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ocho Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 54293
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:11 am Post subject: Larry Brown Slams Starbury |
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man its getting ugly in new york.
wrote: | "Look, I've been coaching how many years?" said Brown, whose Hall-of-Fame career spans three decades. "I never left a team in worse shape than I got it. Not one. Now think about that. Think about me and think about the guy who's talking," he said, referring to Marbury. "I never left a team in worse shape. Never asked anything of my players any different than I'm doing right now. Think about that. Think about that."
The Times says it was Brown's strongest, angriest, and most honest appraisal of a feud that became a back-page staple in the Big Apple not long after the start of the NBA season.
"So the bottom line is, I want us to rebound, defend, share the ball, play hard. That's all. If you can't do that, if that's not important enough to you, it's not on me. It's not on me. And you owe it to your teammates to do that every single night if you care about the right things. We're 17-45, all right? So we've got to figure out a way to get better." |
_________________ 14-5-3-12 |
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Socks Franchise Player
Joined: 01 Feb 2006 Posts: 10761 Location: Bay Area, CA
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:07 am Post subject: |
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Man, calling out your players is one thing, but straight up calling Marbury a loser is another. I don't see how a public blasting like this is going to help the team or Marbury play better.
Larry is a great coach, but throughout his history he's quick to sidestep any blame and this is no different. Ugly isn't even the word in NY right now...maybe something like complete and utter disaster. |
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TACH Retired Number
Joined: 03 Nov 2005 Posts: 28461 Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:53 am Post subject: |
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Unfortunately,.. he speaks the truth!!! Starbury will not be a Knick after the season...
This was in response to Starbury's comments.... |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58525
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | So the bottom line is, I want us to rebound, defend, share the ball, play hard |
And people think the Knicks or Larry Brown wouldn't deal Channing Frye for Lamar Odom?
Please.
The Knicks need a new PG. They need unselfish players that will buy into Larry Brown's philosiphy.
They need an overhaul. The only player I would keep on that roster are Eddy Curry and Steve Francis. The rest of the roster, I would deal for role players that actually accept their roles. |
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NestT Star Player
Joined: 05 Jul 2002 Posts: 4327 Location: The Shining City on a Hill
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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Socks wrote: | Man, calling out your players is one thing, but straight up calling Marbury a loser is another. . |
Where did he do that? |
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Socks Franchise Player
Joined: 01 Feb 2006 Posts: 10761 Location: Bay Area, CA
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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NestT wrote: | Socks wrote: | Man, calling out your players is one thing, but straight up calling Marbury a loser is another. . |
Where did he do that? |
Right here:
Quote: | "Look, I've been coaching how many years?" said Brown, whose Hall-of-Fame career spans three decades. "I never left a team in worse shape than I got it. Not one. Now think about that. Think about me and think about the guy who's talking," he said, referring to Marbury. "I never left a team in worse shape. Never asked anything of my players any different than I'm doing right now. Think about that. Think about that."
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Every team Marbury has left has done better without him. When he says "think about the guy who's talking", he's referring to Marbury's comments criticizing him. So basically, he's arguing that his philosophy is right because his record indicates that he improves teams, while Marbury's line of thinking is wrong because Marbury makes teams worse.
Can't argue with Brown's line of thinking - he's right. I just don't think it helped the situation any to pour more fuel on what was already a raging fire. Someone needs to step up and be the bigger man over there and try to make things work until the season ends and Marbury can be dealt. His trade value is already low enough without his own coach telling the world his PG is a moron. |
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angrypuppy Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 32772
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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There's an article on BSPN Insider:
Quote: | Marbury: 'It's personal now'
The Larry Brown vs. Stephon Marbury feud escalated this morning at the Knicks' shootaround, the hate-hate relationship sinking to new depths of discord. Chris Sheridan has the blow-by-blow report. |
Is this new? BSPN recycles newspaper articles, and stamps the story as its own. |
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Socks Franchise Player
Joined: 01 Feb 2006 Posts: 10761 Location: Bay Area, CA
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, it's new enough. Marbury made his comments yesterday I think and I believe Brown's responses were today. |
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Socks Franchise Player
Joined: 01 Feb 2006 Posts: 10761 Location: Bay Area, CA
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Holy smokes, the Sheridan Blog is crazy! I didn't see this part, check it out:
Quote: | Marbury: 'It's personal now'
posted: Wednesday, March 15, 2006
filed under: NBA, New York Knicks, Stephon Marbury
The Larry Brown vs. Stephon Marbury feud escalated this morning at the Knicks' shootaround, the hate-hate relationship sinking to new depths of discord.
