for the same price, I suppose that I would prefer Ariza. He's still got upside going forward and knows the system. Also, I'm confident that Phil could deal with Artest given Phil's past experience with "unique" personalities but how much longer is Phil here?
But the choice may be Ariza at a higher price (esp. if Toronto jumps into the Turkeyglue sweepstakes) versus Artest at the MLE. That makes it a tougher call.
Artest is better equipped to defend guys like Jefferson, Carmelo, Lebron, and Pierce than Ariza. He's also a better 3-point shooter.
Other than a couple, albeit critical steals, Ariza's D is nothing to write home about. But you could say that with Artest, we wouldn't have been put in that position, because he would have forced Carmelo to shoot something like 5-14, 5-18 all day.
Joined: 01 Jul 2001 Posts: 1951 Location: Los Angeles
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:08 pm Post subject:
Artest - better shooter/scorer, defender, rebounder, playmaker, and a better fit for the Triangle because he's a good post player and most 3's can't handle his strength.
Ariza - Their is really nothing Ariza does better than Artest skill wise.
Other than a couple, albeit critical steals, Ariza's D is nothing to write home about.
They helped the Lakers win the NBA championship. If that's nothing that write home about, I don't know what is.
Quote:
But you could say that with Artest, we wouldn't have been put in that position, because he would have forced Carmelo to shoot something like 5-14, 5-18 all day.
We can imagine any scenario we want to fit what we like, but the Lakers got results from Ariza, championship results. All the Bulls, Pacers, Kings and the Rockets got was a head case.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144551 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:20 pm Post subject:
nokio wrote:
Artest - better shooter/scorer, defender, rebounder, playmaker, and a better fit for the Triangle because he's a good post player and most 3's can't handle his strength.
Ariza - Their is really nothing Ariza does better than Artest skill wise.
Artest would be a disaster in the triangle. The guy is a ballhog who thinks he should always be the #1 option, he would destroy ball movement in the triangle. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
The guy is a ballhog who thinks he should always be the #1 option, he would destroy ball movement in the triangle.
I don't get the ballhog comment. When I think of ballhog, I think of Allen Iverson, Monta Ellis, Marbury, etc. Just because he's got the ability to create his own shots and yes, he gets in trouble w/ over dribbling doesn't make him a ball hog. He is a willing passer.
Artest - better shooter/scorer, defender, rebounder, playmaker, and a better fit for the Triangle because he's a good post player and most 3's can't handle his strength.
Ariza - Their is really nothing Ariza does better than Artest skill wise.
Artest would be a disaster in the triangle. The guy is a ballhog who thinks he should always be the #1 option, he would destroy ball movement in the triangle.
Artest can score while posting. He'd be perfect for the high post. As for ball hog or not, players can change their styles of play. Ariza's is a ball hog too. I still remember him jacking up jumper after jumper. However, there's no deny that Artest can give Lakers another layer of offense if the triangle, the pick n' roll stop working.
The guy is a ballhog who thinks he should always be the #1 option, he would destroy ball movement in the triangle.
I don't get the ballhog comment. When I think of ballhog, I think of Allen Iverson, Monta Ellis, Marbury, etc. Just because he's got the ability to create his own shots and yes, he gets in trouble w/ over dribbling doesn't make him a ball hog. He is a willing passer.
Sometimes he's a willing passer, have you watched him play much? He often dribbles, dribbles, and dribbles...Besides his head, the other reason Artest has not arrived where he should have as a player is because he sees his ball handling and shot creating skills as being far above his actual ability.
All the skills that were listed about as being all in favor of Artest, I think one could argue most of those categories in THIS years playoffs. Now given Ariza has is much younger and MUCH less experienced, it is very difficult to say who will have the better skills going forward.
But given the chance, I would definately take Artest. I like Ariza, he does well within his skills, but not same category as Artest. _________________ The journey to 17 begins...
There's only one thing Ariza is better than Artest
Stealing ball
I don't think it's fair to give credit to Ariza's 3 pt ability. Most of those shots are open shot. Double teaming Kobe created those open shots. Artest had and could make those open shots. The guy is proven.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144551 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:39 pm Post subject:
2The4th wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
nokio wrote:
Artest - better shooter/scorer, defender, rebounder, playmaker, and a better fit for the Triangle because he's a good post player and most 3's can't handle his strength.
Ariza - Their is really nothing Ariza does better than Artest skill wise.
Artest would be a disaster in the triangle. The guy is a ballhog who thinks he should always be the #1 option, he would destroy ball movement in the triangle.
Artest can score while posting. He'd be perfect for the high post. As for ball hog or not, players can change their styles of play. Ariza's is a ball hog too. I still remember him jacking up jumper after jumper. However, there's no deny that Artest can give Lakers another layer of offense if the triangle, the pick n' roll stop working.
That's the way to add to your title team, bring in a player and "hope" that he can change the ways he has exhibited so far in his career. For vet min maybe, ala JR Rider. That way if he acts up, he can be gone easily. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
What's sad about this whole thing is that the Lakers could actually have LO, Ariza and Artest at the same time if I'm not mistaken. If the Lakers had an owner like Mark Cuban, this would not be an issue and the Lakers would be more about winning that money.
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