while somehow assuming your opinion on what he did in Summer League holds more value than what he did in G-League. It doesn't.
The positives is that JHS was playing extremely well in G-League before his surgery and showed some talent and avenues that he can be successful at should they translate at the next level. Will they? We don't know yet. That isn't what's being argued.
The reality is, his Summer League performance meant nothing, his G-League performance means more and gives hope for the potential he can have, as players that have both done well in the G-League both are successful in the league and not, so you take the positives that he played well there and see if he is able to translate it at the next level in avenues outside of garbage time.
All we have on JHS so far is, first year played extremely well in G-League, barely got play time and never seemed to find a rhythm during garbage time, let's see what he continues to bring next season, as the G-League performance yields optimism.
You can say "Well player B and C never did anything" and could easily be countered with "Player A, D and E did.". Fact is, him performing so well in G-League is a positive and could mean something going forward in what he may bring to the table once he gets up to NBA speed. It's relevant that there's positives to look forward to in that regard when it comes to what he may or may not be. Will he reach those heights? Nobody knows. But we do know he showed talent in what he could do at the G-League level. So now it's time to see if that happens when he catches up to NBA Speed, and that's all there is to realistically go off of.
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manlisten
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Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 3289
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 9:17 am Post subject: |
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G- League performance is not a reliable indicator of NBA success and shouldn't be used to evaluate a player.
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Shaolin's Finest
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Joined: 08 Jan 2009
Posts: 1440
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Shaolin's Finest wrote: | | MJST wrote: |
Don't put stock in Summer League performance if you're going to ignore G-League Dominance. Unless you just want to keep moving goalposts.
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Who is moving goalposts? Way to ignore my entire post
You're the one hyping up someone for their "dominance" in the G League. I provided you the last 3 G League MVPs who can't even sniff a single minute on an NBA court, |
Point is you were trying to use what he does in Summer League as some kind of barometer. So if to you Summer League is a legitimate barometer, than G-League is a greater one.
So you can't say "he sucks he didn't play well in Summer League" and then when he plays well in G-League go "Well... G-League doesn't matter anyway." G-League matters a heck of a lot more than Summer League.
That's why you're moving goalposts. And then you go "Well these other players played well in G-League and didn't do anything in the NBA." Yeah there's plenty of players that have played well in G-League that didn't translate in the NBA, just as there's plenty of players that played well in G-League and played well in the NBA and carved our roles for themselves, as well as people that sucked in both and wound up playing well in the league.
The fact 'others have played well in the G-League and done nothing', wasn't even the point that was being discussed, so don't switch it. If you took from Summer League that he was untalented and unable, but you ignore/discredit G-League then you're basically taking the more meaningless performances and using them to try to establish or confirm your opinion. Because then when harder competition + success comes up, you try to diminish it or devalue it, while somehow assuming your opinion on what he did in Summer League holds more value than what he did in G-League. It doesn't.
The positives is that JHS was playing extremely well in G-League before his surgery and showed some talent and avenues that he can be successful at should they translate at the next level. Will they? We don't know yet. That isn't what's being argued.
The reality is, his Summer League performance meant nothing, his G-League performance means more and gives hope for the potential he can have, as players that have both done well in the G-League both are successful in the league and not, so you take the positives that he played well there and see if he is able to translate it at the next level in avenues outside of garbage time.
All we have on JHS so far is, first year played extremely well in G-League, barely got play time and never seemed to find a rhythm during garbage time, let's see what he continues to bring next season, as the G-League performance yields optimism.
You can say "Well player B and C never did anything" and could easily be countered with "Player A, D and E did.". Fact is, him performing so well in G-League is a positive and could mean something going forward in what he may bring to the table once he gets up to NBA speed. It's relevant that there's positives to look forward to in that regard when it comes to what he may or may not be. Will he reach those heights? Nobody knows. But we do know he showed talent in what he could do at the G-League level. So now it's time to see if that happens when he catches up to NBA Speed, and that's all there is to realistically go off of. |
For sure brother, let's hope he succeeds.