First, Marbury stood before reporters, called Brown insecure and vowed he'd keep striking back at Brown whenever he feels he's been publicly criticized.
Next, Brown castigated Marbury for having a selfish agenda and deflecting blame.
"I think it's personal now," Marbury said. "I don't think it's about basketball anymore. Now it's to the point where he's putting his 30-year career against my 10-year career. You know, coach is a great coach is what everyone says. We're supposed to be better than what we are. Did it happen now? No."
Brown was a portrait of disgust one day after asking people to compare his track record vs. his point guard's. Criticizing Marbury's "agenda," Brown also insinuated that Marbury hadn't accepted his share of the criticism for the Knicks having the NBA's worst record despite its highest payroll.
"So, you're the best guard in the league and the team is 17-45, yeah, it's the coach's fault," Brown said.
This was the fifth straight day of the two adversaries bickering at each other, and Wednesday's developments left the rest of the team staring in disbelief as first Marbury, then Brown, went through the ritual of airing their gripes through the team's beat writers.
"You've got to wonder whether both these guys own newspaper stocks," quipped Howard Beck of the Times.
A few more quotes from Marbury's diatribe and Brown's retort:
From Marbury:
"If coach is comparing his career to my career, he's got like a 20-year edge on me. To me that sounds like a lot of insecurity is going on. … He's speaking on things he's done, and I think people in New York want to know what he's going to do, you know, as far as us winning. What happened in the past is the past. I think New Yorkers can relate [to] what's going to happen now. We live more in the present."
On whether Brown had crossed the line by comparing his own track record of improving the teams he has coached to Marbury's history of failing to make better any of the teams he's been traded to:
"He always crosses the line. That's not nothing new. Certain coaches deal with certain things certain ways, and he handles his things through the media as opposed to sitting down and talking with people. And still, if you sit down and you talk with coach, it's liable to get back to everybody, so you're really not safe there either."
On whether he wants to play for Brown:
"I want to play basketball in New York. I love New York, and I believe New York loves me. … I'm at the point where I just want to win, and I want to play in New York more than anything in this world. But if that's not happening next year, I can't cry about it. I've been in this situation before and I understand, I know it's a business."
On whether Isiah Thomas should step in and try to resolve the feud:
"We don't have to have another grown man come and mediate two grown men. What's that about? He's the boss, but if there's a problem, come to me like a man. I don't have no problem. I'm comfortable with myself. I know who I am as a person."
On their future:
"I can coexist. I can't speak for another person. I'm cool. I'm fine. I can deal with it. But I'm no longer going to allow him to say things about me and I'm not going to say anything back. I mean that's just not going to happen. That's not going to happen. I allowed him to drag me the first three or four months in the paper, and I didn't say one word. I just sat back and just took it. But I'm not taking it no more. If something's going to be said, I'm going to defend myself. My mother taught me that: Somebody hits you, you hit them back."
On what the solution might be:
"I don't know. If I was a chemistry teacher, I'd probably have an answer, but I don't. … I don't need no new start. My start is right here in New York unless they say otherwise."
A few snippets from Brown:
Upon being informed that Marbury planned to continue answering perceived slights through the media:
"That's great, that's great. Again, I'm the coach of a basketball team, and the only thing that matters to me is that we play the right way, share the ball, try to guard and care about our teammates. I'm going to focus on that. I'm not going to focus on things that have nothing to do with being a good teammate. I've been coaching the same way my whole life. Things that really matter, I've said over and over and over again. It's amazing to me. I've never had a problem getting people to understand that before, and it's mind boggling to me after we win two games that it becomes an issue. So I want to focus on guys that are trying to do the right things to help our team win, and that's what I'm going to do."
Ever deal with anything like this before?
"Never. Never."
Does it raise doubts in Brown's mind about whether he and Marbury are a good pairing going forward?
"Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. No coach, no coach, would enjoy this situation. Because every coach that coaches this sport, it's about team. And when you hear players talk about team, you get real excited. When you don't hear players talk about team, it's not a lot of fun."
Would he walk away in frustration?
"No, no. No, no."
Is the best solution to trade Marbury over the summer?
"I'm not even thinking about that. I'm just trying to coach our team and make guys better. I want guys that care about the team that want to win games that understand what our problems are and try to correct them."
