But it's unfair to hold that against Wiggins. George was able to max his potential should not be a knock against Wiggins as a prospect. If anything, it could help it since he had similar weaknesses George did. Watching George now, it don't think hes an elite ball handler or shot creator yet he gets it done defensively, and is smart with the ball. This is his best season yet, but he still puts up some duds offensively. Past 5 games he shot over 40% once. He's still a franchise player because he is an elite two way player, and I think you can get that with Wiggins.
It's a knock against Wiggins when he's clearly showing better offensive talent out of HS than Paul George.
I see it as it as it would be easier to develop him. I think Vogel and Shaw had to get some credit for helping George and Stephenson become what they are today. George was raw as they come and now he's a franchise player? Stephenson was wild and out of control and now he's a triple double threat night in and night out? Just imagine if George had a more refined offensive game going in as a Pacer. I think that could be Wiggins ceiling.
If Wiggins was complacent and lazy I would have concerns but he competes hard defensively. He might lack a motor, but it could be he is more raw than most people expected and needs some coaching. I wouldn't take him over Embiid, but over Parker easily.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:10 am Post subject:
TheElectronica wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
But it's unfair to hold that against Wiggins. George was able to max his potential should not be a knock against Wiggins as a prospect. If anything, it could help it since he had similar weaknesses George did. Watching George now, it don't think hes an elite ball handler or shot creator yet he gets it done defensively, and is smart with the ball. This is his best season yet, but he still puts up some duds offensively. Past 5 games he shot over 40% once. He's still a franchise player because he is an elite two way player, and I think you can get that with Wiggins.
It's a knock against Wiggins when he's clearly showing better offensive talent out of HS than Paul George.
I see it as it as it would be easier to develop him. I think Vogel and Shaw had to get some credit for helping George and Stephenson become what they are today. George was raw as they come and now he's a franchise player? Stephenson was wild and out of control and now he's a triple double threat night in and night out? Just imagine if George had a more refined offensive game going in as a Pacer. I think that could be Wiggins ceiling.
If Wiggins was complacent and lazy I would have concerns but he competes hard defensively. He might lack a motor, but it could be he is more raw than most people expected and needs some coaching. I wouldn't take him over Embiid, but over Parker easily.
I'm not knocking that they didn't work hard. They did. But George isn't as raw as you think. He had a more complete skill set than Gerald Wallace. He just refined all of those skills two-fold and the rest is history.
Larry Bird gave Stephenson a stable environment to flourish. The talent was always there. The background was questionable.
But how is this any different from developing Embiid with a post game, Randle with a midrange jumpshot, Exum with strength, etc?
If a team drafts Wiggins, and the fans are expecting immediate offensive impact, they're going to be disappointed. I just want to see fire out of the kid because I know the talent is there. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
George was an athlete who had the basis offensively to develop into a franchise player. It isn't out of the question for Wiggins to either, especially since he is more advance than George. Yes I would like to see more aggressiveness offensively as well but given how he defends I don't question his fire.
It is half a season in for his freshman year. Hard to pinpoint if it is just a mental thing holding him back or coaching or lack of skill or all three. Just because he is a bit disappointing does not make him not a franchise player type of talent. At the end of the year if he still looks weak then maybe.
I think Embiid will be really good, and I realize he is fairly new to the game, but I don't think he will be Hakeem the Dream good (who I consider the second best center of all time behind Cap). Embiid moves well for a big man for sure, but compared to all players as a whole, it is still a bit herky jerky. Dream's moves were so fluid, he looked smoother than guards at times. Embiid may be able to develop Ewing like smoothness, which would make him a beast, but don't see Dream level performance.
If by some miracle the Lakers can draft him though, I'd be ecstatic.
Can someone post some youtube clips of Embid doing anything on offense beside dunks and layups? Anything more than 2-3 feet from the rim? Any clips of back to the basket, post moves pull up jumper? Or straight pull ups from outside the key? Thanxs. If he is being compared to Duncan/Olajuwon (NBADRAFT.net), there must be evidence of some real post moves besides dunks.
You're comparing prime Hakeem to freshman Embiid. How is that even close to fair?
Freshman Hakeem was scoring 8.3ppg at Houston and most certainly not doing a variety of post moves, pull ups, or whatever other ridiculous expectations of Embiid. If someone wants to see tape of him, here's the DX video that was made earlier in the year.
Can someone post some youtube clips of Embid doing anything on offense beside dunks and layups? Anything more than 2-3 feet from the rim? Any clips of back to the basket, post moves pull up jumper? Or straight pull ups from outside the key? Thanxs. If he is being compared to Duncan/Olajuwon (NBADRAFT.net), there must be evidence of some real post moves besides dunks.
(:34, :53, 1:00, 1:20, 1:31, 1:55-2:15)
To be fair, Hakeem didn't have the arsenal of moves he had later in the NBA, in college. There's a reason they called his team "Psi Slamma Jamma". He played above the rim mostly.
I'm convinced Embiid is the #1 pick at this point, with Wiggins being #2. He can immediately help a franchise.