Sorry didn't mean to get snippy with you, just frustrated at the current state of this team, that's all... |
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Denny_Russo
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jan 2016
Posts: 3027
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 11:47 am Post subject: |
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I think what he shows in the SL this year will be a good indicator of what the Lakers do with him. Not that SL is the end-all for everything, but you've got to show something against pro competition. The g-league seems to be a gray area because the dudes that average monster numbers just end up going overseas or stay on the end of the bench. It's more about how he contributes to winning and sets the tempo of games than the raw statistics. That's how guys like Caruso and Nwaba were found. They were fierce defenders.
Either way, I'll be rooting for him. There has to be a reason they picked him at 17, right? Right? Word has it he was a Rob pick, so I'll always have my doubts until something is shown.
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dcarter4kobe
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17836
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sure it's not a given he plays in the summer league.
His back surgery wasn't given an exact TL. He had surgery on 03/21. Summe League is typically mid July? That's about 3.5 months.
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MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 27013
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Shaolin's Finest wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Shaolin's Finest wrote: | | MJST wrote: |
Don't put stock in Summer League performance if you're going to ignore G-League Dominance. Unless you just want to keep moving goalposts.
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Who is moving goalposts? Way to ignore my entire post
You're the one hyping up someone for their "dominance" in the G League. I provided you the last 3 G League MVPs who can't even sniff a single minute on an NBA court, |
Point is you were trying to use what he does in Summer League as some kind of barometer. So if to you Summer League is a legitimate barometer, than G-League is a greater one.
So you can't say "he sucks he didn't play well in Summer League" and then when he plays well in G-League go "Well... G-League doesn't matter anyway." G-League matters a heck of a lot more than Summer League.
That's why you're moving goalposts. And then you go "Well these other players played well in G-League and didn't do anything in the NBA." Yeah there's plenty of players that have played well in G-League that didn't translate in the NBA, just as there's plenty of players that played well in G-League and played well in the NBA and carved our roles for themselves, as well as people that sucked in both and wound up playing well in the league.
The fact 'others have played well in the G-League and done nothing', wasn't even the point that was being discussed, so don't switch it. If you took from Summer League that he was untalented and unable, but you ignore/discredit G-League then you're basically taking the more meaningless performances and using them to try to establish or confirm your opinion. Because then when harder competition + success comes up, you try to diminish it or devalue it, while somehow assuming your opinion on what he did in Summer League holds more value than what he did in G-League. It doesn't.
The positives is that JHS was playing extremely well in G-League before his surgery and showed some talent and avenues that he can be successful at should they translate at the next level. Will they? We don't know yet. That isn't what's being argued.
The reality is, his Summer League performance meant nothing, his G-League performance means more and gives hope for the potential he can have, as players that have both done well in the G-League both are successful in the league and not, so you take the positives that he played well there and see if he is able to translate it at the next level in avenues outside of garbage time.
All we have on JHS so far is, first year played extremely well in G-League, barely got play time and never seemed to find a rhythm during garbage time, let's see what he continues to bring next season, as the G-League performance yields optimism.
You can say "Well player B and C never did anything" and could easily be countered with "Player A, D and E did.". Fact is, him performing so well in G-League is a positive and could mean something going forward in what he may bring to the table once he gets up to NBA speed. It's relevant that there's positives to look forward to in that regard when it comes to what he may or may not be. Will he reach those heights? Nobody knows. But we do know he showed talent in what he could do at the G-League level. So now it's time to see if that happens when he catches up to NBA Speed, and that's all there is to realistically go off of. |
For sure brother, let's hope he succeeds.
Sorry didn't mean to get snippy with you, just frustrated at the current state of this team, that's all... |
No problem. We all want the team to succeed.
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How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
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ducasse
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Joined: 05 Sep 2002
Posts: 8428
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| Posted: Tue May 14, 2024 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | G- League performance is not a reliable indicator of NBA success and shouldn't be used to evaluate a player. |
If they don't excel in G league I think that's a good indicator for evaluation. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Tue May 14, 2024 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| lakerfanaticPT wrote: | | If an opportunistic trade presents itself, I would not hesitate to include JHS, otherwise, try and develop and hope/pray he actually does. |
I imagine there would be few if any inquiries for a player who was about as bad as you can be in limited minutes and then had back surgery. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Tue May 14, 2024 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| ducasse wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | G- League performance is not a reliable indicator of NBA success and shouldn't be used to evaluate a player. |
If they don't excel in G league I think that's a good indicator for evaluation. |
You got a lot of Lakers fans overhyping Bronny going 2/8 and 0/6 from three in the 5v5 sscrimmage at the combine because he hit two floaters. But at the same time a lot of them will treat JHS playing well in the G-League as if its meaningless.
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LakersMD
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Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 8053
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| Posted: Tue May 14, 2024 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Denny_Russo wrote: | | I think what he shows in the SL this year will be a good indicator of what the Lakers do with him. Not that SL is the end-all for everything, but you've got to show something against pro competition. |
Especially second year players. Rookies having one bad SL doesn’t mean much but it’s a major red flag if they don’t play well in their second year. |
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lakerfanaticPT
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 1580
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| Posted: Tue May 14, 2024 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | lakerfanaticPT wrote: | | If an opportunistic trade presents itself, I would not hesitate to include JHS, otherwise, try and develop and hope/pray he actually does. |
I imagine there would be few if any inquiries for a player who was about as bad as you can be in limited minutes and then had back surgery. |
Hence the word IF |
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lakersfan32
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 4016
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| Posted: Tue May 14, 2024 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | ducasse wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | G- League performance is not a reliable indicator of NBA success and shouldn't be used to evaluate a player. |
If they don't excel in G league I think that's a good indicator for evaluation. |
You got a lot of Lakers fans overhyping Bronny going 2/8 and 0/6 from three in the 5v5 sscrimmage at the combine because he hit two floaters. But at the same time a lot of them will treat JHS playing well in the G-League as if its meaningless. |
bronny can touch the rim, lol |
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MJST
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| Posted: Tue May 14, 2024 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersfan32 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | ducasse wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | G- League performance is not a reliable indicator of NBA success and shouldn't be used to evaluate a player. |
If they don't excel in G league I think that's a good indicator for evaluation. |
You got a lot of Lakers fans overhyping Bronny going 2/8 and 0/6 from three in the 5v5 sscrimmage at the combine because he hit two floaters. But at the same time a lot of them will treat JHS playing well in the G-League as if its meaningless. |
bronny can touch the rim, lol |
And JHS can average more than 5 points against College competition.
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SGV-Laker fan
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Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 9183
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2024 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| JHS is 10 times a better player than Bronny today. there's no debate for that. JHS was the best player on a D1 historic college hoop program, and Bronny came off the bench for SC, enough said. |
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mad55557777
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23694
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2024 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | G- League performance is not a reliable indicator of NBA success and shouldn't be used to evaluate a player. |
THT strongly agrees |
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Denny_Russo
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Joined: 27 Jan 2016
Posts: 3027
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2024 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| LakersMD wrote: | | Denny_Russo wrote: | | I think what he shows in the SL this year will be a good indicator of what the Lakers do with him. Not that SL is the end-all for everything, but you've got to show something against pro competition. |
Especially second year players. Rookies having one bad SL doesn’t mean much but it’s a major red flag if they don’t play well in their second year. |
I'm just going off of what I see from the typical successful 2nd year players. They improve, learn the intricacies and nuances of the NBA game and usually show everything they learned during the regular season in SL the following year. JHS is obviously talented enough to know how to dominate the SL. He just has to show some spark of life there for management to have faith in him.
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Don Draper
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Posts: 28594
Location: LA --> Bay Area
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2024 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Denny_Russo wrote: | I think what he shows in the SL this year will be a good indicator of what the Lakers do with him. Not that SL is the end-all for everything, but you've got to show something against pro competition. The g-league seems to be a gray area because the dudes that average monster numbers just end up going overseas or stay on the end of the bench. It's more about how he contributes to winning and sets the tempo of games than the raw statistics. That's how guys like Caruso and Nwaba were found. They were fierce defenders.
Either way, I'll be rooting for him. There has to be a reason they picked him at 17, right? Right? Word has it he was a Rob pick, so I'll always have my doubts until something is shown. |
Summer league since like 2016 I feel has been pretty good portent of at least someone's ability to be an NBA player. Lonzo and Kuzma killed it and looked like they did in the NBA. Jaquez looked good. There are more too. Gone are the days of guys like Ebanks and Derek Caracter tearing it up and looking like trash in the NBA. |
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governator
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Posts: 25361
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2024 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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Man, it’s better to do well in G-league meaning the NBA door as a good player is still open… now if u stank in the G-league, u stank
Now Son of the Kang, Prince Bronny… comp for tiny under 6’2” guards… unless ur defensive pest-ness is at Grand Theft Alvarado or Scrappy TJ Mac/JJ Barea level, u Mac McClung
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pjiddy
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Posts: 29245
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2024 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Don Draper wrote: | | Denny_Russo wrote: | I think what he shows in the SL this year will be a good indicator of what the Lakers do with him. Not that SL is the end-all for everything, but you've got to show something against pro competition. The g-league seems to be a gray area because the dudes that average monster numbers just end up going overseas or stay on the end of the bench. It's more about how he contributes to winning and sets the tempo of games than the raw statistics. That's how guys like Caruso and Nwaba were found. They were fierce defenders.
Either way, I'll be rooting for him. There has to be a reason they picked him at 17, right? Right? Word has it he was a Rob pick, so I'll always have my doubts until something is shown. |
Summer league since like 2016 I feel has been pretty good portent of at least someone's ability to be an NBA player. Lonzo and Kuzma killed it and looked like they did in the NBA. Jaquez looked good. There are more too. Gone are the days of guys like Ebanks and Derek Caracter tearing it up and looking like trash in the NBA. |
iirc, Denzel Valentine, who is the closest comp i've been able to think of for JHS (big guard with decent playmaking but almost zero athleticism) also tore it up in the SPL.
Kevin Knox had one of the greatest SPLs ever. People were calling him the steal of the draft.
Remember Carsen Edwards? Bill Simmons thought they had stolen a lottery pick. |
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Denny_Russo
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Joined: 27 Jan 2016
Posts: 3027
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2024 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | Don Draper wrote: | | Denny_Russo wrote: | I think what he shows in the SL this year will be a good indicator of what the Lakers do with him. Not that SL is the end-all for everything, but you've got to show something against pro competition. The g-league seems to be a gray area because the dudes that average monster numbers just end up going overseas or stay on the end of the bench. It's more about how he contributes to winning and sets the tempo of games than the raw statistics. That's how guys like Caruso and Nwaba were found. They were fierce defenders.
Either way, I'll be rooting for him. There has to be a reason they picked him at 17, right? Right? Word has it he was a Rob pick, so I'll always have my doubts until something is shown. |
Summer league since like 2016 I feel has been pretty good portent of at least someone's ability to be an NBA player. Lonzo and Kuzma killed it and looked like they did in the NBA. Jaquez looked good. There are more too. Gone are the days of guys like Ebanks and Derek Caracter tearing it up and looking like trash in the NBA. |
iirc, Denzel Valentine, who is the closest comp i've been able to think of for JHS (big guard with decent playmaking but almost zero athleticism) also tore it up in the SPL.
Kevin Knox had one of the greatest SPLs ever. People were calling him the steal of the draft.
Remember Carsen Edwards? Bill Simmons thought they had stolen a lottery pick. |
Yeah, I also remember guys like Kris Dunn and Glenn Rice Jr dominating, too. However, I think the competition has steadily improved over the years and that the best talent, more often than not, rises to the top these days. Some of it has to do with the influx of Euro players and skills academies. The young talent is more seasoned than it 6-10 years ago. They know what they need to work on, and some rooks are able to contribute almost immediately (see JJ, Podz, Braun, Lively, etc). Another underrated aspect is the marketing angle of it. Unlike his predecessor, Silver wants to milk the SL and create "rivalries", so national television helps boost the appeal of it and raises the stakes.
I hate the direction the NBA is going in, with respect to the offensive rules, lack of defense, brainless three point shooting, and officiating, but the SL is in great shape IMHO. Always fun extrapolating how young talent will do and what they need to work on. If I'm JHS, I'm looking to make a statement.
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Starting anew. I'm retiring my main. |
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