Is Marbury one of those guys?
"Well, we'll see. We're 17-45, and I'll take full responsibility for us winning 17 games and losing 45. So, you're the best guard in the league and the team is 17-45, yeah, it's the coach's fault.
"I don't know why you play a team sport and not be concerned about making your teammates better and helping your team win games. That's the only thing that really matters, and if you're the best player, surely you're going to have some effect on the game's outcome. And I've said this from Day 1, I've never given anybody in my career more free rein. In my career. And I went to the conference finals with Haywoode Workman as the point guard. Eric Snow was the fourth-string point guard in Seattle, and we went to the NBA Finals [with Snow in Philadelphia].
"I've been around guys, and every good team, it's all about team, and that's what we're going to try and get. You want to come and join that? That's fine. That's the only message that needs to be sent. You want to be part of the team and make your teammates better, you want to care about the right things and playing the right way, this is a pretty good place to be. You don't have that on your agenda, then this is probably a bad place to be."
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cmonkee Star Player
Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 5301 Location: Redondo Beach
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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the 'ol Kobe-Phil feuds don't seem so bad anymore. hey, at least we were winning! |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58525
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah this is really bad.
Wow. Makes Kobe and Phil look like nothing.
I think the difference is that Kobe actually maxamized himself in the Triangle - only he at times prefered to not use the Triangle and hated his role with Shaq in the Triangle. However when push came to shove, Bryant ran the Triangle and fed Shaq the ball.
Marbury just can not be Chauncey Billups. He is purely an on-ball dominant type. That is who he is.
Brown wants him to be a guy that brings the ball up and looks for his 1st, 2nd and 3rd option before himself. Noway Marbury can play like that.
:roll: @ people that wanted Starbury a Laker next to Kobe |
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eniq 0x00 Star Player
Joined: 06 Aug 2005 Posts: 2724
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: |
:roll: @ people that wanted Starbury a Laker next to Kobe |
Or even Francis for that matter. _________________ "In essence, the trade was: Shaq, Rick Fox and Gary Payton for Odom, Kwame, Mihm, Profit, 2nd round picks, a 1st round pick and 30 million in luxury tax saviings." - LakerJam
^^ Farmar
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CheetahMan Starting Rotation
Joined: 07 Aug 2005 Posts: 886 Location: LaaLaa Nation
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone else want popcorn or beer? _________________ I want to say something about Dwayne Wade, but I fear I may get called for a foul.
-- Warren, Ludington, Mich. |
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Socks Franchise Player
Joined: 01 Feb 2006 Posts: 10761 Location: Bay Area, CA
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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I don't like Marbury much, though I can respect his talent. But man, I'm losing respect for Brown by the day. He's the coach, he's gotta be above this (bleep) instead of escalating it every day.
And it seems like he doesn't even talk to his players. I don't know if it's just the way I'm reading it, but the impression I keep getting is that he almost feels above talking to them. Sure, he's the coach he can do what he wants, but c'mon, how much work is it to tell a guy before the game, "Hey, I'm putting you on the inactive list tonight because your defense has been poor.".
Your team is 17-45 Larry, everyone knows you suck, you're not making the situation better by taking shots at your players in the media. Same can be said of Marbury, but IMO the coach has the ultimate responsibility here, plus you expect him to be more mature.
You guys are right, Phil/Kobe are featherweights compared to this. |
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DaggerInTheHeart Star Player
Joined: 06 Feb 2006 Posts: 1459 Location: Sunshine State
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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Socks when you're team is 17-45 what is there to talk about? The Knicks were lousy since the beginning of the season.
i'd be shocked if Brown is with the Knicks for 2 years coaching the Knicks can cause health problems. |
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Socks Franchise Player
Joined: 01 Feb 2006 Posts: 10761 Location: Bay Area, CA
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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DaggerInTheHeart wrote: | Socks when you're team is 17-45 what is there to talk about? The Knicks were lousy since the beginning of the season.
i'd be shocked if Brown is with the Knicks for 2 years coaching the Knicks can cause health problems. |
True enough Dagger, I guess drama is bound to come up.
Trying to put myself in the coach's position though, shutting up and not saying anything at all would seriously would seem like a much better option then continuing to blast away at each other in public. |
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DaggerInTheHeart Star Player
Joined: 06 Feb 2006 Posts: 1459 Location: Sunshine State
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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Socks wrote: | True enough Dagger, I guess drama is bound to come up.
Trying to put myself in the coach's position though, shutting up and not saying anything at all would seriously would seem like a much better option then continuing to blast away at each other in public. |
Probably Brown wants to take these arguements in public i think Brown wants Marbury gone and he's doing anything in his power to force Isiah to move him. |
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Socks Franchise Player
Joined: 01 Feb 2006 Posts: 10761 Location: Bay Area, CA
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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DaggerInTheHeart wrote: | Socks wrote: | True enough Dagger, I guess drama is bound to come up.
Trying to put myself in the coach's position though, shutting up and not saying anything at all would seriously would seem like a much better option then continuing to blast away at each other in public. |
Probably Brown wants to take these arguements in public i think Brown wants Marbury gone and he's doing anything in his power to force Isiah to move him. |
Yup, you're probably right on the mark there and that's probably exactly what will happen.
What's interesting is when I cruised some Knick message boards it seemed like there were more fans taking marbury's side and lots of use of the term "Larry Clown". I think you're right though, Larry will be there for a few years and Marbury is out the window this summer. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144696 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | Quote: | So the bottom line is, I want us to rebound, defend, share the ball, play hard |
And people think the Knicks or Larry Brown wouldn't deal Channing Frye for Lamar Odom?
Please.
The Knicks need a new PG. They need unselfish players that will buy into Larry Brown's philosiphy.
They need an overhaul. The only player I would keep on that roster are Eddy Curry and Steve Francis. The rest of the roster, I would deal for role players that actually accept their roles. |
Worse than that, some people wanted to trade Odom for Marbury. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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ocho Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 54293
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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sounds like marbury will be traded the first opportunity NY gets. the only question is...who would want this guy? his contract his huge and he's a huge pain in the ass. he's also a shoot first point guard who doesn't involve his teammates.
the only guy i know who shops around for guys like that is....isaiah thomas! _________________ 14-5-3-12 |
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Money$hot! Star Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2002 Posts: 5911
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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Brown is right and he's smart.
A player (especially the ball dominant one) HAS to buy into the offensive philosophy of the Coach. There's no other way. If Brown tried to get Marbury to play his way for half a season and Marbury won't budge then Brown needs to do everything in his power to get Stephon out of there. This is for the city, the team, and the fans. The message to Marbury, get in line or get out.
...btw if Marbury thinks he can play anyway he wants to he needs to understand there's no room for him on any NY squad right now. Stephon is going to mess around and get himself traded to hell (i.e. Toronto). Brown is going to win this one. |
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NestT Star Player
Joined: 05 Jul 2002 Posts: 4327 Location: The Shining City on a Hill
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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Socks wrote: | NestT wrote: | Socks wrote: | Man, calling out your players is one thing, but straight up calling Marbury a loser is another. . |
Where did he do that? |
Right here:
Quote: | "Look, I've been coaching how many years?" said Brown, whose Hall-of-Fame career spans three decades. "I never left a team in worse shape than I got it. Not one. Now think about that. Think about me and think about the guy who's talking," he said, referring to Marbury. "I never left a team in worse shape. Never asked anything of my players any different than I'm doing right now. Think about that. Think about that."
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Every team Marbury has left has done better without him. When he says "think about the guy who's talking", he's referring to Marbury's comments criticizing him. So basically, he's arguing that his philosophy is right because his record indicates that he improves teams, while Marbury's line of thinking is wrong because Marbury makes teams worse.
Can't argue with Brown's line of thinking - he's right. I just don't think it helped the situation any to pour more fuel on what was already a raging fire. Someone needs to step up and be the bigger man over there and try to make things work until the season ends and Marbury can be dealt. His trade value is already low enough without his own coach telling the world his PG is a moron. |
Now you are reading into what Brown is saying. It may very well be a fair reading of Browns words and intentions.
But that IS NOT straight up calling him a loser. |
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Freakout Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 11796 Location: WV
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I'm insane but I'd love to bring in Stephon only to watch Phil turn him into a solid player so Phil could rub it in Larry's face. I'm sorry but Larry Brown is overrated and the league is seeing that now. Play the right way my ass. |
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hoopschick29 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posts: 12898 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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No one's gonna trade for Marbury. The only person who would take on that nuclear contract is Isiah Thomas. |
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SWISHUPONASTAR Starting Rotation
Joined: 21 Aug 2005 Posts: 166
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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