Can someone post some youtube clips of Embid doing anything on offense beside dunks and layups? Anything more than 2-3 feet from the rim? Any clips of back to the basket, post moves pull up jumper? Or straight pull ups from outside the key? Thanxs. If he is being compared to Duncan/Olajuwon (NBADRAFT.net), there must be evidence of some real post moves besides dunks.
(:34, :53, 1:00, 1:20, 1:31, 1:55-2:15)
To be fair, Hakeem didn't have the arsenal of moves he had later in the NBA, in college. There's a reason they called his team "Psi Slamma Jamma". He played above the rim mostly.
I'm convinced Embiid is the #1 pick at this point, with Wiggins being #2. He can immediately help a franchise.
Thanxs. I see that he made 2 3pters. And a few midrange shots, plus some sweeping hook shots in the lane. Didn't see any back to the basket post moves, for a face up jumper. He reminds me more of Dwight. I don't see Duncan's skills at all.
NBADRAFT.net
NBA Comparison: Tim Duncan/Akeem Olajuwon
Joined: 05 Jul 2001 Posts: 4356 Location: Oxnard, CA - The Nard
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:31 pm Post subject:
Embiid moves closer to Tim Duncan than Olajuwon, a bit stiffer and mechanical but has way more hops. I think if you have the first pick you draft Wiggins because he's a can't miss prospect but Embiid has the building block potential, tough one. I somehow think the Lakers will end up with Randle as their pick, call it a hunch.
Embiid moves closer to Tim Duncan than Olajuwon, a bit stiffer and mechanical but has way more hops. I think if you have the first pick you draft Wiggins because he's a can't miss prospect but Embiid has the building block potential, tough one. I somehow think the Lakers will end up with Randle as their pick, call it a hunch.
Gotta see some real upside in that to be compared to Duncan (far as evidence in his game now, not just hypothetical projections). As for stiffness, don't see that either.
I would take Embiid every time. Earl Monroe is going to get a huge offer in FA. That should tell you how hard it is to get a top big man. I don't see Wiggins as a significantly better prospect (aka a Durant or a Jordan over Oden and Bowie). That said we'll have to wait for the tournament to determine that.
I'd be very happy with Wiggins, Embiid, or Parker. Even Randle/Exum wouldn't be that bad.
Embiid looks like a stud center in a league that has few quality ones in it. If he checks out as healthy come draft time, I don't see how you can draft another player.
All embiid needs is a better base, and everything else will come together with experience. Also, at the moment I think he's pretty much making up moves as he goes because other than a baby hook he's not repeating moves. That's the most impressive part about him as a prospect, he's showing a knack for beating defenders with a mix of creativity and athleticism that I've only seen in guards(Kobe?)
Imagine for instance embiid practicing that dream shake he demonstrated he can do in his highlight film thousands of times. Now, imagine him building counters to that move and practicing those moves thousands of times. That's what he should establish in the nba under a good coach; similar to how Bynum established his game under cap. However, under mike d'antoni I imagine imbiid developing a face up game in order to be utilized in the pick n roll, pick n pop system. That said,he will kneed to practice shooting the 15 foote, and it would be interesting to see him practice that euro-step he demonstrated as well. That could be very unique for a big to have in his arsenal coming off of a pick.
In summary, the Hakeem/Duncan comparison is valid considering both players can be effective in the post, and in a pick situation. It is also true that Both players can effect the game on both sides of the ball, further illustrating their versatility. The only concerns that I have with embiid have less to do with him as a person or player, and more to do with the team that drafts him and fluke injuries. In my opinion, there should be no player drafter before embiid because even if he never develops his floor is an nba starter/defensive anchor.
Remember how Bynum went at Shaquille his rookie year? I can picture embiid taking it to Howard in front of a sold out staples center crowd. Howard's ego would be crushed!!! this is our guy...if exum is serious about being a laker he should withdraw from the draft and come out next year.
Remember how Bynum went at Shaquille his rookie year? I can picture embiid taking it to Howard in front of a sold out staples center crowd. Howard's ego would be crushed!!! this is our guy...if exum is serious about being a laker he should withdraw from the draft and come out next year.
Can someone post some youtube clips of Embid doing anything on offense beside dunks and layups? Anything more than 2-3 feet from the rim? Any clips of back to the basket, post moves pull up jumper? Or straight pull ups from outside the key? Thanxs. If he is being compared to Duncan/Olajuwon (NBADRAFT.net), there must be evidence of some real post moves besides dunks.
i see you're one of those types that thought shaq didt have post moves because "all he did was dunk"
you dont need a jumpshot to have post moves. you dont need to face up to have back 2 the basket moves.
you need footwork and know how. embiid has setup his dunks with footwork, same as shaq in his day. but just because you see guys dunking a lot and being very close to the basket(where you want your big to be). some think oh he cant do anything. thats an inaccurate depiction of embids game _________________ LAL4K3RS wrote: He(Kobe) is the white haired kung fu master that you realize is older than dirt but can still kick your arse when in a sitting position drinking a nice herbal tea.
All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page Previous1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
Page 6 of 6
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum