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AprilRyan
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 173
Location: Manila
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 Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:02 am Post subject: |
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I was disappointed with the loss - but it will help the Lakers continue to be grounded. The write ups about them being back on top were coming out more and more often. In this way, they don't get complacent and they realize they got ways to go before they can be in the same category as the elite teams.
As for the Celtics, maybe they really are the real thing. And they have a great opportunity this year - because they practically have the East in the bag. And the strong teams in the West seem to be faltering. The Suns don't seem dominant. Dallas isn't mentally tough. The Spurs seem creaky. Let's see how things go. |
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Sage_10
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Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 6668
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:09 am Post subject: |
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Pretty disappointing game. I was especially disappointed in Kobe's 1 one 1 play I thought he would have adopted a different strategy. 
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"You Must Be Willing To Give Up That Which Can Be Lost In Order To Gain That Which Cannot Be Lost." - FORTUNE COOKIE |
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AV
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 606
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| Drama mama central....so they lakers got licked by the team that has three perennial all-stars, that also has a pretty well balanced squad, and that MANY have picked to go to the NBA finals, and a lot who have picked them to win...We played sloppy against one of the best teams in the NBA....all teams have off nights this was one for the Lakers. Hopefully they go back and look at what went wrong and learn from that....most importantly they remember that they win by playing team ball, taking the extra shot, playing team D, making the extra pass...all things we didn't do. Kobe, Bynum etc. etc didn't suddenly become the crappiest players in the league....relax people and breathe, this is still one of the youngest teams in the L, it's no surprise that they have boughts of inconsistency, and we all know that Kobe some times steps outside of team ball...some times that works and some times that doesn't, tonight it didn't. The Lakers are still a good team. |
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In the paint
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Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 1371
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:30 am Post subject: Re: CELTICS -at- LAKERS - 12/30 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings |
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| TheJellosJigglin' wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | | The refs were poor at times (in fact, I can only think of one game where they stood out more) |
Understatement of the year.
Notice how the lakers kept getting the game back to 7 or 8 points, but the momentum got killed by a horrible call everytime the lakers tried to make a run.
To add to it, the BS calls got our guys in foul trouble, which caused them to play cautiously and be unaggressive, [EDIT]or just to be taken out of the game completely because of foul trouble![EDIT].
This game was completely controlled by the refs in the celtics favor, and i'm saying this without any laker bias. The officiating was a damn shame, and leads me to believe that Tim Donaghy was not the only crooked ref. Made me ashamed to be a fan of the nba. |
I thought this refs calls were part of the throwback to the 80's when breathing Bird, McCale or Parrish was a foul. They must have thought they were in the Boston Garden or at least they knew it was not the fabulous Forum. |
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JM
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Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 1281
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| hoopschick29 wrote: | | AndrewBynum17 wrote: | | Bynum sucked. He needs to be more agressive and (bleep) take more shots when he gets the ball. He neds to stop worrying about missing a shot. |
I am concerned that Drew's engine seems to be sputtering a little bit. He's picking up the cheap fouls and he doesn't seem to have as much energy these last couple of games. Hopefully he can recharge with these 4 days off. |
definitely. we need to reduce his minutes to 28-30 or so and see if he can maintain. |
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Sleepy
Star Player
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 7359
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:50 am Post subject: Re: CELTICS -at- LAKERS - 12/30 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings |
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| Richcbt wrote: | In this, as you say, the Lakers were surprisingly close with about 3 minutes left in the third quarter. When they got the deficit down to 6, I turned to the guy to my left and said, "Can you believe this? With as badly as we've been outplayed, we're still very much in this game," and it was true.
But within a minute a half three of the worst calls of the night hit us. First, Luke stole the ball right in front of me, and was called for hooking the offensive player. That's a foul that could be called about 90% of the time that a guy jumps around and knocks a pass loose, but is rarely called.
Pierce went to the line as we were out of fouls and made the lead 8.
Then Kobe comes down, gets doubled teamed and Pierce is sliding out on him and clearly impeding his progress and Kobe gets called for a charge. Horrible call. Both teams missed several shots in the next sequence and then, with 1:30 left in the third quarter, Pierce ran completely over Kwame, who was set for the last several steps Pierce took in his direction, and they called the blocking foul on Kwame which was simply outrageous. Pierce got credit for the shot he made and the foul, and now it's an 11 point game, after three bad calls in a minute and a half. |
Seconded - that whole sequence determined the outcome without giving the Lakers a fair chance at winning the game. Yes, the Lakers played horribly, but they kept fighting back until this garbage happened and they just seemed to give up after that. Heck, I would've walked off the court in disgust after that series of horrificly bad calls. |
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jmark
Star Player
Joined: 26 Jan 2002
Posts: 2586
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:42 am Post subject: Re: CELTICS -at- LAKERS - 12/30 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings |
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| Richcbt wrote: | | TheJellosJigglin' wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | | The refs were poor at times (in fact, I can only think of one game where they stood out more) |
Understatement of the year.
Notice how the lakers kept getting the game back to 7 or 8 points, but the momentum got killed by a horrible call everytime the lakers tried to make a run.
To add to it, the BS calls got our guys in foul trouble, which caused them to play cautiously and be unaggressive, [EDIT]or just to be taken out of the game completely because of foul trouble![EDIT].
This game was completely controlled by the refs in the celtics favor, and i'm saying this without any laker bias. The officiating was a damn shame, and leads me to believe that Tim Donaghy was not the only crooked ref. Made me ashamed to be a fan of the nba. |
I was at the game, and I can tell you that the Celtic fans near me were just as distressed about the officiating, at least in the first half.
I am not usually one to pin a game on the refs unless they make some horrible call that literally decides a game with seconds left, and I do not believe in conspiracies and hidden agendas to decide games in favor of one team, BUT...
In this, as you say, the Lakers were surprisingly close with about 3 minutes left in the third quarter. When they got the deficit down to 6, I turned to the guy to my left and said, "Can you believe this? With as badly as we've been outplayed, we're still very much in this game," and it was true.
But within a minute a half three of the worst calls of the night hit us. First, Luke stole the ball right in front of me, and was called for hooking the offensive player. That's a foul that could be called about 90% of the time that a guy jumps around and knocks a pass loose, but is rarely called.
Pierce went to the line as we were out of fouls and made the lead 8.
Then Kobe comes down, gets doubled teamed and Pierce is sliding out on him and clearly impeding his progress and Kobe gets called for a charge. Horrible call. Both teams missed several shots in the next sequence and then, with 1:30 left in the third quarter, Pierce ran completely over Kwame, who was set for the last several steps Pierce took in his direction, and they called the blocking foul on Kwame which was simply outrageous. Pierce got credit for the shot he made and the foul, and now it's an 11 point game, after three bad calls in a minute and a half.
Would we have won without those bad calls? Almost certainly not, but it was a potential turning point in the contest and we could have possibly gotten momentum and, then, who knows?
Number 56, Mark Ayotte, was responsible for most of the bad calls tonight and I've noted in the past that he's just a terrible ref. |
Well said. Anybody else feel like the entire Celtic team seemed to be in the paint on D most of the night and only got 1 D 3 sec. tech? Some of it was our horrible spacing but to beat the C's I think we must pound them inside. AB never was a factor in either game.
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"I appreciate all those who have supported me. Thank you for believing in me. My family and I are going to need your support and prayers now more than ever." Kobe |
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prisma8slg
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Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 4664
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:30 am Post subject: |
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thanks DB. the shorts are the only thing that make this loss bearable.
_________________
"I define success by championships, by winning..." Kobe Bryant
"I've seen it all. Sasha dunked on somebody," Kobe Bryant said. "I'm ready to retire now." |
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Rick12322
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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 19164
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:50 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the recap DB. The Lakers played like they didn't believe in themselves. They played tense, and tried to play outside of their abilities. Look at Boston's Paul Pierce and Ray Allen. They're relaxed, and they play within themselves. Their mental approach was much more confident and in sync.
I think Kobe's been riding on the coat-tails of his prior success too long now. He's not the gamer he used to be, and he really hasn't been for the past two years. sure, he's had big games, but they haven't been occurring in 'Big Games.' We need to reassess his role with the team. We need something/someone new to step up. Just like when Magic got to the playoffs his shooting was often tentative, and Big Game James Worthy stepped up. that's what we need, someone else on this team to step up. |
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anth2000
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 12225
Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:12 am Post subject: |
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What I saw last night was an unprepared Lakers squad. I saw a tense and timid Lakers squad. I saw a team lost out there and too scared to drive the ball to the hoop and settle for the perimeter.
Everyone looked terrible, especially Kobe.
Let's not freak out. The Lakers are a really good team that got beat by one of the couple "elite" teams in the NBA.
Boston IS that good.
Kevin Garnett IS that good and makes THAT kind of impact.
Wish he was a Laker.
No need to panic. It grounded the Lakers mindset for sure.
They should watch this game and learn from it. |
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A Mad Chinaman
Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6159
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:13 am Post subject: |
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Note: When a team misses layups, it usually looks bad
fyi: I agree with most of the other comments that added to the loss such as refs, kobe's shooting percentage, LO not getting to the line, etc. |
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Brand New
Star Player
Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 1342
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| I was very mad after this lost, those short shorts were just horrible and we didn't play good at all, where was Bynum?Why couldn't we make easy shots?Why did we miss so many FT's?Why did we wear those pathetic shorts?Just a very disappointed lost, but whatever its just one game. |
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fogman
Rookie
Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Rick12322 wrote: | | I think Kobe's been riding on the coat-tails of his prior success too long now. He's not the gamer he used to be, and he really hasn't been for the past two years. sure, he's had big games, but they haven't been occurring in 'Big Games.' We need to reassess his role with the team. We need something/someone new to step up. Just like when Magic got to the playoffs his shooting was often tentative, and Big Game James Worthy stepped up. that's what we need, someone else on this team to step up. |
Why the Magic comparison? They're such different players. When have you ever seen Kobe be tentative? As for someone stepping up, that's not a trivial matter. The Bulls have been trying to get someone to step up for the last 4 years and it hasn't happened. James Worthy is a former #1 overall pick who came from a winning tradition at UNC and was practically giftwrapped by the late former Cavs owner Ted Stepien. Worthy found himself on an incredibly talented team that put him in a role that best suited his talents immediately. It takes a little luck to get that set of circumstances together. It will continue to take time - at least the rest of the season - for the current group of Lakers to fully buy in.
The Lakers stayed in the game last night throughout the first half because Kobe, sensing that the young players and the bench weren't doing as well as they did on Friday, tried to carry the load. Even though he wasn't shooting well from the field at least he got to the line a lot. Kobe's problem is that like the last two years, when he does this he gets tunnel vision and it can be a downward spiral from there. DB alluded to the chicken-and-egg situation. It doesn't really matter how it starts. In the end it's the same: players don't trust the offense and themselves within it and revert to bad tendencies. That long, poor stretch bridging the 3rd and 4th was just another of Phil's "swallow the pill" lessons. Phil and the assistants can keep pounding the lesson into the players' skulls in practice, but nothing gets the point across like a slice of embarrassing humble pie. |
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dawglaker
Star Player
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 1890
Location: reppin Garden Grove
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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first off, the teammates need to prove to Kobe they can be consistant enough where Kobe wont need to worry about "taking over" Jordan never had the problem in Chicago. This just doesnt include the offensive end.
secondly Lamar Odom should only be allowed 3 shots that come from 13 ft. and beyond the rest should be drives to the basket or post-ups
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"I didn't mean to walk in the shower with him. Yeah, I walked in the shower. I'm not a homosexual, but Kobe - he had no clothes on." - Ron Artest |
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SirLaker
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Posts: 222
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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Mr. EiGhTy-OnE
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Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 8272
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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what makes the loss worse is that we dont play again until Friday and now have to wait 5 days to get over it.
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"When (Kobe) gets you on life support, he won't give you mouth to mouth. HE PULLS THE PLUG." -stu |
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Dwarf Nebula
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Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 1338
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| DancingBarry wrote: | | AndrewBynum17 wrote: |
I am at a loss of words for how bad he has played. I hope Bynum is not a bust in the making. wow. |
Dude, you are all over the place. |
ROFL. Did you just say 'I hope Bynum is not a bust'? Unbelievable.  |
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All_Star_Laker
Star Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 2672
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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Referees
ME --> 
ME -->
ME --> 
ME --> 
ME -->  <-- Referee
Referee --> 
ME -->  |
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All_Star_Laker
Star Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 2672
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Dwarf Nebula wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | | AndrewBynum17 wrote: |
I am at a loss of words for how bad he has played. I hope Bynum is not a bust in the making. wow. |
Dude, you are all over the place. |
ROFL. Did you just say 'I hope Bynum is not a bust'? Unbelievable. |
judging by his sn, it's probably just an attempt at sarcasm. |
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DancingBarry
Editor-in-Chief
Joined: 07 Sep 2001
Posts: 40207
Location: O.C.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| pmakker wrote: | Referees
ME -->
ME -->
ME -->
ME -->
ME --> <-- Referee
Referee -->
ME --> |
Nicely done. Excellent command of the emoticons. 
Someday I might just break a game down as simple as that. |
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Rick12322
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 19164
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| fogman wrote: | | Rick12322 wrote: | | I think Kobe's been riding on the coat-tails of his prior success too long now. He's not the gamer he used to be, and he really hasn't been for the past two years. sure, he's had big games, but they haven't been occurring in 'Big Games.' We need to reassess his role with the team. We need something/someone new to step up. Just like when Magic got to the playoffs his shooting was often tentative, and Big Game James Worthy stepped up. that's what we need, someone else on this team to step up. |
Why the Magic comparison? They're such different players. When have you ever seen Kobe be tentative? As for someone stepping up, that's not a trivial matter. The Bulls have been trying to get someone to step up for the last 4 years and it hasn't happened. James Worthy is a former #1 overall pick who came from a winning tradition at UNC and was practically giftwrapped by the late former Cavs owner Ted Stepien. Worthy found himself on an incredibly talented team that put him in a role that best suited his talents immediately. It takes a little luck to get that set of circumstances together. It will continue to take time - at least the rest of the season - for the current group of Lakers to fully buy in.
The Lakers stayed in the game last night throughout the first half because Kobe, sensing that the young players and the bench weren't doing as well as they did on Friday, tried to carry the load. Even though he wasn't shooting well from the field at least he got to the line a lot. Kobe's problem is that like the last two years, when he does this he gets tunnel vision and it can be a downward spiral from there. DB alluded to the chicken-and-egg situation. It doesn't really matter how it starts. In the end it's the same: players don't trust the offense and themselves within it and revert to bad tendencies. That long, poor stretch bridging the 3rd and 4th was just another of Phil's "swallow the pill" lessons. Phil and the assistants can keep pounding the lesson into the players' skulls in practice, but nothing gets the point across like a slice of embarrassing humble pie. |
I think it's pretty clear from what I wrote. Magic was a great player but without "Big Game James" he alone was not enough. Neither is Kobe. |
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A Mad Chinaman
Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6159
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| dawglaker wrote: | | first off, the teammates need to prove to Kobe they can be consistant enough where Kobe wont need to worry about "taking over" Jordan never had the problem in Chicago. This just doesnt include the offensive end. secondly Lamar Odom should only be allowed 3 shots that come from 13 ft. and beyond the rest should be drives to the basket or post-ups |
Farmar/Bynum & the Bench Mob have met most of the challenges set before them - they still have (obviously) more daunting challenges ahead of them, but one needs the opportunity and the confidence from leadership (i.e. Kobe, PJ, etc.) - just as Kobe did when he failed at a Utah Jazz playoff game with Shaq providing him support.
Jordan DID have a problem, but he found a way(s) to get them to perform. Many examples that have been well-documented that have resulted in MJ being in the face of many of the players.
LO is a "triple-double" waiting to happen on every game. The problem is that we are often still waiting for that "triple-double" after every game. This is especially frustrating considering his salary makes one to expect more from LO |
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Vadorojo
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Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 1507
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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Painful game to watch, especially so when the referees were employing their whistles. 
At least we can take comfort in the 80's throwbacks () and the thought that we'll have more motivation to improve. |
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Texas_Pete
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12825
Location: Somewhere watching a Laker game
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for your efforts as always DB.
Kobe: just keep trusting your teammates - even if you have to lose a game or two. We don't need you trying to take over every big game. Besides, you are not 100%. That 6-25 FG% was painful to watch. 
This game should be a reality check for this team. The Celtics (gulp) are as good as advertised. I saw them in person at the Sonic game and wasn't impressed (probably because it was the lowly Sonics). They got up for this one. We had no sense of urgency during this game.
One thing I noticed that Boston does that we need to do is put their 2nd option in with the 2nd unit. PP did it in that Sonic game, and he did it in this one. He absolutely abused Durant (and whoever LA threw at him - Luke mostly) while KG and Ray Ray rested. LO should be able to do the same while Kobe rests but it's not in his mentality.
Oh, and the only time I want to see those Daisy Duke shorts again is on ESPN Classic!  |
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Rigged4fun
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Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 756
Location: Northridge, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree with many of the comments about the refs, they seemed to be biased...(now the NBA wouldn't want to reignite an old dynasty would they?) The game against the Celtics reminded me of so many games we lost to them in the "old days". What I'm saying is the Celts used to intimidate us with their toughness and what always seemed to be the refs on their side (Mindy Rudolph to name one...). Until the Lakers developed some mental toughness, did they turn the tables on Boston. Remember we had the highest tandem of scorers (West and Baylor), however it was the acquisition of a strong bigman (Wilt, Kareem, Shaq) that turned things around. In order for the Lakers to assend to the upper eschelons of the NBA is for Bynum to develop that strength and swagger...and you know I'll just bet you we'll revive the dynasty here. |
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